11-14-12 11:34 PM
253 ... 56789 ...
tools
  1. LimeTripBlog's Avatar
    RIM should focus its attention on blocking people from extracting these app from their playbook instead of blocking sideloading

    Sideloading is very useful to load apps rejected by app world. Not everything you need is available in the app world.

    This thread has definitely created an awareness about app piracy, but it also increased the traffic to the pirate sites
    04-26-12 06:13 AM
  2. torndownunit's Avatar
    Mind boggling... but ultimately amusing to see the lengths to which people will go to justify helping themselves to other people's stuff without paying for it and without permission. Last time I looked stealing was universally wrong.
    The thing is, if it's illegal, then let it be a legal matter and people can suffer the consequences. Bringing 'moral fibre' into this thread as a discussion point (which another user was doing) does not serve any purpose. The piracy is not going anywhere, so the moral side of it really is a moot point and pulling a moral high ground isn't serving any point either.

    There are 2 purposes to the 'moral fibre' argument. One, to make the person presenting it feel good about themselves, and two, to try to shame the people they are directing it at. If point one works for you, then great. But point two won't do anything to help with piracy issues.
    Last edited by torndownunit; 04-26-12 at 06:32 AM.
    04-26-12 06:25 AM
  3. brucep1's Avatar
    Millions and millions of iOS and Android users. Cydia and .apks all over the net. Yeah, I'm sure the PBs 1m+ users are stealing more apps than the millions and millions of users of iOS and Android...
    Let me ask you a question. What incentive is it for developers to develop an app for a user base of 1 million PlayBook users when there's a possibility of it being pirated by, say 10% of those users?
    04-26-12 06:56 AM
  4. brad1986's Avatar
    It's pretty pathetic when someone can't pay 2.99 for an app.
    Yes but if people can get away with downloading an app without any way of ever getting caught, why wouldn't they. You will never get caught downloading apps on the internet no matter what crap people tell you. It's just so easy to do so. Harsh words but when it comes to money, people would rather screw the developers over than spend their hard earned cash. They don't know these people, why should they care about them and give them money. 9 out of 10 people in this thread that have said it's wrong to pirate this app have probably already pirated it themselves.

    I do not agree with them but I can't blame them. I have got movies and what not in the past, same as everyone in here has. This is no different to that
    04-26-12 06:57 AM
  5. cleacy's Avatar
    Let me ask you a question. What incentive is it for developers to develop an app for a user base of 1 million PlayBook users when there's a possibility of it being pirated by, say 10% of those users?
    An identical incentive to a user base of 900,000 playbooks with a 0% piracy rate, or 1.11m playbooks with a 10% rate.

    So... That gives two ways to incent developers to provide applications: Decrease piracy, or increase userbase. Keep in mind, we're also assuming that a copy pirated is a lost sale.

    There was a series of essays on a similar topic involving ebooks by Eric Flint at webscriptions.

    Prime Palaver by Eric Flint - Baen Books
    04-26-12 08:06 AM
  6. Zero-K's Avatar
    Piracy will never stop. Some do it because they don't feel they should have to pay for anything, others because they like the challenge.

    No matter what RIM tries to do, there will be people out there trying alternative methods to get the software. Piracy has been around since the start of computers/devices and it certainly isn't going to change any time soon.

    It's funny to see that apps written for Apple and BB are generally based on a pay $x.xx and you get the full version app so it seems that people make more of a big deal out of piracy when it comes to those apps. But on Android, dev's tend to lean more towards releasing a free ad based version as well as a full paid version. This generally eliminates the piracy from the ones who are just too cheap to pay for anything. Most don't mind seeing an ad to get a game for free. Of course there are still always the others who want the full version ad free and will do a lot to get it...except pay for it.

    I think if more dev's put out lite/ad/whatever based versions for free, they would see a slight decrease in piracy of their apps, but they would see some slight revenue from ads, as well as an increase in popularity since people can either try before they buy or put up with an ad based version.

    But what do I know, I only dev for Android, not for BB
    04-26-12 08:43 AM
  7. jivegirl14's Avatar
    The thing is, if it's illegal, then let it be a legal matter and people can suffer the consequences. Bringing 'moral fibre' into this thread as a discussion point (which another user was doing) does not serve any purpose. The piracy is not going anywhere, so the moral side of it really is a moot point and pulling a moral high ground isn't serving any point either.

    There are 2 purposes to the 'moral fibre' argument. One, to make the person presenting it feel good about themselves, and two, to try to shame the people they are directing it at. If point one works for you, then great. But point two won't do anything to help with piracy issues.
    I have no interest in going down the moral fibre/immoral rabbit hole. I've no idea what you're on about there.

    Stealing is stealing is pirating is stealing...anyone can dress it up to the nth degree, debate the various flavours of "fibre" if you wish, it is what it is and individuals make choices of whether to ignore it or not for their own ends. Whatever makes you happy.

    It's already been said that piracy has been around for ages and will probably be around for a lot longer, yes it probably will and so what? (frankly it's becoming a very tired argument). It's just amusing that people continually trot it out as an excuse for their own actions and then start pointless circular arguments about how nice "moral fibre" makes people feel.

    It's really, really simple. If something's for sale and you want it then buy it. If you cannot afford it, don't. If you haven't paid for it, unless it's offered free or with permission it isn't yours and you have no right to it therefore you are pirating or stealing (whatever name one prefers to use).
    Simples.
    Hgouck and mkelley65 like this.
    04-26-12 09:52 AM
  8. BBplaybookJS's Avatar
    Well, I'm all for RIM blocking the ability to pirate BlackBerry apps. Stealing is wrong.

    But, if they block my ability to sideload FREE android apps I will be very upset.

    Ultimately, the arguments about the pros and cons of pirating intellectual property are generally circular and unproductive. It generally goes; corperations fleece their customers for as much as they can. Consumers look for ways to avoid being fleeced wherever possible. Both sides are bad, and there is no moral high ground. But, stealing is wrong in all of its forms.
    If blocking sideloading of android apps is what is needed to stop this they should go ahead and do it.
    04-26-12 10:02 AM
  9. brad1986's Avatar
    If it can be pirated, it will be pirated. It won't be stopped. Certainly not for a very long time anyway. I don't see the point in discussing anything to do with piracy in threads to be honest. No amount of arguing between people in these discussions will change pirating. Just go your own route and ignore the others that take the other way. Talking about this sh*t fellas won't get anyone anywhere.
    Last edited by brad1986; 04-26-12 at 10:08 AM.
    04-26-12 10:05 AM
  10. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Did you consider the fact that broadcasting this on the forums probably encourages people to go look for it? You might have contributed to the problem.
    Why? because I'm Capt jack Sparrow! Savvy?
    04-26-12 10:33 AM
  11. torndownunit's Avatar
    I have no interest in going down the moral fibre/immoral rabbit hole. I've no idea what you're on about there.

    Stealing is stealing is pirating is stealing...anyone can dress it up to the nth degree, debate the various flavours of "fibre" if you wish, it is what it is and individuals make choices of whether to ignore it or not for their own ends. Whatever makes you happy.

    It's already been said that piracy has been around for ages and will probably be around for a lot longer, yes it probably will and so what? (frankly it's becoming a very tired argument). It's just amusing that people continually trot it out as an excuse for their own actions and then start pointless circular arguments about how nice "moral fibre" makes people feel.

    It's really, really simple. If something's for sale and you want it then buy it. If you cannot afford it, don't. If you haven't paid for it, unless it's offered free or with permission it isn't yours and you have no right to it therefore you are pirating or stealing (whatever name one prefers to use).
    Simples.
    I did not 'trot out' the moral fibre argument. All these people preaching to others about what they are doing being wrong did. These are the people making the silly arguments because the 'moral fibre' issue does not matter in the slightest in the end. And other than legal consequences, someone's opinion of what is 'wrong' really doesn't matter in the end either. If someone is indeed doing something wrong, they can deal with whatever the consequences are. People don't constantly need to have morals explained to them in this thread, and that was what I responding to. Explaining morals to someone who already pirates is pretty useless. Yet every page of the thread someone feels the need to.

    Your post appeared to be in response to the original 'moral fibre' post which is why I was responding to it.
    Last edited by torndownunit; 04-26-12 at 10:59 AM.
    Princepia likes this.
    04-26-12 10:50 AM
  12. jakeslu's Avatar
    I learned from my experience: I bought a $50 software for Windows from Best Buy and the software was a complete crap. I went to return it but I could only change for the same title. So I refuse to buy software for any platform until I will be guarantied to get my money back if the program or game is crap (I am talking about any platform). For music I first download entire album, listen to it and if I like it I buy it, if I do not like it I delete it.

    P.S. the quote from Dave about music share
    04-26-12 11:11 AM
  13. samab's Avatar
    Yes Yes but the dolphin folks did not become aware of the level of piracy that was going on with their app on the playbook until it ended up in the appstore and sure 2100 plus downloads is a lot of money but id be willing to bet more than half of them wouldnt have paid for it any way and there are what 2 million playbooks sold?
    For the N+1th time, it is not piracy when Handster/Opera has the full legal right to re-distribute the Dolphin browser in the Blackberry AppWorld. Handster has a revenue sharing agreement with Dolphin --- so whatever revenue Handster got from distributing the Dolphin broswer for the Playbook, the developer for the Dolphin browser gets a cut in the revenue.
    04-26-12 11:21 AM
  14. stackberry369's Avatar
    Too bad we can't pirate gasoline lol.
    04-26-12 11:28 AM
  15. DAnklaud's Avatar
    gasoline does get pirated, its called gas'n go
    mkelley65 likes this.
    04-26-12 11:35 AM
  16. reeneebob's Avatar
    Millions and millions of iOS and Android users. Cydia and .apks all over the net. Yeah, I'm sure the PBs 1m+ users are stealing more apps than the millions and millions of users of iOS and Android...

    You are presuming that everyone one iPhone jailbreaks and steals apps, or that everyone on Android steals apks.

    There are a lot of people who don't because its wrong. When I was jailbroken all I downloaded from cydia were free apps or apps I opaid for in the cydia store. On android I also paid for my apps, even when I was running custom roms. There are also a lot of current iPhone users who aren't jailbroken either by choice (me currently) or because of the A5 chip.

    I don't think there are millions of theives out there.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    04-26-12 11:48 AM
  17. reeneebob's Avatar
    Yes but if people can get away with downloading an app without any way of ever getting caught, why wouldn't they. You will never get caught downloading apps on the internet no matter what crap people tell you. It's just so easy to do so. Harsh words but when it comes to money, people would rather screw the developers over than spend their hard earned cash. They don't know these people, why should they care about them and give them money. 9 out of 10 people in this thread that have said it's wrong to pirate this app have probably already pirated it themselves.



    I do not agree with them but I can't blame them. I have got movies and what not in the past, same as everyone in here has. This is no different to that

    Again, I haven't stolen apps. I have never, ever stolen movies. Don't speak for me to make yourself feel better.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    jivegirl14 likes this.
    04-26-12 11:52 AM
  18. BerryClever's Avatar
    There are justifications on both sides of pirating (how strong they are are really based on opinions). For some stealing is stealing and it is wrong, for others they want an app/game but do not believe it is worth the asking price. Those are just 2 examples of justification, and for many one might seem exceptionally weak, but there will be someone who believes it so much that they will argue tooth and nail.

    Piracy has been around for a long time and tends to not have a monstrous effect (keyword: TENDS). That is because the user base of pirated software/apps are pretty diverse in nature. There are those who would never have bought the app to begin with, generally kids because they do not have either the disposable income or the means to buy it (like a credit card). Then there are those who will pirate an app/software and like it enough to buy it legally (pirated software is a pain in the @ss to maintain, for example one couldn't just upgrade it automatically when bug release comes out, and it can be a waiting game on when someone rips that piece of software, especially depending on the popularity).

    I don't believe that a large percentage of users would download pirated apps for a few reasons. 1: is that it can be a pain to maintain, 2: is that you have to go to sketchy sites and many have viruses either in the software (PC/Mac) or one the site, 3: people have have go searching for it and weed through tons of crap/pop ups and people tend to be lazy and favor convenience when possible, 4: it is illegal and most people abide by laws and paranoid of their IP address (getting caught), and 5:, you have to be somewhat tech savy.

    So you have younger kids that will download for free that have no intent on buying it (maybe they help with marketing though... which is a argument some (even in the tech world) provide). Then you have older people, mostly college age, that may not buy it then, but they generally will eventually buy the legal copy and support the company if they find the app/software useful.

    I am NOT saying that pirating is good, in fact I whole heartedly disagree with pirating, but there is no real way to fully stop it. Because of that one has to understand it and not work within it (for example Free to Play that some companies are now promoting). It is also important to know that there is ZERO way of determining lost revenue. There is such a variety of people using pirated apps that there is no way to determine if they would have bought it to begin with.

    Again, NOT condoning it, but mainly saying that it is a complex matter and is so muddy that to argue it tends to be arguing the ideal world situation. I think the best thing to do is just individually support the company/developer. There tends to be more of us than them
    Last edited by BerryClever; 04-26-12 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Edited to apologize: Sorry for writing a book!
    04-26-12 11:53 AM
  19. reeneebob's Avatar
    There are justifications on both sides of pirating (how strong they are are really based on opinions). For some stealing is stealing and it is wrong, for others they want an app/game but do not believe it is worth the asking price. Those are just 2 examples of justification, and for many one might seem exceptionally weak, but there will be someone who believes it so much that they will argue tooth and nail.

    Piracy has been around for a long time and tends to not have a monstrous effect (keyword: TENDS). That is because the user base of pirated software/apps are pretty diverse in nature. There are those who would never have bought the app to begin with, generally kids because they do not have either the disposable income or the means to buy it (like a credit card). Then there are those who will pirate an app/software and like it enough to buy it legally (pirated software is a pain in the @ss to maintain, for example one couldn't just upgrade it automatically when bug release comes out, and it can be a waiting game on when someone rips that piece of software, especially depending on the popularity).

    I don't believe that a large percentage of users would download pirated apps for a few reasons. 1: is that it can be a pain to maintain, 2: is that you have to go to sketchy sites and many have viruses either in the software (PC/Mac) or one the site, 3: people have have go searching for it and weed through tons of crap/pop ups and people tend to be lazy and favor convenience when possible, 4: it is illegal and most people abide by laws and paranoid of their IP address (getting caught), and 5:, you have to be somewhat tech savy.

    So you have younger kids that will download for free that have no intent on buying it (maybe they help with marketing though... which is a argument some (even in the tech world) provide). Then you have older people, mostly college age, that may not buy it then, but they generally will eventually buy the legal copy and support the company if they find the app/software useful.

    I am NOT saying that pirating is good, in fact I whole heartedly disagree with pirating, but there is no real way to fully stop it. Because of that one has to understand it and not work within it (for example Free to Play that some companies are now promoting). It is also important to know that there is ZERO way of determining lost revenue. There is such a variety of people using pirated apps that there is no way to determine if they would have bought it to begin with.

    Again, NOT condoning it, but mainly saying that it is a complex matter and is so muddy that to argue it tends to be arguing the ideal world situation. I think the best thing to do is just individually support the company/developer. There tends to be more of us than them

    One of my favorite days at work was when Johnny Pirate the movie thief called in because he had been walled gardened. I called over to tech support who told me it was due to dozens of stolen movies he had downloaded. I brought the customer on with us and he was all offended that we would say he was a thief - until tech support said "sir, the FBI said you are a thief and don't deny it. I can see exactly what movies you pirated and tell you the name of the folder you saved them in if you have trouble remembering". Suddenly the little @ss wasn't so tough and offended anymore.

    .



    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    jivegirl14 and Revord like this.
    04-26-12 12:00 PM
  20. balding1's Avatar
    You are presuming that everyone one iPhone jailbreaks and steals apps, or that everyone on Android steals apks.

    There are a lot of people who don't because its wrong. When I was jailbroken all I downloaded from cydia were free apps or apps I opaid for in the cydia store. On android I also paid for my apps, even when I was running custom roms. There are also a lot of current iPhone users who aren't jailbroken either by choice (me currently) or because of the A5 chip.

    I don't think there are millions of theives out there.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Then you are the exception on that one.
    In your case why did you jailbreak your Iphone to start off with? For free apps?
    You should of not jailbroken and went through the app store for all your needs but I guess in your case jailbroken got what you needed or wanted.
    Last edited by balding1; 04-26-12 at 12:10 PM.
    04-26-12 12:07 PM
  21. DAnklaud's Avatar
    considering theft and piracy have been debated for thousands of years, this thread was stale before it started, Nothing new has been said here, this thread proves nothing but the fact Humans are nosy, opinionated, self biased, argumentative hypocrites who break laws on a daily basis while telling each-other there $h1t don't stink, just every-one else's.
    At first i thought this thread was funny, the same way i laugh at children's stupidity, then i realized this is a child's thread (You know this argument will never end , so why join and just waste your own time arguing a moot point unless you have nothing better to do- like be a productive member of society)

    just my 2 cent's, not like argument lovers would listen
    04-26-12 12:11 PM
  22. reeneebob's Avatar
    Then you are the exception on that one.
    In your case why did you jailbreak your Iphone to start off with? For free apps?
    You should of not jailbroken and went through the app store for all your needs but I guess in your case jailbroken got what you needed or wanted.

    Stop making blanket statements about people. A good and sizeable chunk of people who jailbreak don't do it to be thieves. They do it to customize the interface.

    I jailbroke so I could purchase IntelliscreenX and customize my appearance. All told I've spent around $50-$75 in cydia tweaks. All of them are appearance based. None of them are stolen. As far as apps that are actually apps? I actually buy them all from the app store using my money I work for so the developers who also work hard on their apps can be paid for THEIR work.

    Just because you think most people jailbreak to be thieves doesn't make it true. Most do it to theme their phone or add tweaks to enhance the experience.



    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    04-26-12 12:18 PM
  23. DAnklaud's Avatar
    Stop making blanket statements about people. A good and sizeable chunk of people who jailbreak don't do it to be thieves. They do it to customize the interface.

    Just because you think most people jailbreak to be thieves doesn't make it true. Most do it to theme their phone or add tweaks to enhance the experience.
    I jail broke my iPod for one reason, to enhance security, the pdf exploit to jailbreak my pod could have been used against me numerous times on the web, so i jailbroke then installed the pdf-patch from cydia, ya a jailbroken apple product IS more secure, then i added mem management
    04-26-12 12:24 PM
  24. brad1986's Avatar
    Again, I haven't stolen apps. I have never, ever stolen movies. Don't speak for me to make yourself feel better.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    This wasn't aimed at you dude lol. It was just in general
    04-26-12 12:34 PM
  25. Yemson's Avatar
    Jailbrake goes against the legal use of Apple hardware. So even though someone jailbroke their iPhone to save a life, you are still braking the law. Or should I say Jailbreaking the law.
    04-26-12 12:35 PM
253 ... 56789 ...
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD