04-02-13 06:41 AM
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  1. Barracuda7772's Avatar
    Thinking of getting a used Playbook but am not sure whether 16GB refurb or 32GB used. Any sense about whether the 16GB will get the OS10 update or will it (possibly) need to have 32GB or higher?
    I have a 16 gig and for me personally its more than enough my about page says I have 109 apps installed 3 large 3d games around 500mb each and everything I need and I have 8.8 gigs available so once I finish those games I will have around just over 10 gigs free.

    so all that to say were golden
    bluenote likes this.
    03-18-13 08:19 PM
  2. NursingNinja's Avatar
    I have said--and still believe--the actual purpose of the PlayBook was to test a QNX based mobile operating system in the hands of end users. That's right, we were all beta testers. And we paid for the privilege. I have never minded helping BlackBerry get BB10 to the market sooner. And the PlayBook has been my constant companion. I'm posting this from it right now.
    If that's the case I think they didn't anticipate the hit the playbook sales flop was to their stocks! They could not have done that intentionally. I think they did actually intend for the playbook to be a corporate success because of the bridge functionality.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    03-18-13 08:31 PM
  3. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Frankly, this is one brain-dead design decision that I've always wondered about. When I connect the cable to my PB, my first instinct is to align the "fat" side of the micro-USB head with the front of the tablet. It just seems like the naturally "correct" orientation. The fact that the much larger and more visible HDMI port is oriented this way only makes it that much more visually confusing. So I can see why many users make this mistake and end up forcing the cable head (thus damaging the port). If BB has simply oriented the port in the other direction it might have cut down on the incidences of "broken port syndrome" by 50% or more.

    My solution: Rapid charger (I have both models). I only use the USB port when I want to transfer large files or need to resuscitate the device after an accidental 100% battery discharge (i.e. Antair Nightstand + PB poorly seated in the charging dock - a.k.a. why my wife and technology don't mix).

    Bottom Line: Nothing beats a torque-free magnetic coupling...

    RCK
    The USB orientation seems correct to me. Every other BB (and almost every other USB I've seen) has the fat side down. The BB logo is always on the top of the small side of the cable. Other USB cables I have actually say "UP" on the small side of the connector.
    03-18-13 08:31 PM
  4. Toodeurep's Avatar
    I am still confused, I thought it was the...
    Co CEOs
    Storm
    Physical Keyboard
    Limited OS
    Lack of understanding the market
    No new phones for a year

    that drove BB to the brink. Now you are telling me that it was the Playbook tablet? Huh, should have known.

    Apparently the Playbook wasn't for you or most of the world but blaming an accessory for temporary downslide in a multi-billion dollar corporation is plain silly. This 2 year old tablet can still do things that no other tablet could do until recently (if they can do them at all).

    Where I work, we continue to grow our fleet because it works for us. No promises of what is to come needed.
    Bbnivende and Barracuda7772 like this.
    03-18-13 09:02 PM
  5. anon(2325196)'s Avatar
    I love my PlayBook. I still use it all the time with my Z10. I'm buying a LTE version asap.
    03-18-13 09:59 PM
  6. anon(2325196)'s Avatar
    Love the bluetooth BlackBerry keyboard. Works awesome if you read the manual. To learn it has capabilities you may not immediately recognise.
    03-18-13 10:01 PM
  7. kingping_1951's Avatar
    I totally agree with you.
    03-18-13 10:03 PM
  8. anon(2325196)'s Avatar
    Sorry, third post, not spamming.

    I also have this Seagate rechargeable wifi hdd. I use the android app on both the PlayBook and th Z10. 500GB of storage. It can be diy modded to a ssd too. Anyways, also works great through the browsers to stream whatever.

    Then the simultaneous connection to the BlackBerry bluetooth keyboard, hdmi out, and the jawbone jambox is pretty cool and smooth. Use the Z10 the exact same same if you want.

    Or the Motorola bluetooth stereo headphones, if you prefer.

    Very capable tablet. That Seagate can also have firmware making it a NAS. Very cool.

    To keep things charged up a guy could use Mophie power stations for those third party devices and a BlackBerry portable battery charger bundle or two.
    03-18-13 10:12 PM
  9. red stripe's Avatar
    I am still confused, I thought it was the...
    Co CEOs
    Storm
    Physical Keyboard
    Limited OS
    Lack of understanding the market
    No new phones for a year

    that drove BB to the brink. Now you are telling me that it was the Playbook tablet? Huh, should have known.

    Apparently the Playbook wasn't for you or most of the world but blaming an accessory for temporary downslide in a multi-billion dollar corporation is plain silly. This 2 year old tablet can still do things that no other tablet could do until recently (if they can do them at all).

    Where I work, we continue to grow our fleet because it works for us. No promises of what is to come needed.
    Do you think a screwup in one part of a company inoculates it against other mistakes?

    You know what they say. A billion here, a billon there and pretty soon you are talking about some real money:
    PlayBook writeoff means RIM's tablet has been a $1.5bn mistake | Technology | guardian.co.uk
    03-18-13 10:26 PM
  10. sibeans's Avatar
    I agree with the OP's title. from a business strategy standpoint, it seems that at the time RIM chose to rush to market a "1st or 2nd to market" approach to quickly follow up the ipad release to take market share from other competitors (explains the lacking features of OS 1.0).

    I was taking a look at the ipad mini and noticed how many features like gesture-based UI navigation, multitasking, etc were decently executed but realising that these features were recently implemented is a great indicator that the foresight of the playbook's launch really put it ahead of its time....nowadays, the tablet competition is in the smaller form factor space with competing platforms (kindle fire, nexus 7, nook hd, ipad mini) and gesture-based UI's (magic hand waving of new samsungs, five finger swipes of iOS, etc.)
    Last edited by sibeans; 03-19-13 at 02:03 AM.
    Barracuda7772 likes this.
    03-19-13 01:53 AM
  11. BigFelter's Avatar
    It is possible BB just misunderstood the market. They may have believed the PlayBook would be widely adopted by enterprise customers. When viewed from that perspective, it makes more sense:

    The price was fine for enterprise sales. Companies that needed a secure, robust, highly-portable tablet would not bat an eye at the price. After all, there was nothing else in the market that had those features.

    The "missing" PIM apps did not matter. Those capabilities came from Bridge. This was a kind of early Balance. When you did not attach to Bridge, like if the PB was stolen, there would be no enterprise data or services on the device. When it was near the company issued BlackBerry, the company systems were available.

    The mistake was NOT the price or the lack of PIM apps. The mistake was not making clear to enterprises why the choices made in the design were sensible for enterprise customers. The failure of the marketing division was to let tech bloggers define the design as a failure instead of the clever idea it actually was.

    So who bought the early PlayBooks? Hard-core BlackBerry users. A few companies that saw past the press to the qualities of the device. Those of us who realized we could have a great, portable Web browser without needing to pay our carrier for the HotSpot feature on our phone. And, when the prices dropped enough, those who saw the PB was a good size, good hardware, a reliable multitasking OS that could run Android apps.
    +1

    Cheers!

    Posted via CB10
    03-19-13 03:05 AM
  12. mhmediaonline's Avatar
    Consumers said why would I buy a 7 inch Playbook when I can get a 10 inch Ipad for just a little more. The corporate/government sectors were busy giving their workers laptops that could run microsoft office and really did not need to give their EE's a BB, a laptop and a tablet. Then Apple ran their "I have an app for that" campaign and the rest is history.
    I bought a 7" over a 10" for the sheer convenience of being able to carry it around easier while still having a decent-size screen: it's a mobile device after all. The 10" thing is at home pretending it's a laptop..
    03-19-13 04:58 AM
  13. Toodeurep's Avatar
    I bought a 7" over a 10" for the sheer convenience of being able to carry it around easier while still having a decent-size screen: it's a mobile device after all...
    +1 to this portion
    03-19-13 05:58 AM
  14. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    except that it needs a really strong WIFI signal to work in a hotel etc. and none of the apps that I have wanted are available. It is fine at its price point.
    Bah - this is the bane of my existence when I travel. And it's not PlayBook specific. There are so many wifi devices in use now that it's often an utter pain in the *** to get a consistent WiFi signal on any of them.

    I was recently at a hotel where the signal would drop and then you had to re-accept the terms and conditions on its non-mobile friendly site every time it reconnected. Grrrrr!

    {rant off)
    03-19-13 07:08 AM
  15. 514berry's Avatar
    Dear Mr.514Berry,
    Why should developers build apps for BB10 based on spec. They need to see the sales of units. As for the "big- got to have apps ", I think BB should be providing some initial seed money to help defray the programming costs.
    I never said developers should build apps based on spec...but I can argue why not? I mean if you could get your product/content across to a consumer in a better, faster and more capable enviornment then why not? Blackberry wasn't doing to hot but they still had millions and millions of users. A good app selection in a 7" tablet may have held off users from leaving the brand by having a capable device to hold them off from buying a smartphone that does everything and more then your BB smartphone or tablet. Then as a consumer you think wow if IOS and android phones do more than the BB tablet then what can their tablets do? Developers do need to see sales of units somewhat and they shouldnt have to when you already have millions of users but how could Blackberry possibly expect sales with something that just doesn't deliver basics and what blackberry is known for ie. email. (I'm using email as an example because I think its the biggest **** up they made but we all know that a combination of missing features was what did the playbook in). If this was done properly they would have been the ones to force Apple in to making the Ipad mini. That move alone shows people didn't really care for a 10" tablet but a more portable and capable 7" tablet would be more attractive. My brother has a playbook and Ipad. He brings the Playbook outside the house because of its size and thats what all these tablets are made for no? To not carry around a laptop.

    And It does all come down to app's I mean you wouldn't buy a pc with 8gb of ram and a crazy processor if you could only basically browse the internet and couldn't even do email on it would you? And why would developers even take seed money or why would blackberry give seed money when they didn't even use it themselves to fully develop the platform with essential services such as native email capability? As a developer I'd think to myself wow this brand is gutsy ...they don't have the bare minimums and they want me to put my time in to building content? Lets wait and see how well this does before we do anything and because it was lacking in features out the gate it never caught on. Throwing money at a problem doesn't solve anything. You need to build confidence in your brand and that starts with developers not consumers. I feel the sales team didn't deliver and it explains why the Z10 is so lacking in apps. Developers saw the Playbook flop now it makes sense to wait and see sales before dumping money in to developing the brand.

    Blackberry must have released the playbook because they were under pressure to put out something new and it couldn't do a phone because they were working their new platform on a Playbook. The hardware ahead of its time I think so, user experince ahead of its time, yup I think so but as a whole it was a dinosaur fighting nuclear weapns.
    03-19-13 07:32 AM
  16. 514berry's Avatar
    I am still confused, I thought it was the...
    Co CEOs
    Storm
    Physical Keyboard
    Limited OS
    Lack of understanding the market
    No new phones for a year

    that drove BB to the brink. Now you are telling me that it was the Playbook tablet? Huh, should have known.

    Apparently the Playbook wasn't for you or most of the world but blaming an accessory for temporary downslide in a multi-billion dollar corporation is plain silly. This 2 year old tablet can still do things that no other tablet could do until recently (if they can do them at all).

    Where I work, we continue to grow our fleet because it works for us. No promises of what is to come needed.
    I think you make great points about what did them in except for maybe co-ceo's. They were very successful with co-ceo's. If the ceo's didnt make all those mistakes you mentioned then they'd probably still be around and my stock would be doing a lot better lol Everyone made a big deal about co-ceo's because you couldn't just get rid of one to shake up the company...You had to remove both.

    What can the 2 year old playbook do that I can't do with an Android or IOS device old or current? I have 5 playbooks...and I owned an Android device. Please I would really like to know...
    03-19-13 07:35 AM
  17. Toodeurep's Avatar
    I think you make great points about what did them in except for maybe co-ceo's. They were very successful with co-ceo's. If the ceo's didnt make all those mistakes you mentioned then they'd probably still be around and my stock would be doing a lot better lol Everyone made a big deal about co-ceo's because you couldn't just get rid of one to shake up the company...You had to remove both.

    What can the 2 year old playbook do that I can't do with an Android or IOS device old or current? I have 5 playbooks...and I owned an Android device. Please I would really like to know...
    My co-CEO comment was just a repeat of what others are always saying caused BBs downfall. For all I know it could have just been dumb luck. I don't care, they still support my devices and I like my devices that is all that matters to me.

    What can the PB do that others maybe cannot? Start a video capture of a presentation, now open the browser and do a quick fact check of something the presenter just said. The video capture never stopped. The same can be said for most other apps. The video keeps recording. Works for audio files as well. My daughter has made several songs (songs to her) by playing a piano app and singing at the same time.
    03-19-13 09:03 AM
  18. 514berry's Avatar
    My co-CEO comment was just a repeat of what others are always saying caused BBs downfall. For all I know it could have just been dumb luck. I don't care, they still support my devices and I like my devices that is all that matters to me.

    What can the PB do that others maybe cannot? Start a video capture of a presentation, now open the browser and do a quick fact check of something the presenter just said. The video capture never stopped. The same can be said for most other apps. The video keeps recording. Works for audio files as well. My daughter has made several songs (songs to her) by playing a piano app and singing at the same time.
    Dumb luck or 2 stubborn CEO's lol If you do some web searches there are many successful companies out there with co-ceo's. And I guess in that thoery Samsung is now doomed to fail with their 2 newly appointed ceo's making them have a total of 3!!

    It can definitely be done on Android. I can't confirm on the IOS but I use to record a video and play music at the same time on my Android to have a track playing while I record video. I assume it would work the same way to open a browser the same way I open the music player but I don't have my android anymore to test it.The secret camera app would probably do it regardless, I had that spy cam app and I could run anything with the video recording on. I jsut tried to do this on my Z10 and it doesn't work...The second you minimize the the video recording to jump to another app it pauses. Not a feature I really care for myself but I'm sure your daughter would have an easier time recording with a smaller device rather than holding up the playbook to record...
    03-19-13 10:13 AM
  19. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Agree with the points raised that it was too early to market. Not sure how they'd run the business to make it profitable though.

    I've often believed that them waiting 6 months, launching with what was OS 2.0 and at - say $349 - would have resulted in a better situation. Doubt it would have dented Apple's might at all, but maybe we'd have 6 million PlayBook users instead of 2 million. They certainly helped prove with others that there was a market for a cheap, 7" tablet not named "iPad".

    The good news is that the market is still exploding for tablets. If they get Blackberry 10, if they are successful at getting apps on BlackBerry 10 and if they can find a way to make money at competitive pricing (lots of big ifs), there may be room for a third PlayBook.
    Barracuda7772 likes this.
    03-19-13 10:16 AM
  20. rkennedy01's Avatar
    What can the 2 year old playbook do that I can't do with an Android or IOS device old or current? I have 5 playbooks...and I owned an Android device. Please I would really like to know...
    I've spent the past year pushing the limits of Android performance on my Acer Iconia. I've rooted it, flashed various custom ROMs (CM10, AOKP), overclocked it by 50% and tweaked every conceivable sysctl setting.

    The net result? A very fast, very capable and yet very unstable platform. Sure, I can do lots of things with an Android tablet. But what I can't do is rely on it in a pinch. The truth is that I never know what's going to trip it up next. It might be Chrome. It might be TapaTalk. Or, in the case of today's crash, YouTube.

    The monolithic nature of Android means that, invariably, something is going to hang my tablet. This, in turn, makes it hard to trust the device with anything important (like multitasking between an unsaved document or spreadsheet and researching something on the web in a browser or app).

    By contrast, my Playbook is slower (yet the UI remains responsive), less capable (in terms of the breadth of apps), and lacks the depth of integration that Google's app stack embodies. But it also almost NEVER hangs or crashes. In fact, I can't remember the last time I rebooted my Playbook, yet I count myself lucky if I get through a day without rebooting Android.

    And lest someone accuse me of having self-inflicted wounds (by all of the tweaking and flashing), I'd like to point out that I also manage a dozen identical tablets running the stock factory ROM. They're just as unstable - it's basically a crap shoot every time you touch one of these devices.

    So, in summary: What can a 2 year old Playbook do that an Android Tab - even a newer one - can't? Give me peace of mind and confidence in my equipment.

    RCK
    03-19-13 11:06 AM
  21. wjptam's Avatar
    I don't know, if it was launched a year later with PBOS2, it would have gone up against the Nexus 7. At $270 it's proven to be very successful. Probably the only shining star of the Nexus family.

    As much as I like the PB ui, there is no comparison in terms of functionality and performance. The PB browser's performance reminds me of waiting to load gifs on my windows 98 laptop running Netscape.
    brianatbb likes this.
    03-19-13 11:22 AM
  22. bluenote's Avatar
    Any sense of whether installing os10 will require at least a 32GB versus a 16GB in terms of space?
    03-19-13 12:28 PM
  23. 514berry's Avatar
    I've spent the past year pushing the limits of Android performance on my Acer Iconia. I've rooted it, flashed various custom ROMs (CM10, AOKP), overclocked it by 50% and tweaked every conceivable sysctl setting.

    The net result? A very fast, very capable and yet very unstable platform. Sure, I can do lots of things with an Android tablet. But what I can't do is rely on it in a pinch. The truth is that I never know what's going to trip it up next. It might be Chrome. It might be TapaTalk. Or, in the case of today's crash, YouTube.

    The monolithic nature of Android means that, invariably, something is going to hang my tablet. This, in turn, makes it hard to trust the device with anything important (like multitasking between an unsaved document or spreadsheet and researching something on the web in a browser or app).

    By contrast, my Playbook is slower (yet the UI remains responsive), less capable (in terms of the breadth of apps), and lacks the depth of integration that Google's app stack embodies. But it also almost NEVER hangs or crashes. In fact, I can't remember the last time I rebooted my Playbook, yet I count myself lucky if I get through a day without rebooting Android.

    And lest someone accuse me of having self-inflicted wounds (by all of the tweaking and flashing), I'd like to point out that I also manage a dozen identical tablets running the stock factory ROM. They're just as unstable - it's basically a crap shoot every time you touch one of these devices.

    So, in summary: What can a 2 year old Playbook do that an Android Tab - even a newer one - can't? Give me peace of mind and confidence in my equipment.

    RCK
    I think the fact that you are inclined to push the boundaries of your Android and not your Playbook proves exactly what I'm saying. Android pushes people to do more and Blackberry has people settling for less. You said it yourself you've spent the last year pushing the boundaries but your playbook you leave it as is...Anyway...

    I don't think I've ever had to reboot my playbook either...My S3 had to be rebooted I'd say maybe once every week or 2 but when people are in a store testing a device reliability isn't something that comes in to question because you have the reputation of Google behind it. Google has the midas touch right now and What is the reputation of Blackberry? Restarts, old tech, not cool, no apps, etc. but all Blackberry needs to do is get the essential app developers on board and other developers will follow. Push them to push the boundaries of your platform.

    I will agree the Playbook is very stable but why? ....because it doesn't have much capability. The hardware/platform is built for it but there isn't much to throw on there to really see what it's capable of. So much potential in the Playbook is just sitting there unused!!!! I dont want anyone to get the idea I don't believe in the platform because I trully believe when I use my Playbook that I am using the best device on the market but I'm not using it to near its potential and thats not by choice at all.

    On Android you may sacrafice reliability to basically do anything you want..The options are limitless but people have come to expect this from computing. I mean how many times have you restarted your PC on a freeze? People are use to it and they accept it.

    On a side note I'm sure if you rooted the Playbook and over clocked it, etc it would have the same adverse effect on the performace as rooting your Android tablet does but even then if you compare app to app ie. YouTube there is just so much more functionality in the Android version. Everything has been toned down for the Playbook when in reality it could probably do a better job than the Android does. I am confident they will succeed but something more has to be done to push the boundaries of their platform.
    03-19-13 12:32 PM
  24. red stripe's Avatar
    Any sense of whether installing os10 will require at least a 32GB versus a 16GB in terms of space?
    Since you can only buy a 16 GB Z10 I doubt storage space will be a problem on the Playbook. RAM quantity and CPU performance will be the potential problem areas.
    03-19-13 12:35 PM
  25. anon1727506's Avatar
    RIM did build a tablet with good hardware specs... but the OS and ecosystem were both lacking at release.

    While the OS has been improved, there are still too many major apps missing from App World. Without sideloading not sure how useful it would be. But the hardware is dated, Memory and GPU are not good enough. Viewing large PDF files on the PlayBook really shows the limits of the current hardware.

    Add to the fact that most equipment that has a GUI do not fully work with the browser....
    03-19-13 01:01 PM
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