09-09-13 04:45 PM
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  1. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    WP had one good quarter where BB10 wasn't on the market yet. One good quarter doesn't make a trend.

    From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10
    05-17-13 04:19 AM
  2. raykutro's Avatar
    Oh God, this limited RAM excuse is driving me nuts. Its total bull**** and doesn't make any sense at all. See the numbers:

    iPad 1 - 256MB
    iPad 2 - 512MB
    iPad Mini - 512MB
    iPad 3/4 - 1GB

    iPhone 4 / 4S - 512MB
    iPhone 5 - 1GB

    PlayBook - 1GB
    Dev Alpha - 1GB (BB10 worked fine on this)

    and BB says BB10 requires 2GB of RAM to run smoothly. They should be ashamed of this fact and immediately fire all the software engineers who have worked on BB10 and are still working on it. This is nothing but a showcase of incompetency. They are not using the resources efficiently. Multi-tasking and Hub can't be another excuse, you can always limited that according the RAM available on the device.

    Here is another perspective of the situation, as we all know PlayBooks were already out in the market long before the the development of BB10 begun, in fact, PlayBook OS and the core base of BB10. When they promised BB10 for PlayBook for the first time, they knew the damn thing has 1GB of RAM, they must have used PlayBook to test BB10 on it, when they were promising to bring that OS to PlayBook, why didn't they keep hardware of PlayBook in mind? The more disturbing thing is that they kept saying the same even after the release of BB10, so do you think that they were not aware of 1GB of RAM on PlayBook before making promises, it suddenly occur to them "Oh, PlayBook has 1GB of RAM, BB10 won't work on it, Sorry!"... WTF?
    05-17-13 04:27 AM
  3. Xano's Avatar
    Oh God, this limited RAM excuse is driving me nuts. Its total bull**** and doesn't make any sense at all. See the numbers:

    iPad 1 - 256MB
    iPad 2 - 512MB
    iPad Mini - 512MB
    iPad 3/4 - 1GB

    iPhone 4 / 4S - 512MB
    iPhone 5 - 1GB

    PlayBook - 1GB
    Dev Alpha - 1GB (BB10 worked fine on this)

    and BB says BB10 requires 2GB of RAM to run smoothly. They should be ashamed of this fact and immediately fire all the software engineers who have worked on BB10 and are still working on it. This is nothing but a showcase of incompetency. They are not using the resources efficiently. Multi-tasking and Hub can't be another excuse, you can always limited that according the RAM available on the device.

    Here is another perspective of the situation, as we all know PlayBooks were already out in the market long before the the development of BB10 begun, in fact, PlayBook OS and the core base of BB10. When they promised BB10 for PlayBook for the first time, they knew the damn thing has 1GB of RAM, they must have used PlayBook to test BB10 on it, when they were promising to bring that OS to PlayBook, why didn't they keep hardware of PlayBook in mind? The more disturbing thing is that they kept saying the same even after the release of BB10, so do you think that they were not aware of 1GB of RAM on PlayBook before making promises, it suddenly occur to them "Oh, PlayBook has 1GB of RAM, BB10 won't work on it, Sorry!"... WTF?
    They need to Feed us with crap and treat us like dumbs.

    Even if the the 1GB of Ram was not enough to run full BB10 they have all the time in the world to work or emulate a cleaner version.

    IPhone 3 only have 256MB of Ram and run Skype, Instagram, eBay, imdb, viber, wathsApp, wifi, cellular, 3G and 200.000 apps.
    05-17-13 04:38 AM
  4. djpailo's Avatar
    Oh God, this limited RAM excuse is driving me nuts. Its total bull**** and doesn't make any sense at all. See the numbers:

    iPad 1 - 256MB
    iPad 2 - 512MB
    iPad Mini - 512MB
    iPad 3/4 - 1GB

    iPhone 4 / 4S - 512MB
    iPhone 5 - 1GB

    PlayBook - 1GB
    Dev Alpha - 1GB (BB10 worked fine on this)

    and BB says BB10 requires 2GB of RAM to run smoothly. They should be ashamed of this fact and immediately fire all the software engineers who have worked on BB10 and are still working on it. This is nothing but a showcase of incompetency. They are not using the resources efficiently. Multi-tasking and Hub can't be another excuse, you can always limited that according the RAM available on the device.

    Here is another perspective of the situation, as we all know PlayBooks were already out in the market long before the the development of BB10 begun, in fact, PlayBook OS and the core base of BB10. When they promised BB10 for PlayBook for the first time, they knew the damn thing has 1GB of RAM, they must have used PlayBook to test BB10 on it, when they were promising to bring that OS to PlayBook, why didn't they keep hardware of PlayBook in mind? The more disturbing thing is that they kept saying the same even after the release of BB10, so do you think that they were not aware of 1GB of RAM on PlayBook before making promises, it suddenly occur to them "Oh, PlayBook has 1GB of RAM, BB10 won't work on it, Sorry!"... WTF?
    Tbh this post should be stickied.
    Orange UK and PFman like this.
    05-17-13 05:43 AM
  5. bluenote's Avatar
    They didn't "confuse the market" over anything. The commitment to providing BB10 for the PlayBook has been consistent and clear. The release date has slipped, sure, but that actually happens in tech, amazingly enough.

    ".
    Hi Thunderbuck. It seems to me that we are misunderstanding each other. When the CEO is asked directly about the Playbook by Adam at the conference and he answers we are spending our R&D money "on the future", I hear him acknowledging and we are not spending on past products, especially those whose entire class of being (ie tablets) will be gone in 5 years. I don't hear anything about a release date slipping; if it was as simple as a date being pushed back, I would expect it to be said.
    At any rate, a date slippage past the end of this year timeframe that I thought was given by them is in essence not good because the tablet is 2 years old already and the co spreading BBM to outside communities this summer like IOS and Android and leaving its own users out by virtue of the idea that others are saying in the forum that the tablet needs an upgrade to run BBM properly, even makes the situation worse. And suggests these users (who may be the very ones to evangelize Blackberry to others) are expendable to Blackberry's R&D budget.
    05-17-13 06:10 AM
  6. Barracuda7772's Avatar
    Also for all those people saying BBRY is a buisness and only cares about profit and less about keeping customers happy how about this.....there are roughly 2.5million playbooks out in the wild many are unhappy without bb10. its proven fact happy customers spend money on more product, now even if 500,000 of those customers diddnt geta z10or q10 and say the other 2m did that's around 1 billion dollers .....so from a buisness stand point....your probably right ..... we don't need to keep the playbook users happy........we don't want their happiness or their money
    Orange UK likes this.
    05-17-13 08:03 AM
  7. SlcCorrado's Avatar
    Put it on Kijiji. But start high, say $50. You MIGHT get a an offer. Take $20 if you can get it.

    Posted via CB10
    Wow... If you're selling PlayBooks for 20 bucks, I'll take 5. PM me for info
    05-17-13 08:25 AM
  8. gwinegarden's Avatar
    How many of that two million are also phone subscribers? Can they afford to lose a bunch of them?
    05-17-13 08:33 AM
  9. Barracuda7772's Avatar
    How many of that two million are also phone subscribers? Can they afford to lose a bunch of them?
    I agree you can I know I'm not one of them I'm holding out on getting a new phone if inget bb10 on my playbook it will be a z10 or newer bb10 phone if it comes if I don't get bb10 it will be the galaxy s4 with pure android 4.3 announced at google io
    AdityaK likes this.
    05-17-13 08:56 AM
  10. sad_old_man's Avatar
    I agree you can I know I'm not one of them I'm holding out on getting a new phone if inget bb10 on my playbook it will be a z10 or newer bb10 phone if it comes if I don't get bb10 it will be the galaxy s4 with pure android 4.3 announced at google io
    I would go S4. Also people shouldn't forget that for every customer you lose, you need two new customers to retain growth. If bb are happy to lose let's sat 10,000 customers for whatever reason, then they at least have to gain 10,000 more to remain static. Then gain 10,000 more to continue growth at the shareholders expected and CEOs forecast rate!
    JeepBB and AdityaK like this.
    05-17-13 09:03 AM
  11. Barracuda7772's Avatar
    I would go S4. Also people shouldn't forget that for every customer you lose, you need two new customers to retain growth. If bb are happy to lose let's sat 10,000 customers for whatever reason, then they at least have to gain 10,000 more to remain static. Then gain 10,000 more to continue growth at the shareholders expected and CEOs forecast rate!
    I agree that makes to balance the books, but even though BBRY may not live up to their word I will. Integrity first
    Orange UK likes this.
    05-17-13 09:05 AM
  12. lnichols's Avatar
    This is giving me a headache.

    There is no story here. No conspiracy, no bait-and-switch. BlackBerry has been working full-out to make the Z10/Q10 rollouts as successful as possible, because their survival as a business depends on it. They need tens of millions of sales of these devices, and they need to do everything they can to convince enterprise and government customers that they can still provide a trustworthy MDM platform. In light of this, frankly, the demands of 2.3 million PlayBook owners just don't represent the same priority, and it's ludicrous to expect that. Especially when at least some of those PB owners are still happy with OS2.1.

    BlackBerry has done a remarkable job of meeting its targets in the past 18 months. The had an original launch target of Q4 calendar '12, and that only slipped a month. They've met their targets for BES functionality (and this is HUGE--possibly more important than the phones themselves both in complexity and in relevance to BlackBerry's future). They've made--and kept--huge commitments to developers and brought in tens of thousands of students and hobbyists into the app marketplace.

    They've just completed a corporate event that many industry analysts didn't expect them to survive long enough to get to. Think about that for a minute.

    I'm not trying to excuse BB in any way, I'm just setting some context here. I would have been very pleased to have heard some word on the PlayBook during BB Live, but I'm not extremely surprised that it wasn't mentioned. For one thing, it's one of the few targets they've publicly declared that HAS slipped (the release was originally set for "shortly after" the handset launches). For another thing, mention of the PlayBook might have sent an unintended signal that BB was still committed to the tablet market, which they may not be. Finally, for all intents and purposes the PlayBook is a dead-end product. I'm skeptical that there's any inventory left to sell, and it's a brand that has taken on an air of failure. BB10 on the PlayBook will do little to help BB's bottom line in any objective way.

    There are technical issues that are likely in play here, too. As a Dev Alpha A user, I can vouch that BB10 as it appeared on release absolutely will run on 1GB RAM, and in some ways it's much better than OS2.1 (boot time is lightning fast, for instance). There definitely are issues, though; it's not as smooth as on the Z10 and if too many apps are left running in Active Frames you see serious slowdowns and force-closes. There are ways to mitigate this, like limiting the number of open Active Frames or more aggressive memory management, but these are specific to the PlayBook, so, again, the business case for spending money on solving these issues isn't strong.

    There are issues with developers, too. Will all the apps that ran on OS2.1 work on BB10? How motivated will developers be to update their apps? Will current PB owners get free app updates? How will PB Music Store and Video Store purchases transfer over to BB World? These are business issues that may even be more difficult to resolve than the technical ones. And, again, not a strong business case for spending a lot of time or money to resolve them.

    I believe that the BB10 upgrade is coming for the PlayBook, and it may well come in the form that Kevin speculated on in his CB post in February. It will have a different UI, it may not include the Hub, and it might well disappoint many users in ways I can't foresee right now. I also believe that BB is committed to providing this despite the questionable business case, because they know that the PlayBook user community supported the company through the worst of its crisis. I'll admit, I wouldn't stake my life on this by any stretch, but until I hear definitive word from BB that it isn't coming, I'll try to be patient.
    Wow excellent revisionist history..... Actually BB10 was supposed to launch in early 2012, which destroyed BBOS7 sales because they announced that before BBOS7 devices were even on the market and many said they would wait for BB10. Then it got pushed back to Summer 2012, then to Q4 2012, then to Q1 2013, which they barely hit and hit it with low quantities. The Playbook suffered the same constant push backs for updates and missing features.

    Being a first week adopter I can say that BlackBerry completely botched the PlayBook from start to finish. Over promised, and under delivered. They told the world that it was going to get BB10 to move units at the fire sale prices, because even at the discounted pricing, people weren't sure how committed BBRY was to the device and the promise of BB10 at least provided the illusion that they still backed the product. They said just enough to keep many from dumping units on ebay. Now I find out that if I had bought an Apple iPad, at the same price as I paid for my 64GB PlayBook, I would have had many more apps and functionality over the past two years, but now it looks like the iOS is going to get BBM before the PlayBook!?!?! WTF! That would/will be the ultimate insult to PlayBook owners if iOS and Android get BBM before the PlayBook. Also QNX to QNX device communications is supposed to be awesome, but my BBOS to PlayBook Bridge is far superior to what I have now with my Z10 to PlayBook.

    I would be content with an update to the PlayBook that gives us the BB10 browser, BB10 app support, and a functional Bridge with the PlayBook UI. I don't need the Hub on the PlayBook, and I think the Hub is the memory hog in BB10. This could be all here now if the company had done the small incremental updates they promised, and not these major revisions. That said the company needs to be held accountable for what it said it would deliver. This is turning out to look like good Ole RIM way of doing business, and not the new improved BlackBerry they have been selling to people since Thor took over. Hopefully this new improved BlackBerry is not an illusion too with some old RIM cronies laughing around the campus about people that bought the PlayBook.
    05-17-13 09:43 AM
  13. Alex Tan's Avatar
    I remember Palm/HP promised Web OS 2.0 to the 1st gen Palm Pre.....they even put the statement on their website.... then delayed, refused to give a date and eventually said Pre is not powerful enough to run OS 2.0..... I hope BlackBerry is not following this path, because look at what happened to Palm...
    DurdenLunarius and Orange UK like this.
    05-17-13 10:09 AM
  14. Xano's Avatar
    I remember Palm/HP promised Web OS 2.0 to the 1st gen Palm Pre.....they even put the statement on their website.... then delayed, refused to give a date and eventually said Pre is not powerful enough to run OS 2.0..... I hope BlackBerry is not following this path, because look at what happened to Palm...
    Arrogants! But the history already show us what happens to this people and companies, BB is going into a dark way on my perspective.
    Orange UK likes this.
    05-17-13 10:19 AM
  15. lnichols's Avatar
    Also for all those people saying BBRY is a buisness and only cares about profit and less about keeping customers happy how about this.....there are roughly 2.5million playbooks out in the wild many are unhappy without bb10. its proven fact happy customers spend money on more product, now even if 500,000 of those customers diddnt geta z10or q10 and say the other 2m did that's around 1 billion dollers .....so from a buisness stand point....your probably right ..... we don't need to keep the playbook users happy........we don't want their happiness or their money
    Exactly I have bought 2 Z10 units since launch, and had planned to buy some more BB10 phones to upgrade my family over the rest of the year (5 phones total before Christmas). Now that BBM is going cross platform, and one of the main reasons I bought BlackBerry phones for my kids was to keep in touch with them via BBM, why do I need to get them BlackBerry phones now? I could get them Nexus4 for less, or an iPhone for almost same price, and not have to hear about app deficiencies that I'm hearing about from the one with the Z10. I can can get them Google Play or iTunes cards and let them download whatever they want from music to apps, since it appears that BlackBerry can't release a simple BlackBerry World Card because they bent over and gave carriers carrier billing and I guess [SARCASM] don't want to pi$$ off their biggest supporters, the carriers[/SARCASM].

    RIM made a lot of mistakes over the years, and really ignored what the end user wanted, and the results are obvious with the latest marketshare numbers. BlackBerry has a lot of sucking up to do to pay for the sins of the father, and honoring commitments should be a top priority, especially with them recently devaluing the ecosystem by going cross platform with BBM. BB10 is a great OS, but with a weak ecosystem, and still weak dev support, and now BBM going cross platform, the other platforms may be better option. Existing users will either be their greatest salesman, or if not happy, their biggest problem. Fact: A happy customer will tell one or two other people they are happy with and recommend a product or service; an unhappy customer will tell 7 to 8 people that they are unhappy with a product or service and tell people not purchase said product or service.
    05-17-13 10:26 AM
  16. SparkyBC's Avatar
    I bet Playbook won't even get BBM. If that's the case sell the POS PB while you can. I already am dumping 5 right now..Tired of waiting, tired of the browser, general slowness over time, email glitches, the list goes on and on.

    Why is it a cheap no name tablet can offer everything the PB can't? It deserves to die at this point. Thor's words are meaningless, and blackberry is the same old rim alienating their customer base as mindless morons. I would find it laughable if Blackberry threw a bone trade in the PB for a phablet for $100 credit. No way in hell i would bite.

    Playbook owners are essentially disposable to Blackberry. After all each and every owner was a tester for BB10. Now that it's on the market, what the h3ll do they need us for now. We did our job, Blackberry can pat themselves on the back with a job well done. Oh it's coming soon, ok 3rd quarter, ok maybe sometimes this year, No comment Next question.
    05-17-13 01:55 PM
  17. bbranny's Avatar
    Also for all those people saying BBRY is a buisness and only cares about profit and less about keeping customers happy how about this.....there are roughly 2.5million playbooks out in the wild many are unhappy without bb10. its proven fact happy customers spend money on more product, now even if 500,000 of those customers diddnt geta z10or q10 and say the other 2m did that's around 1 billion dollers .....so from a buisness stand point....your probably right ..... we don't need to keep the playbook users happy........we don't want their happiness or their money
    how you figured 2m PB user will magically decide to buy a z10? you do realized PB got 2.5m users because it was getting sold for around 149dollars. there is no correlation between that and ppl buying another bb product, esepcially the z10.
    05-17-13 02:06 PM
  18. SparkyBC's Avatar
    Blackberry can't deliver on what was stated numerous times a BB10 upgrade for ALL PB devices. Don't deliver it's the same old RIM. Why would they want a Z10 when they don't deliver?

    They will stick to a platform that already can run circles around Blackberry. No incentive to support them than. Just look how they crippled the Bridge function! Same old RIM now Blackberry....

    AS CEO Thor is doing a pathetic job with the PB. Either admit it's dead once and for all, or give a real date. Something Blackberry has never delivered on, it's always vague roadmaps.
    Orange UK likes this.
    05-17-13 02:09 PM
  19. Xano's Avatar
    If Apple launch is rumored low cost iPhone, BB sales will sink, then I want to ear epic Thor phrases that Apple is dead!
    Orange UK likes this.
    05-17-13 02:27 PM
  20. Orange UK's Avatar
    WP had one good quarter where BB10 wasn't on the market yet. One good quarter doesn't make a trend.

    From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10
    I agree but that quarter had BIS products....the future don't. Xbox 720 tie in to WP8.5 will bite every mobile OS...even Sony & Playstation (again why Playbook and not Powerbook marketing?) are lagging.
    05-17-13 03:24 PM
  21. Orange UK's Avatar
    How many of that two million are also phone subscribers? Can they afford to lose a bunch of them?
    Well less now than ever thanks to BB pulling the BISness in a downward spiral.
    05-17-13 03:27 PM
  22. Barracuda7772's Avatar
    how you figured 2m PB user will magically decide to buy a z10? you do realized PB got 2.5m users because it was getting sold for around 149dollars. there is no correlation between that and ppl buying another bb product, esepcially the z10.
    I said potential buyers. inthe same way theybare potential defectors
    05-17-13 04:36 PM
  23. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Exactly I have bought 2 Z10 units since launch, and had planned to buy some more BB10 phones to upgrade my family over the rest of the year (5 phones total before Christmas). Now that BBM is going cross platform, and one of the main reasons I bought BlackBerry phones for my kids was to keep in touch with them via BBM, why do I need to get them BlackBerry phones now? I could get them Nexus4 for less, or an iPhone for almost same price, and not have to hear about app deficiencies that I'm hearing about from the one with the Z10. I can can get them Google Play or iTunes cards and let them download whatever they want from music to apps, since it appears that BlackBerry can't release a simple BlackBerry World Card because they bent over and gave carriers carrier billing and I guess [SARCASM] don't want to pi$$ off their biggest supporters, the carriers[/SARCASM].

    RIM made a lot of mistakes over the years, and really ignored what the end user wanted, and the results are obvious with the latest marketshare numbers. BlackBerry has a lot of sucking up to do to pay for the sins of the father, and honoring commitments should be a top priority, especially with them recently devaluing the ecosystem by going cross platform with BBM. BB10 is a great OS, but with a weak ecosystem, and still weak dev support, and now BBM going cross platform, the other platforms may be better option. Existing users will either be their greatest salesman, or if not happy, their biggest problem. Fact: A happy customer will tell one or two other people they are happy with and recommend a product or service; an unhappy customer will tell 7 to 8 people that they are unhappy with a product or service and tell people not purchase said product or service.
    Some of these responses (from the long term guys here) should be compiled and forwarded to Thorstein Heins..
    JeepBB likes this.
    05-17-13 06:02 PM
  24. CrackBerry Kevin's Avatar
    Doing up a blog post on this right now.... will let everybody vent their frustrations up on the homepage!

    At the BBLive event the only official message was that there was no update at this time and when they have news to share they will. Also was clear that they're focusing their resources and investment on the future (which I take to mean it's not a priority for them to spend a bunch of time updating a 2+ year old device to run BB10). Though nobody said to me it's definitely not coming.
    05-17-13 06:51 PM
  25. lnichols's Avatar
    I agree but that quarter had BIS products....the future don't. Xbox 720 tie in to WP8.5 will bite every mobile OS...even Sony & Playstation (again why Playbook and not Powerbook marketing?) are lagging.
    We've heard Windows Phone will dominate since 7 was released. Never happened. I don't see the 720 causing people to abandone established phone platforms.

    Posted via CB10
    05-17-13 06:55 PM
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