[blueberrymerry]

Well, nobody wanted a 7" tablet with no apps that cost more than an iPad. RIM must have been delusional to think they could get away with the initial pricing. It was a de facto beta test product at launch and it remained that way for almost two years... Maybe that's why they got rid of those two co-CEOs

Looking at what Apple did to attract users and developers to the iPad and its entire ecosystem, it's mind-boggling how RIM just went on numb autopilot with the Playbook. In the end, it only appealed to Blackberry users and diehard fans, when it could have been a potential iPad competitor. Now it goes up against the Nexus 7, iPad Mini, Kindle Fire, and a bunch of cheap tablets from Huawei and Lenovo, and they're all running OSes with lots more apps and services.

[mhmediaonline]

I get the impression that Blackberry (RIM then) saw a market opportunity and felt that they had to get something there to create a presence. As someone who's had a PlayBook for nearly 4 months now, I get the impression that the device was launched quickly with the idea that they'd patch it as it started selling and us purchasers are a large and distributed set of field-testers.

While I don't mind this in priniciple, I get really annoyed about the little niggling things that truly spoil a great device, and I'm not sure where the PlayBook's heading. I feel that I have all the apps I need now, and if I'm to buy any more the quality will need to significantly improve.

[joshua_sx1]

Well, if our PlayBook was ahead of its time... then we bought it in advance too... why? because it was marketed earlier... in the end, we will end up that our PlayBook is really a Beta device...

[Wongsky]

It is possible BB just misunderstood the market. They may have believed the PlayBook would be widely adopted by enterprise customers. When viewed from that perspective, it makes more sense:

The price was fine for enterprise sales. Companies that needed a secure, robust, highly-portable tablet would not bat an eye at the price. After all, there was nothing else in the market that had those features.

The "missing" PIM apps did not matter. Those capabilities came from Bridge. This was a kind of early Balance. When you did not attach to Bridge, like if the PB was stolen, there would be no enterprise data or services on the device. When it was near the company issued BlackBerry, the company systems were available.

The mistake was NOT the price or the lack of PIM apps. The mistake was not making clear to enterprises why the choices made in the design were sensible for enterprise customers. The failure of the marketing division was to let tech bloggers define the design as a failure instead of the clever idea it actually was.

So who bought the early PlayBooks? Hard-core BlackBerry users. A few companies that saw past the press to the qualities of the device. Those of us who realized we could have a great, portable Web browser without needing to pay our carrier for the HotSpot feature on our phone. And, when the prices dropped enough, those who saw the PB was a good size, good hardware, a reliable multitasking OS that could run Android apps.

Have to say, I agree with this - I can't help but think that the main intended demographic was the business user. FIPS certification / compliance and device level encryption? That sounds to me like they had the business and government sectors heavily in mind.

The general tablet buying public probably wouldn't care - but they were / are true USPs for the PlayBook.

Perhaps BlackBerry nee RIM felt they had to get something in the tablet space, new roughly what they were aiming for, and in addition, thought the dedicated and patient customers would see them through. In truth, I think the OSs was in the early days a little immature and lacking some core things, to suit everybody.

That apps were also a bit light for the consumer audience is also a fair point - but often conflated as if it's a flaw in the OS.

I had my eye on the PlayBook for quite a while, more so when the price (in the UK dropped to where it did). My main interests were the size / form-factor, good things I'd heard about the OS, and build quality. I bought one in September-ish, last year, as much out of curiosity as anything else, by that point I'd been an Android tablet owner / user for over a year.

Since then, I've been charmed with the little thing. I haven't seen the build quality and robustness beaten, and there are several different types of tablet in the household / family (Android, HP TouchPad, iPads). There's been the odd frustration, too - recent issues with google calendar, whilst may not be fundamentally of BlackBerry's doing, I suspect they do need to address things like that. And lack of true Kindle app support - realistically, that's a big ommission for a mainstream tablet, one that I'm hoping BB10 addresses.

In some ways, I kind of wish I'd got one earlier, really - I can't quite remember when the 64G PlayBook first dropped to �129 in the UK (anyone know?) but I was away in far flung places for a bit last year, all of which before I'd got my PlayBook, and I took my larger Android tablet. I think for several reasons, the PlayBook would have been much more suited to my travels - which is a shame, because I don't think I'll be travelling anything like as far and wide this year.

Truth be told, I've come to truly appreciate the PlayBook - sure it was probably rushed to market in an immature OS state - and has it flaws / issues / ommissions, which I don't seek to ignore, nor handwave about. All the same, there's just something about it, it's solidity, it's genuinely innovative and excellent OS. I guess, some of the flaws, in some ways, are to be appreciated, really - had the PlayBook not had them, it would have probably sold better, and the latecomers, such as myself, may have never bought a PlayBook had the prices not dropped so much as they did.

But to counter that, I suspect there's a fair amount of PlayBook owners now considering a BlackBerry handset, who didn't own one previously. In a month or two, I'll be almost certainly getting a BlackBerry handset at contract renewal time, probably a Z10. As for future tablets produced by BlackBerry? Well I wouldn't rush to one, personally, I want to get some life out of what I've got, but I'd certainly lean that way when I decide that I do need something different / newer to what I've currently got.

[FF22]

I get the impression that Blackberry (RIM then) saw a market opportunity and felt that they had to get something there to create a presence. As someone who's had a PlayBook for nearly 4 months now, I get the impression that the device was launched quickly with the idea that they'd patch it as it started selling and us purchasers are a large and distributed set of field-testers.

While I don't mind this in priniciple, I get really annoyed about the little niggling things that truly spoil a great device, and I'm not sure where the PlayBook's heading. I feel that I have all the apps I need now, and if I'm to buy any more the quality will need to significantly improve.

That is precisely the continuing problem. BBRY still has not provided any guidance on how the pb is intended to function in the bbry world. Yes, they've announced that it will get bb10 but what does that mean? They've severely curtailed the usefulness of Bridge by removing 3 or 4 main functions. Great, so now it's a standalone tablet that does not interface or really cooperate with new bb phones. They've only left the data-use portion of Bridge and frankly, the REMOTE aspect is not as appealing as the lost functions of shared email, calendar, memos. I could loan someone my pb and they would not have access to any of that personal data if I either walked away or temporarily disabled Bridge on the phone. What is their ROAD MAP? I still am not sure that they have one for the pb and where it fits.

Well, it's been two years, what's another year or two to figure it out and the guessing game keeps CB's pb forum alive with speculation.

[mandm1229]

Thorsten did say that the PlayBook was them getting ready for BB10. I love my playbook and when i show people the feature tied with my 9930 they say they want it lol. Or i wish my iPad and iPhone did that. The PlayBook was ahead of its time i do believe. It still is a great device and it handles everything i need with ease and does it beautifully.

I loved the price of the 16gb and i do not need any more space than that. I would love to see the PlayBook become big and start to control some of the market, but we will have to wait until a new PlayBook comes out or they update and push out a new wave of the original PlayBook.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 on Verizon Wireless.
BlackBerry By Choice!

[Barracuda7772]

hey everyone there is a lot of extremely valid points on both sides. and while its all fun amd games its just that, fun to speculate, because there is no real way we can know for sure.

so sure ar the time RIM could of very well rushed the playbook to market and sure they could of also simply misunderstood the market at the time or even tried to cultivate change in the market.

now wether or not if we were beta testers for the new qnx platform I believe is a moot point because as eaely adopters of the new platform we were defacto beta testers (intended or not)

now I do believe that the playbook was intially intended for the business market giventhe lack of pim apps and the neccessity of bridge to achieve full functionality. Does anyone remember the original videos from Rim years back
when they were showing off what the future of mobile computing would look like ? this was a video dedicated to showi g the buisness client how easy it would be to use your playbook and plug your playbook into a dock and use it as your computer. if I remember there was no marketing toward the adverage consumer rims future showed the business class.

either way we call all rejoice and justbe damn happy RIM now Blackberry purchassed a little company called QNX

[blueberrymerry]

That is precisely the continuing problem. BBRY still has not provided any guidance on how the pb is intended to function in the bbry world. Yes, they've announced that it will get bb10 but what does that mean?

The PB will get BB10 and then... be discontinued? Replaced with a larger model? Become a sad reminder of Blackberry's first and last foray into tablets? The new Blackberry still comes across as a company without a clear direction, trying to court both consumers and enterprise without really knowing what both want. Does Thorsten Heins really think consumers will switch to BB10 just because of how the OS looks?

In this age of social networking, not saying something is a missed opportunity for a company with its back to the wall like Blackberry. They could have said the Playbook is part of the new BB10 ecosystem with seamless sharing of apps and services, exactly what Apple, Google and Microsoft are doing with their hardware. Instead they keep silent and keep existing users and potential new users in the dark.

Blackberry is doomed to fail if it thinks it can survive on the enterprise market alone. Right now there are plenty of Blackberry phone users in the developing world like Indonesia, India and Africa where BBM is a cheaper alternative than email or SMS. People there will switch to low and midrange Androids from Samsung, ZTE and Huawei once data prices come down.

Playbook for enterprise was a suicidal idea from the start, especially as it assumed all those potential buyers were willing to stick with BB phones and BES. That was true a few years back but not now when major smartphone platforms can work well with enterprise software from anyone else.

I hope Blackberry learn from Nokia's painful fall from the top and realize some huge changes are necessary for the company to survive. Don't ever think consumers are stupid.

[mhmediaonline]

The PB will get BB10 and then... be discontinued? Replaced with a larger model? Become a sad reminder of Blackberry's first and last foray into tablets?

I hope it won't be the last foray. Although the format and size of that other fruit-named pad work for me, the Playbook is just so convenient and if I have to choose between the two based on ease of carrying, the PlayBook wins every time. In any case, isn't the "phablet" the latest trend in device formats, so surely Blackberry would bring out something that would be bigger than the Z10 but a bit smaller than the PlayBook? If they kept it responsive and with good battery life they make a (more) serious dent in the market.

[Barracuda7772]

The PB will get BB10 and then... be discontinued? Replaced with a larger model? Become a sad reminder of Blackberry's first and last foray into tablets? The new Blackberry still comes across as a company without a clear direction, trying to court both consumers and enterprise without really knowing what both want. Does Thorsten Heins really think consumers will switch to BB10 just because of how the OS looks?

I think your partially right. if and if blackberry release a 10 in playbook and upgrade the current playbooks to bb10 would it be such a bad idea that blackberry keep their 7 inch and introduced a 10 inch ? I mean as a 7 inch form factor tablet its still competative having better specs than the ipad mini, but that being said the bb10 is about the experience not the specs same as apple and ios that's why apple products always seem to have seemingly under speced hardware.

so would it be so bad if BB started with a 7 inch and introduce the 10 inch .....Instead of doimg what all the others did and start with a 10inch then move to a 7 incher ?

I'm not sure if it was intended but it would be genious if it was

[Mr.Willie]

I agree that the PB was a beta test, but what I can't wrap my head around is why it wasn't marketed as such. If rim had of introduced it as their future os with a @ cost price tag, they would have rocked apples boat and won over alot of newbies and developers. The launch timing was perfect for them to come out swinging to win people over. It bothers me to this day. Anyway I love my playbook, use it everyday and have abandoned my laptop years ago (except at tax time) because of it.

I say the whole PlayBook debacle could have been a game changing success by simple pricing.

If playbook launched at today's pricing - at cost, they would have sold a massive shed load of them 7' inch blacks! This in turn would have spurred rapid growth to its App catalog as developers would have quickly jump onto it.

History would be so different - all those kindle fires wouldn't have sold as those customers would have bought the playbook. Developers would have been working hard on the playbook propelling the virtuous cycle with more users. Ultimately, this would have drove further demand for the z10 & other BB10 devices.
Sigh, if only...

But the price is dirt cheap and the iPad continues to sell by the millions. Even after BB fixed the email, contacts, calander mishap.

Kindle Fires and iPads sell because of the ecosystem, and in the iPads case, it's also a great product.

It is possible BB just misunderstood the market. They may have believed the PlayBook would be widely adopted by enterprise customers. When viewed from that perspective, it makes more sense:

The price was fine for enterprise sales. Companies that needed a secure, robust, highly-portable tablet would not bat an eye at the price. After all, there was nothing else in the market that had those features.

The "missing" PIM apps did not matter. Those capabilities came from Bridge. This was a kind of early Balance. When you did not attach to Bridge, like if the PB was stolen, there would be no enterprise data or services on the device. When it was near the company issued BlackBerry, the company systems were available.

The mistake was NOT the price or the lack of PIM apps. The mistake was not making clear to enterprises why the choices made in the design were sensible for enterprise customers. The failure of the marketing division was to let tech bloggers define the design as a failure instead of the clever idea it actually was.

So who bought the early PlayBooks? Hard-core BlackBerry users. A few companies that saw past the press to the qualities of the device. Those of us who realized we could have a great, portable Web browser without needing to pay our carrier for the HotSpot feature on our phone. And, when the prices dropped enough, those who saw the PB was a good size, good hardware, a reliable multitasking OS that could run Android apps.

Unfortunately BB were dieing in the enterprise world. So if your users weren't using a BB handset, Playbook would have been useless in enterprise. (Also, here in the states, ATT doesn't want people doing it without paying extra). So it didn't sell. It's also kind of hard to be taken seriously in enterprise, when your product is missing enterprise applications.

Face it, the Playbook wasn't ahead of its time, it just sucked a$$.

[jrohland]

The PlayBook hardware may continue for a very long time as a vehicle based control center. As a consumer/enterprise tablet, I don't see a future for it. I'm doubtful it will ever get BB10. Yes I know BlackBerry has promised that. I also know companies change their mind when the reality of keeping a promise make no financial sense.

The PlayBook is a wonderful device. I have several and have never regretted owning them. I would buy a larger one (10") in a second as a fixed base operation console and keep the 7" as the portable unit. I had always wished the LTE model had been released to the USA market. I would have been happy to buy one.

[blueberrymerry]

Unfortunately BB were dieing in the enterprise world. So if your users weren't using a BB handset, Playbook would have been useless in enterprise. (Also, here in the states, ATT doesn't want people doing it without paying extra). So it didn't sell. It's also kind of hard to be taken seriously in enterprise, when your product is missing enterprise applications.

Face it, the Playbook wasn't ahead of its time, it just sucked a$$.

Another reason why I'm pessimistic about the Z10 improving Blackberry's eroding grip on the enterprise market. Get an Android, Apple or WP8 phone today and you can talk to most company servers without needing an intermediary like BES. That's one less piece of software to pay for and manage. So why would I get a Z10 and miss out on great apps, paid services and cloud services the other platforms offer?

As for the Playbook, the initial specs were decent but the device software, app and services ecosystem and marketing were downright disastrous. Snatching failure from potential victory, that. Maybe somebody needs to tell Thorsten Heins his company is burning through its pile of cash and needs to make itself relevant to consumers again.

[Bbnivende]

The part you quoted reads like we made mistakes with tablets, we learned from them, & we took what we learned & applied it to BB10. They are not saying we knew the software or product wasn't complete, but released it to an unsuspecting public so they could find the bugs & glitches. When something is in beta they tell you so. You & I can call it a beta out of frustration or excuse as to why it's bad, but a CEO would never in a million years admit something was a beta after the fact.

"Technically speaking" there was no beta version. There was a trial run. All water under the bridge. BB thought they were selling an Ipad beater but got beat down is all. I agree with Heins ... how can BB make a premium device that will sell at a profit and be useful in a way that the Ipad is not ? Their best bet here is to license BB10 to Lenovo/Asus. Guaranteed profits in such an arrangement.

[richardat]

I'm surprised how long it took the BlackBerry haters to find their way to this thread. But find it they did!

Ah....didn't take long for the juvenile name-calling to begin.

OP, saying it was "ahead of it's time" implies that the consumers weren't ready, that wasn't the case, it was the product that wasn't ready.

[DatMisterB]

I have a PlayBook and I like it a lot. I think one of the main reasons for the PlayBook to not be really successful was the decline of BB in the smartphone sector. They were losing marketshare with medias saying in 6 months they would run out of money. When a guy buys an iphone or android device afterwards, he's sure not going to buy a PlayBook. It seems like you have to do good in the smartphone world to push a tablet successfully.

However, if BB10 ends up getting really good market share in the upcoming year, a new BB10 tablet wouldn't be a bad idea IMO.

[red stripe]

I'm surprised how long it took the BlackBerry haters to find their way to this thread. But find it they did!

Your methodical dissection of opposing arguments leaves me in awe. Reminds me of Fischer at his prime:



"The Blackberry haters". Wow.

[omega supreme]

I like my playbook, the only drawback is that developers still don't find it viable. Almost everything that calls for mobile pairing of some sort is either ios, or android...and no i'm not talking about netflix or hulu particularly just other things in general... Regardless, i get good use out of it minus a few bugs like when it resets itself while i'm browsing but that's for another thread.

[knownastron]

I am in the camp that the PlayBook was a mistake for releasing as unfinished as it was.

It was absolutely rubbish, the pricing was way off also. Sure, you can say it was for 'beta' testing, but the cost was a damaged reputation and lost of trust from consumers.

[514berry]

Some of you guys really need to wake up...I'm not a hater and labeling someone a hater is really the easy way out of accepting the truth...The playbook was never ahead of its time for one simple reason...I can still do more with the first Ipad to ever drop then I can with my Playbook 2 years after its release...This is because of APPS that are available for it. Does the Playbook have the potential software/hardware wise to do the same? Of course but the developers aren't on board...The content that is available on IOS and Android is unbelieveable in comparison to our Blackberry products. WHere the playbook and Z10 deliver is on performance, reliability and the functions you actually need are 2nd to none. The user experience is amazing! I can't stress that enough they have really developed a great product but just because I'm convinced and obviously several of you are convinced doesn't mean developers are. Who cares what the potential is if after 2 years of the playbook being released I haven't really downloaded anymore apps then I had in the first few months...but it does what I need it to do.

So now let the kids say I'm a hater but I support the brand more than you do I'm sure. I bought in to blackberry at 22$ a share, I put in 5gran.I am confident they will succeed. I own 5 Playbooks, a Z10 and a 9900. I had a brief stint with an S3 but I got rid of it for the Z10 and I do not regret it at all just because the user experience is phenomenal on the Z10 and the HUB has changed the way I operate on a daily basis...This phone delivers where I need it most. What all you users need to start doing is stop waitingand calling people haters. Start putting pressure on developers, blackberry etc to really get the apps that we need to compete with IOS and Android.

Every TV in my household has a playbook hooked up to it with a HDMI cable which is why I have 5 of them. My 9900 has become like my univerval remote with the bridge and I use to stream content, etc. I love it because I am trying to get away from my cable bill that is astronomical in my opinion. The web browsing I think is 2nd to none on Blackberry right now. The capability is awesome which is why I choose that platform to try to replace my cable.

All I'm saying is we have a great product. It is well developed and has mass potential but someone is dropping the ball on getting developers on board. Someones sales pitch isn't strong enough. Users arent pushing hard enough to get changes to happen, to get developers to put out things for us. Consumers always get what they want but it doesn't come by sitting at home at your desk on a forum calling people haters.

[Barracuda7772]

Some of you guys really need to wake up...I'm not a hater and labeling someone a hater is really the easy way out of accepting the truth...The playbook was never ahead of its time for one simple reason...I can still do more with the first Ipad to ever drop then I can with my Playbook 2 years after its release...This is because of APPS that are available for it. Does the Playbook have the potential software/hardware wise to do the same? Of course but the developers aren't on board...The content that is available on IOS and Android is unbelieveable in comparison to our Blackberry products. WHere the playbook and Z10 deliver is on performance, reliability and the functions you actually need are 2nd to none. The user experience is amazing! I can't stress that enough they have really developed a great product but just because I'm convinced and obviously several of you are convinced doesn't mean developers are. Who cares what the potential is if after 2 years of the playbook being released I haven't really downloaded anymore apps then I had in the first few months...but it does what I need it to do.

So now let the kids say I'm a hater but I support the brand more than you do I'm sure. I bought in to blackberry at 22$ a share, I put in 5gran.I am confident they will succeed. I own 5 Playbooks, a Z10 and a 9900. I had a brief stint with an S3 but I got rid of it for the Z10 and I do not regret it at all just because the user experience is phenomenal on the Z10 and the HUB has changed the way I operate on a daily basis...This phone delivers where I need it most. What all you users need to start doing is stop waitingand calling people haters. Start putting pressure on developers, blackberry etc to really get the apps that we need to compete with IOS and Android.

Every TV in my household has a playbook hooked up to it with a HDMI cable which is why I have 5 of them. My 9900 has become like my univerval remote with the bridge and I use to stream content, etc. I love it because I am trying to get away from my cable bill that is astronomical in my opinion. The web browsing I think is 2nd to none on Blackberry right now. The capability is awesome which is why I choose that platform to try to replace my cable.

All I'm saying is we have a great product. It is well developed and has mass potential but someone is dropping the ball on getting developers on board. Someones sales pitch isn't strong enough. Users arent pushing hard enough to get changes to happen, to get developers to put out things for us. Consumers always get what they want but it doesn't come by sitting at home at your desk on a forum calling people haters.

thank you for your opinion as this is a forum and this is an opinion post. I'm certain you will see a very good return on your investment in Blackberry. I'm not saying your wrong in what you said you could very well be right its just everyone is entitled to their opinion.

you seem very knowledgeable and I look forward to coming across you in future tnreads

[taz323]

Some of you guys really need to wake up...I'm not a hater and labeling someone a hater is really the easy way out of accepting the truth...The playbook was never ahead of its time for one simple reason...I can still do more with the first Ipad to ever drop then I can with my Playbook 2 years after its release...This is because of APPS that are available for it. Does the Playbook have the potential software/hardware wise to do the same? Of course but the developers aren't on board...The content that is available on IOS and Android is unbelieveable in comparison to our Blackberry products. WHere the playbook and Z10 deliver is on performance, reliability and the functions you actually need are 2nd to none. The user experience is amazing! I can't stress that enough they have really developed a great product but just because I'm convinced and obviously several of you are convinced doesn't mean developers are. Who cares what the potential is if after 2 years of the playbook being released I haven't really downloaded anymore apps then I had in the first few months...but it does what I need it to do.

So now let the kids say I'm a hater but I support the brand more than you do I'm sure. I bought in to blackberry at 22$ a share, I put in 5gran.I am confident they will succeed. I own 5 Playbooks, a Z10 and a 9900. I had a brief stint with an S3 but I got rid of it for the Z10 and I do not regret it at all just because the user experience is phenomenal on the Z10 and the HUB has changed the way I operate on a daily basis...This phone delivers where I need it most. What all you users need to start doing is stop waitingand calling people haters. Start putting pressure on developers, blackberry etc to really get the apps that we need to compete with IOS and Android.

Every TV in my household has a playbook hooked up to it with a HDMI cable which is why I have 5 of them. My 9900 has become like my univerval remote with the bridge and I use to stream content, etc. I love it because I am trying to get away from my cable bill that is astronomical in my opinion. The web browsing I think is 2nd to none on Blackberry right now. The capability is awesome which is why I choose that platform to try to replace my cable.

All I'm saying is we have a great product. It is well developed and has mass potential but someone is dropping the ball on getting developers on board. Someones sales pitch isn't strong enough. Users arent pushing hard enough to get changes to happen, to get developers to put out things for us. Consumers always get what they want but it doesn't come by sitting at home at your desk on a forum calling people haters.

talk about hitting that nail with a hammer.

[Bbnivende]

Consumers said why would I buy a 7 inch Playbook when I can get a 10 inch Ipad for just a little more. The corporate/government sectors were busy giving their workers laptops that could run microsoft office and really did not need to give their EE's a BB, a laptop and a tablet. Then Apple ran their "I have an app for that" campaign and the rest is history.

[Bbnivende]

Dear Mr.514Berry,
Why should developers build apps for BB10 based on spec. They need to see the sales of units. As for the "big- got to have apps ", I think BB should be providing some initial seed money to help defray the programming costs.

[bluenote]

Thinking of getting a used Playbook but am not sure whether 16GB refurb or 32GB used. Any sense about whether the 16GB will get the OS10 update or will it (possibly) need to have 32GB or higher?