[chaosdivine]

Do you think we should just forgive and forget? If this was personal, sure, no problem. This is business and it cost me money. You bet I wont forget. I trusted a company to fulfill its promise and it did not. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I've had this happen twice so the shame is on me. I have an ability to pick dead end companies I suppose - both HP TouchPad (webOS 3.05) and now with the PlayBook (BB OS 7 and Tablet OS 2). Both HP and BlackBerry screwed me. As a result, I won't buy any HP products or BlackBerry products ever again and I make sure those I am in contact with know the history too and spread the word.

The thing is, once this PlayBook fiasco happened, I finally installed Android on the TouchPad (luckily this tablet keeps on giving) and am now using it quite often. Right now it's a 60% - 40% love/hate relationship. Love the fact that I have a new app ecosystem to go to and that the old tablet has a LOT of life left in her. But the other 40% of the time, I hate the UI of Android (very limited gesture swiping and exiting apps is a total PITA) and a lot of the web browsers are pure junk too (crash often, stupid UI issues like removing or hiding buttons). I have also discovered that there is a 50 app limit on the emulated SDCard in Cyanogen Mod 9 (Android 4.0.4) too which I wasn't expecting. If you go over moving 50 apps to the SDCard, it unmounts itself and you sort of lose everything though you can get it back with workarounds but it's unnerving to say the least. I mean, I am very grateful for the Cyanogen Mod folks for working hard on this stuff for free because otherwise I'd be SOL (like I am with BlackBerry) but it's not a bed of roses with that OS either. Anyhow something is better than nothing that's for sure...

Now, having true Android 4.3 is something I most likely won't get to experience for quite sometime until I buy new devices. But, to be honest, I don't have a need for any more tablets for a long time yet (at least until wireless HDMI [Miracast] becomes mainstream in more devices. I could upgrade to Cyanogen Mod 10 (or 10.1 or beyond) but they have no BlueTooth drivers working as of today on my TouchPad and I see that as being pretty important for me.

Anyhow, I'm just blabbing...but I would suggest that PlayBook upgraders take a long hard look at Android and I'd even go so far as to suggest NOT buying a new Nexus 7 either at this point in time unless you absolutely have to. Yes, that's right, skip it for the time being. The reason being is that there are tablets over in China sporting wireless Miracast support and they're slowing catching on over here (there are competing technologies already out there but it seems that Miracast stuff is winning out). Wireless display tethering is kind of a big deal and you'll be wanting it really badly once you see it work (go watch some YouTube videos on it). So any tablet you buy from here on out should most definitely have this kind of capability or you'll be looking at cumbersome dongles, hacks or workarounds. There are Miracast dongles in production too to turn your TV's into Smart TV's (the Google Chromecast is sort of similar but it's NOT using the same technology exactly...it will give you and idea of what's possible anyhow).

That's my advice, take it or leave it. But definitely research technologies that are coming down the pipe or else you'll be wishing you'd waited to ditch your PlayBooks so fast for a new Nexus 7.

BIG TIME UPDATE REGARDING MIRACAST AND NEXUS 7's: You Nexus 7 folks might want to read this thread I just discovered: http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=2348991 so perhaps what I just said was too premature in my suggestion over skipping the Nexus 7's...interesting to see how this plays out. Looks like it may just be the go to tablet.

Also this article: http://www.pocketables.com/2013/07/m...Pocketables%29

[Tazos]

Could be.... Thats the sad part is that I, and am sure many others, did have a LOT of skin in the game and STILL we decided to fold because it was clear there was no way to win now. It takes a special kind of company to bring you to that extreme.

So its a case of having too much skin in the game to fold?

[Kevin Walker6]

Could be.... Thats the sad part is that I, and am sure many others, did have a LOT of skin in the game and STILL we decided to fold because it was clear there was no way to win now. It takes a special kind of company to bring you to that extreme.

You keep blaming Blackberry, as though you made no conscious decisions that led to your own dissatisfaction. everyone oversells, and most under-deliver. You have to manage your risk and when you decide to make a high risk play, you can't blame the dealer for letting you make the bet. When Blackberry released a tablet that had no native support for email or PIM, everyone should have been very leery of the future of the platform, if for no other reason than the realization that this tablet was designed solely for owners of Blackberry phones (which reveals a ridiculously high degree of hubris on the part of the executive team). Seriously, did you not question the offer? Existing Blackberry customers were expected to use the Playbook as an extension of their phone. New Blackberry customers were expected to buy both a new phone and a new tablet! The reasoning here has "72 hour psych hold" written all over it!

I own 3 tablets, none of which were purchased before the 2nd generation. I have an iPod Touch 4 that i bought used. What all my devices have in common is I purchased them based on what they could do NOW, and not on the promise of future capabilities.

[Tazos]

You keep blaming Blackberry, as though you made no conscious decisions that led to your own dissatisfaction. everyone oversells, and most under-deliver. You have to manage your risk and when you decide to make a high risk play, you can't blame the dealer for letting you make the bet. When Blackberry released a tablet that had no native support for email or PIM, everyone should have been very leery of the future of the platform, if for no other reason than the realization that this tablet was designed solely for owners of Blackberry phones (which reveals a ridiculously high degree of hubris on the part of the executive team). Seriously, did you not question the offer? Existing Blackberry customers were expected to use the Playbook as an extension of their phone. New Blackberry customers were expected to buy both a new phone and a new tablet! The reasoning here has "72 hour psych hold" written all over it!

I own 3 tablets, none of which were purchased before the 2nd generation. I have an iPod Touch 4 that i bought used. What all my devices have in common is I purchased them based on what they could do NOW, and not on the promise of future capabilities.

When you have a company (dealer, as you called it in your example) that had a certain degree of credibility you make the choice to support the company in no way intending your support to be high risk. Did I question the offer? No. At that time I and many other people had no reason to question the offer. Would I question it now after BB has given us the shaft? Most definitely. You see, they went from a "low risk" company that a user could trust to an extremely high risk company that many of us have decided not to keep supporting. Of course I blame BB. I would blame myself too if I kept on supporting them after this fiasco.

[jmh11]

As frustrated as i am with BB i do continue to remind myself of how the Playbook has served me. 1-1/2 years ago when Playbook 2.0 came out Android was far from where it is today. Android Tablets were marginal quality and the OS needed significant improvement. Playbook with 2.0+ presented a great alternative and was a 7" tablet. When BB10 hit on Feb 2012, i think i speak for many of us, we saw potential that our aging Playbooks might catch up to iSO and Android and we would all get a freebie BB10 device. Reality check too us all....
As we all continue to rant and seek clairvoyance as to what is the best next step lets not forget how well we have been served by our Playbooks. I continue to carry it with me daily for work and rely on it for file access, email collaboration, scheduling meeting, shared internet bridged to my Torch, and high resolution presentations using either HDMI or HDMI to VGA cables.. At home i easily stream HBOGO and many other entertainment sources directly to my 60" plasma. We may not have access to every game on Google play but we have a few good games from Blackberry or side loaded. Playbook works great as an e-reader and the Browser can surf most web sites quickly and error free.
Nexus & looks good however who knows what will hit the market in the coming months...
I own a Playbook... i'm patient!

[Kevin Walker6]

When you have a company (dealer, as you called it in your example) that had a certain degree of credibility you make the choice to support the company in no way intending your support to be high risk. Did I question the offer? No. At that time I and many other people had no reason to question the offer. Would I question it now after BB has given us the shaft? Most definitely. You see, they went from a "low risk" company that a user could trust to an extremely high risk company that many of us have decided not to keep supporting. Of course I blame BB. I would blame myself too if I kept on supporting them after this fiasco.

I'm sorry, but there was nothing low risk about the initial Playbook offer. Requiring tethering to gain access to email and contacts was a clear message that the Playbook was useless without a Blackberry phone, making it the most expensive peripheral in the history of PIM devices and one of the best bluffs in history. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Caveat Emptor was not suspended just because BB had never bluffed before.

The only other error in judgment that comes anywhere close to that bad decision by Blackberry was Apple deciding it was ready to replace Google Maps at a standard app with one of their own, which led to Google getting what they wanted all along: the new ad revenue stream generated by users of voice navigation.

[Dirtymike14]

Review the differences between the Full Windows and the RT Windows tablets. The RT has fewer apps, kind of like the pb. The full runs regular windows programs.

Oh I didn't know there was a difference, thanks for the heads up!

My z10 is a Leafs fan

[Tazos]

Oh I didn't know there was a difference, thanks for the heads up!

My z10 is a Leafs fan

Yes. Big BIG difference between the RT and full version.

[offyoutoddle]

Yes. Big BIG difference between the RT and full version.

curiously no one complains so much about the difference between ios and osx. Bad marketing has made people look on the surface RT's plus points as downsides is all that has happened here. Trust me, if you get a chance to try a surface RT, you might be surprised. At the very least it is the most productive work horse tablet that was ever made yet, with great battery life and the only full office suite on the market I know of.

The Surface pro brings greater heat, weight and battery drain for just 1 advantage - ability to run windows legacy apps. This is an advantage that is removed by the Surface RT's remote desktop capablity, which renders it as the best thin client to a home desktop if you have such a capability at home (which I do so no need for a surface pro here). Battery life is great.

This is a blackberry board and I'm not going to bang this drum too loud, only to offer the benefit of my happy 'life after playbook' experience, but that is the general thrust of this thread so honestly, as a replacement for my playbook, which I am sure many are now considering, it has already delivered far more than RIM/Blackberrry did with the playbook. I hope you all can find something that meets your needs as much as this does for me also.

Now if they get the bridge working as it used to again with full BBM and sms access, I might just put the surface down sometime!

[tphp]

I own 3 tablets, none of which were purchased before the 2nd generation. I have an iPod Touch 4 that i bought used. What all my devices have in common is I purchased them based on what they could do NOW, and not on the promise of future capabilities.

Who would want to spend money on a device that has no longevity? What you seem to be forgetting is that at the time, RIM promised software updates and a future for the platform, why would anyone have any reason to doubt them at the time? What BlackBerry still don't get is that customer expectations have changed, years ago you bought a RAZR or some other phone and you accepted it how it was, but since the advent of the modern smartphone market it's generally expected that you will be getting some kind of software updates for the 2 year life of your device at least. BlackBerry is of course not the only company with this kind of issue (*cough* HTC) but it's things like this that in part help keep devices like the iPhone at the top, because you know that your device will get at least one, if not two major OS refreshes. It establishes confidence in the customer that they're not just going to be dumped along the way, and sadly BlackBerry is still making a hash of it even today. It's not at all unreasonable to expect a company to fulfill the potential of the devices it sells because the standard in the market has been raised to such a level that it's warranted.

The PlayBook was meant to be the start of a new BlackBerry, new platform, new attitude, customers believed them, sadly they were fooled. If a company cannot keep it's promises they shouldn't lead customers on. It's not the customers fault they got a dead end device, it's BlackBerry's lies.

[FF22]

Who would want to spend money on a device that has no longevity? What you seem to be forgetting is that at the time, RIM promised software updates and a future for the platform, why would anyone have any reason to doubt them at the time? What BlackBerry still don't get is that customer expectations have changed, years ago you bought a RAZR or some other phone and you accepted it how it was, but since the advent of the modern smartphone market it's generally expected that you will be getting some kind of software updates for the 2 year life of your device at least. BlackBerry is of course not the only company with this kind of issue (*cough* HTC) but it's things like this that in part help keep devices like the iPhone at the top, because you know that your device will get at least one, if not two major OS refreshes. It establishes confidence in the customer that they're not just going to be dumped along the way, and sadly BlackBerry is still making a hash of it even today. It's not at all unreasonable to expect a company to fulfill the potential of the devices it sells because the standard in the market has been raised to such a level that it's warranted.

The PlayBook was meant to be the start of a new BlackBerry, new platform, new attitude, customers believed them, sadly they were fooled. If a company cannot keep it's promises they shouldn't lead customers on. It's not the customers fault they got a dead end device, it's BlackBerry's lies.

Very well stated. Thanks.

[wtz11]

iPad. Unless you are a hardcore anti-apple person, I believe the iPad is a great tablet. I have had an iPad 2 since it was released, still get all the best apps and updates. It is a great choice in my opinion.

[anon(4044683)]

I used to be a hardcore apple hater until I realized it was stupid to hate or love a tech company. I was a loyal BB user I trusted BB on PlayBook but the end of the day I had to buy an iPad simply because it works well and BB changed the focus to smartphones. Now I do not love or hate any company. I just want enjoy the latest technology. I love my Z10, my iPad is serving me great. I use my Android phone for apps. Poor PlayBook received only false promises, it never got a chance to show its true potential.

iPad. Unless you are a hardcore anti-apple person, I believe the iPad is a great tablet. I have had an iPad 2 since it was released, still get all the best apps and updates. It is a great choice in my opinion.

[Harley Kid]

There's the rub: I would never buy an overpriced house in the desert without air conditioning. I would wait until the air conditioning was installed and that I had a chance to verify that it was functioning properly. If later on eye realized that the house turned out not to be a wise investment, even with the air conditioning, I would look to cut my losses and find another house that better suit my needs.

Unfortunately, those of us who DID buy a play book, wound up holding the bag containing one overpriced home and a handful of empty promises. Not that I have intentions of parting with my PB, but I was very interested in getting BB10 on a device I already owned prior to spending more for another round of hollow words and empty promises.