01-27-12 12:22 AM
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  1. kb5zht's Avatar
    Too many in this threadbeat me to the punch... but yea, nothing RIM does especially concerning the playbook is "ahead of schedule". They havent really even been on schedule in a long time.

    The upside? A few months to 6 months after 2.0 is released you will see a general forgiveness among the blackberry community and soon after the entire electronic gadget market. Gonna be smok'n!
    01-24-12 01:10 PM
  2. djnshores's Avatar
    The software industry is incredibly hard to predict.

    I've worked in the industry for years. A lot goes into making a release. The pressure can be overwhelming and usually is. The fact that they don't release on "deadline" isn't to make everyone nuts. (and no, they probably aren't reading these forums to get ideas..., they don't have the time or energy for that.)

    It's about testing, testing, and then more testing.

    If they release too soon, everyone complains.
    If they take too long, everyone complains.

    Yes, that 3 weeks is incredibly important. I'd be willing to bet they test right up until the nano-second of release. And even then, people will complain.

    If you've never walked a mile in their shoes, please don't tell them what size to wear. It's VERY EASY to be a "monday morning quarterback".

    Seems to me they should just do what's right for them.
    Oh wait, they are.
    Unfortunately in the competitive tablet market where choices abound, the consumer doesn't really care what the developers are going through to bring the product to market. We live in a fast paced world where people want instant gratification from their toys. It is truly a do or die scenario for RIM.
    01-24-12 01:15 PM
  3. kb5zht's Avatar
    Unfortunately in the competitive tablet market where choices abound, the consumer doesn't really care what the developers are going through to bring the product to market. We live in a fast paced world where people want instant gratification from their toys. It is truly a do or die scenario for RIM.
    Very well-worded point. A lot of people tend to forget, too that playbooks arent free devices that are being handed out to everybody with a hand out. We paid for them.... and the consumer has a right to demand what he wants, or, at least expect what he was told he was getting.

    If a customer in Mcdonalds paid for a full meal and all the restaraunt owner offers is the french fries and a list of reasons why the burger and soda werent included, should the customer just shut up and take the loss and understand "the cooks are working very hard", especially when burger king right down the road has the full menu available? No, Mcdonald's has failed on their end of the business agreement, and competition is the name of the game. Its not acceptable to tell the customer who paid money for the product/service "dont judge the cooks until you walked a mile in their shoes". That proverb applies to the general everyday person that owes you nothing and you have no right to judge him. If you employ him, on the other hand...

    Incidentally, I picked Mcdonald's and Burgerking's names at random. Dont read anything into that, I could have just as easily swapped the names.
    FF22 and ayushagnihotri like this.
    01-24-12 01:49 PM
  4. cntrydncr223's Avatar
    Unfortunately in the competitive tablet market where choices abound, the consumer doesn't really care what the developers are going through to bring the product to market. We live in a fast paced world where people want instant gratification from their toys. It is truly a do or die scenario for RIM.
    Still, said consumers ON THIS FORUM may be able to digest the reality instead of bashing RIM for their lack of (fill in the blank)...
    RIM does NOT OWE anyone ANYTHING.

    Once that is understood, perhaps a little patience, tolerance and appreciation might evolve or ensue.

    It's real easy to bash them when they aren't here to defend themselves (not that they have to).

    Let us not forget, "what goes around, comes around...", "do unto others" and "cause and effect". No matter what lable you put on it, Jim Croce was onto to something when he sang "don't spit into the wind".
    01-24-12 01:49 PM
  5. kb5zht's Avatar
    RIM does NOT OWE anyone ANYTHING.
    Incorrect. They owe the customers that paid for a product the full product they paid for. Even the crackberry podcast team are referring now to the playbook in its current state as a beta product. Returning to my previous analogy, if you went to a burger joint and bought a soda, fries and a hamburger and all you received was the fries, would you tolerate being told the restaruant didnt owe you anything?


    And spitting in the wind aside, here is a more appropriate parable... Dont bite the hand that feeds you. RIM has consistently repaid its customer's loyalty with disappointments and missed deadlines. That needs to stop before the stock falls i to the single digit price range.
    Last edited by kb5zht; 01-24-12 at 02:36 PM.
    ericlc2 likes this.
    01-24-12 02:32 PM
  6. beman39's Avatar
    Still, said consumers ON THIS FORUM may be able to digest the reality instead of bashing RIM for their lack of (fill in the blank)...
    RIM does NOT OWE anyone ANYTHING.
    I'm sorry I disagree with you, I work damn hard for my money and no one gives me money, and RIM did not give me the device, so yes they do owe me if I buy their product and dont take my hard earned cash and buy another device, so your statement makes no sense! evryone one has reasonable expectations and if they can't meet them, then I suggest they get out of the biz.
    01-24-12 02:33 PM
  7. pmccartney's Avatar
    I traded my cash for the PB at the time of purchase. That ended the transaction. I owe them nothing and they owe me nothing.
    I knew what I was buying.
    bigbmc26, Kerrstar and Superfly_FR like this.
    01-24-12 02:39 PM
  8. djnshores's Avatar
    RIM doesn't do "early"
    Very funny! But not quite true! The Playbook came out last April before it was ready for prime time. RIM is great at putting the proverbial cart before the horse.

    RIM created their own mess with their focus on security. The Playbook was designed to be impervious to attack by hackers and it has succeeded well. But on the other hand, it also made it a lot harder to program. The Bridge is a perfect example of a Rube Goldberg solution to a problem. RIM didn't expect Android to take off like it did. Now it has to play nice with the competitive operating system.

    I want OS 2.0 to be right the first time and if it isn't released early then so be it. Just don't be late again.
    black hole likes this.
    01-24-12 02:40 PM
  9. kb5zht's Avatar
    Very funny! But not quite true! The Playbook came out last April before it was ready for prime time. RIM is great at putting the proverbial cart before the horse.

    RIM created their own mess with their focus on security. The Playbook was designed to be impervious to attack by hackers and it has succeeded well. But on the other hand, it also made it a lot harder to program. The Bridge is a perfect example of a Rube Goldberg solution to a problem. RIM didn't expect Android to take off like it did. Now it has to play nice with the competitive operating system.

    I want OS 2.0 to be right the first time and if it isn't released early then so be it. Just don't be late again.
    Well the product wasnt ready but release date was late. They missed Q1 which ended in march.
    01-24-12 02:43 PM
  10. kb5zht's Avatar
    I traded my cash for the PB at the time of purchase. That ended the transaction. I owe them nothing and they owe me nothing.
    I knew what I was buying.
    If you honestly knew the product would be in the condition it was was at release ahead of time AND you were good with it, I would hazard the guess you are in the very very small minority. .5%? .1%? Less? I doubt hardly anybody thought the bridge browser would crash if you tried to log into an account (like crackberry) using the playbook at launch.

    Do you really mean to imply the the product you received when you purchased it could never have been updated and you would be satisfied? That if you were like some of us and bought on April 19 and had blackberry device with no bbm at all and it were left that way that the device was complete and finished as intended?

    I think you are being dishonest.
    01-24-12 02:49 PM
  11. djnshores's Avatar
    Still, said consumers ON THIS FORUM may be able to digest the reality instead of bashing RIM for their lack of (fill in the blank)...
    RIM does NOT OWE anyone ANYTHING.

    Once that is understood, perhaps a little patience, tolerance and appreciation might evolve or ensue.

    It's real easy to bash them when they aren't here to defend themselves (not that they have to).

    Let us not forget, "what goes around, comes around...", "do unto others" and "cause and effect". No matter what lable you put on it, Jim Croce was onto to something when he sang "don't spit into the wind".
    I knew what I was getting into when I bought the Playbook. I made my choice and purchased it. I don't have much choice but to be patient and hope my investment pays off. Anyone with a vested interest in the company has a right to bash RIM's poor management. The hardware is very competitive with what is out there and in many cases superior. But superior hardware alone doesn't sell tablets. The Amazon Kindle Fire proved that.
    01-24-12 02:54 PM
  12. pmccartney's Avatar
    If you honestly knew the product would be in the condition it was was at release ahead of time AND you were good with it, I would hazard the guess you are in the very very small minority. .5%? .1%? Less? I doubt hardly anybody thought the bridge browser would crash if you tried to log into an account (like crackberry) using the playbook at launch.

    Do you really mean to imply the the product you received when you purchased it could never have been updated and you would be satisfied? That if you were like some of us and bought on April 19 and had blackberry device with no bbm at all and it were left that way that the device was complete and finished as intended?

    I think you are being dishonest.
    Not at all.
    Like I said. I knew what I was buying. I do have a BB and both combined do everything I need (and more).
    Will I be happy when OS2 is released? Yes but not because of PIM.
    black hole and Kerrstar like this.
    01-24-12 03:09 PM
  13. taylortbb's Avatar
    if you went to a burger joint and bought a soda, fries and a hamburger and all you received was the fries, would you tolerate being told the restaruant didnt owe you anything?
    No, I wouldn't. But what did RIM promise? They promised OS 2.0 in February, that's it. As long as they release OS 2.0 on any date up to and including February 29th they will have delivered what they promised when they promised. Being mad that it's not available earlier is like being mad that your pizza didn't arrive in 20 minutes when they promised 40, or being mad that your fries didn't get supersized for free.

    Maybe the restaurant down the street can deliver in 20 minutes, in which case you should have ordered from them. You're also welcome to say that it's bad business your pizza place can't also do 20 minutes and that's why they're losing business. But that changes nothing about what they owe you. You bought something and they delivered that something, regretting your purchase doesn't mean they short changed you.

    I'm not saying RIM shouldn't be trying to get OS 2.0 out the door earlier. I'm saying they don't owe you anything.
    pmccartney likes this.
    01-24-12 04:07 PM
  14. BB_Bmore's Avatar
    And with all that said ,I'm going to grab a bite to eat!!!
    pmccartney likes this.
    01-24-12 04:20 PM
  15. theegoldenone's Avatar
    No, I wouldn't. But what did RIM promise? They promised OS 2.0 in February, that's it. As long as they release OS 2.0 on any date up to and including February 29th they will have delivered what they promised when they promised. Being mad that it's not available earlier is like being mad that your pizza didn't arrive in 20 minutes when they promised 40, or being mad that your fries didn't get supersized for free.

    Maybe the restaurant down the street can deliver in 20 minutes, in which case you should have ordered from them. You're also welcome to say that it's bad business your pizza place can't also do 20 minutes and that's why they're losing business. But that changes nothing about what they owe you. You bought something and they delivered that something, regretting your purchase doesn't mean they short changed you.

    I'm not saying RIM shouldn't be trying to get OS 2.0 out the door earlier. I'm saying they don't owe you anything.
    Sorry to break up your analogy but what was the original release date they promised? Way before February. So for your pizza description, it would be like them saying it will be there in 40 mins and 5 mins prior to delivery they call and say 20 more minutes.
    01-24-12 04:21 PM
  16. beman39's Avatar
    I traded my cash for the PB at the time of purchase. That ended the transaction. I owe them nothing and they owe me nothing.
    I knew what I was buying.
    I knew what I was getting into when I bought the Playbook. I made my choice and purchased it. I don't have much choice but to be patient and hope my investment pays off. Anyone with a vested interest in the company has a right to bash RIM's poor management. The hardware is very competitive with what is out there and in many cases superior. But superior hardware alone doesn't sell tablets. The Amazon Kindle Fire proved that.
    REALLY?!! wow your naivety astounds me! so they don't owe you a properly working PB, they don't owe you to keep thier promises of specific release dates, they don't owe you a warranty if the PB brakes due to bad workmanship? REALLY? oooook...

    whether you knew all the short comings or not, they still OWE you an obligation to honor their warranty and product, also to keep their promises of when they will fix said problems and release dates of the new OS 2.0.. the mentality of oh well I traded my hard earned cash for a product then it doesn't matter if the product brakes 2/3/4 months down the road or apps don't work or wifi doesn't work keeps disconnecting but hey they don't owe me nothing.... C'MOOON! gimme a break! you way of thinking is TOTALLY UNREALISTIC sorry but I for one think they owe me...
    01-24-12 04:28 PM
  17. kill_9's Avatar
    i have this feeling that once 2.0 comes out.. i believe RIM will start being on time with everything
    ROFLMAO

    Thank you for the attempt at humour.
    01-24-12 05:41 PM
  18. xKrNMBoYx's Avatar
    I understand you wan't it badly, but I do not want a rushed product/update due to some fans that want the title "OS 2.0" for their playbook. Unlike your thoughts I think 3 weeks can make a big difference.

    Three weeks can make a of a difference when I am designing a building/program for studio
    01-24-12 11:21 PM
  19. cntrydncr223's Avatar
    Very well-worded point. A lot of people tend to forget, too that playbooks arent free devices that are being handed out to everybody with a hand out. We paid for them.... and the consumer has a right to demand what he wants, or, at least expect what he was told he was getting.

    If a customer in Mcdonalds paid for a full meal and all the restaraunt owner offers is the french fries and a list of reasons why the burger and soda werent included, should the customer just shut up and take the loss and understand "the cooks are working very hard", especially when burger king right down the road has the full menu available? No, Mcdonald's has failed on their end of the business agreement, and competition is the name of the game. Its not acceptable to tell the customer who paid money for the product/service "dont judge the cooks until you walked a mile in their shoes". That proverb applies to the general everyday person that owes you nothing and you have no right to judge him. If you employ him, on the other hand...

    Incidentally, I picked Mcdonald's and Burgerking's names at random. Dont read anything into that, I could have just as easily swapped the names.
    That would apply if you walked into the retail store and ordered a PB and OS 2 update. But that's not what happened. We all purchased them with a 1.0 OS loaded on.

    Sure, they promised. And yes, they missed the deadline. But it wasn't in your contract, is all I'm saying...
    cathulu15 likes this.
    01-24-12 11:49 PM
  20. jafobabe's Avatar
    I'm such a romantic.... if it COULD come early, I'd like it on Feb 14th! It would be my only Valentine's Day Present...
    alan510 likes this.
    01-24-12 11:50 PM
  21. cathulu15's Avatar
    well i bought my playbook under the expectation of an os2 upgrade in feb, and that it will fix a lot of stuff. the salespeople mentioned that to me and a whole lot of others.

    that some folks are ok with what they got on the sale date, that rim owes them nothing and they like getting the shaft is better left unsaid... they are either with us or against us.
    Last edited by cathulu15; 01-25-12 at 12:43 AM.
    01-25-12 12:34 AM
  22. pmccartney's Avatar
    REALLY?!! wow your naivety astounds me! so they don't owe you a properly working PB, they don't owe you to keep thier promises of specific release dates, they don't owe you a warranty if the PB brakes due to bad workmanship? REALLY? oooook...

    whether you knew all the short comings or not, they still OWE you an obligation to honor their warranty and product, also to keep their promises of when they will fix said problems and release dates of the new OS 2.0.. the mentality of oh well I traded my hard earned cash for a product then it doesn't matter if the product brakes 2/3/4 months down the road or apps don't work or wifi doesn't work keeps disconnecting but hey they don't owe me nothing.... C'MOOON! gimme a break! you way of thinking is TOTALLY UNREALISTIC sorry but I for one think they owe me...
    You have every right to your opinion of how the PB does or doesn't meet your expectations from RIM, as do the rest of us.

    My PB works. The apps work. The wi-fi and bridge always works.
    I did say something, previously, to the effect that I will enjoy the update but it has nothing to do with PIM. I'm more interested in some of the other new features that were never promised.

    So what, I don't share your opinion. Am I supposed to be unsatisfied and think RIM owes me more simply because you say so? No, I don't think so.
    Last edited by pmccartney; 01-25-12 at 07:59 AM.
    01-25-12 07:57 AM
  23. djnshores's Avatar
    REALLY?!! wow your naivety astounds me! so they don't owe you a properly working PB, they don't owe you to keep thier promises of specific release dates, they don't owe you a warranty if the PB brakes due to bad workmanship? REALLY? oooook...

    whether you knew all the short comings or not, they still OWE you an obligation to honor their warranty and product, also to keep their promises of when they will fix said problems and release dates of the new OS 2.0.. the mentality of oh well I traded my hard earned cash for a product then it doesn't matter if the product brakes 2/3/4 months down the road or apps don't work or wifi doesn't work keeps disconnecting but hey they don't owe me nothing.... C'MOOON! gimme a break! you way of thinking is TOTALLY UNREALISTIC sorry but I for one think they owe me...
    Whoa! I'm not talking about a warranty issue. The warranty spells out the legal remedy for a defective product. The PB I have is NOT a defective product and I am sure OS 2.0 is not a warranty issue. The operating system is NOT defective. It works as advertised and that is all anyone can expect.

    If the PB came with OS 2.0 and didn't function properly, that would be a warranty issue.

    I read the reviews and knew it didn't do some of the things I wanted, like being able to check my Outlook email. I also read OS 2.0 was going to address some of the other shortcomings too. RIM owes me nothing at this point except to honor their warranty.
    01-25-12 08:42 AM
  24. silversun10's Avatar
    yes, but isn't it too late for early?
    01-25-12 08:48 AM
  25. djnshores's Avatar
    well i bought my playbook under the expectation of an os2 upgrade in feb, and that it will fix a lot of stuff. the salespeople mentioned that to me and a whole lot of others.

    that some folks are ok with what they got on the sale date, that rim owes them nothing and they like getting the shaft is better left unsaid... they are either with us or against us.
    The key word is "expectations". "Get it in writing" and "read the fine print" apply here! RIM owes no more or no less than what is in the contract (warranty).
    cntrydncr223 likes this.
    01-25-12 08:49 AM
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