11-06-12 11:15 AM
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  1. notfanboy's Avatar
    Thanks. Even last years numbers are a little different than what I had.
    Now Microsoft, Blackberry and any other OS are fighting over 2% of the market.
    It is becoming clear though that Microsoft will start to steal market share from iPad and Android. It is interesting to speculate where things will be a year from now.
    In the past year, Android grew by 12% while iOS slipped by 12%. The introduction of Microsoft into the mix will not change the direction of the trend, but will affect the speed. Surface will affect iOS marketshare more, because they are both in the premium market. Android growth will slow down, but will continue to gain market share because of the low prices. There are no indications that RIM can go beyond that 2% niche in the tablet space.
    11-02-12 06:20 AM
  2. Matt J's Avatar
    Make no mistake that the iPad created the tablet market, however, people will eventually converge on one device for all purposes. Even though iPad has a billion apps, most are useless and duplicates. People with iPads and PlayBook have other devices because they have to. The Surface will end that.

    When companies start handing our Surface tablets for their employees ....and they eventually will... That will be the critical mass. I fully expect my next round of laptop upgrade to have a Surface option....I work on a college campus.
    11-02-12 06:26 AM
  3. cgk's Avatar
    The only way they got to the 2% was via a write-off and heavy discounting - nothing indicates that consumers will pay a premium price for a BB tablet thus it has no uniqueness (in the strategic rather than product sense of the word).
    11-02-12 06:30 AM
  4. notfanboy's Avatar
    So it's better for it not to be there at all than to be there and be fully functional? It makes video calls, voice calls and supports 95% of the desktop app features. I find your argument to be utterly RIDICULOUS! So Skype isn't a great experience because it isn't 100% on par feature-to-feature with the win32 client?

    Finally, 'Android' is not a device. if Skype call quality was not awesome on ONE Android tablet you tried, why try to paint a picture of the app being 'unreliable and unstable' across all android devices?
    LOL rkennedy01 has a history of making those kinds of generalizations.
    11-02-12 06:32 AM
  5. rkennedy01's Avatar
    LOL rkennedy01 has a history of making those kinds of generalizations.
    And you have a history of inane comments. But thanks for playing...

    RCK
    11-02-12 06:45 AM
  6. rkennedy01's Avatar
    So it's better for it not to be there at all than to be there and be fully functional? It makes video calls, voice calls and supports 95% of the desktop app features. I find your argument to be utterly RIDICULOUS! So Skype isn't a great experience because it isn't 100% on par feature-to-feature with the win32 client?

    Finally, 'Android' is not a device. if Skype call quality was not awesome on ONE Android tablet you tried, why try to paint a picture of the app being 'unreliable and unstable' across all android devices?
    95%? More like 50%. Please tell me how to change/configure my voice greeting under Skype for Android. Or the ring count before defaulting to voicemail. Or any of the myriad other features that I take for granted with Skype running under Windows.

    Skype for Android is a joke - and this coming from someone who spent several months using nothing but Skype + an Android tab while in the U.S. recently. I ended up having to borrow my daughter's laptop just to make and receive calls reliably, the Android experience was THAT BAD.

    And as for call quality, this is a Skype issue, not a tablet-specific issue. As is the lack of proper headset support, which is a deficiency of the OS and its incomplete implementation of the Hands Free profile (i.e. it supports audio output but not input/microphone functions).

    Bottom Line: When I can fully utilize the range of Skype features that I've PAID FOR, without the assistance of a traditional PC, I'll consider Skype to be "available" on Android. Until then, what you pull down from Google Play today is nothing but a "companion" app that sort of lets you use a subset of Skype features in a buggy, unstable way. Anyone who makes a purchase decision in favor of Android based on this "capability" is a complete moron.

    I was actually looking forward to using Skype when I first fired-up a Galaxy Tab 10.1 back in November, 2011. What was available then was absolute garbage, and now I see that nothing's really changed in a year. The only platforms that seem to get properly supported are Windows and iOS, and even RT users are getting the shaft since the feature set there is no better than for Android.

    RCK
    11-02-12 07:08 AM
  7. notfanboy's Avatar
    Skype for Android is a joke - and this coming from someone who spent several months using nothing but Skype + an Android tab while in the U.S. recently. I ended up having to borrow my daughter's laptop just to make and receive calls reliably, the Android experience was THAT BAD.
    I'm not a big user of Skype myself, since I find Google Hangouts to be superior, however Skype has a rating of 4.0/5.0 stars on the Google Play Store. There are many people unhappy with it, rkennedy being one of them, but there are a many more who are satisfied. Since it's a FREE app, users can always try it out to see if it fits their needs.

    As is the lack of proper headset support, which is a deficiency of the OS and its incomplete implementation of the Hands Free profile (i.e. it supports audio output but not input/microphone functions).
    False. This is a ridiculous claim.
    11-02-12 07:27 AM
  8. rkennedy01's Avatar
    False. This is a ridiculous claim.
    OK, prove me wrong. Hook-up a Bluetooth headset to your SGIII, fire-up Skype, and use the headset to make a VOIP call.

    Doesn't work (no microphone support). Period.

    Believe me, I wish it did...I hate having to haul a laptop with me everywhere just to make Skype calls.

    RCK
    11-02-12 07:32 AM
  9. notfanboy's Avatar
    OK, prove me wrong. Hook-up a Bluetooth headset to your SGIII, fire-up Skype, and use the headset to make a VOIP call.

    Doesn't work (no microphone support). Period.

    Believe me, I wish it did...I hate having to haul a laptop with me everywhere just to make Skype calls.

    RCK
    I find it really funny how confidently you make these assertions that are so easily proven wrong. Make a bet?

    I made such a call just last week. I could be inspired to spend 15 minutes over the weekend to create a video, however I'm hoping some other posters will chime in to back up my claim.
    11-02-12 07:43 AM
  10. mggr's Avatar
    I don't think its dead after Windows 8 RT.

    My son got a surface a couple of days ago and regardless of what reviews say etc there is nothing like first hand experience. Has the same build quality feeling as the Playbook...and it will be my next tablet.

    I'll keep my playbook for what it does well, but the surface is a different beast, you can't compare oranges and apples, you can't believe every review, else none of us would have a Playbook. One thing I've seen over the years is Microsoft takes note of feedback from its customers. Take the xbox, generation 1, okay, far from perfect...todays 360, its up there as a market leader. They get things wrong, but eventually with their resources if they want to pursue something, they get it right. I'm impressed by their hardware, feels right, works right... it will get my hard earn cash soon.
    11-02-12 08:02 AM
  11. bitek's Avatar
    This bullcrap needs to end now. Windows 8 is stable, runs better in Desktop mode than Windows 7 and comes with many enhancements out the gate. it is BETTER than Windows 7.

    Upgrade fees are cheap enough...the major change between 8 and 7 is the addition of the Metro mode and removal of the Start button. Simply install start8 software and you'll bypass Metro entirely and be left with a desktop mode with a start menu that is visibly better than Windows 7.

    Any 'power user' that claims to be put off Windows 8 is not deserving of that title.

    Attachment 124425

    Start8 boots directly to the desktop and brings back the Start button. Just for $4.99!

    TLDR; Windows 8 > Windows 7. If metro is not your thing, install Start8 and get a better desktop experience.
    I like that there is no start button anymore. desktop look cleaner. i like metro solution.
    11-02-12 08:29 AM
  12. rkennedy01's Avatar
    I find it really funny how confidently you make these assertions that are so easily proven wrong. Make a bet?

    I made such a call just last week. I could be inspired to spend 15 minutes over the weekend to create a video, however I'm hoping some other posters will chime in to back up my claim.
    FACT: Through version 4.1.1 (the last I tested), Android does not properly support microphone input via a Bluetooth headset for Skype VOIP calls. Because if it did, I'd be using it. But it doesn't, so you're either delusional or a liar.

    A cursory search of Google comes up with all sorts of interesting threads on the topic. For example, this one from the Skype support forums:

    Bluetooth headset with Skype, on Android devices - Skype Support Network

    Or perhaps this one:

    Android Bluetooth Feedback - Skype Support Network

    I've tried 4 different headsets/earpieces/devices - Jawbone Icon, Jawbone Jambox, Motorola S-10HD and an el-cheapo Insignia set from Best Buy. NONE of them work - they relay the audio output but fail to pick anything up from the mic.

    So, again, prove me wrong - initiate a Skype call, using your BT headset as the only audio input/output mechanism, and do another one of your infamouse BS videos. Or you can just STFU. Because, like it or not, you're not the only one here with Android experience.

    RCK
    Last edited by rkennedy01; 11-02-12 at 08:54 AM.
    11-02-12 08:40 AM
  13. cgk's Avatar
    I've never tried using skype with BT before but I just connected my Nokia BH-111 and tried a quick test call with echo testing service - I can hear them and when It played back it had my voice on the recording.
    11-02-12 08:49 AM
  14. notfanboy's Avatar
    FACT: Through version 4.1.1 (the last I tested), Android does not properly support microphone input via a Bluetooth headset for Skype VOIP calls. Because if it did, I'd be using it. But it doesn't, so you're either delusional or a liar.

    So, again, prove me wrong - initiate a Skype call, using your BT headset as the only audio input/output mechanism, and do another one of your infamouse BS videos. Or you can just STFU. Because, like it or not, you're not the only one here with Android experience.
    So if you are so confident that I can't make a Skype call on my SGIII using my bluetooth headset for mic and audio, here's an offer. I pay you $1000 if I am unable to prove it with a video within a 2 days, and if you are proven wrong, you only have to pay me $100. I value my time and $100 will compensate me for making the video. This is a completely serious offer. We could use one of the trusted mods or posters to hold the funds in escrow. The countdown starts once we find someone willing to do the escrow.

    Unfortunately as I have learned from previous experience, you will prove to be all talk and bluster, and will go into hiding once something of actual consequence is at stake.
    11-02-12 08:56 AM
  15. rkennedy01's Avatar
    I've never tried using skype with BT before but I just connected my Nokia BH-111 and tried a quick test call with echo testing service - I can hear them and when It played back it had my voice on the recording.
    Repeat your test, only leave your phone in the next room (to eliminate its on board mic from picking up the audio).

    Again, Skype for Android works with Bluetooth audio PLAYBACK. But it doesn't pick-up your Bluetooth device's MIC and instead relies on whatever external mic is built into the phone or tablet. So, basically, there's no way to cancel out background noise and generally conduct a call in an intelligible manner outside of a very quiet room and you sitting inches from the device (i.e. defeating the purpose of BT).

    RCK
    11-02-12 08:58 AM
  16. anon1727506's Avatar
    RIM make a tablet.... who knew?


    PlayBook was DOA. Sales have shown that, reviews have shown that, the fact that RIM is almost giving them away now shows that - has nothing to do with a W8 Tablet, an Android Tablet or even an Apple Tablet. Has to do with a half baked OS that is far from what was promised, and a lack of support from developers and RIM not having a clue that their is a difference in the wants and needs of the Gov/Enterprise market and the consumer market.
    11-02-12 09:02 AM
  17. balama's Avatar
    Just my two cents

    got my surfaceRT with keyboard this week and have been using it in parallel with my work win7 ultrabook
    I also have a new chromebook on the way
    been a playbook user without bridge for about a year or so
    Started with a 16GB and quickly moved to a 64GB even got the keyboard case and all.
    been and still own a 3G ipad and just recently switched to the iphone5 LTE under verizon (would've preferred a BB under Verizon 4G LTE if they had one)
    I started out this whole adventure with a cambridge Z-88 from Ian Sinclair which I still have and feel was one of the most advanced/productive devices of this genre
    I was an avid palm pilot/handspring user as well.
    Before that, my early 80's laptop was carrying my Mac Plus home from work.

    initially i liked the 7 ' form factor and power of the playbook as I had been a blackberry user for a while starting with the first blue BB voicestream/t-mobile released working my way through the curve to the bold but never moved to the new fangled touch screen and slideout versions which seemed to be buggy.
    The keypoint of a blackberry is it's secure messaging capability, in fact i don't believe there's another device that is better at handling messaging at an enterprise level than a blackberry.
    Unfortunately the world of marketing, primarily apple, has convinced the mass market that it needs more and with the invention of facebook and twitter and IM, communicating has taken on a different meaning. RIM hasn't helped their cause either by not focusing on its core strength which also includes 24x7 bulletproof dependability.

    My hope for the Playbook would be that I would finally find a 1-2 lb easy to carry and hold device to replace my laptop. From a messaging standpoint the pairing of a BB phone and a BB playbook under blackberry bridge seem like a no brainer. Unfortunately most enterprises revolve around Microsoft Windows and Office in fact most enterprises are still running Windows XP like ours.
    From my experience, no tablet be it the ipad, the newer android ones or a playbook has found a way to run like a windows machine with MS office and Outlook on it like most of us use at our desks.Perhaps Office 365 and Outlook.com will be the bridge but most large enterprises are leery of moving their databases to the cloud.

    The windows tablet and windows 8 devices are the closest attempt I've seem at providing a somewhat mirror image of the desktop space in a true mobile (phone/tablet/ultrabook) environment. The RT even as handicapped as it is still way more productive for the enterprise worker with its built in windows and office features than anything else on the market. Once Webex or GoToMeeting and a Cisco VPN client become available it'll be the tablet choice of the mobile enterprise worker. In the end a 1-2lb windows pro version of the Surface or the Lenovo Slider or ASUS Iconia convertible with 14hr battery life will be the choice of most traveling enterprise workers and execs once they get past their "I got to be cool like steve" egos.

    An even more interesting concept is the Chromebook which has some things built in that an IT or IPSEC professional will love. Its a thin OS, it is always current, has built in security and doesn't retain any user data on the device. It also has gotten much better reviews that the RT devices and I hope to start testing that form factor and OS this week as well.

    I still have my chrome book and just like my Z-88 i may keep it because of its uniqueness. It mostly streams music on my desk now with the clock app and after trying to use it read my kindle books i gave up and just bought a kindle paperwhite for that purpose which works out better for late night and one handed reading.

    I think we''ll see more and more "compensation" for the overgrowth of this smart phone bubble started by the iphone, like more personal smart phones being seized or locked down in schools, enterprises, theaters, courts or any other place where pictures and access to push confidential info or receive info like test answers are a risk or nuisance. Strangely I am starting to see the resurgence of flip phones popping up for those that just need to call either because of the economy or because of phones getting burnt out on the technology.

    in the end, what ever works for works for you, there's no right answer no winner or loser, you just have to figure that out on your own when you get past the hype and use these things.
    11-02-12 09:06 AM
  18. rkennedy01's Avatar
    So if you are so confident that I can't make a Skype call on my SGIII using my bluetooth headset for mic and audio, here's an offer. I pay you $1000 if I am unable to prove it with a video within a 2 days, and if you are proven wrong, you only have to pay me $100. I value my time and $100 will compensate me for making the video. This is a completely serious offer. We could use one of the trusted mods or posters to hold the funds in escrow. The countdown starts once we find someone willing to do the escrow.

    Unfortunately as I have learned from previous experience, you will prove to be all talk and bluster, and will go into hiding once something of actual consequence is at stake.
    You mean when I rope-a-doped you into challenging me to reproduce my own scenario on the PB and then went and video recorded it for all to see?

    And please note: This time there's literally gigabits of web traffic about this VERY issue! On Skype's own support forums! All saying that my assertion is correct!

    So either you have a "magic" Android device that allows you to do what NO OTHER USER seems to be able to accomplish, or you really are delusional...and as my grandpappy told me long ago, "there's not point arguing with a crazy man."

    So let's take score here: Your claim to be able to do the equivalent of "walk on water" with your Android device vs. lots of very wet people who are all complaining about the same deficiency.

    Crazy nut job with a messiah complex on one side. Thoroughly washed masses on the other.

    Let the public decide.

    I think I can rest my case...

    RCK
    11-02-12 09:08 AM
  19. notfanboy's Avatar
    Repeat your test, only leave your phone in the next room (to eliminate its on board mic from picking up the audio).

    Again, Skype for Android works with Bluetooth audio PLAYBACK. But it doesn't pick-up your Bluetooth device's MIC and instead relies on whatever external mic is built into the phone or tablet. So, basically, there's no way to cancel out background noise and generally conduct a call in an intelligible manner outside of a very quiet room and you sitting inches from the device (i.e. defeating the purpose of BT).

    RCK
    This is great, I tried this just now with my phone in another room behind two closed doors. Now, I am willing to make the terms of the bet even more attractive for you. My $10000 vs your $100.
    11-02-12 09:10 AM
  20. bitek's Avatar
    CNET and Zdnet basically one, and both are the WORST tech websites on the internet. Other reviews from Anandtech, Engadget, Verge, etc... are mostly positive. Nothing is perfect... again, how many Apps did iPhone have at launch? or Playbook?

    It's actually ridicolous IMO to give a bad review to a device that doesn't have a lot of Apps on DAY-1 of a new platform launch?! Are you kidding me?
    Ofcourse it won't have as many Apps as iOS/Android. Playbook suffered the same... KEY IS, would this platform offer capabilities that others don't and are things in progress and getting better, clearly Windows 8 is just gonna get better and has amazing capabilities vs. iOS which is 5 years old and has static/dead icons vs. live tiles (or widgets in Android). iOS is seriously lacking functionality right now (BB10 will also be better), only saving grace for them is the ridicolous #of Apps!
    point is that reviews are average. execution is poor imo. mcrosoft has no excuse not to have more apps for surface. microsoft has spent 3x as much money as apple for R&D last year. you would think that surface would have more apps for launch. os8 was years in the making. i am not big fan of apple but i do agree with their assessment that win8 is confusing. average user will be confused as apps for pc windows 8 will not work on surface rt. surface pro will be fully blown pc with totally different hardware. Yet it will look same as surface rt. i think average users accustomed to windows 7 or windows Xp will have problem with windows 8 as it is different. learning curve might be too difficult for some.
    11-02-12 09:16 AM
  21. berryaddict338's Avatar
    And what about it?? Everything evolve and change wiht time... so you're telling me when apple first came with iphone wasn't different than anything out by the time?? It was differnet and people accepted and like it! And now is the second or the firt player, so why windows 8 is so different, or why is so hard for you to belive could succes?
    11-02-12 09:20 AM
  22. rkennedy01's Avatar
    This is great, I tried this just now with my phone in another room behind two closed doors. Now, I am willing to make the terms of the bet even more attractive for you. My $10000 vs your $100.
    I've got a better idea: Why don't you stop by one of the forum threads I linked to above and share your "secret sauce" with the dozens upon dozens of users who can't get it to work. I know I'm very curious to hear the exact details of how you fixed something that even Skype acknowledges is broken. What combination of headset/earpiece/device were you using? On which version of Android (exact build number please)? Using what, if any, third party software, enhancements or custom mods?

    Note: You're claiming to perform miracles. Right now there are some desperate, hungry people out there waiting to hear the revelation according to "notafanboy." This is no longer about you and me. This is about an opportunity to do a public service to potentially thousands of frustrated Android users.

    So please, let's see some of that healing in action! Show us the way! Make our mute Android devices speak!

    RCK
    11-02-12 09:45 AM
  23. notfanboy's Avatar
    What you consider "miracles" are just ordinary things that Android users take for granted.

    Telus Samsung Galaxy SIII running Android 4.0.4. No root, no mods.
    BT headset which which I bought two years ago (I'll look up the model later)
    Skype for Android 2.9.0.315

    RCK, can't you afford $100 to possiby win $10,000 USD? If I spend time making a video, there needs to be some kind of consequence to you. If your finances are that tight, I would settle for a fun consequence like changing the forum signature to acknowledge your mistake (kind of of like the ruling where Apple had to apologize to Samsung).
    11-02-12 10:03 AM
  24. bmercer94's Avatar
    I see nothing wrong with my playbook, the integration with the BB phone is something that i love, it feels sturdy in hand, smooth, the bezel actions make it a bit difficult to clean the screen, but that's about it. I don't have NetFlix so i don't really care that PB doesn't have it. Yes, i'm running 2.1 on my PB, i didn't even try 2.0, brought it home and installed 2.1 before doing anything. i've found no bugs.


    Then again, i'm also the guy that would prefer Vista any day over windows 7 because vista seems like more of a workhorse to me. moving files, downloading, etc is faster, whether those that skipped it because some people didn't like it agree or not. the only thing vista would need is the winkey+1/2/3/etc to open apps. that's my favorite feature of Win7.
    11-02-12 10:20 AM
  25. Bakamushi's Avatar
    So, should RIM just stop efforts on Playbook?
    What efforts ?

    You mean the mail app that can turn vertical ?
    11-02-12 10:24 AM
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