[Mercury]

Ok, for those that are b!tching and whining, this is for you.

My ex gf who's brother works at RIM, he and I had a conversation on Friday night about OS2 and where its going.

He is on the programming team that is working with network side of things for QNX. RIM is in total dissaray right now. He told me that the PB was 8 months premature when launched in April. Where the OS software is now is what should have been launched with the PB initially.

His programming team has been working 12+hrs a day since last December working on the code for BBID to work for PIM, and BBM. QNX and BBOS are not playing well together to get the things such as BBM to work on 2 separate PINS and work uniformly on 2 devices.

NO ONE LIED about the time lines. The initial way things were going, they were looking at about 45 days out from launch day to get PIM and BBM and such. Behind the scenes the programmers were hitting snag after snag in the code to get everything to work.

Each timeline that has been quoted, was based on the team leads idea that things were going to be fixed by then. Now after numerous delays some of the team leads were let go and the restructuring of the company has made things worse.

QNX as powerful as it is, is a nightmare to co operate with the existing system. The BBX platform will not suffer the same fate as it works going forward, but the backwards compatibility is where the snags are as far as 2 devices with different pins are concerned.

ONE MORE THING, DO NOT keep your hopes on a Skype app. What people are forgetting, Skype was bought by Micrsosoft and RIM is not going to be getting a licence from Microsoft as it will cost too much.

This is coming directly from my ex's brother. Things are not good internally and there has never been lies, as the 2 at the top were going by what information was given to them.

I'm sorry if this post frustrates people, and starts a flame war and people call me a RIM defender. Damn right I love RIM. Am I disapointed with the news of OS2 coming out with everything being pushed until Feb? Yes, only because I am sick and tired of the whiners that what so much.

For those whiners, sell your playbook if your not going to be happy and just b!tch about the lack of updates. There will still be OS updates, but nothing major like what you are expecting, except there an official Android update coming before year end....

[bb-bandit]

Ok, for those that are b!tching and whining, this is for you.

My ex gf who's brother works at RIM, he and I had a conversation on Friday night about OS2 and where its going.

He is on the programming team that is working with network side of things for QNX. RIM is in total dissaray right now. He told me that the PB was 8 months premature when launched in April. Where the OS software is now is what should have been launched with the PB initially.

His programming team has been working 12+hrs a day since last December working on the code for BBID to work for PIM, and BBM. QNX and BBOS are not playing well together to get the things such as BBM to work on 2 separate PINS and work uniformly on 2 devices.

NO ONE LIED about the time lines. The initial way things were going, they were looking at about 45 days out from launch day to get PIM and BBM and such. Behind the scenes the programmers were hitting snag after snag in the code to get everything to work.

Each timeline that has been quoted, was based on the team leads idea that things were going to be fixed by then. Now after numerous delays some of the team leads were let go and the restructuring of the company has made things worse.

QNX as powerful as it is, is a nightmare to co operate with the existing system. The BBX platform will not suffer the same fate as it works going forward, but the backwards compatibility is where the snags are as far as 2 devices with different pins are concerned.

ONE MORE THING, DO NOT keep your hopes on a Skype app. What people are forgetting, Skype was bought by Micrsosoft and RIM is not going to be getting a licence from Microsoft as it will cost too much.

This is coming directly from my ex's brother. Things are not good internally and there has never been lies, as the 2 at the top were going by what information was given to them.

I'm sorry if this post frustrates people, and starts a flame war and people call me a RIM defender. Damn right I love RIM. Am I disapointed with the news of OS2 coming out with everything being pushed until Feb? Yes, only because I am sick and tired of the whiners that what so much.

For those whiners, sell your playbook if your not going to be happy and just b!tch about the lack of updates. There will still be OS updates, but nothing major like what you are expecting, except there an official Android update coming before year end....

Wow, if this is true...this sounds like a receipe for disaster. Internal turmoil, more programming delays and bugs for future releases, lack of support for popular apps, confused leadership and turnover of project leaders....this is not a good report of what is going on inside the walls of RIM.

[nomi1978]

Well this doesn't surprise me, BBOS is an aging platform and there would be compatibility issues.

Initially there was no talk of BBM being on the PlayBook and that is where the bridge came in. That was there way of getting the tablet in the market and work out the kinks.

Hindsight is 20/20, maybe RIM would have been better suited not to say anything last year and announce it this year at BBW and then release it now. But they didn't think there would be this many issues.

Programming is not an easy feat and I can confirm that the programmers have been working around the clock to get things right. For people saying concentrate on phones and this and that. They have dedicated people working on the phones and there are some people working on both

Am I disappointed **** yes, but I understand the complications of trying to merge two platforms. Hopefully they can work it out.

[ubizmo]

There will still be OS updates, but nothing major like what you are expecting, except there an official Android update coming before year end....

That's major, especially in light of the fact that the announced delay of OS 2 until February contained no mention at all of Android.

If they can in fact get Android to play nice, and they release an OS 1.08 or so with solid Android support well before February, that will be some degree of damage control. I hope it happens.

[Mercury]

Yup sounds like they bit off more than they can chew. And with him telling me the PB was premature by about 8 months, means that RIM caved into their own words and took on too much without realizing they have a monster OS and didn't know how to utilize it

[ferganer]

Ok, for those that are b!tching and whining, this is for you.

My ex gf who's brother works at RIM, he and I had a conversation on Friday night about OS2 and where its going.

He is on the programming team that is working with network side of things for QNX. RIM is in total dissaray right now. He told me that the PB was 8 months premature when launched in April. Where the OS software is now is what should have been launched with the PB initially.

His programming team has been working 12+hrs a day since last December working on the code for BBID to work for PIM, and BBM. QNX and BBOS are not playing well together to get the things such as BBM to work on 2 separate PINS and work uniformly on 2 devices.

NO ONE LIED about the time lines. The initial way things were going, they were looking at about 45 days out from launch day to get PIM and BBM and such. Behind the scenes the programmers were hitting snag after snag in the code to get everything to work.

Each timeline that has been quoted, was based on the team leads idea that things were going to be fixed by then. Now after numerous delays some of the team leads were let go and the restructuring of the company has made things worse.

QNX as powerful as it is, is a nightmare to co operate with the existing system. The BBX platform will not suffer the same fate as it works going forward, but the backwards compatibility is where the snags are as far as 2 devices with different pins are concerned.

ONE MORE THING, DO NOT keep your hopes on a Skype app. What people are forgetting, Skype was bought by Micrsosoft and RIM is not going to be getting a licence from Microsoft as it will cost too much.

This is coming directly from my ex's brother. Things are not good internally and there has never been lies, as the 2 at the top were going by what information was given to them.

I'm sorry if this post frustrates people, and starts a flame war and people call me a RIM defender. Damn right I love RIM. Am I disapointed with the news of OS2 coming out with everything being pushed until Feb? Yes, only because I am sick and tired of the whiners that what so much.

For those whiners, sell your playbook if your not going to be happy and just b!tch about the lack of updates. There will still be OS updates, but nothing major like what you are expecting, except there an official Android update coming before year end....

ok, that's not lying then. it's plain incompetence and poor leadership. anyway, will you buy my playbook? i will sell it to you at 40% of the original price. seriously.

[wobbly]

Ok, for those that are b!tching and whining, this is for you.

My ex gf who's brother works at RIM, he and I had a conversation on Friday night about OS2 and where its going.

He is on the programming team that is working with network side of things for QNX. RIM is in total dissaray right now. He told me that the PB was 8 months premature when launched in April. Where the OS software is now is what should have been launched with the PB initially.

His programming team has been working 12+hrs a day since last December working on the code for BBID to work for PIM, and BBM. QNX and BBOS are not playing well together to get the things such as BBM to work on 2 separate PINS and work uniformly on 2 devices.

NO ONE LIED about the time lines. The initial way things were going, they were looking at about 45 days out from launch day to get PIM and BBM and such. Behind the scenes the programmers were hitting snag after snag in the code to get everything to work.

Each timeline that has been quoted, was based on the team leads idea that things were going to be fixed by then. Now after numerous delays some of the team leads were let go and the restructuring of the company has made things worse.

QNX as powerful as it is, is a nightmare to co operate with the existing system. The BBX platform will not suffer the same fate as it works going forward, but the backwards compatibility is where the snags are as far as 2 devices with different pins are concerned.

ONE MORE THING, DO NOT keep your hopes on a Skype app. What people are forgetting, Skype was bought by Micrsosoft and RIM is not going to be getting a licence from Microsoft as it will cost too much.

This is coming directly from my ex's brother. Things are not good internally and there has never been lies, as the 2 at the top were going by what information was given to them.

I'm sorry if this post frustrates people, and starts a flame war and people call me a RIM defender. Damn right I love RIM. Am I disapointed with the news of OS2 coming out with everything being pushed until Feb? Yes, only because I am sick and tired of the whiners that what so much.

For those whiners, sell your playbook if your not going to be happy and just b!tch about the lack of updates. There will still be OS updates, but nothing major like what you are expecting, except there an official Android update coming before year end....

Yeah, and i danced with a girl who danced with a guy who danced with a girl who danced with the prince of wales lol

[perfectson]

they need to give the early adopters something, IMO. No way wouold I have bought this device for the amount of money I paid if I knew these "delays" were going on or if the product wasn't even considered ready by those internally. They released a prototype of what it should have been but at full cost. that's insane! Give us free apps on the playbook or something...

I'd love to play that spider man game for free for all the headaches I encountered...especially the one where my browser closes by itself while I'm surfing.

[kb5zht]

Wow, if this is true...this sounds like a receipe for disaster. Internal turmoil, more programming delays and bugs for future releases, lack of support for popular apps, confused leadership and turnover of project leaders....this is not a good report of what is going on inside the walls of RIM.

Well, agreed, and will say this... lets assume this is true... and i wont go into the specific problems of believing mother's brother's uncle's four time removed mother-in-law stories...

..But this OP doesnt seem to realize he didnt help his case much. Ten hours a day since september and they cant get it right? That smacks of inability and ineffectiveness... I wouldnt have mentioned that.

I will also say this... and i cant believe i even have to bring it up... doesnt anybody realize the inherent error of complaining about complainers and whining about whiners? If not, do you see the logic in trolling trolls? And what must come of it? Telling dissatisfied customers to shut up and move on?? If you dont like whats on a television channel, what is the appropriate action... changing the channel or writing the television station and order them to halt broadcasting?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Mercury]

Yeah, and i danced with a girl who danced with a guy who danced with a girl who danced with the prince of wales lol

and you think im lying about this? If you know me at all on here you would know, i'm one of the last people to slam RIM. its my ex girlfriends brother.

[Mercury]

Well, agreed, and will say this... lets assume this is true... and i wont go into the specific problems of believing mother's brother's uncle's four time removed mother-in-law stories...

..But this OP doesnt seem to realize he didnt help his case much. Ten hours a day since september and they cant get it right? That smacks of inability and ineffectiveness... I wouldnt have mentioned that.

I will also say this... and i cant believe i even have to bring it up... doesnt anybody realize the inherent error of complaining about complainers and whining about whiners? If not, do you see the logic in trolling trolls? And what must come of it? Telling dissatisfied customers to shut up and move on?? If you dont like whats on a television channel, what is the appropriate action... changing the channel or writing the television station and order them to halt broadcasting?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

You should know, I'm the last person to bash RIM, and I'm saying this with complete frustration that there are problems internally and everyone is making their own speculation of why its being pushed back. I'm giving you the long correct answer to why its delayed. When I've been saying, maybe the programmers are having issues and errors in the code and one thing works and then other doesnt work, its because I've had the inside knowledge. Back in August I can be quoted saying that it would be out by Oct 31st, cause everything was on track. More unforeseen problems have arisen since then.

[bounce007]

Yeah, and i danced with a girl who danced with a guy who danced with a girl who danced with the prince of wales lol

So you danced with a guy - the prince of Wales?

[NickA]

..But this OP doesnt seem to realize he didnt help his case much. Ten hours a day since september and they cant get it right? That smacks of inability and ineffectiveness... I wouldnt have mentioned that.

That's what I've been saying. It's the programming team. I've led teams of 10 or more, nothing on a project of this scale, but on a large scale. When we setup a timeline we have to meet it with no more than 6% over our estimate. We don't drop features, we get the job done. And if my team can't I bring in people who can.

I understand it's a complex process, but the right people/leaders can get it done.

[bb-bandit]

Well, agreed, and will say this... lets assume this is true... and i wont go into the specific problems of believing mother's brother's uncle's four time removed mother-in-law stories...

..But this OP doesnt seem to realize he didnt help his case much. Ten hours a day since september and they cant get it right? That smacks of inability and ineffectiveness... I wouldnt have mentioned that.

I will also say this... and i cant believe i even have to bring it up... doesnt anybody realize the inherent error of complaining about complainers and whining about whiners? If not, do you see the logic in trolling trolls? And what must come of it? Telling dissatisfied customers to shut up and move on?? If you dont like whats on a television channel, what is the appropriate action... changing the channel or writing the television station and order them to halt broadcasting?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I think Netflix tried this recently....didn't turnout so good for their subscribership and stock price.

[Kingkracker]

I think the PB is a great device and I've had mine since launch. No regrets. OS 2.0 was delivered in October as promised albeit for the developers which actually makes sense. Existing applications need to be updated before a roll out to the general public.

It sounds like they are busting **** to get the PIM features integrated which is no small endeavor when you are talking two different operating systems. I write software for a living. I get what an undertaking that is. IMO all the RIM paranoia is whacked.

[baddad61]

Guys and Gals, PB is the most impressive device out there. We use it in our business and it is invaluble. All my employees with BB phones use them out on site it keeps everything flowing.

Yeah its cool to have games, apps, etc. But really, do we want and ipad or other tab? No we want the PB to act as a tool, just as our BB are tools.

If the programing is tough, so be it. If dates are exposed, shame on them...they succumb to public pressures.

Don't take aim at others, I am certain RIM released the PB to satisfy the growing tab market, perhaps a mistake, however we have it.

Good things come to those who wait.....I am waiting.

[tstrike34]

That's what I've been saying. It's the programming team. I've led teams of 10 or more, nothing on a project of this scale, but on a large scale. When we setup a timeline we have to meet it with no more than 6% over our estimate. We don't drop features, we get the job done. And if my team can't I bring in people who can.

I understand it's a complex process, but the right people/leaders can get it done.

Me too.... I have had international teams and milestones. We run into snags, escalation happens... If necessary we bring the whole house in to work the issue around the clock.

Everyone does that.... **** Poor Leadership... I will not crosspost what I said in the last 24 hours (go look in the other threads or search by my name), but I clearly point out crappy leadership and gross incompetence are afoot.

RIM is toast unless the shareholders step in and take control of the leadership. The programmers are not at fault, they are busting their butts (like the OP pointed out). I feel bad that these good folks are taking the brunt of our criticism because of obsolete, irresponsible, manby-panby, lax, shoddy, unresponsive, and frankly condescending leadership. Adding insult to injury, they would not come clean at DevCon in hopes of getting a pass or garnering some sympathy. Instead they chose to ignore it in hopes that this shortcoming would not be discovered ala "There is No Spoon".

As for Skype, once Microsoft acquires RIM... Skype for everyone!!

[Darlaten]

ONE MORE THING, DO NOT keep your hopes on a Skype app. What people are forgetting, Skype was bought by Micrsosoft and RIM is not going to be getting a licence from Microsoft as it will cost too much.

I highly doubt that anyone has hopes that Skype is coming for the Playbook. That shipped sailed a long time ago. But if you are correct, then RIM should take down the Skype logo on their official Playbook website - if they dont, then they are LIEING.

[NickA]

Me too.... I have had international teams and milestones. We run into snags, escalation happens... If necessary we bring the whole house in to work the issue around the clock.

Everyone does that.... **** Poor Leadership... I will not crosspost what I said in the last 24 hours (go look in the other threads or search by my name), but I clearly point out crappy leadership and gross incompetence are afoot.

RIM is toast unless the shareholders step in and take control.

As for Skype, once Microsoft acquires RIM... Skype for everyone!!

Yeah, sounds like you know what I mean. We've user international teams too. We get 24/7 work out of everyone because while I'm sleeping, they are working. Same thing with the "all hand on deck" theory. You have to hit milestones and get the project done. And to me, this was mission critical for RIM.

[kb5zht]

I think Netflix tried this recently....didn't turnout so good for their subscribership and stock price.

Netflix is an excellent example.

I struggle to find positive viewpoints here... and one of the few is that events like this dont happen in a vacuum. You can stick to a few people here or there and not suffer in the grand scheme of things, but When you dump on your entire customer base, like netflix, there are prices to be paid. Over a million subscribers (multiply one million times the subscription price, that is what netflix is now losing per month)...and as quickly.as it happened they had to do damage control. �inevitable but we wont raise prices again!�

This will cost rim. It already is. They will continue to suffer in terms of consumer goodwill and confidence. It is so severe that i dont think the playbook will ever achieve sales to justify it or a successor (i really cant see even those morons trying a playbook II at this point.)

I believe, as i mentioned before, you will see them kinda shuffle the playbook into the background and then do a huge push to advertise their coming QNX phones. 70 million customers vs. 250k slighted ones..... well, who do you think is gonna get the priority treatment?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[drecar]

i suspected as much. you just cant say to 70 million users that your device is no longer compatible with the new os.

but wouldnt it be easier to just update the previous handsets to bbx while ensuring current handset apps users paid for were available for free in bbx versions? apparently bbx is working properly. why not this approach?

[Kingkracker]

Yeah, sounds like you know what I mean. We've user international teams too. We get 24/7 work out of everyone because while I'm sleeping, they are working. Same thing with the "all hand on deck" theory. You have to hit milestones and get the project done. And to me, this was mission critical for RIM.

It sounds like project managers are making alot of assumptions here. Unless you are there you can't point fingers and assume that incompetence is afoot. I do not agree with that mentality. IMO RIM has implemented QNX in a very short timeline. The PB talks to BB phones for PIM. That in itself is a great feature.

An operating system project is a very different animal than an application software project. They aren't turning over a stand alone app but an integrated operating system which talks to the hardware and all the software. They need to make sure the security features are not compromised nor the system rendered unstable.

I'd rather wait and see OS 2 working well than RIM caving to the negativity and rushing an incomplete product.

[NickA]

An operating system project is a very different animal than an application software project. They aren't turning over a stand alone app but an integrated operating system which talks to the hardware and all the software. They need to make sure the security features are not compromised nor the system rendered unstable.

I'd rather wait and see OS 2 working well than RIM caving to the negativity and rushing an incomplete product.

"integrated operating system which talks to the hardware and all the software"

If this were the case, where is auto-correct, or auto-capitalize? As I've said before, IO is at the core. That's the time to implement something like this. QNX is done, they aren't writing it. It's like Android. It's done. Vendors can take it and write to the kernel if they need to. They can implement their own features. Look at Swype and how it integrates with the OS.

It's code, not rocket science. They right people can get the job done in a timely manner.

[Kingkracker]

"integrated operating system which talks to the hardware and all the software"

If this were the case, where is auto-correct, or auto-capitalize? As I've said before, IO is at the core. That's the time to implement something like this. QNX is done, they aren't writing it. It's like Android. It's done. Vendors can take it and write to the kernel if they need to. They can implement their own features. Look at Swype and how it integrates with the OS.

It's code, not rocket science. They right people can get the job done in a timely manner.

No OS is done. It's in a perpetual state of constant improvement. Android is no more done than iOS or any other platform. They are looking to integrate PIM and BBM with QNX. Spell check and auto cap will come by default with the others.

Code isn't rocket science but alot of rocket science uses code.

[bbqkid8]

The programmers at RIM are probably the brightest, not only in Ontario or Canada, but the world! Especially coming from the University of Waterloo who have such a world-renowned faculty of computer science and mathematics. So for them to hit snag after snag doesn't speak about their incompetence, it speaks for the complexity of the operating system.

RIM may have bit off more than they can chew by saying they could get it in at a decent time, but if the best in the world are having a hard time with it then what are they to do? They only promised these dates because people like us force them to give us dates.

Once they get this done things will start rolling... I hope.