01-10-15 11:24 PM
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  1. anon5642627's Avatar
    This is a big post (so please be patient and thoughtful about comments/responses) in response to the last 24 hours around the BB10 announcement and targeted specifically at the Playbook and its users. I live in the UK.

    I am approaching retirement age, have worked in IT for 35 years and have seen so much technology go under the bridge. Some brilliant technology has gone to waste because companies could not manage it effectively IBMs OS2 (although much of that seems to have turned up in Windows since) and Palm WebOS spring to mind that is my humble opinion so please do not beat me up on this statement, it is not really the point of this post.

    Usually it is the simple things engineered & managed very well that are the best - the gimmicks rarely last, believe me (however, I have this dream of a voice controlled phone & data connection device on my wrist/belt with a tablet for setup, text based input and more sophisticated apps but I know it isnt likely to happen).

    Firstly, can we please drop the iOS/Android killer thinking and the need to trash the opposition at any opportunity I firmly believe that all these platforms can suit the different needs & priorities that people have. After much research & analysis when I finished my main career (managing staff across sites and needing roaming access to corporate mail/calendar, etc.) I determined that I was not an iOS/iTunes or Android person but very much still a Blackberry one. The solutions from RIM and their network partners suited me functionally and financially. I followed the same approach trying to advise my daughters (one is settled on iOS, the other Android) and my wife (who tried WebOS but now is also BB).

    Secondly can Blackberry be successful over the next few years ? If there are enough potential customers out there like us two then Blackberry have a market. If they can develop a new platform that addresses more/different requirements and therefore widens the customer base, good luck to them. At the end of the day Blackberry exists to make a profit for their owners/shareholders. I personally believe that they also care quite a lot about the customer base and the solutions they require but if it is not a viable business proposition the bottom line is they do not owe their customers a thing other than their legal rights on sale of goods.

    If you do not like what they are doing then please inform them in a thoughtful & concise way what your issues are if enough people do this it can supplement the market research that they must surely be doing and adjust their thinking if it is relevant/viable. If Crackberry can be our champion and help to get good feedback through to Blackberry that might be useful.

    Until I can get my hands on a Z10 or Q10 to check out if it suits me I will reserve judgement but at first sight it looks promising for me.

    And now the Playbook

    After a few years using BB OS 5&6 devices alongside Windows the Playbook arrived, just at the same time as we started to consider a lifestyle change. Over the previous two years I had been spending much of my spare time maintaining Windows & anti-virus on a laptop and very little time using it.

    The concept of a tablet device that could provide a highly portable & bigger UI via Bridge to my BB apps/data, at the same time as offering local & WiFi access to web & personal media, truly hit the spot. I bought our first 64GB Playbook at full price (albeit using some vouchers to reduce the cash cost to 250). A few months ago we bought a second 64GB PB when my wifes requirements justified it and it was a real bargain at 129.

    We did not need a native email or calendar app or games or a brilliant camera on either BB or Playbook if they can take snaps or handle simple video conferencing that is fine. I could connect it to my full-HD TV if I wanted to, with OS v2 I could do some neat remote control from my Bold 9790 if I wanted, we could use 3G on BB to access web if WiFi not available. We still use a top-end Win7 laptop for DSLR photo imaging and managing our music library, synching to BB & PB as required to access music in the car etc.

    Since then I have added the side-loaded Kindle app (would love it to be native), Overdrive for access to free ebooks & audio books from the public library and Viewranger for high quality map data thats it really.

    I would like to be better organised but have not yet had time to explore the options of Evernote etc. I dont want a fancy file structure/manager on either BB or PB after many years of data/information management fashions/solutions the target environment is probably a single data store and files tagged with metadata to allow you to find them by context (sounds like BB10 Remember ?). Sharing is a different matter and possibly relies on synch'ing or moving selected records to cloud storage that supports tags/metadata, rather than sending copies to relatives & friends.

    Personally I would rather choose my apps from specialist third parties than expect or wait for Blackberry to deliver them with the device let them concentrate on good hardware and operating system that facilitates the efficient development of high quality & cost effective apps. If they want to develop apps & services (free or paid) in parallel to underpin the hardware market then let them stand or fall on Blackberry World in open competition with the rest just make sure the ecosystem makes it easy & cost effective for users & developers.

    So, to the point, what do I want from Blackberry, BB10 & the Playbook ?

    I think we need Blackberry to publish a new & honest rationale & roadmap for the Playbook if they have one or tell us what their issues, choices, position & plan are. It would be very disappointing if they stumble along the same route as Palm & HP with WebOS & the Touchpad. Be bold !

    Assuming that the Playbook is kept going, I think I would like to upgrade my Bold to a Q10, so would need Bridge + PB to support the Q10 when available. It might be tricky to fully support some of the new BB10 apps so a pragmatic subset would be a good start, with a clear statement on what is possible/impossible & when.

    With the same assumption, presumably Blackberry 10 is the only sustainable development platform for BB & PB apps going forward, so the sooner PB joins the BB10 family the better ideally taking the current hardware with it perhaps the performance will be good enough if we are honest . whilst my i7 laptop really flies I was perfectly happy with Office 2007 on a Pentium 4 !

    However, if the Playbook (v1 or the whole thing) is at best stabilised or at worst terminated it would be the honourable thing for Blackberry to facilitate the hardware being loaded with another OS if that is in fact possible. I do not know which if any of the versions of Android could support the hardware. If the apps I have on PB OSv2 continue to run and accept the data they need over the next 2-3 years then perhaps I will have had my moneys worth. If I am increasingly unable to connect/synch with email accounts & media sources I will be much less happy of course.

    Thats it folks

    To those who got this far without losing the will to live, thanks for your attention & patience. To those who simply want to trash the efforts of those whose career it is to innovate how would you feel as a target ?
    01-31-13 08:00 AM
  2. Wongsky's Avatar
    Despite displaying my pet hate of using '&' where you should be really typing "and", I stuck with it.

    The key for any such vendor is understanding the market (and yes, I've also worked in corporate IT for decades). If the company cannot innovate sufficiently to define the users needs (eg Apple, I suppose to a certain degree, Google) then it next has to understand and provide products that meet what most people want from them, at least to the degree of sustainable uptake. The problem with the tablet market is that it's diverse and somewhat undefined. It's like nukes - they've got to have them - but more than that, it's either undefined, or wildly divergent what the user audience will want to do with them - as an example, many people buying tablets have no true established perspective of really what they want, beyond the basics - bit of browsing, email, maybe a bit of media (eg video / music).

    Many players in the tablet arena, already sell mobile / cell phones - so there's potential for some degree of either convergence, or capitalising on an established user base. RIM / BlackBerry seemed to have that, to a certain degree, with business use - but perhaps their USP, secure business use. And despite anything else being said about the PlayBook, it's true USP was security - device level encryption and security standards that met several government standards / requirements.

    Problem is, by that point, those that choose to proselytise had already claimed the iPad as the device that business gets done on. Doesn't necessarily matter whether it's true or expansive enough - repeated sufficiently, and it does tend to become the axiom.

    So, with that not being truly exploited with the PlayBook, it had domestic begging rights to fight for in the tablet market. Problem is - there was already two ferociously competing OSs, so unless you've got some attribute(s) that would hold sway in such a marketplace, there's rarely any chance to prevail, as a 3rd OS contender. Regardless of whether the OS is excellent, device built with quality to be envied by even the top end of the existing products, those are qualities that are only destined to appeal to a vanishingly insignificant demographic.

    So they did the next best thing - they sold them at heavily discounted prices.

    Gets them off the shelves, gets some revenue and market share, and some buy-in from the potential user base. Problem is, the early users will be disgruntled on two counts (if not more...) - 1) the deft and radical drop in selling price, 2) the core features were severely limited at the outset. And for new adopters, there's still some issues - key features / apps are still either missing or poorly catered for, and there's that irritating mantra - that the application ecosystem is not as expansive as either Android's or iOs'.

    Nevertheless, there's a decent sized demographic that's reasonably happy with the PlayBook - I include myself in this group - reasonably late adopters, who got their PlayBook for a good price, and realised the quality of both the hardware and OS, and can live with the application / infrastructure weaknesses. Problem is, all they've really done, is manage to keep some users on side with the PlayBook, but never truly addressed the whole piece. And you see they have different battles to fight - most just have to provide a decent enough spec of hardware to run Android on, currently, though, RIM / BlackBerry have to play new_kid_old_kid_on_the_block with the likes of Apple, given their current paradigm in terms of devices and OS.

    Can they really compete in the tablet market? Well I'd have to say, they won't prevail as they have done already - I'm sure the revenue stream can't be sustainable. To compete with the incumbents they have to provide a truly valid alternative - and that means not having glaring weaknesses in either software or app support, or truly trading on that which does make the PlayBook great. The OS is, IMO, great - but squandered. BB10 may have the wings with both convergence and attributes to be able to do so ongoing, with their handsets and current tablet device (which still has decent enough hardware chops to just about still cut it).

    IMO to succeed, going forward, in the tablet marketspace, they'll need to leverage all (and more) of BB10 in the handset market (and hope it truly is the silver bullet many have been hoping for), in whatever tablet device has any decent footage, currently. To my mind, that means they haven't got loads of time to squander on that, unless they are going to abandon the tablet market. New devices take time to get into the market, and take time for their retail prices to normalise such that they're a decent proposition. Realistically, the only way to look good in this segment, whilst the clock is ticking, is to show BB10 is competent on your already sizable user base - because big numbers won't come to something new, unless it looks compelling. And so far, the only thing that's been truly compelling for the market and the PlayBook, has been it being sold at heavily discounted prices.

    If I've learnt anything about the tablet market, it's this - you can only truly go with premium prices, if you truly have something that will easily compete, and slightly better, anything currently trading at premium prices. I can't help but think the take-up of BB10 handsets and audience participation and appraisal is what will green-light or red-light anything new on the tablet front for RIM / BlackBerry. BB10 on the PlayBook will probably play a significant part in that soap opera - problem is, they can't leave it too late - they're already a dollar short, a day late. Reviewers, and customers for that matter, won't be swayed with top-end hardware and a truly great OS. Some may be swayed by all those things, IF it competes on price, and people can actually DO what they want / need on the device.

    None of that is from my own personal perspective, I'm happy with my PlayBook on .1314, and bar the omission of a couple of apps (see what I did there?) for me personally, it would be near perfect. So I'm not in a terrible rush for BB10 on the PlayBook - problem is, the clock's ticking, and I don't mean the likes of forum members posting impatiently about it - I mean the market never sleeps - to not remain a lame duck and non-entity, they need to be something people are truly talking about (in a good way) and people are interested in.
    01-31-13 09:23 AM
  3. sad_old_man's Avatar
    I am totally astonished. My faith in human nature has been restored. Not one but two intelligent people thinking and saying exactly what is paramount for RIM to build on their achievements and take the company and its products forward.

    If RIM do not sieze this opportunity right now they will be lost forever. With all due respect to him the new CEO of Apple is not equipped with the same instinctive natural ability of his predecessor, who by the way was brilliant. He not only created a good product, but had the ability to make people think that their lives would end if they didn't buy it. He is sadley no longer around and I forsee a decline in Apples ability to create innovative products and return to what they started out as, Apple/Mac as I know them graphics machines. It will take some time for the Apple fanatics to lose faith but now is the time for RIM to start marketing the name BlackBerry in the same way that Apple and Samsung do.

    The second separate issue is that RIM has to stop ignoring its customer base and respond to what they want. I am not talking nonparametric end user wish lists here but for example, don't force BB10 down everyone's throat because you want them to have it. Listen to them, respond quickly.

    I am just about to take delivery of BB 10 phone and even before it arrives part of me is already looking forward to disappointment. I will however systematically rip the OS apart but not from a technical aspect but from an end user perspective. If we all strives after the best technology, we would all have mainframes running in our homes.

    Anyway back to the brandy and I will let you know about the BB10 handset when it arrives.
    mpetrol, currygoat and jtv1 like this.
    01-31-13 10:13 AM
  4. jackpots's Avatar
    I think you have the same problem that you outlined that RIM exhibited...failure to know your audience.
    Be concise, and if the expansion is necessary, summarize first. Folks usually do not have five minutes to spend on a thread, much less one post.

    Regarding your sentiments, I concur. RIM is just hoping to be bought by another with deep pockets, so they do just enough that is looks good.
    jtv1 likes this.
    01-31-13 10:43 AM
  5. sad_old_man's Avatar
    I think you have the same problem that you outlined that RIM exhibited...failure to know your audience.
    Be concise, and if the expansion is necessary, summarize first. Folks usually do not have five minutes to spend on a thread, much less one post.

    Regarding your sentiments, I concur. RIM is just hoping to be bought by another with deep pockets, so they do just enough that is looks good.
    P's there is no 'Z' in summarise!

    What kind of brandy do you drink?
    01-31-13 10:49 AM
  6. ChrisMay's Avatar
    Some very good points raised above, coherently and eloquently put. I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment, and it's far better written than I could have managed. Not much I can add then, really except to say is there a way of making sure Blackberry's upper management get to see the points raised?? Does anyone from Blackberry ever read these forums?
    jtv1 and CairnsRock like this.
    01-31-13 11:06 AM
  7. jackpots's Avatar
    P's there is no 'Z' in summarise!

    What kind of brandy do you drink?
    Still funny...
    jtv1 likes this.
    01-31-13 11:10 AM
  8. Wongsky's Avatar
    I think you have the same problem that you outlined that RIM exhibited...failure to know your audience.
    Be concise, and if the expansion is necessary, summarize first. Folks usually do not have five minutes to spend on a thread, much less one post.

    Regarding your sentiments, I concur. RIM is just hoping to be bought by another with deep pockets, so they do just enough that is looks good.
    2 for 2 - my second pet hate - those talking about discussions being too long.

    You should know it makes me want to strike down upon them with great vengeance and furious anger.

    The texting generation have a lot to answer for, that's all I can say...

    Well, quite patently, it's not all I can say, but that's sort of thing just kinda wrote itself.
    jtv1 likes this.
    01-31-13 11:16 AM
  9. jackpots's Avatar
    Some very good points raised above, coherently and eloquently put. I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment, and it's far better written than I could have managed. Not much I can add then, really except to say is there a way of making sure Blackberry's upper management get to see the points raised?? Does anyone from Blackberry ever read these forums?
    The sentiments are not new...to RIM, to tech mgmt., or general business mgmt. They have a deficit of resources. Some of their issues are a catch-22. E.g., why Jan 30 for a lynch-pin product and not the previous Nov. 30, just before the biggest sales period, Not enough resources to push the product cycle, even though the result put the company in an even deeper hole. They need to capitalize on Apple's plug and map flub, and hope Samsung screws up somehow.
    01-31-13 11:29 AM
  10. Wongsky's Avatar
    The sentiments are not new...to RIM, to tech mgmt., or general business mgmt. They have a deficit of resources. Some of their issues are a catch-22. E.g., why Jan 30 for a lynch-pin product and not the previous Nov. 30, just before the biggest sales period, Not enough resources to push the product cycle, even though the result put the company in an even deeper hole. They need to capitalize on Apple's plug and map flub, and hope Samsung screws up somehow.
    I disagree it's all about resources - it's not - not all. Some of it is about flexibility and adaptability, and reading the market, too.

    Yes, yes, yes, I know the natural counter is that with sufficient resources they could be flexible, or adaptable, or quick to respond, but that's not living in the real world.

    Their issue isn't one of purely resource, it's focus. They have a limited window of opportunity. Problem is they have baggage in terms of tradition, expectation and current inertia.

    The "work smarter" ethos shouldn't be lost, here - problem is, that can often mean bold steps. And when companies are normally a biscuit away from falling share prices or hostile takeovers, many retreat behind conservativeness and risk aversion.

    The relatively safe money is on BB10 new handsets and their core revenue stream. Their launch window in terms of the tablet marketspace has already been narrowed by poor completion, and natural hesitation over what to do next, there.
    01-31-13 11:48 AM
  11. jpash549's Avatar
    Blackberry does not have to beat Apple or Android. BB just needs to get a big enough chunk of the market. That includes many other places besides Canada, US and UK.
    jtv1 and dmlis like this.
    01-31-13 01:27 PM
  12. sad_old_man's Avatar
    Blackberry does not have to beat Apple or Android. BB just needs to get a big enough chunk of the market. That includes many other places besides Canada, US and UK.
    I can't use big words because I'm not as clever as what you all are, but does the core essence of a good business in any field depend upon a relatively decent product, which RIM has, but more importantly a solid customer base. With these two aspects in place you can use the profits generated to expand and improve your product range and increase your customer base. This in turn will start the inevitable cycle of growth and expansion that most companies desire.

    RIM have the products, they have the customer base. The problem is that the fundamental customer base is very unstable. They increase their customers with new sales campaigns. The new customers love the product but inevitably suffer problems which RIM don't listen to or take no notice of. The customers leave and they are back to square one with the only visible long term financial gain is a hefty marketing bill.

    By the way I have no idea why I am explaining the basic rudiments of simple business to people far cleverer than what I am. (soory for that I just couldn't help myself)

    However if we are all done here I would like to sample the bourbon that a good member of this forum recommended to me in another post.
    goodcoffy and jtv1 like this.
    01-31-13 01:57 PM
  13. Bad Whippet's Avatar
    I appreciate your post as a VERY new Blackberry Playbook owner who has never owned any Blackberry product before. Be kind - I'm new here, but I bought my Playbook in the full knowledge that I might very well be buying something at the end of the line, and what isn't 'out there' for it now might never be there for it. Didn't care. After being given a 16Gb version, I loved it so much I bought a 64Gb tablet.

    It's maybe not all lost - not if BB realises they're inadvertently filling a new niche in the market: since the price slash, it is finally possible to obtain a 64Gb tablet with similar hardware quality of an iPad Mini, with media support surpassing the Galaxy range, for the price of a lesser-storage Kindle. 130 for THIS kind of quality??? I fear this new price is actually a loss-maker just to shift the units, but it is a segment of the market that was devoid of anything decent for those of us who could only weep with envy at Apple, Google and Samsung offerings.

    EDIT: since buying mine, Currys and PC World have jacked the price of the 64Gb back up to 149.99. Maybe they're feeling a bit more confidence in it now.
    jtv1 likes this.
    01-31-13 03:33 PM
  14. sad_old_man's Avatar
    I appreciate your post as a VERY new Blackberry Playbook owner who has never owned any Blackberry product before. Be kind - I'm new here, but I bought my Playbook in the full knowledge that I might very well be buying something at the end of the line, and what isn't 'out there' for it now might never be there for it. Didn't care. After being given a 16Gb version, I loved it so much I bought a 64Gb tablet.

    It's maybe not all lost - not if BB realises they're inadvertently filling a new niche in the market: since the price slash, it is finally possible to obtain a 64Gb tablet with similar hardware quality of an iPad Mini, with media support surpassing the Galaxy range, for the price of a lesser-storage Kindle. 130 for THIS kind of quality??? I fear this new price is actually a loss-maker just to shift the units, but it is a segment of the market that was devoid of anything decent for those of us who could only weep with envy at Apple, Google and Samsung offerings.

    EDIT: since buying mine, Currys and PC World have jacked the price of the 64Gb back up to 149.99. Maybe they're feeling a bit more confidence in it now.
    Welcome and congratulations on owning a pb. I think you slightly misunderstand what I am probably very badly attempting to say. The pb is a far superior piece of hardware, IMHO far better than any other tablet on the market. However, the hardware only provides the means to enable software to perform its tasks. The pb has had a very tormented childhood but is now growing up and if it is guided in the right direction will be a valuable asset to any family. It may not be in RIM's family but will be adopted by one of the many companies out there that cannot wait to get their hands on Blackberry.

    Enjoy you pb and welcome to the family.
    jtv1 likes this.
    01-31-13 04:05 PM
  15. Wongsky's Avatar
    I can't use big words because I'm not as clever as what you all are, but does the core essence of a good business in any field depend upon a relatively decent product, which RIM has, but more importantly a solid customer base. With these two aspects in place you can use the profits generated to expand and improve your product range and increase your customer base. This in turn will start the inevitable cycle of growth and expansion that most companies desire.
    Maybe not even quite that ethereal - at it's core, it's just supply and demand.

    Sure, I suppose some people could theorise about untapped customers and filling some niche - but aiming for what will only ever likely be a decreasing demograph, doesn't strike you as good business sense.
    RIM have the products, they have the customer base. The problem is that the fundamental customer base is very unstable. They increase their customers with new sales campaigns. The new customers love the product but inevitably suffer problems which RIM don't listen to or take no notice of. The customers leave and they are back to square one with the only visible long term financial gain is a hefty marketing bill.
    See I'm not totally convinced - at least where the PlayBook was concerned, they truly had the products - by that I mean the hardware was unquestionably solid and well executed, the OS done well - not that I ever sampled it personally that early on - but quite possibly from the outset. But if some fundamental needs aren't catered for, and if there's some poignant gaps in things that would be expected - perhaps even assumed to be covered - then they didn't truly have the product.

    And if at the outset, you price at a premium, it's beholden you can stand toe-to-toe with the competition.

    They had a customer base - perhaps a bit of mystique about it early on. But here's the thing - unless you can actually stimulate desire out of the ether for something (a la Apple) then you're going to have to a) compete or b) hope there's some diminishing scraps of the market you can mop-up on. a) demands a solid offering, with perhaps something of distinction, at good value; b) is long term (or perhaps even medium term) quite poor strategy.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, doing what BlackBerry nee RIM did with pricing of the PlayBook and such heavy discounts, may well prove to be a very savvy decision. They have continued software support and development over the PlayBooks life, that has delivered solid improvement, and it's claimed that a notable OS upgrade is on the horizon in the form of the silver bullet of BB10.

    So repositioning the PlayBook away from perhaps their initial target, may have benefits - but they can't afford to squander that. Development of anything takes time and is a big risk on the back of the first attempt having to change tack mid-stream. To continue in the tablet market, and make best use of the user audience they currently have, is potential - but for all sorts of reasons, the blinds are closing on that window of opportunity.

    I'm not a long-term BB customer - although other family members have used BB phones for a couple of years, I personally have only entered this mad, mad world by impulse purchase of a PlayBook about 4 or 5 months back. On the back of that, I've been considering a BB handset in a few months when my mobile contract is up for renewal. BB10 won't truly influence that for me personally - and as things stand I'll probably still go for a BB handset. But then I've nothing really invested and never really buy into vendors too much. I stuck with Nokia for as long as they didn't ruin what was their excellent mapping / sat nav software on their handsets, but now they've taken to dumbing that down, it's no longer a draw for me, and as although I have a couple of Android tablets, I'm not in any hurry to actually have an Android handset. As for iPhones - well I'm no hater, but in terms of bang for pound (oh go on, then, buck) they haven't won me over.

    Thing is, in the number that will have bought PlayBooks due to their heavily reduced price tag, there's surely potential on more than one front. Problem is, I suspect that was far from their initial strategy - and big companies rarely succeed at adaptation and evolution. Like when you're playing pool - you can pull off a fluke - some will take credit as if they planned it all along - and in doing so, look like idiots - some can acknowledge their dumb luck and then capitalise. From where I'm sat, at least some of their success, at least in the tablet market space, is about how they play it until the shot timer goes off.
    By the way I have no idea why I am explaining the basic rudiments of simple business to people far cleverer than what I am. (soory for that I just couldn't help myself)
    Somebody has to talk about booze. Personally, I'm a bit of a philistine when it comes to it - so I rely on the connoisseurs out there to enlighten me, not so much for my own consumption, you understand - merely that I don't appear as ******** where the finest wines known to man are discussed in polite company, doncha know.
    However if we are all done here I would like to sample the bourbon that a good member of this forum recommended to me in another post.
    See.

    Before this, the only time I'd heard about bourbon were bourbon creams.

    Some, most, or all of that may be lies...
    01-31-13 04:05 PM
  16. sad_old_man's Avatar
    Wow, that post was very good. I don't understand it because everyone here uses big long words and things wot I don't understand. However because of this forum I am signing up for a distance learning course that teaches big long words like cornflakes and budwiser. It is based in Mexico but I have it on good authority that they will teach me how to spell tequila and other such words.

    When I've finished the course I will read your post again and get back to you. Hey maybe bb10 will be on the pb by then?
    jtv1 likes this.
    01-31-13 04:25 PM
  17. dmlis's Avatar
    Blackberry does not have to beat Apple or Android. BB just needs to get a big enough chunk of the market. That includes many other places besides Canada, US and UK.
    True.
    They are doing quite well in Indonesia and several countries in Africa. There are other markets untapped, I'm sure.
    In my country of residence (Ukraine, 46 mln population, 125% mobile penetration), Blackberry is hardly known outside of corporate community and Playbooks are priced below obscure Chinese brands.
    01-31-13 04:27 PM
  18. sad_old_man's Avatar
    True.
    They are doing quite well in Indonesia and several countries in Africa. There are other markets untapped, I'm sure.
    In my country of residence (Ukraine, 46 mln population, 125% mobile penetration), Blackberry is hardly known outside of corporate community and Playbooks are priced below obscure Chinese brands.
    Does they drink brandy in the Ukraine?
    01-31-13 04:35 PM
  19. Wongsky's Avatar
    Wow, that post was very good. I don't understand it because everyone here uses big long words and things wot I don't understand.
    Don't be hatin' on the big long words - they have feelings too.

    Plus, you don't wanna be 3 for 3 with my pet hates in this thread...

    But seriously... when did society fall outta love with this beautiful language? Such that to have a vocabulary and be eloquent is some kind of indictment? We need a movement in the opposite way - some kinda multi-coloured flag, and pride marches, so that dumbing down is on (well off, I suppose) the agenda, too.
    However because of this forum I am signing up for a distance learning course that teaches big long words like cornflakes and budwiser. It is based in Mexico but I have it on good authority that they will teach me how to spell tequila and other such words.
    Listening to Tito Peunte records is mandatory, so I hear.

    Maybe it's time to step away from the drinks cabinet for 24 hours? I heared a rumour, whilst just outside the three mile limit, that if you can't spell Budweiser, you may have a problem.
    When I've finished the course I will read your post again and get back to you. Hey maybe bb10 will be on the pb by then?
    Don't be a stranger.

    And Spanish is such a beautiful language - never mind that greek business, the latin languages are the words of the gods. As to BB10 on the PB, it's always maana, man.
    jtv1 likes this.
    02-01-13 04:26 AM
  20. sad_old_man's Avatar
    Don't be hatin' on the big long words - they have feelings too.

    Plus, you don't wanna be 3 for 3 with my pet hates in this thread...

    But seriously... when did society fall outta love with this beautiful language? Such that to have a vocabulary and be eloquent is some kind of indictment? We need a movement in the opposite way - some kinda multi-coloured flag, and pride marches, so that dumbing down is on (well off, I suppose) the agenda, too.

    Listening to Tito Peunte records is mandatory, so I hear.

    Maybe it's time to step away from the drinks cabinet for 24 hours? I heared a rumour, whilst just outside the three mile limit, that if you can't spell Budweiser, you may have a problem.

    Don't be a stranger.

    And Spanish is such a beautiful language - never mind that greek business, the latin languages are the words of the gods. As to BB10 on the PB, it's always maana, man.
    It's taken me three hours to read that thread and I still don't understand it. I understand the pet hates bit but not actually what yours are. As for the Spanish bit remember I'm related to Francis Drake so I don't understand that. I do however love Rioja and with your reference to Greece I do have two homes on the island of Zakinthos.

    I do listen to music but I use CDs because records seem to have disappeared in the UK so it's easier to buy CDs.

    The only thing I cannot concur with you about is the part where you stay away from the drinks cabinet for 24hrs. I actually broke out into a cold sweat while I read that comment. Are you insane or do you just like inflicting mental cruelty on a mere moron like myself.

    I'm going to go and cry now whilst I sample my newly aquired bourbon and try not to let my tears water it down.

    Oh the shame of it! How could you..........
    jtv1 and kbz1960 like this.
    02-01-13 06:58 AM
  21. Wongsky's Avatar
    It's taken me three hours to read that thread and I still don't understand it. I understand the pet hates bit but not actually what yours are. As for the Spanish bit remember I'm related to Francis Drake so I don't understand that. I do however love Rioja and with your reference to Greece I do have two homes on the island of Zakinthos.
    All my exes live in Texas.
    I do listen to music but I use CDs because records seem to have disappeared in the UK so it's easier to buy CDs.
    Sometimes you have to suffer for your art. I'll leave that to you to decide whether that's listening to Tito Peunte, or listening to Tito Peunte on vinyl.
    The only thing I cannot concur with you about is the part where you stay away from the drinks cabinet for 24hrs. I actually broke out into a cold sweat while I read that comment. Are you insane or do you just like inflicting mental cruelty on a mere moron like myself.
    Surely being insane and cruel are rather complementary bedfellows? Can't a man be both?
    I'm going to go and cry now whilst I sample my newly aquired bourbon and try not to let my tears water it down.
    See when I cry over my bourbon creams it just makes them all soggy.
    Oh the shame of it! How could you..........
    24 hours, yes?

    Think of it as a cooling off period.
    02-01-13 07:09 AM
  22. sad_old_man's Avatar
    All my exes live in Texas.

    Sometimes you have to suffer for your art. I'll leave that to you to decide whether that's listening to Tito Peunte, or listening to Tito Peunte on vinyl.

    Surely being insane and cruel are rather complementary bedfellows? Can't a man be both?

    See when I cry over my bourbon creams it just makes them all soggy.

    24 hours, yes?

    Think of it as a cooling off period.
    Don't eat biscuits because I don't drink tea so I have nothing to dip them in and I have tried abstinence, once for a whole 9hrs. I was asleep at the time but I know that if I had been awake I wouldn't have liked it so I don't do it anymore.

    I always thought a cooling off period pertains to distance shopping?

    Try the drinks cabinet, you know you want to. We could always meet in Greece or New Zealand and discuss the beauty of various nectars that they have to offer us?
    02-01-13 07:24 AM
  23. kbz1960's Avatar
    Sad_old_man you are a hoot. I have nothing to add on the subject.
    sad_old_man likes this.
    02-01-13 08:15 AM
  24. sad_old_man's Avatar
    Sad_old_man you are a hoot. I have nothing to add on the subject.
    Steady on there poppet. Lets state the rules right now very clearly. This does not in any way affect my statutory rights to refuse to share my drinks cabinet with you, or come to think of it my cellar, or come to think of it my car. Although you may win it in the competition?
    02-01-13 08:53 AM
  25. kbz1960's Avatar
    Steady on there poppet. Lets state the rules right now very clearly. This does not in any way affect my statutory rights to refuse to share my drinks cabinet with you, or come to think of it my cellar, or come to think of it my car. Although you may win it in the competition?
    Oh good a competition. But I'd rather just share
    02-01-13 09:07 AM
42 12

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