[Hirazi Blue]

Personally I don't think it's such a strong argument from the POV of the kind of "Action" we're trying to mount here.. (*)

edit + (*) the way I see it, obviously...

[WeAreNotAlone]

Personally I don't think it's such a strong argument from the POV of the kind of "Action" we're trying to mount here.. (*)

edit + (*) the way I see it, obviously...

With numbers like these, BlackBerry needs to pay attention, be responsive to customer's concerns.



With 2.9<3.1 DOLLAR WARCHEST they are sitting on and being debt free it's really a insult to the ninth degree the way they lead people on, killing the BB10 PlayBook update and PlayBook itself during a "Earnings Call".

It was known 2012-09 that Alpha Device A did not run BB10 well, IIRC.

Why did they wait 9 months (2013-06-28) during a "earnings call" to announce that BB10 performance was sub-par? That BB10 for the PlayBook was being cancelled?
Answer is so the announcement would not affect the BB10 roll-out, device sales . Waiting making it "easier' to cancel the project and the PlayBook itself (Deem device EOL)....

Waiting, gave them a "easy-out". With all the customers experiencing problems with their BB10 devices "BlackBerry" needs focusing resources on customers new to the party you know!

Another reason for "waiting" is it allowed all those old stocks of unsold PlayBooks to be sold, that previously they could hardly give away. The only reason the inventory starting moving was assurances from the CEO himself BB10 would be coming to the PlayBook.


Q: In Business you always have a plan "B", BlackBerry's plan "B" if they could not supposedly make BB10 happen on the PlayBook should be what?

Android has 80% of the market, BlackBerry 2.3% (Smartphones, I shudder to think what market share of PlayBook to Android tablets is.)

Android run-time was last updated when? Runtime is still at 2.3 and Android is @ 4.xxx, has been for about the last yr+. When you have a device in which the app selection is a JOKE, and you can "leverage" off the market leader your a ***** for not taking advantage of it.
It is no wonder the PlayBook was a COMMERCIAL FLOP.

What is the excuse for not updating the Android runtime and other issues in a timely manner?


BB10 OS the horizon=


Q: How did this affect work that needed to be done on the PB 2.xxx OS? (Early adopters saying 2.xxx was the OS the PlayBook should have been released with, it itself needing a lot of work. It being a "unfinished product".)
Q: How did BB10 on the horizon and being promised to the PlayBook affect developers?
Would YOU as a developer spend much time on anything PB 2.xxx, when BB10 was promised to the PlayBook and was on the horizon?



BB10 OS has 200 processes running while device is IDLE?

The excuse given the PB will not run BB10 is lack of ram. With 200 processes running I can see why this would be true.



If this is true, BB10 OS has 200 processes running... (and is a ram hog)

Do you announce to the world... Hey we pushed to market a unfinished OS, that is not well optimized.

We "had to" push it to market with sloppy code (hoping most don't notice),,, or don't notice in the 14-day "Buyer's Remorse Period" in which you can return the handset to the carrier...

If you do notice we will say "Hey we're working on it". (delay as long as possible, hoping you go away or do a work around)

If you really push, we will use the excuse the hold up is on the carrier's end.

***********************************

Let me see:

That's the old throw the mud against the wall and see how much sticks marketing plan.

Most won't notice small problems.
Those that do will be told, We are working on it.
Drag it out long enough and you can say with a straight face "Hey you're device is too old to fix, it's not worth our time, but Hey, on next generation models will have all that stuff fixed.

Rinse and Repeat, over and over again.


I must say Blackberry is the perfect company to be selling something with CONTRACTS attached to them. Guess this explains why they don't want to do wi-fi tablets, eh?

.

[Hirazi Blue]

@WeAreNotAlone
Your argument is clear and to an extent I agree with what you�re trying to say. No real contest there. I do however strongly feel, the only way for this crazy scheme (the drafted �Action� proposal) to work at all (which is highly unlikely at best) is an approach by which we appeal to their sense of �kindness�, for lack of a better word. We want them to do something for us, that�s outside of their current roadmap, as they have already given up on the PB and IMHO the only way to achieve this is by asking them nicely and thus not confronting them with a lot of data they should already know, which could be read as us being �aggressive� and/or making our unlikely proposal into a demand.

[bambinoitaliano]

@WeAreNotAlone
Your argument is clear and to an extent I agree with what you’re trying to say. No real contest there. I do however strongly feel, the only way for this crazy scheme (the drafted “Action” proposal) to work at all (which is highly unlikely at best) is an approach by which we appeal to their sense of “kindness”, for lack of a better word. We want them to do something for us, that’s outside of their current roadmap, as they have already given up on the PB and IMHO the only way to achieve this is by asking them nicely and thus not confronting them with a lot of data they should already know, which could be read as us being “aggressive” and/or making our unlikely proposal into a demand.

I'm not sure you can appeal any senses towards a corporate entity. Unless we have a specific person to direct the request at. Right now the ceo is busy with his own $55 million roadmap. The company is in limbo, the public relation is on hold, until BB partnering up or sold to revive it's business, I fear no amount of pleading , demand will be heard no matter what tone the letter take.

[Hirazi Blue]

Unless we have a specific person to direct the request at.

This is however what I have been saying all along. And finding such a person should become a priority already..

[bambinoitaliano]

This is however what I have been saying all along. And finding such a person should become a priority already..

Such a person no longer exist. If the ceo does not give a hoot about it. Anyone below has no say or the influence to make any decision.

[Hirazi Blue]

Well, if it's that easy, at least I can get my regular life back.
(as this has been such a demanding task)
It obviously also seems to be the easiest way out.
If we don't look, we're sure not to find.

[bambinoitaliano]

Well, if it's that easy, at least I can get my regular life back.
(as this has been such a demanding task)
It obviously also seems to be the easiest way out.
If we don't look, we're sure not to find.

For now As BB is on hold, we await for opportunity. As long as the company does not go bankrupt and sold in pieces.

[msps]

Such a person no longer exist. If the ceo does not give a hoot about it. Anyone below has no say or the influence to make any decision.

CEO doesn't own the company

[bambinoitaliano]

CEO doesn't own the company

True but he make the decisions. If Thor has no interest in keeping the playbook alive, no one can override his decision unless it involves the board of directors. At the current state of the company neither Thor nor the board of directors will give an iota of concern to the playbook.

[schwede]

Coming back to my earlier suggestion for possible recipients:
COO
Investor Relations Department

I guess these are the ones that would perhaps listen and understand but also influence others or make decisions themselves.

[msps]

That is what I meant

I'd send a CC to some tech blogs/media

[Hirazi Blue]

The only thing we could still easily salvage is the second part of my original proposal: asking them to place the default apps into "open source". This costs them next to nothing after all.

[beman39]

I'll try to keep this short. :-)

The fact BlackBerry had stated multiple times BB10 OS would be coming to the PlayBook, and that lead people on for MANY, MANY Months and then killing the PlayBook/BB10 OS update months down the road so it wouldn't affect BB10 device roll-out and sales IS a issue they need to be made aware of that will hurt BlackBerry in the long run.
It was known 2012-09 BB10 on the PlayBook was a no-go, it is very deceptive to wait till 2013-06-28 to announce during a "Earnings Call" the project, the PlayBook has been killed off.

(Going to the webpage for the PlayBook just a week or so ago, you'd think the device just rolled out.)

For me personally after buying $4,000 worth of BlackBerry product based those statements, assurances, promises- whatever you want to call them if they (BlackBerry) does not come up with something substantial I will probably *never buy anything that says "BlackBerry" on it and will actively steer people away from the brand.

I would bet that the majority of the 100,000 + persons that bought based upon hearing the tablet would be updated to BB10 feel the same way.

To me BlackBerry is no better than some film-flam fly-by night company selling stuff out the back of unmarked trucks.
( Actually with them stating BB10 would come, then go back on that they're worse.)

1: Android runtime should be updated to 4.xx. How long has it been @ 2.3? Since the release date?
2: USB OTG should be turned on.
3: Browser
4: BB10 app compatibility.

Q: I've read post after post from BlackBerry diehards here saying BlackBerry worked "HARD" on bringing BB10 OS to the playbook.... If they had it seems alot of work has already been done in this area.

Advantage to BlackBerry and Developers? (Don't forget the developers)
SALES of (BB10) apps to 2.7 million PlayBook owners. 2.7 million "Happy Customers"

2.7 million PlayBooks getting "New" BB10 apps would result in them being "used" more so than they are now. I would venture a high percentage of PlayBooks are considered a embarrassment to their owners, hence aren't getting out in public.

BlackBerry may think the tablet market is dead, but having "happy" customers out there totting around a tablet that says "BlackBerry" on it will generate interest, and generate sales. (Even if you have killed off the device)
EG: During a train ride to work each day, about once or twice per week another passenger asks what kind of tablet is that. (That's 52 to 104 people per year for those drinking the kool-aide in Waterloo)
Happy customer talks up the device, saying it's worked well from them, the manufacturer updated it often, added Android runtime to 4.xxx and has said they will update to 5.xxx when it comes out, states the device has never let them down and that it's built like a tank. (Well-built)... Later on persons that have interacted with that "happy" customer are 10 times more likely to buy BlackBerry products and during conversations are likely to relay to to others the story of that "happy" customer on the train that day.
(Just as a FYI for BlackBerry "Word of Mouth" does generate sales. Most people distrust "Salespeople" , they put more credence into how a customer who's had the product over a extended period of time views the product.)

Happy customers are your best salesmen.

5: If BB10 app compatibly can't be done, see #1, #6 below

6 Updating the Android run-time and "StreamLine" the "Side-Loading process" would make alot of people happy.
*StreamLining Side-Loading process meaning BlackBerry provides a app that converts apk to bar, tests the app in emulation mode (Adding whatever is needed), and makes the side-loading process "end user" friendly.

Oh, if they did that it would kill app world sales...
Lets get real here people, most of the apps on App World are Android ports, and at this point with BlackBerry killing off the PlayBook/going back on their WORD BB10 would be a reality for the PlayBook not many developers are going to be adding apps to App World. They are going to be focusing on BB10 device customers.

As a idea to protect the remaining (3) developers... BlackBerry could sway persons from sourcing Android apps elsewhere by "ADDING VALUE" to apps sold via APP WORLD.

Hey everyone, If you buy from BlackBerry App World:

All apps have been thoroughly tested (Which is probably a lie)
We realize Time is money, with a simple mouse click the app is installed. No need to spend hours tracking down, converting apps from other sources.
All apps sold via app world have had ALL the Android TRACKING and DATA-MINING functions stripped out of them. We guarantee it! Your DATA and PERSONAL, BUSINESS INFO is SAFE with apps you buy from BlackBerry App World.
If for some reason xyz app does not fulfill your needs, or doesn't work properly will have a no-hassle double you money back policy, Click here, and we'll refund you money with a smile- We stand behind what we sell 200% !


If they did that, or would have done that day one the PlayBook came out the PlayBook probably would have been a commercial success. If they would do the a above now it would result in hordes of "happy" customers, hundreds of thousands of PlayBooks being shown off while the device was out in public.


BTW: Forgot to mention if they streamlined the side-loading process one thing that would help with APP World sales would be during the" streamlined side loading process" a list of apps being installed is transmitted /logged (with your permission- you can block this) With that list developers can use that info to develop "official" ports.

As a last step effort to pusaude people to buy from app world instead of side-loading:
If xyz app being side-loading during the "StreamLined Side-Loading Process" is added to the que to be converted from apk to bar. is already on "App World" a pop-up appears saying xyz all is already on App-World, hey why don't you buy from us... Remember all are stuff is tested/ has tracking stuff stripped out and has a 200% money back guarantee!

They click YES and they are rolled over to complete the transaction, if NO is selected the app is converted locally as described previously.

I have to agree 100% with "wearenotalone" and he is right on the money with many good points!

what blackberry did was infact SHADY by promising us PB owners that there would be OS10 AND I have seen a couple of vids ( linked from this forum BTW) of os10 running on a PB with new features that will be coming in the future, of course they did this as a PLOY to sell of as many PB as they could AND to generate buzz and excitement of their OS10 for their phones when it was soon to be released! so don't tell me that OS10 cannot run on the PB...I know for a fact many friends bought a PB because BlackBerry promised this and from recommendation from me that they would do this! and it worked, PB sales went up like 30% also with the price decreased helped also! so with that said I will no longer EVER recommend a blackberry device NOR will I ever invest in one! and that my friends will hurt blackberry or IS hurting blackberry more than anything! every person on here who is feeling like they got jilted has a right to feel so, and now the SMARTEST thing BlackBerry can do is fix this!...and SOON!

[Hirazi Blue]

While I, again, to a certain degree agree with you, this whole action (at least not the version I proposed) wasn't about getting what we deserved, it was about getting the most out of the situation, which are obviously distinctively different. To me it is however almost academic, sadly, as the disinterest in the "friendly" approach I suggested has been deafening, so to speak...

[WeAreNotAlone]

For now As BB is on hold, we await for opportunity. As long as the company does not go bankrupt and sold in pieces.

It seems to me that a company that is on the verge of bankruptcy, a buy-out, or looking to go private would benefit from MORE, vs LESS installed "HAPPY" customer base.

I know if I was looking at such, adding up to 2.7 million "Happy" customers would be a positive and outweigh the cost of making them "happy".

Note: If BlackBerry didn't have a 2.9<3.1 BILLION DOLLAR Warchest they are sitting on, and "If" they were heavily in DEBT talk about poor old BlackBerry not having any money to spend on the PlayBook might be justified.

The "letter" while the tone being "nice" if you guys are hung up on that needs to at the same time worded to "Call them Out", and let them know ignoring PlayBook owners is going to cost them MORE than the money spent to address the issues /short comings / the wants customers were expecting.

Additionally there needs to be numbers that give them incentive, @ just 1% having 27,000 people out there everyday "talking up your product" is a PLUS vs 270,000 (10%) being extremely dissatisfied, and feeling they've been LIED to, ripped off, whatever you what to call it.

*27,000 salesmen out there everyday, for the next 5 to 10 yrs plus talking up your products, vs a higher number of people who will steer people away from your products.

At the end of the day the company needs to be made aware that ignoring the PlayBook is going to cost them lost sales, and that unlike HP which unlocked the bootloader when they dropped the TouchPad so other OS's could be installed BlackBerry customers being left with a device that's locked up tighter than Fort Knox.

HP will be remembered as a company that did the right thing. BlackBerry will be remembered as knowing early on (2012-09) BB10 would not run on the PlayBook, while at the same time saying all PlayBooks would be getting a update to BB10.

BlackBerry will also be known as waiting 8-9 months (2012-09 to 2013-06-28) to announce BB10 was not doable on the PlayBook in so as to not affect the BB10 rollout, and so as to not negatively impact clearing out all those previously unsold PlayBooks that had been languishing for 18 months+. This "delay" of 8-9 months making it easy for them to say "Hey, we can't afford to spend anything on the Playbook, it's "old" now...

As it's unlikely BlackBerry will unlock the boot-loader, OR "Open source" app /OS , OR provide source code everything is dependent upon BlackBerry "Manning Up", stepping up to the plate and delivering a major OS update.

A "nice" letter isn't going to do it.
(Online petition, I'd sign that.)

One last thing, I've touched on before but no one seems to have picked up on it.
If the PlayBook would run BB10 apps, you get the profits from those sales, PLUS you keep your customer desiring a tablet /phone combo within the same brandname. Having a customer out and about with a BB10 phone paired with a Android, Apple or windows device makes BlackBerry look frankly like a bunch incompetent fools.

As I posted before to drive home the point tablets are useful I'd like to make a video showing a corporate meeting at BlackBerry Headquaters and people are using other device manufacturers tablets.

What would be really funny would be during the meeting someone having the other brands tablets hooked up to a projector /big screen tv having two or three persons during the presentation saying:

Hey I didn't know our browser, or xyz app did that, Man that's IMPRESSIVE!

Response being, ours won't do that I'm using a Android,Apple, Windows tablet.

.
.

[Hirazi Blue]

So put your money... (I'm sure you know the phrase):
Word a new petition and get everyone to sign! Time has already run out as far as I am concerned (just look at the time between the OP and this post). But if you want to achieve anything, you have to ACT now. We all know how you feel about this, you have made it abundantly clear (and I DO NOT mean that in a negative way), now you should take the next step and act accordingly!


PS And don't take this the wrong way, this is truly meant as friendly advise...

[bambinoitaliano]

It seems to me that a company that is on the verge of bankruptcy, a buy-out, or looking to go private would benefit from MORE, vs LESS installed "HAPPY" customer base.

I know if I was looking at such, adding up to 2.7 million "Happy" customers would be a positive and outweigh the cost of making them "happy".

Note: If BlackBerry didn't have a 2.9<3.1 BILLION DOLLAR Warchest they are sitting on, and "If" they were heavily in DEBT talk about poor old BlackBerry not having any money to spend on the PlayBook might be justified.

The "letter" while the tone being "nice" if you guys are hung up on that needs to at the same time worded to "Call them Out", and let them know ignoring PlayBook owners is going to cost them MORE than the money spent to address the issues /short comings / the wants customers were expecting.

Additionally there needs to be numbers that give them incentive, @ just 1% having 27,000 people out there everyday "talking up your product" is a PLUS vs 270,000 (10%) being extremely dissatisfied, and feeling they've been LIED to, ripped off, whatever you what to call it.

*27,000 salesmen out there everyday, for the next 5 to 10 yrs plus talking up your products, vs a higher number of people who will steer people away from your products.

At the end of the day the company needs to be made aware that ignoring the PlayBook is going to cost them lost sales, and that unlike HP which unlocked the bootloader when they dropped the TouchPad so other OS's could be installed BlackBerry customers being left with a device that's locked up tighter than Fort Knox.

HP will be remembered as a company that did the right thing. BlackBerry will be remembered as knowing early on (2012-09) BB10 would not run on the PlayBook, while at the same time saying all PlayBooks would be getting a update to BB10.

BlackBerry will also be known as waiting 8-9 months (2012-09 to 2013-06-28) to announce BB10 was not doable on the PlayBook in so as to not affect the BB10 rollout, and so as to not negatively impact clearing out all those previously unsold PlayBooks that had been languishing for 18 months+. This "delay" of 8-9 months making it easy for them to say "Hey, we can't afford to spend anything on the Playbook, it's "old" now...

As it's unlikely BlackBerry will unlock the boot-loader, OR "Open source" app /OS , OR provide source code everything is dependent upon BlackBerry "Manning Up", stepping up to the plate and delivering a major OS update.

A "nice" letter isn't going to do it.
(Online petition, I'd sign that.)

One last thing, I've touched on before but no one seems to have picked up on it.
If the PlayBook would run BB10 apps, you get the profits from those sales, PLUS you keep your customer desiring a tablet /phone combo within the same brandname. Having a customer out and about with a BB10 phone paired with a Android, Apple or windows device makes BlackBerry look frankly like a bunch incompetent fools.

As I posted before to drive home the point tablets are useful I'd like to make a video showing a corporate meeting at BlackBerry Headquaters and people are using other device manufacturers devices.

.

.
.

Totally agree with you. That's one thing that consistently mystify me how the company handle the situation. Even if they can't offer anything at least the PR machine should be cranking up excuses to soften the blow like 6 months ago. Heck! Even during Q1 result. As if they live in a bubble and not realize such display of poor salesmanship. Makes one wonder from the launch of BB10 announcement last year until today if it is just the company going through the motion before the inevitable happen.

[RearViewMirror3]

Can we add front-facing camera SDK so we can get a "Skype" app?

[schwede]

@WeAreNotAlone: where can I sign you petition - please post the link here.

[axllebeer]

@WeAreNotAlone: where can I sign you petition - please post the link here.

Yes please I will gladly sign it.

Sent from my EVO using CB Forums mobile app

[AWB70]

Another bad marketing startegy I think Blackberry has over looked is most people will at some point purchase a tablet of some description. I feel pretty sure that at some point people will be using their blackberry phone and x tablet when their phone upgrade is due.Virtually guaranteed that they will consider the same brand phone to go with that tablet.

[FF22]

It seems to me that a company that is on the verge of bankruptcy, a buy-out, or looking to go private would benefit from MORE, vs LESS installed "HAPPY" customer base.

I know if I was looking at such, adding up to 2.7 million "Happy" customers would be a positive and outweigh the cost of making them "happy".

Note: If BlackBerry didn't have a 2.9<3.1 BILLION DOLLAR Warchest they are sitting on, and "If" they were heavily in DEBT talk about poor old BlackBerry not having any money to spend on the PlayBook might be justified.

The "letter" while the tone being "nice" if you guys are hung up on that needs to at the same time worded to "Call them Out", and let them know ignoring PlayBook owners is going to cost them MORE than the money spent to address the issues /short comings / the wants customers were expecting.

Additionally there needs to be numbers that give them incentive, @ just 1% having 27,000 people out there everyday "talking up your product" is a PLUS vs 270,000 (10%) being extremely dissatisfied, and feeling they've been LIED to, ripped off, whatever you what to call it.

*27,000 salesmen out there everyday, for the next 5 to 10 yrs plus talking up your products, vs a higher number of people who will steer people away from your products.

At the end of the day the company needs to be made aware that ignoring the PlayBook is going to cost them lost sales, and that unlike HP which unlocked the bootloader when they dropped the TouchPad so other OS's could be installed BlackBerry customers being left with a device that's locked up tighter than Fort Knox.

HP will be remembered as a company that did the right thing. BlackBerry will be remembered as knowing early on (2012-09) BB10 would not run on the PlayBook, while at the same time saying all PlayBooks would be getting a update to BB10.

BlackBerry will also be known as waiting 8-9 months (2012-09 to 2013-06-28) to announce BB10 was not doable on the PlayBook in so as to not affect the BB10 rollout, and so as to not negatively impact clearing out all those previously unsold PlayBooks that had been languishing for 18 months+. This "delay" of 8-9 months making it easy for them to say "Hey, we can't afford to spend anything on the Playbook, it's "old" now...

As it's unlikely BlackBerry will unlock the boot-loader, OR "Open source" app /OS , OR provide source code everything is dependent upon BlackBerry "Manning Up", stepping up to the plate and delivering a major OS update.

A "nice" letter isn't going to do it.
(Online petition, I'd sign that.)

One last thing, I've touched on before but no one seems to have picked up on it.
If the PlayBook would run BB10 apps, you get the profits from those sales, PLUS you keep your customer desiring a tablet /phone combo within the same brandname. Having a customer out and about with a BB10 phone paired with a Android, Apple or windows device makes BlackBerry look frankly like a bunch incompetent fools.

As I posted before to drive home the point tablets are useful I'd like to make a video showing a corporate meeting at BlackBerry Headquaters and people are using other device manufacturers tablets.

What would be really funny would be during the meeting someone having the other brands tablets hooked up to a projector /big screen tv having two or three persons during the presentation saying:

Hey I didn't know our browser, or xyz app did that, Man that's IMPRESSIVE!

Response being, ours won't do that I'm using a Android,Apple, Windows tablet.

.
.

very well stated. they habe billions in the bank and clearly have not spent it on advertising. they could habe invested some of it making bb10 work on the pb.

and I do like the image of OTHER tablets being used at bb corporate.

[Hirazi Blue]

Okay, I do absolutely not want to interfere with a hopefully soon to be published petition (which I will obviously only sign, if I like what it will eventually say, but that�s another story). On an older blog by Alec Saunders one can find a mail address for mr. Saunders. I have no idea how outdated it already is, but an online mail verification proved it to be valid still at least. What would you people say, if � parallel to the petition � I pose the second part of my proposal to him (the part about the placing of the PB default apps into the �open source�), in a mail to him, as it�s the one thing that wouldn�t cost them any money and hardly any work?

[msps]

There's nothing to lose