[Chrisjohn1990]

Hey all, this is my first thread, so don't be too harsh with me haha!

So here's my question, many have speculated that Rim was waiting on Apples pricing for the Ipad 2 since it is the market leader and has whether we like it or not set the "benchmark" at least when it comes to pricing. So far other tablets have all failed to get to that 499 mark.

What it made me think about is, Microsoft and the First Xbox, they were late to the console game, and most people were skeptical about a microsoft game console. They put some solid hardware in the machine (back in the day) and sold the systems at a loss (i believe I read that) but made up with it in games and most importantly were able to break into the market, Now Xbox is a huge name in the gaming scene!

Do you think RIM would be able to do the same with the Playbook? to potentially sell it at a lower price, maybe not at a loss but with a low profit margin, in order to secure a strong position in the market, especially in the U.S. (I live in Canada and from what i see around my campus, at least half of the studetns all have blackberries, just my observation but i guess we're pretty patriotic haha)

Many people are saying how RIM is bleeding market share and that may be true in the US, but they are growing a lot overseas and are still making tons of money, so it makes sense to me that they would use that capital to aid them in regaining market share in the States.

What do you all think?

Cheers

[gots2beme]

I believe RIM will need to price the playbook in line with the recently reduced pricing of the original ipad 1 as noted below.

iPad 16g WiFi Only: $399
iPad 32g WiFi Only: $499
iPad 64g WiFi Only: $599
iPad 16g WiFi + 3G: $529
iPad 32g WiFi + 3G: $629
iPad 64g WiFi + 3G: $729

If they can release the playbook in this price range, I'll purchase a 16g wifi version and be satisfied.

Original iPads now on sale | TiPb

[1812dave]

What I think is that apple "strong arms" suppliers into providing Apple with huge quantities of parts at super-competitive prices, and even though Apple prices their devices PRETTY DARN high, MOST of the time, the iPad isn't priced all that high. I think margins on non iPad tablets are going to go beyond "down to the bone" and will be more like nonexistant. Think about the PS3 as an example. Now, granted they make SOME money off of games, they have lost what? billions? in 2010, they lost $18 on every console sold. Granted, RIM doesn't have Sony's deep pockets, but unless they want to stub their toes badly, coming out of the gate, they have GOT to (absolutely IMPERATIVELY) got to price the PB super competitively. I say that because the PB COULD be the "gateway drug" to future waves of BB-toting masses rocking QNX fueled "super" BB's. If the PB bombs (for ANY reason, be it technical glitches, a dearth of popular apps, or god's will), then QNX phones are going to be relegated to just the pockets of BB loyalists. The PB has the potential to be the vanguard device showcasing QNX's capabilities. If non-BB consumers don't give it a try, I think RIM might be in quite a predicament.

[Kerms]

Ouch I didn't know they dropped the pricing on the 1st Gens

I don't see RIM going with that pricing though

[drjay868]

I believe RIM will need to price the playbook in line with the recently reduced pricing of the original ipad 1 as noted below.

iPad 16g WiFi Only: $399
iPad 32g WiFi Only: $499
iPad 64g WiFi Only: $599
iPad 16g WiFi + 3G: $529
iPad 32g WiFi + 3G: $629
iPad 64g WiFi + 3G: $729

If they can release the playbook in this price range, I'll purchase a 16g wifi version and be satisfied.

Original iPads now on sale | TiPb

If they're in this price range for the WiFi only version, there's no doubt that I'd get a 64GB.

[len_sole]

Perhaps they can take a strategy of price tiering differently? While keeping the lowest price at $499.

16GB - $499
32GB - $549
64GB - $649

That could attract consumers to buying the 32GB/64GB model since it would seem like a "better" deal. This way they could perhaps maintain profit margin better? This may make the 16GB seem less desireable, but some users and corporate would still go for the 16GB for sure as they don't require the extra capacity.

[lnichols]

What I think is that apple "strong arms" suppliers into providing Apple with huge quantities of parts at super-competitive prices, and even though Apple prices their devices PRETTY DARN high, MOST of the time, the iPad isn't priced all that high.

Apple buys strategic parts, like flash memory that can be used in all the iDevices, with large amounts of cash, and in turn gets great pricing for them. When you have $60 billion cash on hand you can buy a lot more for less than someone who has to work a credit based deal with a supplier because with cash deals there is zero risk to the supplier. RIM simply doesn't have that kind of purchasing power.

[1812dave]

If they're in this price range for the WiFi only version, there's no doubt that I'd get a 64GB.

curious, why do you want such a large amount of storage? I've got a 32GB and a 16GB touch and the 32 is barely half full. tons of music and a handful of feature length movies on them. I'd rather stream movies than waste my time transferring movies to my touch. Besides, ripping a movie takes over an hour on my PC.

[Kerms]

Apple buys strategic parts, like flash memory that can be used in all the iDevices, with large amounts of cash, and in turn gets great pricing for them. When you have $60 billion cash on hand you can buy a lot more for less than someone who has to work a credit based deal with a supplier because with cash deals there is zero risk to the supplier. RIM simply doesn't have that kind of purchasing power.

This post right here nails it. Apple didn't strong arm anyone. When you're willing to drop cash money, not credit or terms of payment. You have a lot more bargaining room.

[1812dave]

This post right here nails it. Apple didn't strong arm anyone. When you're willing to drop cash money, not credit or terms of payment. You have a lot more bargaining room.

"more bargaining room" is my idea of "strong arming" when it comes to negotiations with suppliers. Because of precisely what you mentioned (deep pockets), Apple can secure huge quantities of supplies, which hamstrings it's competitors who need to secure deals on the same components. They can put competitors behind the eight ball as much by driving hard bargains with suppliers, as they can with their designs and marketing prowess. (make no mistake--I'm no Apple lover --- just stating facts about Apple)

[greggebhardt]

I am willing to be the iPad 2 will out spec the Play Book and performance is important over a couple hundred bucks. It looks like the iPad 2 will win!

[1812dave]

I am willing to be the iPad 2 will out spec the Play Book and performance is important over a couple hundred bucks. It looks like the iPad 2 will win!

Apple's marketing juggernaut and faithful fanbase will ensure millions of sales. Does that mean Apple's products are the best choice for EVERYONE? Hardly. You can think of it in terms of a game to be won or lost--I buy based on my own needs.

[drjay868]

curious, why do you want such a large amount of storage? I've got a 32GB and a 16GB touch and the 32 is barely half full. tons of music and a handful of feature length movies on them. I'd rather stream movies than waste my time transferring movies to my touch. Besides, ripping a movie takes over an hour on my PC.

Basically, I've been saving up and preparing to pay $599 for a 32GB plus a few accessories. If I can pay that same price for a 64GB, then why not?Also, its better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. I don't think its very often that I would actually need that much, but it does help future-proof the device for me (at least for a while anyways) because I don't plan on buying another tab for at least 3-5 years unless this one breaks.

[Kerms]

"more bargaining room" is my idea of "strong arming" when it comes to negotiations with suppliers. Because of precisely what you mentioned (deep pockets), Apple can secure huge quantities of supplies, which hamstrings it's competitors who need to secure deals on the same components. They can put competitors behind the eight ball as much by driving hard bargains with suppliers, as they can with their designs and marketing prowess. (make no mistake--I'm no Apple lover --- just stating facts about Apple)

Strong arming would be Apple telling the supplier you're going to sell me these $1 components at .25 Cash in hand beats IOU any day. Quiet a few places give discounts for paying with cash instead of terms or credit. That's just business. Walmart, now they've been known to strong arm their suppliers

[anon(728548)]

Apple's marketing juggernaut and faithful fanbase will ensure millions of sales. Does that mean Apple's products are the best choice for EVERYONE? Hardly. You can think of it in terms of a game to be won or lost--I buy based on my own needs.

Bingo. I need:

*A fully portable device
*No program requirements for loading content
*An OS that hasn't looked the same since 2007
*Light
*Good processor and ram combo
*reliable OS


does the ipad have any of that? iOS isn't good. if you have the same OS on a phone, tablet and mp3 player there's a problem. If it's looked the same for 4 years, there's a problem. QNX looks amazing and the technology behind it has been around for 30 years. = reliable

[Kerms]

Apple's marketing juggernaut and faithful fanbase will ensure millions of sales. Does that mean Apple's products are the best choice for EVERYONE? Hardly. You can think of it in terms of a game to be won or lost--I buy based on my own needs.

Amen to Apples marketing.I've said that over and over. They will make you think they're the best. SJ like him or not when he's on that stage he makes you believe their products are the only choice out there. RIM needs to take notes, actually a lot of other company's need to also.

I do think Apple marking Gen1 ipads down to $399 is going to sell a ton which paired with iPad2 sales will probably have Apple winning in units moved this year also.

[Kerms]

Bingo. I need:

*A fully portable device
*No program requirements for loading content
*An OS that hasn't looked the same since 2007
*Light
*Good processor and ram combo
*reliable OS


does the ipad have any of that? iOS isn't good. if you have the same OS on a phone, tablet and mp3 player there's a problem. If it's looked the same for 4 years, there's a problem. QNX looks amazing and the technology behind it has been around for 30 years. = reliable

It's time to update iOS. I'm guessing the will update for the iPhone5 and the iPad but the question is will there be a rumored iPad3 this fall.

QNX has been around a while true but how RIM utilizes it will make the difference. BMW used it in their cars smart center and some people complained how buggy it was. So QNX alone won't be enough. RIM handling of it will be the difference maker.

[1812dave]

Amen to Apples marketing.I've said that over and over. They will make you think they're the best. SJ like him or not when he's on that stage he makes you believe their products are the only choice out there. RIM needs to take notes, actually a lot of other company's need to also.

I do think Apple marking Gen1 ipads down to $399 is going to sell a ton which paired with iPad2 sales will probably have Apple winning in units moved this year also.

Sure, Apple will win in units moved. The general public is in love with Apple. It doesn't hurt sales that Apple products are also status symbols, despite (in MY mind) the absurdity of the entire concept of cell phones conferring status to its owners.

[1812dave]

It's time to update iOS. I'm guessing the will update for the iPhone5 and the iPad but the question is will there be a rumored iPad3 this fall.

QNX has been around a while true but how RIM utilizes it will make the difference. BMW used it in their cars smart center and some people complained how buggy it was. So QNX alone won't be enough. RIM handling of it will be the difference maker.

TAT's involvement is a huge plus. QNX by itself is just part of the solution for RIM, going forward. IMO, BBOS bites the big one.

[anon(728548)]

TAT's involvement is a huge plus. QNX by itself is just part of the solution for RIM, going forward. IMO, BBOS bites the big one.

Whether or not 6.1 is good on the monaco, i'll still be a goat and get it anyway. i mean SOMETHING has to be better than my 5.0 cave man OS

[infamyx]

Think about the PS3 as an example. Now, granted they make SOME money off of games, they have lost what? billions? in 2010, they lost $18 on every console sold. .

This is off topic but every console manufacturer loses money on their console simply due to trying to stuff in as much as possible or the best possible but still keep it at a price consumers are willing to pay. The money they do lose they try to makeup for in royalties/licensing and first party titles. MS and Sony were getting raped in hardware costs initially until 2010 when they both started making a profit off each console sold. The same was true of the previous generation of PS2 and Xbox and even Gamecube. The Wii on the other hand was nowhere near as powerful, the hardware costs were low enough that Nintendo made profit from day. Nintendo could drop a new console this year on par with the 360/PS3 and make money off it.

Back on topic, Apple dumps billions to lock up hardware for years to come something others cannot due. Apple therefore gets the best deals per piece and are guaranteed them for the time of their contract while other manufacturers could get locked out or have to get their stuff from a more expensive manufacturer. Not only that but Apple designs a lot of things in house, so they only need to be sent out to manufacture while a company like RIM or Motorola have to buy their chips from someone else who is also trying to make their profits.

Thats just the hardware side, Apple has its own physical retail stores where they make more profit on their own hardware than wholesale to another chain store like Motorola and RIM have to (losing out on potential profit). Apple has one of the largest online stores that rakes them in a ton of money as well. Resellers or chain stores like Target or Best Buy buy products from Apple cheaper, but not much cheaper. I remember reading that Apple still gets almost 85-95% MSRP from Resellers, which is insane considering most retailers buy at 50% from manufacturer.
That doesnt include the iPhone where resellers pay 100% of the price (something no other phone manufacturer can do).

If the Playbook costs roughly as much as a iPad to make, 260.00 according to iSuppli, and RIM sells it for 499 for a 16GB, that means retailers might be paying somewhere around the 350-400 range. For retailers, thats a big profit but for RIM it aint much, and that leaves them little wiggle room to price it.

[Kerms]

Sure, Apple will win in units moved. The general public is in love with Apple. It doesn't hurt sales that Apple products are also status symbols, despite (in MY mind) the absurdity of the entire concept of cell phones conferring status to its owners.

I think the status symbol for iPads & iPhones is no longer valid. Once they went to Walmart everyone can have one. You don't go to walmart to buy status symbol stuff.

It shows you how Apple works. They knew tablets were coming this year. They put iPads, in walmart, target to get even more B&M visibility instead of only at Best Buy or an Apple store.

TAT's involvement is a huge plus. QNX by itself is just part of the solution for RIM, going forward. IMO, BBOS bites the big one.

TAT is a HUGE plus and that UI is mouth watering. I want to see what RIM is going to do to promote the PB once it's released.

Xoom Super Bowl commerical wasn't that good but they have a few new ones out and I'll be dang if I'm not seeing them more than I see the iPad commericals. They are really putting it in your face.

[Frank Castle]

Has Apple announced that iPad 1 will be an ongoing supported device and it will retail for $399? To me they are clearing inventory as Apple doesn't like to carry too many lines of a popular product. Keeping iPad 1 around could cannibilize iPad 2 which is something I doubt they would do.

That being said RIM told us $399 and when asked about the rumored $499 our rep stated they have not been communicated anything stating that. Considering we have a standing order for hundreds of Playbooks I doubt he would outright lie to our face.

This is Apple's day, they are masters are working their masses into a frenzy over really nothing much. If any of the competitors launched a device with the iPad 2 specs the Apple masses would be screaming FAIL!!. The iPad looks nice but I already know the limitation of iPad 1 and Apple did nothing to improve on them. Great it's a hair lighter and thinner. They talked more about the snap on case and iMovie / Garage Band so even they know the hardware refresh is nothing to boast about. Apple put out a device that matches (for the most part) what will be on the market through 2011.

RIM knows what the bar is now, they have the court to hit this out of the park with bases loaded and wow people. I'm unsure they can pull it off but I'll settle for a double.

[Kerms]

Has Apple announced that iPad 1 will be an ongoing supported device and it will retail for $399? To me they are clearing inventory as Apple doesn't like to carry too many lines of a popular product. Keeping iPad 1 around could cannibilize iPad 2 which is something I doubt they would do.

That being said RIM told us $399 and when asked about the rumored $499 our rep stated they have not been communicated anything stating that. Considering we have a standing order for hundreds of Playbooks I doubt he would outright lie to our face.

This is Apple's day, they are masters are working their masses into a frenzy over really nothing much. If any of the competitors launched a device with the iPad 2 specs the Apple masses would be screaming FAIL!!. The iPad looks nice but I already know the limitation of iPad 1 and Apple did nothing to improve on them. Great it's a hair lighter and thinner. They talked more about the snap on case and iMovie / Garage Band so even they know the hardware refresh is nothing to boast about. Apple put out a device that matches (for the most part) what will be on the market through 2011.

RIM knows what the bar is now, they have the court to hit this out of the park with bases loaded and wow people. I'm unsure they can pull it off but I'll settle for a double.

I don't think they'll continue the iPad1 but what clearing inventory will do at a cheap price will bring outside users into your fold gaining more market share.

As for the $499 there was an Office Depot at that also showed that price. Your company may be getting them for $399 because of the volume yall are buying.

[howarmat]

RIM has never stated 399 anywhere....that rumor was started by a fake site