[kbz1960]

Exactly, having FIPS approval means nothing if the device doesn't have PIM/e-mail/corporate apps and no way to log into the corporate network reliably. What is being protected? Movie files, Mp3's, and media!? Until RIM gets BES integration into the Playbook it won't be seriously considered by any organizations for corporate use, and until they get an native e-mail/PIM and more apps it wont be considered by many consumers either. The Playbook must be able to fully function in a corporate environment without a Blackberry phone. And every day that passes, corporations get closer to or finish testing of iPads for deployment, or Apple gets closer to finally nailing FIPS. RIM have had over 6 months to get this critical capability delivered, and if they wait too much longer it may not matter, at least on the tablet front.

If the playbook is being considered a no go because it doesn't have BES integration how are ipads and androids being integrated with no BES integration? Or are they not either?

[kill_9]

If you depend solely on a single device for your business, then you are an *****.

Period.

If you depend on a tablet computer to live your life, then you are an *****.

Period.

If you depend on any computer in any form to live your life, then you are simply one of the many out there who allowed their lives to be melded around technology and you have become a slave to the very thing of which Orwell spoke.

By my estimation the only ***** in this thread is someone named 'rs422a'. Note: I explicitly typed the asterisks not the probable word used by the person to whom I am responding.

Speaking for myself, my BlackBerry smartphone has become an essential part of my daily life to the point I only access my email via a notebook or desktop computer to release queued messages that have not been configured for automatic acceptance by my filtering rules or to trashcan those truly SPAM emails. Native email client on my notebook computer? Not since I bought the BlackBerry Bold 9700 a few years ago. The BlackBerry tablet has become an extension of my smartphone with a few additional capabilities which further increase my reliance upon mobile technology and services.

[ImsoUhoez]

all this tech talk has me lost lol

[Superfly_FR]

Exactly, having FIPS approval means nothing if the device doesn't have PIM/e-mail/corporate apps and no way to log into the corporate network reliably. What is being protected? Movie files, Mp3's, and media!? Until RIM gets BES integration into the Playbook it won't be seriously considered by any organizations for corporate use, and until they get an native e-mail/PIM and more apps it wont be considered by many consumers either. The Playbook must be able to fully function in a corporate environment without a Blackberry phone. And every day that passes, corporations get closer to or finish testing of iPads for deployment, or Apple gets closer to finally nailing FIPS. RIM have had over 6 months to get this critical capability delivered, and if they wait too much longer it may not matter, at least on the tablet front.

I don't get it.
PB + BB phone IS the key security system.
In a critical environment, PB provides screen and power while phone provides physical ID and secured network connexion (BES). Who is seriously considering security over a wifi network (more precisely with a wifi enabled device) ? I mean, for what you mentioned (mp3 and media ...), it is fair secure enough, but for real privacy/security/confidentiality ... it can't be seriously reliable.

Once again, all is question of what you call "security" and I agree that many think about "secure enough" because they don't want the constraints that "real secure" will imply.
That is what Balance will bring to BB/PB, fair and full security, depending of what you have to do. Remotely defined and controlled ... can't beat this.

EDIT : "real secure" : so far this can be exposed as existing, of course.

[royceberry]

They complain because they wish to voice their dis-satisfaction with a product that does not perform as promised, or is not updated by the manufacturer as eluded to.
They complain because their expectations were greater than their experience.
They complain because the company they are loyal to, RIM, gives them an occasional bone and then proceeds to punish them for buying the product by ignoring them for the following 12-24 months.
I have been using BB phones for almost 10 years. I have had 4...I just bought the Bold 9930. I really like my BB phones, I really dislike RIM for always coming up short of what they could be.
I am not interested in a 16gb anything.
The 32gb PB, IMHO, is not worth the $ without the software updates promised for the past 6 months. I do not live in Australia where aparently you can get a 64gb PB for around $50.
The announcement by SKYPE that they have no plans to integrate into PB is a very bad sign and might be a dealbreaker for a device in the year 2012.

[wobbly]

Why not just get an android tablet or ipad2 if you always complaining about your playbook? I mean really? lol ALL TABLET PCS are going to have issues or something you dislike about it. Thoughts? No pun intended lol I know how sensitive people can be.

I have both the playbook and galaxy tab GT-P1000.
The tab since february and playbook since july ! both were presents after leaving hospital
Had not 1 SINGLE PROBLEM with the tab, so many with the playbook its a joke.
Biggest problem with the playbook is holding wifi connection.
You need to have both and use both a lot, then your in the position to make judgement.
Not base opinions on just hating apple or android, as a lot of people on here do.

[lnichols]

I don't get it.
PB + BB phone IS the key security system.
In a critical environment, PB provides screen and power while phone provides physical ID and secured network connexion (BES). Who is seriously considering security over a wifi network (more precisely with a wifi enabled device) ? I mean, for what you mentioned (mp3 and media ...), it is fair secure enough, but for real privacy/security/confidentiality ... it can't be seriously reliable.

Once again, all is question of what you call "security" and I agree that many think about "secure enough" because they don't want the constraints that "real secure" will imply.
That is what Balance will bring to BB/PB, fair and full security, depending of what you have to do. Remotely defined and controlled ... can't beat this.

EDIT : "real secure" : so far this can be exposed as existing, of course.

Corporations and Government don't want companion devices. Okay so to have a secure solution with the Playbook you have to spend $500 for the cheapest Playbook, and $350 for the cheapest Blackberry (Curve), and then you require both to be near each other to work at $850. Government is getting ready to make massive cuts, corporations are letting people use their own smartphones to save money. If the Playbook were able to talk to BES directly over a WiFi network it would be just as secure as using a Blackberry smartphone because the data stream would be encrypted at the same security level as the phone does across the cellular data network, and they eventually both hit the Internet. The security is both the data on the device, and the transmission of data across any network to the aggregation point (in this case BES). The transport network is irrelevant. I use FIPS approved VPN clients public WiFi networks all the time and the data is secure. Anyway the point is the device needs to be able to do it on its own, without a Blackberry phone, whether its WiFi only talking to a hotspot or or the upcoming 3g/4g Playbooks. And yes the FIPS security policy for the Playbook states that the crypto module has the ability to securely encrypt data on the Playbook itself and it is safe, as well as the transport of data across networks.

iPad can do this now (not FIPS approved though) with a Mac OS X server having the ability to be a VPN concentrator for iPads, iPhones and iPods. They also have many VPN clients made for them to to work with VPN concentrators. They got OS X FIPS approved already and I heard from people who deal with NIST that they think that Apple may finally have a version of iOS that will get FIPS approved. Apple will market the **** out of that if it happens, and US Federal Government business will start falling into Apples hands.

As for Balance, I've heard about it for well over a year, Maybe two now, and all that I have seen of it is a powerpoint slide of a Teeter Totter this year at DevCon. RIM has talked about a lot of cool things for a long time, but has yet to deliver. I hope this changes, but all we've heard from RIM since April is what this thing will do, but yet to deliver.

[Superfly_FR]

Quoted in italic in the response

Corporations and Government don't want companion devices. Okay so to have a secure solution with the Playbook you have to spend $500 for the cheapest Playbook, and $350 for the cheapest Blackberry (Curve), and then you require both to be near each other to work at $850.
They probably won't miss also to add the cost extra data plans required for other connected stand-alone devices in their calculation. This will pay for the phone within, say, 1,5 year, and they still have to buy (low cost ?) phones to ... have phone calls !

If the Playbook were able to talk to BES directly over a WiFi network it would be just as secure as using a Blackberry smartphone because the data stream would be encrypted at the same security level [...]
Sorry, I've not been clear enough. I meant that on a high security (what I called critical) item, you can't rely on wifi enabled devices (moreover if they have auto sign-up to open wifi networks). This is a wide open door to intrusion, in many ways.

[kbz1960]

Corporations and Government don't want companion devices. Okay so to have a secure solution with the Playbook you have to spend $500 for the cheapest Playbook, and $350 for the cheapest Blackberry (Curve), and then you require both to be near each other to work at $850. Government is getting ready to make massive cuts, corporations are letting people use their own smartphones to save money. If the Playbook were able to talk to BES directly over a WiFi network it would be just as secure as using a Blackberry smartphone because the data stream would be encrypted at the same security level as the phone does across the cellular data network, and they eventually both hit the Internet. The security is both the data on the device, and the transmission of data across any network to the aggregation point (in this case BES). The transport network is irrelevant. I use FIPS approved VPN clients public WiFi networks all the time and the data is secure. Anyway the point is the device needs to be able to do it on its own, without a Blackberry phone, whether its WiFi only talking to a hotspot or or the upcoming 3g/4g Playbooks. And yes the FIPS security policy for the Playbook states that the crypto module has the ability to securely encrypt data on the Playbook itself and it is safe, as well as the transport of data across networks.

iPad can do this now (not FIPS approved though) with a Mac OS X server having the ability to be a VPN concentrator for iPads, iPhones and iPods. They also have many VPN clients made for them to to work with VPN concentrators. They got OS X FIPS approved already and I heard from people who deal with NIST that they think that Apple may finally have a version of iOS that will get FIPS approved. Apple will market the **** out of that if it happens, and US Federal Government business will start falling into Apples hands.

As for Balance, I've heard about it for well over a year, Maybe two now, and all that I have seen of it is a powerpoint slide of a Teeter Totter this year at DevCon. RIM has talked about a lot of cool things for a long time, but has yet to deliver. I hope this changes, but all we've heard from RIM since April is what this thing will do, but yet to deliver.

OK, so the government etc. will not stand for 2 devices so that means that they will not buy any tablet since they are not a phone and the people still need a phone.

[lnichols]

OK, so the government etc. will not stand for 2 devices so that means that they will not buy any tablet since they are not a phone and the people still need a phone.

They don't buy everyone Blackberry devices, or even a phones for that matter. Most people don't want government issued phones, the Blackberry just does it so if they get a Blackberry they have to get the phone functionality/number too. Here is an example, lets say you have the option for a device to allow you to use your person laptop to access the government network securely, but it costs an organization $600 per year to use, and you have to have your own internet (WiFi, hotsport, etc), and your own computer to use it and they don't reimburse or pay you for the connectivity or the computer. You have a Blackberry option that you have to pay one group for the phone itself (lets say $400 to $600), another group for the SIM/service (at least $70 per month), and a yearly fee to cover BES (don't know) back to the first group, and it only supports basically e-mail and calendar because they lock down BBM. Now look at a Playbook with full BES access and WiFi only (I know its vaporware, but we assume one day it will do this). It should allow you to do everything that Option 1 will because option 1 is Citrix, option 2 minus the celluar network access (unless they tether or something on their own dime), costs $500 to $700 once, and a yearly BES fee and you allow people to buy their own data connection for on the go if they want to be that connected or use home wifi. I think the Playbook option would be very compelling at that point for someone who doesn't want phone, would eliminate the threat of using personal computers, while providing much if not all of the same functionality.

[tayl0rd]

OK, so the government etc. will not stand for 2 devices so that means that they will not buy any tablet since they are not a phone and the people still need a phone.

If that is true, why is the PlayBook the only tablet approved for deployment in (U.S.) government agencies; FBI, CIA, NSA, etc.? Who was it, Russia, that has banned iPads from government use and are favoring the PlayBook? (Big whoop that it's Russia, but still.) Other governments are also following suit. Who knows? Vetting 2.0 with the various governments might be what the delay is. Any detractors ever think about that?

[kb5zht]

If that is true, why is the PlayBook the only tablet approved for deployment in (U.S.) government agencies; FBI, CIA, NSA, etc.? Who was it, Russia, that has banned iPads from government use and are favoring the PlayBook? (Big whoop that it's Russia, but still.) Other governments are also following suit. Who knows? Vetting 2.0 with the various governments might be what the delay is. Any detractors ever think about that?

Actually the word around the campfire is that ipads are on their way to FIPS.

I would council that pressure on rim, and not on those demanding more from rim, should grow. While the playbook has sat still, i am telling you now, new tablets are in the works and give rim's notoriously slow nature, it is actually conceivable that competing pads will hit the shelf that have what is out there now plus what rim is striving, but cant seem to accomplish, in the playbook.

If you think rim's stock price is down, wait until a pad comes out that already runs android, has native email and core apps so sought after... and priced the same as the playbook. Rim will have only just begun to see it's woes....

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[kbz1960]

If that is true, why is the PlayBook the only tablet approved for deployment in (U.S.) government agencies; FBI, CIA, NSA, etc.? Who was it, Russia, that has banned iPads from government use and are favoring the PlayBook? (Big whoop that it's Russia, but still.) Other governments are also following suit. Who knows? Vetting 2.0 with the various governments might be what the delay is. Any detractors ever think about that?

You're talking to the wrong person here if you read what I was quoting. I'm no detractor.

[Superfly_FR]

@ inichols.
FYI my monthly plan with unlimited data (3G+ @ 7.2 Mbs, lowered speed over 1Gb monthly) is under 25 � . I paid 99� for my Blackberry Bold 9900, with my fidelity plan and 24 months subscription.
Companies with floats usually gets much better prices ...

I can understand that wifi/BES would be usefull, I just think this is not mandatory as is, as the existing process (PB+Phone) has already all operational and rock-solid.

[Superfly_FR]

Actually the word around the campfire is that ipads are on their way to FIPS.

Well, it "will come, soon", apple has the "potential" to do it ...
For once, this is not RIM that announce without time frame (and no one cares about, as it should be). Regarding Ipads, obtaining this certification would certainly mean a purpose-designed Os ... not the current generic Ios.
Tomorrow's just another day ...

[Superfly_FR]

They don't buy everyone Blackberry devices, or even a phones for that matter. [...]

(I read your post again sorry for the two pass.)

You mean that they'll buy a tablet, which usage is mainly mobility, to people that don't even 'deserve' a phone ?
They probably won't buy either a 2 or 3 times price factor tablet against regular laptop or (moreover) nettop ...

[lnichols]

If the playbook is being considered a no go because it doesn't have BES integration how are ipads and androids being integrated with no BES integration? Or are they not either?

Right now the only way to use those devices would be with Good for places that require and abide by FIPS, but I have yet to see any working. I've heard of testing, but nothing more. I'm not saying Playbooks are not being considered anywhere, I'm saying since the Bridge is just a web server of the BBM/e-mail/contact apps on the phone, why would someone issue both a Playbook and a phone, when you can just issue the phone and the end user will get the same same data. iPad does not require and iPhone to have full functionality, it is a standalone device, and the Playbook must be too at some point. If it has enhanced features with the Blackberry then great, but it also must have full functionality that the competition has by itself too.

[lnichols]

(I read your post again sorry for the two pass.)

You mean that they'll buy a tablet, which usage is mainly mobility, to people that don't even 'deserve' a phone ?
They probably won't buy either a 2 or 3 times price factor tablet against regular laptop or (moreover) nettop ...

It has nothing to do with deserving a phone. A Bold retail in the US is actually more expensive than a 16 GB Playbook retail. Were not talking private sector buying phones on contracts, we are talking unlocked phones and various service providers around the world. Regs that accompany a government issued laptop require a lot of costs for software to secure them, and they usually end of causing troubles when someone loses them so a lot of organizations don't even issue them anymore. A FIPS approved blackberry phone is centrally managed by the BES and is ready to go out of the box and gets e-mail and calendar info, and you have to pay the carrier extra for BES. A hypothetical FIPS approved Playbook managed by a BES and with full VPN access to the network via BES would be the same principle of being able to be used and managed right out of the box, have e-mail and calendar (with native apps), and be able to do much more, only thing you don't have is the phone part. Being able to use a Blackberry or a Playbook for mobility is a much better proposition cost wise than having to have a Blackberry and a Playbook. I know tons of people who don't have Blackberry or government issued phones, but are issued ways to remotely access the network from home or on travel. This I think is a perfect fit for this currently hypothetical, fully functional, standalone Playbook.

[FF22]

Back to the original question: "Question to the people that COMPLAIN ABOUT THEIR BBPB"

Because it still does not do what those boys at rim said it would do. Yeah, yeah - they never promised but they sure as heck intimated that it would be a professional tablet and still intimate that it will leap ahead of the competition. They stumbled at the starting gate and they are still stumbling. If they don't finish the race soon someone should offer them the starting gun!