[digtech]

I understand the intention of the OP but seriously didn't he think plastering this on a public forum would kinda make the problem worse? There are countless people out there who had no idea or thought for piracy myself included and now all that has gone down the drain. RIMs mark for security is much stronger than their lack of, so I never even imagined that since Dingle berry that there are other ways of exploiting the tablet.

To be honest ive bought my fare share of apps, some are cheap and others I close my eyes and hit purchase... Now that I know there is an alternative I am thinking about it. The only thing that is stopping me right now is because it's a tedious process IMO, to show u ive only ever tried sideloading once and the host of .Bar files i downloaded only a quart of them worked and now they are deleted... I dont care much for the android ported apps.

At the moment im so pissed at jepsson for yesterday's fiasco... That as soon as im done boycotting my pb I am going to scout the Internet for angry birds space on warez or whatever and then I'm going to charge my playbook, get a good night's rest and play to "my hearts content" *rolls eye*.

[FF22]

Lol.. I'm going to stray a little off topic, because I don't agree with the OP's use of eztv.it as an example. In Canada, the downloading of TV shows is not illegal, uploading is a different story.

While you may or may not agree with it -- You can't stop piracy, this has been proven time and time again even the most drastic attempts to ensure piracy never occurs have all failed in one way or another. At the end of the day, it's all just "code" that can be torn apart and reversed just as it was put together.

In most cases, the attempted prevention of piracy hinders paying customers more so then those partaking in piracy. Paying customers are forced to deal with the DRM, pirates just simply.. strip it out.

I won't even begin to mention the latest statistics that show those who pirate things, more often then not -- actually end up buying the product.

I have to agree. I just upgraded the OS on my 9930/Bold. Darn but each day another app stops working, asking me to either purchase or register and then I have to find the 12 digit alphanumeric and type it in. It is not terrible but it is a pain and hassle. More often than not I have to dig to find the code. I paid, stopping hassling me. I'm sure that there are some more apps I have not fired up that will do the same to me over the next week.

I don't know about folks actually buying it after pirating (trial/test), but as has been mentioned earlier in the thread, many probably would not have purchased it in any event so there is no real lost sale.

[Michel Souris]

Any consideration at all to the fact that the Angry Birds games are available via Google Play for free?

[jivegirl14]

I hope that OP considers asking mods to close this thread. All points of view have been expressed and nothing positive will come through extended discussion. In my opinion, RIM and small developers are in a no-win situation when they discuss this problem in public.

RIM has a problem because they would like to avoid PlaBbook becoming a playground for those who feel entitled to re-publish our work ion the net. From the small developer's perspective, we are caught between a rock and a hard place. If we support RIM's efforts (in public) to stop piracy, we risk being branded as crybabies. If we defend our own IP rights, we are accused of overreacting.

There is no doubt that some large players are a little disappointed in RIM's ability to protect their intellectual property from pirates. I hope that RIM has managed to placate them with their latest update.

Certainly RIM has solved my major concern, that is, seeing my app published without my permission in random "stores". I am finding my last release plastered all over the net and I am not happy about it. So I am saddened by some posters who think that I am being silly to complain about piracy. I wish that they could put themselves in my shoes and realize that I have human feelings too.

You are not being silly. I think you have every right to protect your intellectual property and every right to complain. People will offer all kinds of frankly ridiculous excuses all in an attempt to justify pirating (aka stealing), just because they can and because they have never put themselves in your shoes and have a sense of being entitled to have it anyway.

Perhaps piracy won't lessen anytime soon because it's hard to crack down on. Yes, it has been going on for aons.

But that doesn't mean one has to add to the problem - and those who are not part of the solution are very much of the problem. Deciding to steal help yourself to someone's work that's for sale because you don't want to pay for it is wrong. Two wrongs still don't make a right.

If I want an app I purchase it - I would actually prefer developers to stay in business developing apps. Most apps are cheap and if I find something is too expensive I just wait or don't purchase. If people can't cough up the money for an app then they need to get rid of their devices.
RIM - and any platform - should crack down on piracy where they can. And as for small developers - so what if you're branded as crybabies if you support what is right?

[gregorylkelly]

I pirate some apps. I pirated What's Up. However, after I realize it works properly I went and bought it. I have it as a bought app in my App World.

The reason I pirate apps is because I am sick and tired of paying for Apps that don't work as advertised or at all. I bought NewsPile and it doesn't work at all for me. That was money down the drain. I pirated Blaq because I wanted to see how it compared to BlackBird which I paid for. I found Blaq to be better and I went ahead and bought it. Until there is some sort of return option, I will continue to do this as long as I can. It's my way of protecting myself from scams. Developers can put a crappy app into App World and delete all the bad review and leave about 10-15 fake reviews touting how awesome the app is. It's a flawed system that has burnt me out of my hard earned money too many times.

I am an honest person that has to resort to illegal options because there are no better options available to me. I am sorry to all the devs that I have "ripped off". The good apps like Blaq and What's Up have proven that they deserve my money and have received it.

Also, a tip to developers. Release updates for your apps to annoy the piraters out there. It's much easier to update through App World than through a bootleg site

[yllus]

I understand the intention of the OP but seriously didn't he think plastering this on a public forum would kinda make the problem worse? There are countless people out there who had no idea or thought for piracy myself included and now all that has gone down the drain. RIMs mark for security is much stronger than their lack of, so I never even imagined that since Dingle berry that there are other ways of exploiting the tablet.

To be honest ive bought my fare share of apps, some are cheap and others I close my eyes and hit purchase... Now that I know there is an alternative I am thinking about it. The only thing that is stopping me right now is because it's a tedious process IMO, to show u ive only ever tried sideloading once and the host of .Bar files i downloaded only a quart of them worked and now they are deleted... I dont care much for the android ported apps.

At the moment im so pissed at jepsson for yesterday's fiasco... That as soon as im done boycotting my pb I am going to scout the Internet for angry birds space on warez or whatever and then I'm going to charge my playbook, get a good night's rest and play to "my hearts content" *rolls eye*.

Security through obscurity is not security at all. The vast majority of motivated people will find the pirate site on their own. Better to talk about this issue than not; for instance, reading this thread has educated me that I can release an upcoming app targeted to OS v2.0.1 and hopefully avoid piracy.

[dave1701]

I pirate some apps. I pirated What's Up. However, after I realize it works properly I went and bought it. I have it as a bought app in my App World.

The reason I pirate apps is because I am sick and tired of paying for Apps that don't work as advertised or at all. I bought NewsPile and it doesn't work at all for me. That was money down the drain. I pirated Blaq because I wanted to see how it compared to BlackBird which I paid for. I found Blaq to be better and I went ahead and bought it. Until there is some sort of return option, I will continue to do this as long as I can. It's my way of protecting myself from scams. Developers can put a crappy app into App World and delete all the bad review and leave about 10-15 fake reviews touting how awesome the app is. It's a flawed system that has burnt me out of my hard earned money too many times.

I am an honest person that has to resort to illegal options because there are no better options available to me. I am sorry to all the devs that I have "ripped off". The good apps like Blaq and What's Up have proven that they deserve my money and have received it.

Also, a tip to developers. Release updates for your apps to annoy the piraters out there. It's much easier to update through App World than through a bootleg site

I'm pretty sure that you can try what's up for free through the app world.

[jechow]

Has anyone thought that Apple would not be were it is today without piracy. I total believe that the iPod would not have been such a huge success without music piracy. Thus, companies, such as RIM, Apple and Intel, benefit from piracy as it elevates hardware sales and growth of the platform which is a disincentive to eliminate piracy.

My comments above I believe are factual and not statements advocating stealing software or anything from a business or your neighbour.

[GinaWrite]

Hi,

A decent percentage of pirate sites will remove an app -after- the developer complains. It's an opt-out kind of thing. There should be a clearing house that a developer could access, find out which websites are sharing their app, and send them a polite email to remove it. If there is under a dozen of them for PlayBook apps, it's not such a pain (yet). Chasing ROM sites down in the 16-bit days was a never ending battle.

Gina

[mikeplus1]

Non-piracy is the worst form of flattery.

[Mel25]

Same people in here complaining flood the movie thread trying to dl free movies.

[digtech]

Security through obscurity is not security at all. The vast majority of motivated people will find the pirate site on their own. Better to talk about this issue than not; for instance, reading this thread has educated me that I can release an upcoming app targeted to OS v2.0.1 and hopefully avoid piracy.

It is by no means obscure, atleast not at all to RIM ... to the general consumer market Yes. So the one percent of motivated people doesn't at all diminish RIMs standard where security is concerned. RIM obviously was in the know about this, hence why they addressed it with the 2.0.1 release. The onus is on developers to ensure that their apps are fully compliant and should always try to be a step ahead of pirates especially when resources are provided. If I want to protect my property, I shouldn't have to resort to public forum know how's.

[torndownunit]

Statistics support RIM's claim that more paid apps are download from App World than are downloaded from the Android market. There is a theory that Google is not working as hard as RIM to protect developers from piracy because lax distribution actually enhances advertising revenues. The theory suggests that developers are forced to capitulate to cultural pressures and reluctantly accept an ad-based model for getting paid for their work.

Now I don't know fore sure that the Google conspiracy actually exists, but I do know that transplanted Android users tend to express the opinion that RIM should be more like Google in their wish to control piracy.

I think that this situation is what the OP was referring to. Large vendors have been putting pressure on RIM to secure the platform better. In response, RIM has take steps to close the major exploit (the one that affects me) but is not addressing the ability to load random Android apps on the device.

From my perspective, I can live with the fact that people can still load past versions of my app on the device. My income stream is not affected to a great extent by piracy (even if my nose does get out of joint occasionally when this matter is discussed). However, the larger vendors may still be unhappy that RIM did not accede to their demands to outlaw casual sideloading. So, in a way the OP's topic is valid as a point of discussion, although I would rather not be talking about it. As I said in a previous post, it is probably better to let sleeping dogs lie. It becomes quite uncomfortable when my nose gets out of joint.

From another perspective though, I wouldn't know anything about any of this without some of the posts like yours in this thread. Maybe it was discussed in past threads, but I personally haven't seen any this in depth since I have been a member. So I find this thread pretty interesting.

See from the perspective of a general user and forum member, I see posts mention that developers aren't developing apps for Playbook because of security reasons. But someone like myself knows none of the actual reasoning behind that. I send emails to developers asking if they have plans to make a Playbook version all the time, and they basically answer back with a straight 'no'. I am never told anything about security reasons or anything else. On the surface it just comes across like they have no interest.

[reeneebob]

Same people in here complaining flood the movie thread trying to dl free movies.

Please don't presume to speak for what I do. I have never and will never steal a movie either.

Thousands of people - not actors but the tradespeople who make movie sets, props and work on the production are hurt. I own over 4000 movies on DVD, VHS or Blueray, plus subscribe to TMN and HBO Canada.

I also quit Columbia House the day I learnt that the artists make nothing from their CD or movie sales.




Sent from mah braiiiiinzzzz using
Tapatalk

[Vorkosigan]

I think it's good to point it out. Some users don't even have a clue what they are doing.

My bil was downloading apps from one of those sites and he recommended it to me. I told him I wasn't comfortable side loading apps and preferred to purchase what was available through appworld. His response? I don't sideload - i just download the file to my computer and convert it to the pb. Ummmm. That would be sideloading. He was actually surprised. And he is a very intelligent person, just never really thought about it.

[kennyliu]

Yes information should be free. The development of drugs for cancers for example are slowed down because research is hidden away by copyright for years and possibly forever because companies don't want to share information and colab. They want sole ownership of any discoveries.

People in poor countries can't get information and better themselves because they can't afford the price of information, not to mention govt' censorship and blockades forced upon them by American copyrights.

I'm a gamer and have to pay 60$ for each game. Not only is that insanely expensive, but they block features already on the disk and gouge for more money by claiming they're DLCs.

This kinda greedy price gouging reminds me of that scene in jurassic park where the lawyer is gleefully saying they could charge 1mil a day, while the creator says "Everyone in the world has the right to see these animals."

But all this is ignored because "LOL stealing is wrong!" They make money off that big brother attitude and always will.

And to be blunt, I sideload games and apps because it's free and easy. I wouldn't have paid anyway if they block that feature. I won't sideload Angry Birds because the game is lame and so was the hype. Ooh wow a stupid casual game. Let me know when something a little more important like Skype shows up.

OK, let's go one by one:

1. Copyright doesn't preclude sharing information (e.g. drug facts and formula are known), it precludes the use of it.

2. If information/inventions/know-how were not protected and there were no "excess" profit gained from such protection, how would you expect those inventions to be developed in the first place? Remove the incentive to invent/create/develop, and there won't be any development/invention. R&D is probably the most justifiable excuse for monopolies.

3. People in poor countries will eventually benefit as patents are not permanent. Besides, many companies price discriminate and assess much lower prices for the patented goods and services in developing countries.

4. Price gouging is an ephemeral concept. You pay the price because you decided that the good is worth it. Especially, with goods that are not necessities. Besides, if there was no piracy, prices on video games would probably be lower as the developer wouldn't have to recapture some of the lost profits by charging a high price. Also, note that, however counterintuitive this may sound, high prices lead to low prices



NB: These arguments are positive, not normative. I am leaving the morality of one's actions aside. We all sometimes behave in an "immoral" way (deemed "immoral" by others). Those who claim this is illegal and shouldn't be done, probably has done something illegal in their lives too (e.g. not reporting or underreporting state use taxes, which, probably 99.9% of all of us do. It is generally impossible to perfectly abide by hundreds of thousands of pages of written laws federal, state, and local laws). There is a reason why laws have to be properly enforced. Otherwise, with people being rational, poorly enforced laws won't work. Moreover, they will hurt those who abide by them.

[papped]

I feel like I'm watching mainstream news... Reporting something that happens with everything on a massive scale for many years now as if it's just become a problem recently...

[canuckvoip]

It's pretty pathetic when someone can't pay 2.99 for an app.

+1000
As others have said, pirating native costed apps is just sick. And if RIM snuffs sideloading free apps that have the consent of the devs it will be a very sad day.
How the eff are we to use Evernote then?
Hello...

[The White Wolf]

First let me say im not for or against piracy. What I can say is it's been around a long time and isn't going anywhere. Even if RIM tries to stop it someone will still find a way around it. Now im not saying RIM shouldn't take action against it, just saying there is no need to constantly post new threads to complain about piracy. It will get you no where. Everything is pirated from OS's to photoshop programs to game ISO's. So please, we all know people pirate. RIM knows,Apple knows, Android knows. So there is no need for a bunch of no name people to always bring it up. Just sayin.

Now, I saw jailbreaking mentioned. I do believe in this. Or ROOTING. Not for piracy, but for me to feel like I actually OWN my device and am not leasing/renting it from the company. Anyone who is happy with not being able to ROOT the device is someone who doesn't mind RENTING their device from whomever they bought it from. Sorry, its the truth. Example, I bought a HTC HD2. It came preloaded with ringtones, wallpapers, and apps like twitter and a bunch or other crap that I don't want or need and is taking up space. This is true to Almost every device be it a phone or tablet. This is crap I DON'T want or NEED! Can I delete it ? NO! Because I was RENTING the phone. SO , I jailbreak then ROOT the phone and go over to XDA-Developers and then actually make the phone mine. Removed all unwanted apps,ringtones etc. Even removed stupid pink stay together tmobile boot animation. So in a nut shell, being able to personalize my device no matter what it is SHOULD not be frowned on. Obviously , if your device is only for business and are worried about security then no one would be forcing you to ROOT. But I can say my phone is modded like crazy and have had no security issues what so ever. And yes it has TONS of important stuff like bank accounts and what not. Again NO problems.

Anyway, just my to cents. I am not trolling nor am I trying to get into a heated discussion

[borceg]

It's pretty pathetic when someone can't pay 2.99 for an app.

Is it pathetic if you earn less that 250$ per month ? Not everyone in this f*ckin world lives the american dream, drives v10 mustang, spends money on whatever he/she wants.

[yllus]

It is by no means obscure, atleast not at all to RIM ... to the general consumer market Yes. So the one percent of motivated people doesn't at all diminish RIMs standard where security is concerned. RIM obviously was in the know about this, hence why they addressed it with the 2.0.1 release. The onus is on developers to ensure that their apps are fully compliant and should always try to be a step ahead of pirates especially when resources are provided. If I want to protect my property, I shouldn't have to resort to public forum know how's.

To reiterate: Trying to ensure the security of the PlayBook OS platform through not talking about it online is security via obscurity, which is not really security at all. The original sentiments expressed online is what prompted RIM to spend development time to secure BAR files in v2.0.1. And thanks to this thread, I know to lock my apps to >= v2.0.1. We all win when open communication is encouraged and fostered.

Is it pathetic if you earn less that 250$ per month ? Not everyone in this f*ckin world lives the american dream, drives v10 mustang, spends money on whatever he/she wants.

How does someone who earns $250/mo get their hands on a $200 - $400 tablet with no real purpose outside of entertainment to begin with?

[russnash]

As an app developer for the BB smartphone market who is working on moving into the PB platform as well, I have to point out that the resources are as readily available on the PB to protect your apps from being stolen as it is on the BB smartphone. I protect my apps via a license key which is generated based upon the smartphone PIN, the same unique PIN identifier is also available on the PB and thus the same method can be used. With my apps, if a valid license code is not entered, they simply run in a fully functional 7-day trial mode.

It really doesn't take much extra work to implement such protection.

Russ.

[Chrysalis1156]

Is it pathetic if you earn less that 250$ per month ? Not everyone in this f*ckin world lives the american dream, drives v10 mustang, spends money on whatever he/she wants.

While that's true, are you then assuming the developer doesn't need to earn money from their app to live on either? Maybe that's how they help provide for their families?

[Canuck671]

Is it pathetic if you earn less that 250$ per month ? Not everyone in this f*ckin world lives the american dream, drives v10 mustang, spends money on whatever he/she wants.

Well that being said, perhaps someone who doesn't have the ability to spend money on non essential things, shouldn't

When I was broke, I didn't have a phone, I didn't buy non essentials. Now that I am doing better I do.

In both cases, I never thought I deserved anything more than I had. Sure I wanted things, but realized, that I COULD NOT AFFORD THEM! I never held any disregard towards those that did have the fun toys.

Maybe thats just me.

Cheers


" people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be"
Mark Twain.

[yllus]

As an app developer for the BB smartphone market who is working on moving into the PB platform as well, I have to point out that the resources are as readily available on the PB to protect your apps from being stolen as it is on the BB smartphone. I protect my apps via a license key which is generated based upon the smartphone PIN, the same unique PIN identifier is also available on the PB and thus the same method can be used. With my apps, if a valid license code is not entered, they simply run in a fully functional 7-day trial mode.

It really doesn't take much extra work to implement such protection.

Russ.

Would you mind expanding on this, a quick point-form explanation of how this is best accomplished? How does your app know when to generate a licence key? Where does it get the private key to create the licence key from? Where does the licence key get stored?