07-04-12 12:45 PM
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  1. mikeo007's Avatar
    And the gestures on OS X have real-world analogues? I can never tell the difference between bringing up Mission Control or Expose. It's totally unintuitive.

    And this is where I disagree with experts on UI. The computer is a device on its own. It should have its own special way of interaction. To me, making things like Calendar look like a physical calendar and make pages flip is totally counter-productive. There are so many ways to make a digital calendar so much more convenient to use yet Apple has gone backwards and make it difficult because of this so-called real-life analogy. And I absolutely hate those flyers that mimic page flip. If I want to flip pages, I would rather flip through a physical flyer, not one built with flash that slows me down.
    Sorry, I must have missed the part where I stated that apple's gestures were in any way intuitive.

    Also, saying that you disagree with UI experts, then agreeing with their assessments seems to be a bit of a fallacy. I challenge you to point me to a single UI "expert" who thinks that real world analogues work well in computer applications like calendars or books.

    Let me make a really simple example for you.

    Tapping and dragging: good. An action you could repeat in the physical world and get similar results (in the right context of course)

    Swiping from an edge to perform some arbitrary action: bad. There is no place in the physical world where swiping or moving from a defined area (real or imaginary) will accomplish some arbitrary task that has no actual relation to the swipe or the area swiped.
    07-04-12 09:25 AM
  2. tebore's Avatar
    I realize that iOS manages its memory better than Playbook, and that many open apps are of *less* impact than on other platforms, but it still does not have an unlimited amount of swap space and the method of seeing what's running is IMO *NOT* intuitive (whether it's holding a button down or double push or "claw" down- I can't remember and may have gotten it wrong because I'm not a daily iOS user- we have a bunch in the lab for testing and I've exercised them enough before and could figure it out again, but it just proves my point that it's not immediately obvious vs the Playbook where you can see what's running as soon as you swipe up.... blah blah
    All BS and opinion. Fact is you have no idea how iOS or droid for that matter handle memory.

    How is the PBOS more intuitive? It's not. The fact of the matter is besides pinch to zoom all the gestures on all devices become less intuitive as they add more of them. The simplest thing in the world is to super simplify. Giving users too much credit is a bad thing when you want to sell to the masses. One home button to escape all mistakes works great. So Great Google copied it.

    RIM with it's inconsistent BB Action key on they phones annoyed me to no end. Sometimes the advanced menu was there, sometimes it's buried in another softmenu. They carried it to the PB. WHY THE would you have half the settings for the default apps in "Settings" and the other half in the actual app. Put it in the app or put it in "Settings". Same crap with droid.

    All the blah blah blah about letting the user manage memory? It's stupid. Think about it you'd have to actually close apps and make sure you're not running the phone ragged. MS did it that way, people aren't technical they'll open up crap they don't need till it completely stalls, just think about all those total freeze ups on windows with the HDD light flashing.

    The way 90% of the world uses a smartphone is make a call lock. Pull out phone check mail, reply lock. Waiting on the bus play some angry birds time to get off? lock. check weather. Lock. You don't want to sit there thinking hmm should I let these things run? Which should I let run?

    Forget to turn off an app and your battery is dead.

    It's all BS this stuff RIM keeps promoting about real multi-tasking. I had a Nokia Symbian smart phone and worked with old Palms. They did real multi-tasking. The user experience wasn't all that great.

    In the words of the older generation Multi-tasking is overrated. No one really "multi-tasks."

    I agree that some things can be done better like why have a calender look like a real life one. However I get why Apple did it. Because they are stylish and selling to the masses. Imagine a 90 year old grand mother using the iPad they'll recognize how a calender works and looks. Having a more effective calender will look cold and technical to her she'll be scared off before picking it up.
    Last edited by tebore; 07-04-12 at 09:34 AM.
    07-04-12 09:31 AM
  3. kbz1960's Avatar
    All BS and opinion. Fact is you have no idea how iOS or droid for that matter handle memory.

    How is the PBOS more intuitive? It's not. The fact of the matter is besides pinch to zoom all the gestures on all devices become less intuitive as they add more of them. The simplest thing in the world is to super simplify. Giving users too much credit is a bad thing when you want to sell to the masses. One home button to escape all mistakes works great. So Great Google copied it.

    RIM with it's inconsistent BB Action key on they phones annoyed me to no end. Sometimes the advanced menu was there, sometimes it's buried in another softmenu. They carried it to the PB. WHY THE would you have half the settings for the default apps in "Settings" and the other half in the actual app. Put it in the app or put it in "Settings". Same crap with droid.

    All the blah blah blah about letting the user manage memory? It's stupid. Think about it you'd have to actually close apps and make sure you're not running the phone ragged. MS did it that way, people aren't technical they'll open up crap they don't need till it completely stalls, just think about all those total freeze ups on windows with the HDD light flashing.

    The way 90% of the world uses a smartphone is make a call lock. Pull out phone check mail, reply lock. Waiting on the bus play some angry birds time to get off? lock. check weather. Lock. You don't want to sit there thinking hmm should I let these things run? Which should I let run?

    Forget to turn off an app and your battery is dead.

    It's all BS this stuff RIM keeps promoting about real multi-tasking. I had a Nokia Symbian smart phone and worked with old Palms. They did real multi-tasking. The user experience wasn't all that great.

    In the words of the older generation Multi-tasking is overrated. No one really "multi-tasks."

    I agree that some things can be done better like why have a calender look like a real life one. However I get why Apple did it. Because they are stylish and selling to the masses. Imagine a 90 year old grand mother using the iPad they'll recognize how a calender works and looks. Having a more effective calender will look cold and technical to her she'll be scared off before picking it up.
    Isn't this also opinion?
    07-04-12 09:37 AM
  4. FF22's Avatar
    And I guess this is why everyone continues to INVENT a new way of doing things intuitively.

    What is intuitive to me is just not to someone else. Last week I helped my sister use her intuitive iphone when I've touched an iphone about twice in my life. She's had the phone for more than a year and had no idea how to attach (or copy/paste) a link to an email.
    07-04-12 09:47 AM
  5. polytope's Avatar
    Sorry, I must have missed the part where I stated that apple's gestures were in any way intuitive.

    Also, saying that you disagree with UI experts, then agreeing with their assessments seems to be a bit of a fallacy. I challenge you to point me to a single UI "expert" who thinks that real world analogues work well in computer applications like calendars or books.

    Let me make a really simple example for you.

    Tapping and dragging: good. An action you could repeat in the physical world and get similar results (in the right context of course)

    Swiping from an edge to perform some arbitrary action: bad. There is no place in the physical world where swiping or moving from a defined area (real or imaginary) will accomplish some arbitrary task that has no actual relation to the swipe or the area swiped.
    The swiping gesture on the PlayBook is intuitive FOR THE PlayBook. That's what's important. You don't make a bike easier to ride by making it more like walking (though some people have invented things with wheels that can be made to go forward by "walking").
    07-04-12 09:49 AM
  6. mikeo007's Avatar
    The swiping gesture on the PlayBook is intuitive FOR THE PlayBook. That's what's important. You don't make a bike easier to ride by making it more like walking (though some people have invented things with wheels that can be made to go forward by "walking").
    The swiping action is not intuitive. If someone who had never used a Playbook before were to try and figure out that action, it would be a process of instruction or trial and error.

    In your bike example, the mechanism is visible and someone can understand how it functions simply by looking at the design and components (which are very simplistic).
    Also, biking is not walking. They share some similar traits since they are both forms of travel, but you can't make a direct analogue between the two.
    07-04-12 10:01 AM
  7. tebore's Avatar
    Isn't this also opinion?
    I never tried to present it as fact like he did.

    Well except for the fact that was talking outta his .
    07-04-12 10:03 AM
  8. tebore's Avatar
    The swiping gesture on the PlayBook is intuitive FOR THE PlayBook.
    No it's not.
    07-04-12 10:05 AM
  9. kbz1960's Avatar
    I never tried to present it as fact like he did.

    Well except for the fact that was talking outta his .
    LOL I'll have to go back and read it again.
    Last edited by kbz1960; 07-04-12 at 11:03 AM. Reason: I have trouble comprehending what I read.
    07-04-12 10:12 AM
  10. apengue1's Avatar
    The question is, if it does not matter if those apps in the background are running, why give users the option to see the list at all?
    It is merely a list of recently used apps. Its there to quickly open up an app you may have recently opened, instead of going to the home screen. There are many misconceptions about ios multitasking. Even employees at the 'genius' bar recommend to close your apps, which is complete nonsense.

    The following is official Apple documentation on the matter:

    http://developer.apple.com/library/i...tionsFlow.html




    Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using CrackBerry Forums App/Tapatalk
    07-04-12 10:26 AM
  11. apengue1's Avatar
    All BS and opinion. Fact is you have no idea how iOS or droid for that matter handle memory.

    How is the PBOS more intuitive? It's not. The fact of the matter is besides pinch to zoom all the gestures on all devices become less intuitive as they add more of them. The simplest thing in the world is to super simplify. Giving users too much credit is a bad thing when you want to sell to the masses. One home button to escape all mistakes works great. So Great Google copied it.

    RIM with it's inconsistent BB Action key on they phones annoyed me to no end. Sometimes the advanced menu was there, sometimes it's buried in another softmenu. They carried it to the PB. WHY THE would you have half the settings for the default apps in "Settings" and the other half in the actual app. Put it in the app or put it in "Settings". Same crap with droid.

    All the blah blah blah about letting the user manage memory? It's stupid. Think about it you'd have to actually close apps and make sure you're not running the phone ragged. MS did it that way, people aren't technical they'll open up crap they don't need till it completely stalls, just think about all those total freeze ups on windows with the HDD light flashing.

    The way 90% of the world uses a smartphone is make a call lock. Pull out phone check mail, reply lock. Waiting on the bus play some angry birds time to get off? lock. check weather. Lock. You don't want to sit there thinking hmm should I let these things run? Which should I let run?

    Forget to turn off an app and your battery is dead.

    It's all BS this stuff RIM keeps promoting about real multi-tasking. I had a Nokia Symbian smart phone and worked with old Palms. They did real multi-tasking. The user experience wasn't all that great.

    In the words of the older generation Multi-tasking is overrated. No one really "multi-tasks."

    I agree that some things can be done better like why have a calender look like a real life one. However I get why Apple did it. Because they are stylish and selling to the masses. Imagine a 90 year old grand mother using the iPad they'll recognize how a calender works and looks. Having a more effective calender will look cold and technical to her she'll be scared off before picking it up.
    While I agree with you on some points, I find multitasking to be a really big deal. I find myself using it so much on the PB that I find it would suck not to have it for myself personally.

    Even bb handsets multitask to an extent with running apps. I like this sort of control and I use it towards being more productive. Everything shouldn't be so easy that its limiting. Blackberry comes in to fill this gap, because in the end theres people that do, and people that dont. lololol.

    Basically, you wont win anything by being exactly the same as the other players in the market. There's only so much room... What RIM is doing with BB10 is good, and it really differentiates it from the other platforms. If you look at Android, many users are tech inclined, Im sure they will have no problems getting around BB10, and enjoying the experience.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using CrackBerry Forums App/Tapatalk
    07-04-12 10:37 AM
  12. mikeo007's Avatar
    So you're picked up an iPad and it was instantly intuitive to take 5 fingers and do whatever action to bring up whatever response? Wow, you mean you didn't have to take a little time to learn anything about it? You just knew because it is how you would've designed it. OK

    Let's say I've never used an iPad. I should be able to pick it up and know all of the swiping gestures with never reading or being shown how to do it?

    Was it also intuitive to go to the c: prompt and issue the command ren *.txt *.doc

    The point being nothing or very little is intuitive unless you designed it yourself otherwise you need to learn about it.



    LOL I'll have to go back and read it again.
    Do you have some problem with your eyesight or reading comprehension? Where did I say the ipad was intuitive at all? In fact, I agreed that it was not in my earlier post. Stop letting your fanboy or anti-apple rage blind your judgement.
    07-04-12 10:40 AM
  13. zzbsb's Avatar
    The swiping action is not intuitive. If someone who had never used a Playbook before were to try and figure out that action, it would be a process of instruction or trial and error.

    In your bike example, the mechanism is visible and someone can understand how it functions simply by looking at the design and components (which are very simplistic).
    Also, biking is not walking. They share some similar traits since they are both forms of travel, but you can't make a direct analogue between the two.
    That's why when you open your brand new Playbook, it gives you instructions how to swipe using the bezel.
    07-04-12 10:55 AM
  14. kbz1960's Avatar
    Do you have some problem with your eyesight or reading comprehension? Where did I say the ipad was intuitive at all? In fact, I agreed that it was not in my earlier post. Stop letting your fanboy or anti-apple rage blind your judgement.
    Why yes I do, sorry. And yes I do have a problem with my eyesight, nothing I can do about that or science. BTW I'm not a fanboy and have no apple rage.

    While I picked your reply I guess I was still thinking about other post here I read. So apologies. I will go change my post.
    07-04-12 11:01 AM
  15. FF22's Avatar
    That's why when you open your brand new Playbook, it gives you instructions how to swipe using the bezel.
    But if you now pass a pb to another person what will they do - look for some button. And, yes, the power button will awaken a pb but then what. But since it is a touch-screen device someone might do something ON the screen's surface but what?

    But when I was first handed an ipad, I swiped it. I did not realize that the "home" button was not the power button and did not want to accidentally (why is that word not "accidently!") lose something by powering it off.

    What's intuitive? What needed to be taught? What is more natural after learning?

    The argument will end when devices respond to our spoken words or better yet, thoughts. I can just see a library filled with everyone trying to speak to their device - mayhem!
    07-04-12 12:45 PM
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