[khalmarri]

What is the percentage of C++ programmers compared to Java and Objective C programmers. I just want to be optimistic regarding the NDK.

I am sick of AIR junk. There are too many good programmers willing to bring the best apps for the PlayBook but AIR and WebWorks SDKs really really suck.

RIM killed the Facebook app when it developed it using AIR. It sucked although it has a nice features. It's clunky and laggy. It sucks.

One RIM representative once told me that porting an iOS app to PlayBook would require 30% of the total time spent on developing the original iOs app because of the similarities between Objective C and C++. This is promising. He also said that programmers will take advantage of the available C++ codes and will implement them in the NDK. Porting open source apps such as VLC will become possible and easy.

I think NDK will become a game changer. It will attract everybody to develop for the Playbook. QNX is the best OS so far.

Any thoughts guyz?

[FF22]

One has to hope that the kit will not be too little, too late. You'd hope that a few killer apps would come out of the experience so now if rim could speed up its availability.

[blackjack93117]

What is the percentage of C++ programmers compared to Java and Objective C programmers. I just want to be optimistic regarding the NDK.

I am sick of AIR junk. There are too many good programmers willing to bring the best apps for the PlayBook but AIR and WebWorks SDKs really really suck.

RIM killed the Facebook app when it developed it using AIR. It sucked although it has a nice features. It's clunky and laggy. It sucks.

One RIM representative once told me that porting an iOS app to PlayBook would require 30% of the total time spent on developing the original iOs app because of the similarities between Objective C and C++. This is promising. He also said that programmers will take advantage of the available C++ codes and will implement them in the NDK. Porting open source apps such as VLC will become possible and easy.

I think NDK will become a game changer. It will attract everybody to develop for the Playbook. QNX is the best OS so far.

Any thoughts guyz?

From my experience, any tool set that you're not used to sucks. Most often it's pretty much a matter of experience and familiarity with the tools. A bad carpenter blames his tools. Not always the case though, as some tools just plain suck.

To blame a laggy Facebook app on AIR seems a bit prejudgemental, as so many apps are not that way. How do you know the programmer just didn't suck?

But I do hope you get the tool you prefer.

[haimez]

From my experience, any tool set that you're not used to sucks. Most often it's pretty much a matter of experience and familiarity with the tools. A bad carpenter blames his tools. Not always the case though, as some tools just plain suck.

To blame a laggy Facebook app on AIR seems a bit prejudgemental, as so many apps are not that way. How do you know the programmer just didn't suck?

But I do hope you get the tool you prefer.

Allow me to settle that equivocation for you- AIR apps are inherently slow. Flash is a very high level language originally designed for web pages that has been recently adapted for general purpose use. It requires a fair amount of processing overhead and runs *almost* everything in a single thread event queue. Generally, that's not a problem but if you have a lot going on (and therefore a lot of things backed up in the event queue), everything suffers including the UI. Incidentally, JavaScript (a la WebWorks) suffers from this same shortcoming as a general purpose language.

We currently have it as an option only because it was easier for RIM after all the work they were doing to get flash to work in the browser. Notice both of the development options currently available are heavily based on web technologies.

[biggulpseh]

It's not only the fact that it's laggy, but AIR apps are missing some SDKs like the magnetometer, etc. I think there's always a chance for speed to improve, but obviously no app coded in AIR or webworks will ever have the potential of an app coded natively.

I agree with OP that facebook is slow, I wouldn't say it 'sucks' but it's slow and tends to crash from time to time.

I've heard that RIM is dedicating much effort into the NDK and bringing more native apps to the Playbook. Acquiring JayCut could also mean a decent video editor is on the way.

[lavrishevo]

My thoughts are market share. What is the incentive for developers to program for QNX over Android or especially iOS where the real profits are? There is some but very little. I seriously doubt you will see much of anything until the Playbook, if ever, starts gaining some traction. The developers are all about what makes them the most amount of cash as fast as possible. Why do you think Apple's App Store is insanely large and even the Android Market totally sucks in comparison. I want you to think about this number for a second. Android Market = around 300 tablet optimized apps. Apple's App Store = over 100,000. See a slight difference in numbers there?

[blackjack93117]

My thoughts are market share. What is the incentive for developers to program for QNX over Android or especially iOS where the real profits are? There is some but very little. I seriously doubt you will see much of anything until the Playbook, if ever, starts gaining some traction. The developers are all about what makes them the most amount of cash as fast as possible. Why do you think Apple's App Store is insanely large and even the Android Market totally sucks in comparison. I want you to think about this number for a second. Android Market = around 300 tablet optimized apps. Apple's App Store = over 100,000. See a slight difference in numbers there?

I thought about it for a second.
Key words "insanely large". It isn't about quantity of apps, it's about quality and usefulness, plus capability of the hardware it runs on. I don't believe in the "number of apps" measure of comparing platforms or devices, but unfortunately, reviewers and marketers do.
.

[lavrishevo]

No offense blackjack, but anyone who has experienced the various markets can testify to the overwhelming superiority of QUALITY applications in the app store. I know it first hand.

There is absolutely no comparison to how pollished iOS apps are vs Android. They don't crash, there is no need for anti virus software, no need for programs to kill apps running in the background. The variety and quailty of iOS apps is bar none! No one even comes close. I don't say this out of being an iPad (mostly) user but also an Android user and QNX. At this point and for some time to come you can't touch iOS with a 10 foot pole when it comes to the quality of applications.

[ADGrant]

What is the percentage of C++ programmers compared to Java and Objective C programmers. I just want to be optimistic regarding the NDK.

There are probably many more Java developers than C++ developers. A higher level of skill is required to write C++ code. Objective C is very similar to C++ in many respects but radically different in others. it is pretty much only used to develop apps for the Apple systems (iOS and OS-X). C++ has been a much more popular language historically but the popularity of iOS has led to many more developers learning Objective-C.

None of this probably matters. Developers write apps for popular OS platforms. If the PB sells in big numbers there will be lots of apps.

[OverShadow417]

I tend to agree - the larger market brings more possible revenue to a developer, so you go there.

But there are other things that would bring developers to smaller markets - for one, if the larger market is already overloaded on similar apps, a smaller market might make for better sales. Another would be, as stated above, ease of conversion to other markets - if you take the time to program for one market, but it takes half the time to convert the code for use on another market, it can still be very profitable to spend the time doing so.

It's also true that there are a lot of crap apps on the iOS store. But I think you'll see the same development that kinda happened for BB phones versus the iPhones - there won't be all the crap apps from the App Store redeveloped for App World, but you'll get the "Super Apps" and the quality apps, along with the various developers who just wanna program for the PB.

I mean, how many must-own apps have you seen on the App Store that didn't have a version in App World, or at least a similar app, for BB phones?

We won't be able to boast that we have 100,000 apps, probably ever - but we will eventually be able to say "We have the apps you will want."

[lavrishevo]

I tend to agree - the larger market brings more possible revenue to a developer, so you go there.

But there are other things that would bring developers to smaller markets - for one, if the larger market is already overloaded on similar apps, a smaller market might make for better sales. Another would be, as stated above, ease of conversion to other markets - if you take the time to program for one market, but it takes half the time to convert the code for use on another market, it can still be very profitable to spend the time doing so.

It's also true that there are a lot of crap apps on the iOS store. But I think you'll see the same development that kinda happened for BB phones versus the iPhones - there won't be all the crap apps from the App Store redeveloped for App World, but you'll get the "Super Apps" and the quality apps, along with the various developers who just wanna program for the PB.

I mean, how many must-own apps have you seen on the App Store that didn't have a version in App World, or at least a similar app, for BB phones?

We won't be able to boast that we have 100,000 apps, probably ever - but we will eventually be able to say "We have the apps you will want."

I agree with you. I really do hope they start developing. It is one of the most depressing things to do is open App World and see that even the 4-5 rated paid apps are less involved and developed then iOS's crap apps. I sure hope something change because I would flip my lid if all I had was what is available in the App World.

[OverShadow417]

I know I've rated apps more generously than I would if there were a "solid" app for comparison. Like the periodic table "Platinum" - there are a few things that bug me about it, and it can sometimes feel laggy, but I gave it a solid review because, compared to the others I tried, it was easily the best.

But I truly think once they get their real Software Development Kit out there, the quality, and variety, will skyrocket - which I think was the point of this thread.

:-D

[DaveyDoo]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is the cost and quality of the development environments available.

For iOS, there is XCode which is free. This offers excellent visual tools for building compelling user interfaces. You can see this with all the good iOS apps.

For the PlayBook, there is essentially FlashBuilder or notepad. FlashBuilder costs $$ but has quite nice tools to use (not as nice as XCode IMO). Notepad is free, the the visual tools are, err, non-existent.

I don't know what development environment there will be for the NDK, but for developers to accept it (and therefore to develop good apps with it), I believe it needs to be free and have good tools for user interface development.

[dkonigs]

I don't know what development environment there will be for the NDK, but for developers to accept it (and therefore to develop good apps with it), I believe it needs to be free and have good tools for user interface development.

If RIM continues on their existing plans, you're going to be sorely disappointed. They currently view the NDK as a way to make game developers happy, and little more. From everything I've heard, the only UI support it really has is providing a raw OpenGL canvas. So in other words, its going to provide nada as far as UI development.

Of course 3rd parties can step in and try to do something about this. I know there's already a fair amount of interest in porting the Qt C++ library to the platform, for example. Let's just hope these 3rd parties care more about the community than their peers on the BlackBerry phone platform. As far as I can tell, any decent commercial developers for the BlackBerry phones would rather keep all their knowledge and tooling in-house, rather than think of helping "the competition" in ways RIM hasn't gotten around to themselves.

[DaveyDoo]

If RIM continues on their existing plans, you're going to be sorely disappointed. They currently view the NDK as a way to make game developers happy, and little more. From everything I've heard, the only UI support it really has is providing a raw OpenGL canvas. So in other words, its going to provide nada as far as UI development.

Of course 3rd parties can step in and try to do something about this. I know there's already a fair amount of interest in porting the Qt C++ library to the platform, for example. Let's just hope these 3rd parties care more about the community than their peers on the BlackBerry phone platform. As far as I can tell, any decent commercial developers for the BlackBerry phones would rather keep all their knowledge and tooling in-house, rather than think of helping "the competition" in ways RIM hasn't gotten around to themselves.

If this is the case, then I fear that we won't see a huge difference in the number of apps that are available for the PB.

In my mind, the NDK could (and should) be used for all types of apps and not just games.

[calaviqpfza4]

I thought about it for a second.
Key words "insanely large". It isn't about quantity of apps, it's about quality and usefulness, plus capability of the hardware it runs on. I don't believe in the "number of apps" measure of comparing platforms or devices, but unfortunately, reviewers and marketers do.
.

How's the "quality" or "quantity" of the QNX apps treating you in the Blackberry App World? That's what I thought...

I still maintain the best app on the playbook is it's calculator.

[calaviqpfza4]

QNX is the best OS so far.

Sorry, but I'll bite. Why is QNX the best OS so far?

[khalmarri]

Sorry, but I'll bite. Why is QNX the best OS so far?

It's just the best. If you try the PlayBook for 5 mins, you will realize that. It is so powerful, clean, best multitasking and high potential. Android is unfortunately Java based and iOs is so limited. QNX can run Android apps, Adobe Air apps, Java apps and of course Native apps.

QNX is super compared to iOs and Android. It's best to compare it with OSX or Linux and Windows.

[ADGrant]

It's just the best. If you try the PlayBook for 5 mins, you will realize that. It is so powerful, clean, best multitasking and high potential. Android is unfortunately Java based and iOs is so limited. QNX can run Android apps, Adobe Air apps, Java apps and of course Native apps.

QNX is super compared to iOs and Android. It's best to compare it with OSX or Linux and Windows.

IOS and OSX are the same operating system.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[khalmarri]

IOS and OSX are the same operating system.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

No they are not, iOs is the tiny form of OSX. OSX and QNX are all Unix based but they're not the same. Mac OSX and iOs share the same core or Kernel.

[sportline]

It's just the best. If you try the PlayBook for 5 mins, you will realize that. It is so powerful, clean, best multitasking and high potential. Android is unfortunately Java based and iOs is so limited. QNX can run Android apps, Adobe Air apps, Java apps and of course Native apps.

QNX is super compared to iOs and Android. It's best to compare it with OSX or Linux and Windows.

Sounds like an advertisement. Just the best, high potential, super, what else? Why wouldn't android or any other os invent similar os?

[ADGrant]

No they are not, iOs is the tiny form of OSX. OSX and QNX are all Unix based but they're not the same. Mac OSX and iOs share the same core or Kernel.

OSX and iOS share the same kernel and most other OS components including the BSD APIs. The major difference is the GUI libraries.

[anon(1603170)]

Sounds like an advertisement. Just the best, high potential, super, what else? Why wouldn't android or any other os invent similar os?

QNX capabilities are those of a desktop OS, but QNX per se. But yes, at this point, its just advertisement, or just word of mouth. Considering that one, it is being marketed as a mobile tablet OS, and two, its been shrunk and limited to the extent of making it look like just another mobile OS and its being treated like one. The only true advantage it currently offers in the eyes of customers over the competition is great multi-tasking, unless you want to add flash into that... but then again android offers these two, multitasking being better on QNX "IMO".

Android is not java, it is linux based, that the apps are java is another thing. Plus, its still not concrete whether QNX will be able to run java apps natively, be it android or blackberry. Android player is a simulator, therefore not native, and for blackberry, its still referred to as a player, but then again, it is partially simulating android, no other OS in the tablet market offers that.

It doesn't matter if the potential is infinite, what matters is, if they are going to put it at work and how they do it.

[kbz1960]

If RIM continues on their existing plans, you're going to be sorely disappointed. They currently view the NDK as a way to make game developers happy, and little more. From everything I've heard, the only UI support it really has is providing a raw OpenGL canvas. So in other words, its going to provide nada as far as UI development.

Of course 3rd parties can step in and try to do something about this. I know there's already a fair amount of interest in porting the Qt C++ library to the platform, for example. Let's just hope these 3rd parties care more about the community than their peers on the BlackBerry phone platform. As far as I can tell, any decent commercial developers for the BlackBerry phones would rather keep all their knowledge and tooling in-house, rather than think of helping "the competition" in ways RIM hasn't gotten around to themselves.

First professional grade tablet and they are more worried about game developers???????????????

[Foreverup]

How's the "quality" or "quantity" of the QNX apps treating you in the Blackberry App World? That's what I thought...

I still maintain the best app on the playbook is it's calculator.

OK I'll bite what other apps have you used for the Playbook? I know I have used better apps than any of the calculator apps