1. KOOLWATER's Avatar
    Hey Crackberry Team,

    Could you guys answer the following questions for me in regard to PB OS 2.0 and your discussions with RIM employees from this week;

    1. Native GPS: Did you guys speak to anyone about rather or not there will ever be a native gps application? And if it is in the plans, why wasn't it included in 2.0?

    2. Bridged SMS: I understand the NOC limitations concerning BBM, but what about SMS. I remember RIM asked about rather we wanted to include sms bridged capabilities to 2.0 in that survey they did. Did you speak to anyone at CES about this or did anyone mention rather it could be done or not? Or did a rep mention that this was something planned for a later update?

    3. Video Chat: Kevin I saw your video covering video chat, but I didn't hear you ask about potentially or eventually being able to video chat cross platform. The way he explained how video chat works makes me believe that this is unlikely because everything is based off the email address that you use when you registered with BBID correct? I could totally be off on this. Lol Anyways, did any of you happen to ask them about this off camera?

    4. Camera: Were any updates made to the camera? Like Zoom during video recording maybe?

    5. Browser: I know you saw the browser. Were there any UI changes done to the browser or were all the browser upgrades background stuff?

    6. Bridge Enhanced?: None of the videos I saw talked about the "Enhanced bridge" upgrades that RIM touted were included. What are the bridge enhancements exactly? Were these just things like speed enhancements or were there added features of bridge that were not discussed?

    Thanks team,
    01-13-12 10:47 PM
  2. jvictor77's Avatar
    I can't speak as to points 1-5. Regarding point 6 - couldn't one of the 'bridge enhancements' be the actual remote control application?
    KOOLWATER and CanadianThomas like this.
    01-13-12 11:13 PM
  3. rjedge54's Avatar
    Along with presenter mode and "Open on Playbook"

    All of these are things that should wait until it is released. It was never mentioned that any of these interviews were reviews, just demos. They were even labled as such. Since the version being demoed was a beta and we are not told which build, it would be unfair to do a full review. It would end up just being more fuel for the haters and trolls. When the code is gold then it is time to do an in depth review which I am sure Kevin and the team will do as soon as they get their hands on the release version.

    Also, RIM is not likely to want to lay all their cards on the table yet. They may want to save a few last minute surprises. An in depth review of the beta would only have people remembering what was missing based upon a review of an incomplete product. There has already been more than enough of that.
    01-13-12 11:58 PM
  4. KOOLWATER's Avatar
    Along with presenter mode and "Open on Playbook"

    All of these are things that should wait until it is released. It was never mentioned that any of these interviews were reviews, just demos. They were even labled as such. Since the version being demoed was a beta and we are not told which build, it would be unfair to do a full review. It would end up just being more fuel for the haters and trolls. When the code is gold then it is time to do an in depth review which I am sure Kevin and the team will do as soon as they get their hands on the release version.

    Also, RIM is not likely to want to lay all their cards on the table yet. They may want to save a few last minute surprises. An in depth review of the beta would only have people remembering what was missing based upon a review of an incomplete product. There has already been more than enough of that.
    Thanks for the reply but I'd have to disagree,

    Ive watched the videos and I never heard the rim reps or anyone from crackberry describe this as a Beta OS. This is the 2.0 that we will get in Feb. Wether or not they add any small additions is yet to be seen, but this OS that was demoed is not a beta OS. All the features were described in detail and introduced as Playbook OS 2.0. No beta anywhere in the RIM press release or in any Crackberry report
    curvezzz likes this.
    01-14-12 12:53 AM
  5. papped's Avatar
    Based on the supposed release date which is quite soon it can't really be much of a beta...

    If they are going to hit their actual target of Feb it pretty much has to be mostly completed already.

    They would not be introducing brand new features at the last second...

    Regarding #4, if they add a digital zoom it will basically just make the recordings look worse... And it would have to be a digital zoom.
    01-14-12 12:56 AM
  6. rjedge54's Avatar
    Thanks for the reply but I'd have to disagree,

    Ive watched the videos and I never heard the rim reps or anyone from crackberry describe this as a Beta OS. This is the 2.0 that we will get in Feb. Wether or not they add any small additions is yet to be seen, but this OS that was demoed is not a beta OS. All the features were described in detail and introduced as Playbook OS 2.0. No beta anywhere in the RIM press release or in any Crackberry report
    It may not have been specifically stated in the demo videos, but in one of the CES demos I watched one of the new features didnt work as expected and I believe the RIM rep stated something about it being a beta. It was also stated by John from RIM in the Playbook forums in the BB Betazone "because it's not ready yet" in response to someone asking that since it was at CES, why not just release it already
    01-14-12 01:13 AM
  7. rjedge54's Avatar
    Based on the supposed release date which is quite soon it can't really be much of a beta...

    If they are going to hit their actual target of Feb it pretty much has to be mostly completed already.

    They would not be introducing brand new features at the last second...

    That's assuming it would be a recent beta. In all likelihood they would choose the most stable beta even over feature complete. It could have been a beta build from Dec/Nov. They are not likely to appear at a show the size and reputation of CES with a recent bui,d that might throw up some unpleasant surprises or dump brand new untested code on the device just before the show. They likely knew for weeks before and practiced their demos several times well in advance of the show. Having been involved in high tech shows I know first hand that tbe last thing you want is a failed demo due untested updates or changes.
    blue-b likes this.
    01-14-12 01:50 AM
  8. papped's Avatar
    It wouldnt be a recently nightly build or anything like that, but they would have to be feature frozen by now. So any major features are done by now, otherwise they are not releasing in Feb...

    The whole point of freezing your code closer to release is so that it remains more stable.
    KOOLWATER likes this.
    01-14-12 01:57 AM
  9. KOOLWATER's Avatar
    ^^^ Exactly my thoughts...


    I just wish someone would have asked them about these things that SHOULD be in 2.0.
    01-14-12 08:52 AM
  10. rjedge54's Avatar
    It wouldnt be a recently nightly build or anything like that, but they would have to be feature frozen by now. So any major features are done by now, otherwise they are not releasing in Feb...

    The whole point of freezing your code closer to release is so that it remains more stable.
    I wholeheartedly agree that at this point in time it would be feature frozen. I am suggesting some of the newest features may still have bugs sufficient that if you want a flawless demo, they won't show them. Even up up the code being signed off on the programmers will be coding primarily for cleanup and bug fixes.

    I seriously doubt that they had the release version or even a release candidate at CES especially considering what has been stated by John in the BB Beta Zone. I am suggesting that they are just as likely to have demoed an ealier beta with the older of the new features that are not only complete, but tested and relatively bug free enough to demo. Certainly with a beta you are not going to even talk about features to be included in a final realease. Show me any software company that reveals the full feature list of a product before it is released, certainly not Apple as they are the most tight lipped about future releases right up to the day of release.

    All of these feature questions and more have been asked in the beta zone and the responses from RIM staff have either been wait and see or no comment.

    Even when you get the opportunity to use beta products almost all of them (at least that I have ever used) come with the standard disclaimer that some of tbe features in the beta may not see the light of day or be in the released version. I have quite a bit of experience with this over many years particularly dealing with operating system in full time position a s system administrator.
    01-14-12 02:39 PM
  11. KOOLWATER's Avatar
    So in your opinion, Will we see any of these features or not?

    I find it wierd that RIM did not speak about nor was asked about native GPS app integration in PB OS 2.0
    01-14-12 04:02 PM
  12. rjedge54's Avatar
    So in your opinion, Will we see any of these features or not?

    I find it wierd that RIM did not speak about nor was asked about native GPS app integration in PB OS 2.0
    I don't think turn by turn navigation will be available at release. There are hints from other sources. If you watch the QNX/Playbook/Porsche demo ( ) Navigation fron QNX is incorporated but notice the comments that turn by turn is not ready ready, it is in his lab undergoig work and testing. While not Blackberry Playbook specific since it is being developed by QNX, then it could very well show up in a future Playbook OS update.

    In the meantime there is an alternative using Magellan Compass. While it doesn't have turn by turn it is actively being worked on an a version 3 is in the works.

    I also believe that there will be additional goodies in Playbook OS 2 not announced at CES. If RIM are planni g a big release announcement with ads and publicity wouldn't it be wise to hold back some info so as not to appear to some (unfriendly medka and bloggers) as an anti-climax? We bave already seen such postings from a couple of Android trolls regard some of the features announced at CES.

    Two features I am now really looking forward to ar the new bridge so I can use my BB phone for compose messages and such and the predictive text. After composing few longer messages and notes in Evernote recently, I find that text entry on the Playbook can be frustrating, but it is better than on the iPhone and Playbook.
    CanadianThomas likes this.
    01-14-12 04:41 PM
  13. tdexter77's Avatar
    The OS is still being worked on and not finalized which in turn would still make it a "beta". In one of the videos I watched from CES, the playbook was showing there was an OS update ready to download.
    01-14-12 04:50 PM
  14. peter9477's Avatar
    Some people here are making too many assumptions about RIM's development process, and what it is or isn't capable of.

    I think they can produce a quick build that disables just about any feature they want. I'm pretty sure they'd do that for a show, too, especially one where -- if you hadn't noticed -- they don't appear to have allowed any units to be played with extensively by a third party except the three (?) which were nailed to the tabletop in the main booth and watched by hawk-eyed employees.

    I also saw the several cases where things didn't quite work yet, and it's quite clear the one at the show was not a final release build. I'm also fairly certain there are features and especially third-party apps they expect to have integrate into the final one, and tested, but which they either didn't feel were quite stable enough yet, or which they simply chose not to include in the show build.

    We're also expecting an updated beta any day now, which we expect to include some form of spell-checking support, even if just in a form developers can try integrating into their own apps. It wasn't quite ready for the previous beta. When that build is ready, it will certainly not include all the stuff that was seen at the show either...

    They can have numerous parallel builds at any one time, for different audiences, with features disabled or fully tested or included but in a shaky state (for internal testers).
    01-14-12 06:19 PM
  15. rjedge54's Avatar
    Some people here are making too many assumptions about RIM's development process, and what it is or isn't capable of.

    I think they can produce a quick build that disables just about any feature they want. I'm pretty sure they'd do that for a show, too, especially one where -- if you hadn't noticed -- they don't appear to have allowed any units to be played with extensively by a third party except the three (?) which were nailed to the tabletop in the main booth and watched by hawk-eyed employees.
    Yes I noticed that too. Rim staff were very much in control of the devices and what was shown and what wasn't. So the idea of taking thumb drives and cables to test features, or even being able to handle one was out of the question.

    I hadn't thought of parallel builds or special show builds which of course are also likely scenarios. One thing I was sure of was that they were not showing release builds.

    We just need to be patient and wait until after the release then there will be plenty of opportunity to dissect the OS and rant about what is or is not there. At least then it would be reviewed based on a release version and not an incomplete one.
    01-14-12 06:35 PM
  16. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    So in your opinion, Will we see any of these features or not?

    I find it wierd that RIM did not speak about nor was asked about native GPS app integration in PB OS 2.0
    GPS already works in the PB, so in and of itself it isn't a new feature.

    If you're talking navigation, that's a different story. RIM may well be working on an adaptation of their BB Maps app, since they'll want that functionality on the BB10 phones when they start to be rolled out. Otherwise, we'll have to wait on third parties.

    There's no reason for Telenav, say, to do a PB nav app. They may just be waiting for enough potential users to make it worth their while.
    01-14-12 07:24 PM
  17. KOOLWATER's Avatar
    GPS already works in the PB, so in and of itself it isn't a new feature.

    If you're talking navigation, that's a different story. RIM may well be working on an adaptation of their BB Maps app, since they'll want that functionality on the BB10 phones when they start to be rolled out. Otherwise, we'll have to wait on third parties.

    There's no reason for Telenav, say, to do a PB nav app. They may just be waiting for enough potential users to make it worth their while.
    On the GPS issue.... I was wondering if there would be native GPS app integration in Playbook OS 2.0 that will actually make "GPS on playbook" not a laughable statement.

    I mean the playbook is the perfect size to be mounted in a car and used for maps and turn by turn navigation. Also, I'd love to see GPS services integrated as nicely on BB10 devices as google maps is on android.
    01-14-12 10:21 PM
  18. rjedge54's Avatar
    On the GPS issue.... I was wondering if there would be native GPS app integration in Playbook OS 2.0 that will actually make "GPS on playbook" not a laughable statement.

    I mean the playbook is the perfect size to be mounted in a car and used for maps and turn by turn navigation. Also, I'd love to see GPS services integrated as nicely on BB10 devices as google maps is on android.
    Have you had a look at Magelland Compass. It is a very wel done Navigation app that works very well. It is a native app and is actively being worked on with a new version coming out very soon. I would hardly say the Blackberry GPS is laughable, at least it has it and incidently it works very well when tethered for obtaining the map data. Check out the Magellan forum thread in the Playbook apps section on CB to see how it is being used.
    01-15-12 02:03 PM
  19. peter9477's Avatar
    Have you had a look at Magelland Compass. It is a very wel done Navigation app that works very well. It is a native app and is actively being worked on with a new version coming out very soon.
    By the way, Magellan Compass is not "native" in the most common sense of the word. It's an AIR app, written in ActionScript3. In other words, Flash. (Future versions may well change that.)
    jafobabe likes this.
    01-15-12 09:16 PM
  20. rjedge54's Avatar
    By the way, Magellan Compass is not "native" in the most common sense of the word. It's an AIR app, written in ActionScript3. In other words, Flash. (Future versions may well change that.)
    Don't you actually mean in the most technical sense? Most end users won't know the difference between development platforms and therefore would assume native app meant that it was written for that device as opposed to an Android app running in the Android player similar to Java. That is more akin to a VM. I would suggest that a more commonly held idea of native app would be that since the app is written for the Playbook, that makes it native to the BB Playbook.

    I may be mistaken, but I assume that is what the person I was responding to meant. If not then maybe he can correct me and define what he meant by native app.
    01-15-12 10:21 PM
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