[anson1331]

so i side-loaded the Google Map application.. and the GPS works really well! Of course, you need to wifi to render the maps and information... but then when you leave the house.. it detects your location really well and most importantly, IT WORKS WITHOUT WIFI! <3 wow, it's not like my ipod touch where it finds your location because you're connected to a wifi network. SO PEOPLE, you don't need to wifi to use the GPS. Just make sure you render the map at home or where there is internet available before so the GPS can point where you are on the map. WOW I LOVE MY PLAYBOOK EVER SINCE I REALIZED THIS....

[Pegon_Fighter]

really ye??

[anson1331]

it works better outside to begin with... cause it uses satellites i think.. instead of finding out which wireless network you're connected to.

[Erandhawa]

GPS and wifi are two different things. Wifi only helps get a signal faster since it uses the internet to find the satellites quicker group software but each component is independent. Even your phones GPS works without wifi.

[VanCity778]

I can't wait to try it next time i go 4x4ing

Thanks

[JeffyPooh]

Global Positioning System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Magnesus]

Every GPS works without WiFi. AGPS = ASSISTED GPS. It uses WiFi or 3G to download satellite data faster (from GPS it takes a few minutes first time).

[anson1331]

haha i feel like a caveman now... well when i try to find my current location with my ipod touch.. it finds it instantly with WiFi, and won't work without wifi. so i thought you could only find your location through wifi or 3g,4g, LTE, or a network :/

[varunsain]

why does playbook need so much time to connect gps? phone connects much quicker
?

[VerryBestr]

why does playbook need so much time to connect gps? phone connects much quicker

Because the phone uses AGPS (Assisted GPS) -- a phone can use cell tower triangulation and tables of known WiFi networks to approximate a position. The PlayBook uses only satellite signals.

The Wikipedia link posted by JeffyPooh explains that it takes 12 and a half minutes for a GPS satellite to transmit its entire info block (at the very slow rate of 50 bits per second). Consumer grade GPS receivers must receive a critical part of this block from at least four visible satellites.

Since a satellite signal can be lost (if the satellite goes behind a building or tree, or if it descends out of sight), this can take a while. As many posters have noted, to get an initial position, it's best to leave the PlayBook out in the open for a half hour or so. Once it has located itself, the PB can get subsequent position fixes more rapidly.

[Angus_CB]

why does playbook need so much time to connect gps? phone connects much quicker?

All GPS only receivers take a long time to get the initial location but the result is more accurate than assisted GPS.

[JeffyPooh]

It must be mentioned that the PlayBook GPS (even after OS 2) is still not quite up to the performance levels provided by many other gadgets.

There are often arguments where some report that their PlayBook's GPS "works perfectly", but they may fail to realize that their chosen software is accessing WiFi and or bridging to their BB phone. Or they happen to live under a roof that's transparent to L-band signals.

The PlayBook is the only recent gadget where the GPS advice includes going outside into a field, away from trees and buildings (and tall grass?), and (holding it just so...) give the PlayBook up to 15 minutes to lock on.

SiRF StarFire III levels of GPS performance? Not so much. The PlayBook is at least 10dB worse RF performance than that.

This info is intended to help people understand what's going on so they don't waste their time troubleshooting what are actually inherent design characteristics.

[JeffyPooh]

All GPS only receivers ... more accurate than assisted GPS.

AGPS is intended to be faster, and the initial cell phone "triangulation" (sic) can be wildly inaccurate, but the final AGPS fix should be exactly the same as a GPS-only fix. The assist process should not reduce the final GPS solution accuracy.

[Chaddface]

It must be mentioned that the PlayBook GPS (even after OS 2) is still not quite up to the performance levels provided by many other gadgets.

There are often arguments where some report that their PlayBook's GPS "works perfectly", but they may fail to realize that their chosen software is accessing WiFi and or bridging to their BB phone. Or they happen to live under a roof that's transparent to L-band signals.

The PlayBook is the only recent gadget where the GPS advice includes going outside into a field, away from trees and buildings (and tall grass?), and (holding it just so...) give the PlayBook up to 15 minutes to lock on.

SiRF StarFire III levels of GPS performance? Not so much. The PlayBook is at least 10dB worse RF performance than that.

This info is intended to help people understand what's going on so they don't waste their time troubleshooting what are actually inherent design characteristics.

I have used many GPS programs it doesn't seem as though any use assisted GPS. Do have any evidence to the contrary?

If I go into my basement I will never get a signal even though I'm bridged and standing next to the router. Fortunately I know my way around the basement so it hasn't been much of an issue.

[Angus_CB]

AGPS is intended to be faster, and the initial cell phone "triangulation" (sic) can be wildly inaccurate, but the final AGPS fix should be exactly the same as a GPS-only fix. The assist process should not reduce the final GPS solution accuracy.

Yes, the final fix is just as accurate because the final fix is using GPS satellite data.
The initial fix using AGPS is not as accurate but faster. It essentially gives the customer the impression that a GPS fix is faster. Kind of like how a splash screen makes you feel like an app is loading faster.

[JeffyPooh]

I have used many GPS programs it doesn't seem as though any use assisted GPS. Do have any evidence to the contrary?

My post, the one you quoted, was not about Assisted GPS. My post stated "accessing WiFi and or bridging to their BB phone".

My post, the one you quoted, did not mention "assisted" at all.

The PlayBook Poynt app does exactly as I mentioned. It can use WiFi and it can be paired to one's BB phone. On previous GPS threads, the Poynt app has caused confusion to the GPS performance issue exactly as I've described.

Lack of attention to such details causes confusion and is unhelpful. It can mislead lurkers into thinking that *their* PB is defective. This can waste colossal amounts of time.

[JeffyPooh]

...know my way around the basement so it hasn't been much of an issue.

As with many gadgets, sometimes we just want to play them while resting inside. Most of my GPS gadgets, in their pure unassisted GPS mode, can receive GPS even while I'm inside. Many of these gadgets use SiRF chipsets with outstanding sensitivity and state-of-the-art TTFL.

The PlayBook's GPS RF performance is substandard. By comparison, it's deaf, slow, and stupid.

[conix67]

As with many gadgets, sometimes we just want to play them while resting inside. Most of my GPS gadgets, in their pure unassisted GPS mode, can receive GPS even while I'm inside. Many of these gadgets use SiRF chipsets with outstanding sensitivity and state-of-the-art TTFL.

The PlayBook's GPS RF performance is substandard. By comparison, it's deaf, slow, and stupid.

Just like most dedicated portable GPS devices. I've had colleagues bring their Garmins on business trips and they were next to useless at least for first half hour or so. We ended up relying on iPhones for GPS. It does take a very long time for these devices (non-AGPS) to lock onto enough satellites to determine exact coordinates.

Yeah, for a portable devices like PB, A-GPS would be more suitable.

[dugggggg]

I'm pretty sure I never had to wait over twelve minutes for the initial fix on my PB's GPS. That would have been a well-remembered eternity. Nor did I ever have to stand in a grassless field holding the unit a certain way. It works just fine here, sitting in my chair---inside.

However, I do almost always use the bridge (and seldom use WiFi). Is it possible the PB uses cell tower location to speed up the acquisition process when bridged?

My PB was built just about a year ago. Could RIM later have used a different GPS chip, one that does not perform as well?

[howarmat]

Playbooks GPS has been less than steller from the beginning. I do think they made software improvements over the different OS upgrades though.

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...1868-a-611226/

[peter9477]

dugggggg, apparently the cell phone via bridge is not used in that way. I can't confirm or deny the possibility, but was told it does not.

As for the GPS chip, no chance of that. There's only ever been one chip for that, the WL 1283 (WiLink 7) from TI, which handles all the wireless stuff in the PlayBook.

[dugggggg]

I'll be relocating about 300mi away next month. Hopefully that's enough separation to nullify the almanac. I'll first try it unbridged, then restart if it takes more than three minutes for What's Up to acquire. Then I'll repeat it, bridged, but with GPS off on the cell phone. Then bridged with GPS on. Finally, I'll repeat the whole series using Bing Maps. Maybe it has a way of helping the GPS---such as downloading the almanac via the internet.

[JeffyPooh]

I've not even powered-on my Garmin nuvi 760 portable car GPS for months, ever since I got the new E class last summer with built in Nav.

My Garmin 760 is the version with the SiRF technology (these details matter). Just using the brand name "Garmin" without being specific is not useful as a comparison; their cheaper or older models were not very good.

I powered up the Garmin at 15m past and it achieved first lock at 18m past. About three minutes. This with me sitting inside in a location where the PlayBook rarely even detects a GPS signal.

It's certainly a case of Your Mileage May Vary. But there's not supposed to be any difference between one PlayBook and another.

There certainly seems to be strong evidence that the PlayBook's GPS implementation does not provide state-of-the-art RF performance. Thus the stickied thread that provides the advice about standing outside for 15 minutes, etc.

There's a fine line between reporting that the PB GPS seems to work okay in your situation; versus giving misleading information denying that any such issue exists, thus leading others to believe that their particular PlayBook is defective.

[Double_J75]

While I am unhappy with bing maps and how long it takes to find me I will say I recently bought a Garmin GPS unit. Right out of the box it wouldn't find me. The entire drive home (15min) it still didn't find me. I updated the maps and tried again. I sat in my drive way for a very very long time. I'd guess 15-20min before it found me. I was about to smash into the ground.

Anyway I took it to Orlando with me so I wouldn't have to use my Blackberry.
Again it wouldn't find me despite trying for close to an hour. I was driving at the time and got F'ing lost coming out of the airport. Finally I pulled over because I was tired of going around through the damn toll booths and waited. Within 5minutes of sitting on the shoulder it found me.
I again had the same problem when we flew home. The GPS wouldn't lock on for a very long time.

Long story but if the PB has the same unassisted GPS then they should reconsider that in future revisions because it is frustrating.

[dugggggg]

There's a fine line between reporting that the PB GPS seems to work okay in your situation; versus giving misleading information denying that any such issue exists, thus leading others to believe that their particular PlayBook is defective.

By the same token, there's a fine line between reporting that the PB GPS doesn't seem to work okay in your situation; versus giving misleading information generalizing that all PlayBooks are "substandard, deaf, slow, and stupid".