07-19-12 10:12 PM
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  1. jk777's Avatar
    Saw this in the print edition of Saturday's Globe & Mail: "the PlayBook accounted for 19% of the Canadian tablet market in Q1 2012, up from 2% in Q2 2011"

    I cannot find it on the Globe's web site, but here is another link:

    RIM BlackBerry PlayBook second most popular tablet in Canada in Q1 2012 - Gadgetorama
    07-15-12 10:06 PM
  2. lynxs_claw's Avatar
    Ahh.. The globe and mail probably took it down already.. You know how hard it is for them to give good news about BlackBerry
    anon(3896606), bungaboy and chm985 like this.
    07-16-12 02:12 AM
  3. Herve5's Avatar
    What also ins interesting from the table is, last year RIM reached half the audience of Samsung alone, while this year it covers all the Android competitors altogether.

    This, is a sign.

    I think in order to create an actual applications ecosystem you need more than one year (Apple and Google needed more definitely); it seems RIM is actually succeeding in this right now.

    I bought mine mostly out of philosophical considerations (do not want monopolies) but I now discover with great pleasure there are indeed apps being created every month, and not the 'fart-app' class --for instance this month I saw the Read It Later RSS agregator that really fills a gap and looks seducing (for a two-weeks app!)
    07-16-12 04:18 AM
  4. mikeo007's Avatar
    It was taken down because this was already debunked. Someone posted the same thing weeks ago and did a breakdown of the numbers. If this was true, it means that every single playbook sold, was sold in Canada.
    07-16-12 06:51 AM
  5. jk777's Avatar
    The previous post referred to a CBC survey. This one is based on a Solutions Research Group (SRG) quarterly survey.
    Here is a link to this story on the Globe's web site:

    https://secure.globeadvisor.com/serv...TABLETS0713ATL

    And here is a scan of the printed story:
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    07-16-12 10:40 AM
  6. hpjrt's Avatar
    It was taken down because this was already debunked. Someone posted the same thing weeks ago and did a breakdown of the numbers. If this was true, it means that every single playbook sold, was sold in Canada.
    You seem to have misread the stats. This was a statistic of "tablets sold in Canada" ...

    To reiterate ... it has nothing to do with Playbook sales in North American in general ... or globally. It is strictly about the tablet market in Canada. That simple.
    07-16-12 10:50 AM
  7. Real Estate Appraiser's Avatar
    The playbook is fairly popular in Canada. I know more people with playbook than with ipads.
    OriginalLucy and bungaboy like this.
    07-16-12 11:36 AM
  8. goku_vegeta's Avatar
    The playbook is fairly popular in Canada. I know more people with playbook than with ipads.
    I think this was in part due to a small blitz in RIM advertising and even major mainstream news networks giving a nice amount of praise to the PlayBook during the PlayBook OS 2.0 launch.
    07-16-12 11:42 AM
  9. mikeo007's Avatar
    You seem to have misread the stats. This was a statistic of "tablets sold in Canada" ...

    To reiterate ... it has nothing to do with Playbook sales in North American in general ... or globally. It is strictly about the tablet market in Canada. That simple.
    I'm going to give you some simple math to mull over. All numbers are rounded for easier maths. Also, just so we're clear on what we're calculating: "In the first quarter of 2012, SRG found that Apple's iPad had slipped to about 56 per cent of the tablets in Canadian homes from around 80 per cent in the second quarter of 2011."

    Approx number of Canadians: 35 million
    Approx number of tablet owners in Canada:7,350,000 (21% * 35 mil)
    Approx number of Playbooks sold: 1,000,000 (slightly old number, so let's use 1.2 mil)

    So, we have 7.35 mil tablets in Canada, with the article stating That 19% of these are Playbooks.
    19% * 7,350,000 ~ 1.4 million Playbooks owned by Canadians.
    RIM has sold approx 1.2 million Playbooks to date.

    See any problems with these survey results yet?

    Edit: for anyone who will ask where the tablet ownership percentage came from, here are a few links. There are so many varying percentages out there, so I just took the median number.

    http://tumbleweedmarketinganalytics....hip-in-canada/
    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/tablet-owne...132516009.html
    Last edited by mikeo007; 07-16-12 at 12:04 PM.
    07-16-12 11:51 AM
  10. hpjrt's Avatar
    I'm going to give you some simple math to mull over. All numbers are rounded for easier maths. Also, just so we're clear on what we're calculating: "In the first quarter of 2012, SRG found that Apple's iPad had slipped to about 56 per cent of the tablets in Canadian homes from around 80 per cent in the second quarter of 2011."

    Approx number of Canadians: 35 million
    Approx number of tablet owners in Canada:7,350,000 (21% * 35 mil)
    Approx number of Playbooks sold: 1,000,000 (slightly old number, so let's use 1.2 mil)

    So, we have 7.35 mil tablets in Canada, with the article stating That 19% of these are Playbooks.
    19% * 7,350,000 ~ 1.4 million Playbooks owned by Canadians.
    RIM has sold approx 1.2 million Playbooks to date.

    See any problems with these survey results yet?

    Edit: for anyone who will ask where the tablet ownership percentage came from, here are a few links. There are so many varying percentages out there, so I just took the median number.

    Tablet PC Ownership in Canada | Tumbleweed Marketing Analytics
    Tablet ownership continues to surge in Canada; iPad tops: tech trends report - Yahoo! News Canada
    Again, reading is your friend. The group of people polled was 2,000 ... not the entire population of Canada ... not the first 10 people to come through the door ... but 2,000. How these people were chosen, I don't know. Still I know that no one contacted me for this survey.

    From the survey, the stats were extrapolated. That's pretty standard.

    I don't know of any survey with resulting stats that is, in fact, completely accurate. Indeed, political polls almost never reflect the opinions/choices of my peer group.

    If you focus on the minutia of statistics, I believe you could drive yourself insane.
    07-16-12 12:35 PM
  11. bitek's Avatar
    It was taken down because this was already debunked. Someone posted the same thing weeks ago and did a breakdown of the numbers. If this was true, it means that every single playbook sold, was sold in Canada.
    which pretty much is the case now ....
    07-16-12 12:39 PM
  12. mikeo007's Avatar
    Again, reading is your friend. The group of people polled was 2,000 ... not the entire population of Canada ... not the first 10 people to come through the door ... but 2,000. How these people were chosen, I don't know. Still I know that no one contacted me for this survey.

    From the survey, the stats were extrapolated. That's pretty standard.

    I don't know of any survey with resulting stats that is, in fact, completely accurate. Indeed, political polls almost never reflect the opinions/choices of my peer group.

    If you focus on the minutia of statistics, I believe you could drive yourself insane.
    You're really not making sense here. All survey results are extrapolated from a sample, it's not feasible to ask everyone the same question for market research.

    The results extrapolated from this particular survey are obviously flawed form the simple math I posted above.

    The only thing we can tell for sure from this survey is that 380 Canadians own a Playbook.

    The 19% market share number is flawed, you can't argue against basic logic, so what point are you trying to make? I'm thinking your understanding of statistics is a bit light and maybe you're having a hard time understanding the article.
    07-16-12 12:50 PM
  13. hpjrt's Avatar
    Hmmm ... now correct my math if you like ... but 19% of 2000 equals 380. So of those 2000 people surveyed, 19% of them had Playbooks ... which is 19%. Whether or not the person writing the article used the correct terminology is not my problem. Pandering to your ego regarding your superior understanding of logic [in your words] is also not my problem. I'm way too old to care, frankly.

    Why are you so concerned? You gave away your Playbook. You don't really need to even read the comments about the Playbook anymore. You should relax and contemplate something of more importance. You should bask in the glory that is your iPad 3 ... on its board instead of trying to pick a fight with an old woman.
    alan510, bungaboy, KermEd and 4 others like this.
    07-16-12 01:30 PM
  14. mikeo007's Avatar
    Hmmm ... now correct my math if you like ... but 19% of 2000 equals 380. So of those 2000 people surveyed, 19% of them had Playbooks ... which is 19%. Whether or not the person writing the article used the correct terminology is not my problem. Pandering to your ego regarding your superior understanding of logic [in your words] is also not my problem. I'm way too old to care, frankly.

    Why are you so concerned? You gave away your Playbook. You don't really need to even read the comments about the Playbook anymore. You should relax and contemplate something of more importance. You should bask in the glory that is your iPad 3 ... on its board instead of trying to pick a fight with an old woman.
    You called me out saying I didn't read the article after I stated that their claim "Playbook has 19% of Canadian tablet marketshare" was wrong. I proved you wrong. Each time you claimed I wasn't "reading" yet my facts came directly from the articles.

    As for why I'm in this forum, it's a public forum. I'm not bashing the Playbook here, just stating simple facts and clearing up misconceptions. If its against the forum rules, the mods will handle it, you needn't concern yourself with that.
    07-16-12 01:39 PM
  15. app_Developer's Avatar
    Hmmm ... now correct my math if you like ... but 19% of 2000 equals 380. So of those 2000 people surveyed, 19% of them had Playbooks ... which is 19%.
    You seem to be suggesting, then, that the survey is flawed or not representative of the overall Canadian market?

    The fact is either (a) the survey is deeply flawed and the 19% is not representative at all of the overall Canadian marketshare or (b) most Playbooks that have been sold were actually sold in Canada itself, meaning the Playbook is essentially nonexistent outside of that one country.

    I think the answer is (a).
    07-16-12 01:41 PM
  16. hpjrt's Avatar
    It is a public forum ... but just as you can concern yourself with commenting albeit under the guise of correcting, so I can wonder aloud as to why you are bothering when you so patently prefer the iPad 3. What's good for you is also good for me.

    And by the way ... in a survey of 2000 people representing the tablet market, 380 does represent 19% of the market as based on the survey.
    07-16-12 01:42 PM
  17. mikeo007's Avatar
    It is a public forum ... but just as you can concern yourself with commenting albeit under the guise of correcting, so I can wonder aloud as to why you are bothering when you so patently prefer the iPad 3. What's good for you is also good for me.

    And by the way ... in a survey of 2000 people representing the tablet market, 380 does represent 19% of the market as based on the survey.
    Ok, I'll try one more time.
    The article claims that the Playbook makes up 19% of the Canadian tablet market.
    I proved this to be impossible.
    You disagreed with me, stating something about tablet sales in Canada only (which made no sense).
    I proved you wrong again.
    You continue to disagree, making less and less sense through your arguments.

    You're making my head hurt, welcome to the ignore list.
    07-16-12 01:48 PM
  18. hpjrt's Avatar
    OOh goody! [I've never been on an ignore list before. Just to make it fair ... welcome to mine!] Here are two aspirin!

    I continue to disagree.

    And just for the record, you actually do engage in a subtle slamming of the Playbook whenever the opportunity is afforded you.
    Last edited by hpjrt; 07-16-12 at 02:03 PM.
    bungaboy and taylor96 like this.
    07-16-12 01:59 PM
  19. rcm1301's Avatar
    I'm going to give you some simple math to mull over. All numbers are rounded for easier maths. Also, just so we're clear on what we're calculating: "In the first quarter of 2012, SRG found that Apple's iPad had slipped to about 56 per cent of the tablets in Canadian homes from around 80 per cent in the second quarter of 2011."

    Approx number of Canadians: 35 million
    Approx number of tablet owners in Canada:7,350,000 (21% * 35 mil)
    Approx number of Playbooks sold: 1,000,000 (slightly old number, so let's use 1.2 mil)

    So, we have 7.35 mil tablets in Canada, with the article stating That 19% of these are Playbooks.
    19% * 7,350,000 ~ 1.4 million Playbooks owned by Canadians.
    RIM has sold approx 1.2 million Playbooks to date.

    See any problems with these survey results yet?

    Edit: for anyone who will ask where the tablet ownership percentage came from, here are a few links. There are so many varying percentages out there, so I just took the median number.

    Tablet PC Ownership in Canada | Tumbleweed Marketing Analytics
    Tablet ownership continues to surge in Canada; iPad tops: tech trends report - Yahoo! News Canada
    Some major flaws in your maths and assumptions.
    You cannot assume 21% of total population owns it when clearly it says only 21% of those surveyed. ("with about 21 per cent of those surveyed reporting they owned one of the pricey devices" - from one of your links)

    In the other link you provided, the total market of tablets owned in Canada is only about 1.9 million ("The number of Anglophone and Francophone Tablet owners in Canada will approach 2,105,030 by 2031, compared to about 1,945,525 in 2011).

    Now, 19% of 1,945,525 is ~ 370k. You say about 1,2 million PB sold to date. Taken into account the loyalty of Canadian towards RIM, I would say that 370K of the 1,2 million is very plausible and make this 19% statement legitimate.
    07-16-12 02:07 PM
  20. app_Developer's Avatar

    In the other link you provided, the total market of tablets owned in Canada is only about 1.9 million ("The number of Anglophone and Francophone Tablet owners in Canada will approach 2,105,030 by 2031, compared to about 1,945,525 in 2011).
    That's a good point, but the same article repeats the 21% claim, and more importantly the 2,105,030 number just seems ludicrous. One, why/how so specific? That's a bizarre number for a projection. Two, how can the number go up only 150k units in 2 decades?? I guess that was a misprint?

    It seems to me this research is junk.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 07-16-12 at 02:30 PM.
    07-16-12 02:28 PM
  21. mikeo007's Avatar
    Some major flaws in your maths and assumptions.
    You cannot assume 21% of total population owns it when clearly it says only 21% of those surveyed. ("with about 21 per cent of those surveyed reporting they owned one of the pricey devices" - from one of your links)

    In the other link you provided, the total market of tablets owned in Canada is only about 1.9 million ("The number of Anglophone and Francophone Tablet owners in Canada will approach 2,105,030 by 2031, compared to about 1,945,525 in 2011).

    Now, 19% of 1,945,525 is ~ 370k. You say about 1,2 million PB sold to date. Taken into account the loyalty of Canadian towards RIM, I would say that 370K of the 1,2 million is very plausible and make this 19% statement legitimate.
    I don't think anyone is arguing that stats are 100% accurate. Like I said earlier, a survey is supposed to be a representative sample. We don't know who they chose their sample from, so we don't know whether or not they were representative of the entire Canadian population.

    I also included 2 articles because of that obvious mistake where they (somehow) counted the EXACT number of tablet owners in Canada..? Earlier in the article, they state "About 21% of Anglophone and Francophone Canadians own a Tablet computer in 2012: versus about 3-4% in 2010."

    370k is a very reasonable eatimate of Playbooks sold in Canada. But saying that is 19% of the Canadian tablet marketshare is not feasible. US tablet ownership is pegged at just under 30%. That is saying that only 5% of Canadians own a tablet. That would put Canada in the stone age compared to the USA which is just not the case.
    07-16-12 02:30 PM
  22. pinery's Avatar
    Approx number of Canadians: 35 million
    Approx number of tablet owners in Canada:7,350,000 (21% * 35 mil)
    Approx number of Playbooks sold: 1,000,000 (slightly old number, so let's use 1.2 mil)

    So, we have 7.35 mil tablets in Canada, with the article stating That 19% of these are Playbooks.
    19% * 7,350,000 ~ 1.4 million Playbooks owned by Canadians.
    RIM has sold approx 1.2 million Playbooks to date.

    See any problems with these survey results yet?
    Perhaps they meant 19% of new tablets sold in the quarter, not 19% of the total tablets owned in Canada.
    07-16-12 07:51 PM
  23. mcmolineux's Avatar
    I think there are some flaws in the methodology that result from people vs. households. For instance, I have a Playbook that both my SO and I use. 1 Playbook in the house. Tomorrow if someone called me doing a survey and asked me if I had a Playbook, I would say yes. Then if someone called my SO the next day doing a survey and asked if she had a Playbook, she would say yes. As a result, our PB would be double-counted. I know that they are unlikely to call the two people from the same household, but this "household ownership" scenario means that their results are going to be skewed to a higher number of tablets, meaning it won't jive with overall tablet sales numbers.

    Let's say there are 100 people called, 1 person in each of 100 households. Each person called in this scenario lives in a household of 2, so the households of 200 people were called. 25% of these households have Playbooks. If everyone who has a Playbook in the house responds as being a Playbook owner, the surveys results would claim that 25% of people in Canada have Playbooks, or 10,000,000 Playbooks (using a population of 40,000,000 for ease of calculations), based on extrapolation. But really, there are only 25 Playbooks for the 200 people in the households, which should be extrapolated to 12.5% of Canadians, or 5,000,000 Playbooks in Canada.

    This is different from a survey about something like voting intentions, or buying preferences. Since those are individual things, people will answer on an individual basis for themselves. If they call my house and I saw I am going to vote for party X, they can extrapolate that regardless of how my SO is going to vote, because we don't share a vote, we each have our own and can vote for the same or different parties. But on things that are often shared, like tablets or houses, people will answer based on a household. Imagine a survey where they called asking if people lived in houses. 95% of the 100,000 people in my city would answer yes. But that doesn't mean that there are 95,000 houses in my city.
    Last edited by mcmolineux; 07-16-12 at 08:50 PM.
    07-16-12 08:47 PM
  24. green_ember's Avatar
    The real story here is that according to the "research", Apple has lost 24% market share in Canada. If it was RIM who had dropped 24% in market share, the media would be ALL OVER this story. But, just like in RIM's case, the initial drop in market share wasn't a drop in popularity (it became one eventually), but rather a failure to grow at the same rate as the overall market. You can still grow sales and lose share. It's simple math. Along the same theory, it makes it more impressive that RIM grew it's share so much more while facing more competition from Android tabs. Any way you slice it, you can make a statistic using the same data that paints any picture that you want it to.

    Plus, don't forget to believe everything you read on the internet (especially where there are high concentrations of dedicated fans with opposing viewpoints)!
    07-16-12 09:09 PM
  25. Luckyman6886's Avatar
    The playbook is fairly popular in Canada. I know more people with playbook than with ipads.
    Yes, you right
    07-17-12 08:15 PM
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