Question regarding battery life

I've had my PlayBook since 2011 (October). I'm a power user but I always make sure that I charge my battery fully (not just till 100%) and I let it run down every month or so to around 30-35% and do a long charge cycle (as I have heard this is good for the battery and it resets something or other). I was wondering what I can expect as far as the overall life of my battery and it's ability to keep a charge. How many years do I have left and will BB replace my battery if and when it goes dead? How much would it probably cost?

I've had mine since April 2011 and haven't seen any major battery issues. I don't know what kind of long-term testing BBRY did with the PB, but I would expect 3-4 years of service. I think the BB10 will evolve beyond the hardware sooner than the battery will die out, so the PB will be obsoleted by that shift. BBRY will not replace a battery after the manufacturer's warranty has expired and since it's a fully enclosed unit, self-replacing the battery isn't a walk-in-the-park like the phones.

Actually contrary to popular belief, "conditioning" a battery like that will severly decrease the life of the cell. Conditioning only applied to first Gen rechargables in like 2003, however newer technologies sugguest never draining down the battery to attempt to create a memory, because they don't have them. Soooo....I would stop doing that ASAP if I were you :)

I agree with Jay. Lithium batteries just love to get fully charged constantly. Where possible, I keep my PB. connected to the rapid charger while using it. I never let it drop below 60% if I can help it. After use I put in standby and remove the charger.

Originally Posted by Jay Hopkins

Actually contrary to popular belief, "conditioning" a battery like that will severly decrease the life of the cell. Conditioning only applied to first Gen rechargables in like 2003, however newer technologies sugguest never draining down the battery to attempt to create a memory, because they don't have them. Soooo....I would stop doing that ASAP if I were you :)

Good thing I'm always bad with remembering to do this, and I've only done it a few times since I've owned the PB. Thanks for the tip!

Originally Posted by dangerousfen

I agree with Jay. Lithium batteries just love to get fully charged constantly. Where possible, I keep my PB. connected to the rapid charger while using it. I never let it drop below 60% if I can help it.

so the new batteries won't burn out by leaving them plugged in all the time?

Battery University has more than you want to know about batteries of all types. Their tests show that keeping the LiPo battery at a full 4.2 volts has a stressful effect on it and tends to reduce the useful battery lifetime. Thus leaving on the charger all of the time is not the best practice. Also discharging below 20% does not help but if you let it go until it shuts off be sure to put it on the charger soon

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries

Originally Posted by rav813

so the new batteries won't burn out by leaving them plugged in all the time?

My laptop is always on charge as it stays on my desk pretty much all the time. I have had it for 3 years now but when I do disconnect the charger, it will still run for 3 hours on the battery, which is about the same as when it was new.

Originally Posted by dangerousfen

My laptop is always on charge as it stays on my desk pretty much all the time. I have had it for 3 years now but when I do disconnect the charger, it will still run for 3 hours on the battery, which is about the same as when it was new.

That's one data point for one brand of laptop and one battery assumed to be LiPo. Any more clinical test data? Have to admit I also have an HP laptop now 15 months old which I leave on charge almost always and I am not collecting data on battery life on it. Some laptops now are reported to have a charging setting which extends life by only charging to 3.9 volts or so which is below the stress level but will give considerably reduced operating time off the charger. Haven't checked the BBPB charger performance to see if it tries to keep the charge up to 4.2 volts or lets it relax at least a little.

Originally Posted by jpash549

That's one data point for one brand of laptop and one battery assumed to be LiPo. Any more clinical test data? Have to admit I also have an HP laptop now 15 months old which I leave on charge almost always and I am not collecting data on battery life on it. Some laptops now are reported to have a charging setting which extends life by only charging to 3.9 volts or so which is below the stress level but will give considerably reduced operating time off the charger. Haven't checked the BBPB charger performance to see if it tries to keep the charge up to 4.2 volts or lets it relax at least a little.

Sorry jpash, I don't do clinical test data. All I know is that charging the laptop hasn't done any harm to the battery. Much the same with my wife's laptop (Mine = Acer. Her's = Medion) which is also always on charge. We also leave our 9900's on charge all night and considering they fully charge in about 2 hours, they are still being charged for quite a long time. No ill effects here either.

Most of the articles I have read regarding LiPo batteries uphold my theory.

Originally Posted by dangerousfen

Sorry jpash, I don't do clinical test data. All I know is that charging the laptop hasn't done any harm to the battery. Much the same with my wife's laptop (Mine = Acer. Her's = Medion) which is also always on charge. We also leave our 9900's on charge all night and considering they fully charge in about 2 hours, they are still being charged for quite a long time. No ill effects here either.

Most of the articles I have read regarding LiPo batteries uphold my theory.

Well i am an armed security officer, and the type of battery that the playbook and newer BB's have is the same type of battery in my $275 streamlight stinger HP flashlight. Now blackberry has not posted anything about fully discharging the battery, Streamlight however has a full paragraph warning about not "conditioning" a battery.....ever. They state that the newer batteries in todays electronics take a lot of wear and tear by constantly discharging below 20% then fully charging, they recommend keeping it fully charged if possible but never trying to make a "pattern" on a battery, stating this will destroy the batterys lifespan by 50%.

I tested this myself on a Iphone 3gs. I would charge it full, then let it die. For 6 months. After this period the battery wouldnt hold a charge for more than 2 hours. VS my 4 which i charged whenever i was near a charger. End result? 4 is over 2 years old, and still holds a full charge.

Enough data in my book :-D Especially in a device that requires small tools and at least 45 minutes of your time to reach the battery with expert knowledge of the device itself. A bold or a curve where you just pop off the door, and throw in a new battery is peanuts, but when i get my PB friday, i wont be discharging it fully at all if i can help it.

Whatever you do Jay, never ever completely discharge the Playbook. I can't remember the exact figures but the processor uses an algorithm that stops normal charging when the battery is lower than about 2.4 volts. When the battery drops below this level, the processor will only allow a charge for one minute. Hence stack charging.

To do this you have to plug the charger in for one minute, remove the charger, then replug for another minute and so on until the battery gets back above the 2.4 volt level. This can take half an hour or more to achieve. After this the battery will charge as normal.

Even then, the OS will not run until the battery reaches something like 3.5 volts. So you have to leave the charger in after stack charging for a while prior to actually turning the Playbook back on.

If you search the forum for stack charging, there is a very good write up (by F2 I think) on the process. So KEEP IT CHARGED.

Alan.

Now blackberry has not posted anything about fully discharging the battery,

They recommend discharge until auto shut off then full recharge for a couple of cycles if the battery meter is not functioning correctly.


My PB almost always gets into the red before I recharge. After 451 charge cycles and a little less then two years everything is good. It has gone I to auto shut down probably 15 times now. My wife's PB routinely goes to auto shut down and is left for a day before I notice. Has always recharged just by plugging in.
I have read enough stories of PB's not charging so I know there must be some issue but that's not my experience.

The PB really takes care of itself. Shutting off before the voltage gets too low and stopping the charge when the correct voltage is reached. I will leave it to the BlackBerry engineers to worry about my battery.

Originally Posted by Chaddface

They recommend discharge until auto shut off then full recharge for a couple of cycles if the battery meter is not functioning correctly.


My PB almost always gets into the red before I recharge. After 451 charge cycles and a little less then two years everything is good. It has gone I to auto shut down probably 15 times now. My wife's PB routinely goes to auto shut down and is left for a day before I notice. Has always recharged just by plugging in.
I have read enough stories of PB's not charging so I know there must be some issue but that's not my experience.

The PB really takes care of itself. Shutting off before the voltage gets too low and stopping the charge when the correct voltage is reached. I will leave it to the BlackBerry engineers to worry about my battery.

This right here is what im talking about. I was un-aware that it had this safety. This is not a full shut down, this is like a 10% safety. Draining it to 0% dead repetitively is what kills batteries. Batteries have a set # of charges that they will live through. This is measured not in 0-100% charges however. as most people just panic and charge theirs when it gets to 40-50% anyway. When it has a 0-100% charge this is what the manufacturers of modern battery's cell a "double" charge, and its just that, it takes twice as much life from the cell than a normal "half charge" :-)

Just like my flashlight that *by the price* should be made of solid gold, we've had guys fully dump the battery on duty *even though we have car chargers to prevent this*. for like 2 months.....then have to pay $40-$60 for a new battery 2 months in. because of lets say 10,000 charges, they get 4-5 k sometimes as low as 800. Its a nasty thing to do to any nice piece of electronics :-)

Originally Posted by Chaddface

They recommend discharge until auto shut off then full recharge for a couple of cycles if the battery meter is not functioning correctly.


My PB almost always gets into the red before I recharge. After 451 charge cycles and a little less then two years everything is good. It has gone I to auto shut down probably 15 times now. My wife's PB routinely goes to auto shut down and is left for a day before I notice. Has always recharged just by plugging in.
I have read enough stories of PB's not charging so I know there must be some issue but that's not my experience.

The PB really takes care of itself. Shutting off before the voltage gets too low and stopping the charge when the correct voltage is reached. I will leave it to the BlackBerry engineers to worry about my battery.

I think the stack charging issue only occurs if the PB is left for quite a time after auto shutdown. I still don't like mine to get low on battery though.

Originally Posted by dangerousfen

Sorry jpash, I don't do clinical test data. All I know is that charging the laptop hasn't done any harm to the battery. Much the same with my wife's laptop (Mine = Acer. Her's = Medion) which is also always on charge. We also leave our 9900's on charge all night and considering they fully charge in about 2 hours, they are still being charged for quite a long time. No ill effects here either.

Most of the articles I have read regarding LiPo batteries uphold my theory.

Clinical data to me is data not obtained by experiments in which variables were controlled and the results expressed usually in numbers. Would appreciate any additional references that might be cited I didn't use one from a model plane user be cause the battery type is a little different and the discharge rates are much higher.

Chaddface: What are cycles and battery health reported as and what do you consider the new values of battery health were?

Originally Posted by jpash549

Chaddface: What are cycles and battery health reported as and what do you consider the new values of battery health were?

At 127 charges my health was 87%
451 charge cycles now and health is 83%

The PB(or the battery chip probably) counts a 0-100% 1 charge. So it would take two 50-100%'s to equal one charge cycle.

I did a drain test some time ago here.
http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...6/#post6931987

I should do it again to see what the change in time is. There has been a few OS updates since then. Comparing the results may not give any usable data.

Changing the battery is a piece of cake. Currently you can get one on eBay for about $40. I bought one to keep around just in case i ever need one.

Originally Posted by yamahammer

Changing the battery is a piece of cake. Currently you can get one on eBay for about $40. I bought one to keep around just in case i ever need one.

Got a link that could help folks feel more secure?

BlackBerry PlayBook Teardown & Repair Directions By DirectFix.com - YouTube

I found list video very helpful and is quite easy to follow. Of course be gentle!