07-04-12 12:45 PM
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  1. bitek's Avatar
    local stores have the galaxy tab on sale and i took one for test drive. to be perfectly honest i have never had any apple or google products to play with for a longer period so i wanted to take this opportunity to check out android tablet.

    after couple of days with samsung tablet and honeycomb i have mixed feelings. there are some things i like and dislike.

    first of all my initial experience with the tablet was frustrating to say at least because i kept swiping to close down apps.

    after couple of days i have better hang on android system.

    so what do i like. the fact that there are some cool apps that i want to see on playbook. this is probably given.

    i like that android allows to set any browser (opera etc) to be default browser for certain task

    stock android browser not to mention opera or dolphine browser are far better than any playbook browser in terms of features and raw performance. i am surprised that rim did not put more effort into playbook internet browser 2.0. i would love to see opera at some point because it is one of the best mobile browsers on tablets imo.

    now some stuff that i frankly find it stupid. it is an absurd that android app realtor.ca is not compatible with the galaxy tab and i actually need to run it from my playbook. i found several apps that do not work at all with galaxy tab. even big names like firefox or economist magazine for android.

    It is actually fuuny that there are android apps that will work on every single playbook but not on all android tablets. This reminds me of blackberry phone issues where some apps work on one phone but not on another.

    the selection of apps in android market is ... well extensive but the problem is that many are designed for android phones and do not look that good on 7" tablet or just look weird.

    also as mentioned the selection is extensive but quality is questionable. just to give one example. i was looking for good nIghtstand for android and in fact there are hundres of them in android play store. the problem is that i failed to find one that would be comparable in quality to antair nightstand. i am serious when i say that this one app smokes most of android nightstands in terms of quality. i am yet to find one that i actually like and gives me same options.

    overall i find gingerbread too complicated. i got used to it but playbook qnx "simplicity" or "sophistication" is so refreshing. the way apps are permanently deleted in gingerbread is just stupid

    android widgets are very cool. great idea and i hope to see it in os10. i am sucker for visuals and i like live wallpapers.

    google apps integration with the tablet is just awesome. gps and google maps, places work so well. gps and google maps work extremely well. so is google places. i wish google maps and gps works so well on playbook.

    google pulled all my calendar and contacts from my blackberry and put it right into contacts and calendar of the tablet. i knew that this is possible with the calendar but when i saw contacts on galaxy i was very impressed.

    I dislike a lot the fact that there is no way to hide bottom task bar and it is always there. Annoying to say at least and it does ruine experience with games.

    Sent from Blackberry 9810 with Crackberry forum app
    Last edited by bitek; 07-02-12 at 09:37 PM.
    07-02-12 08:28 PM
  2. pkcable's Avatar
    Moved to Android Forum
    07-02-12 08:46 PM
  3. mapsonburt's Avatar
    > Moved to Android Forum

    Mod... Did you even READ the OP's post? It is. PlayBook users experience with a Galaxy Tab.. Very relevant to THIS forum. Please put it back.
    MrBugMan and rcm1301 like this.
    07-02-12 09:18 PM
  4. MrBugMan's Avatar
    > Moved to Android Forum

    Mod... Did you even READ the OP's post? It is. PlayBook users experience with a Galaxy Tab.. Very relevant to THIS forum. Please put it back.
    I too have both Galaxy Tab 7.0 plus and PlayBook. This should have stayed in PB forum. I would have added to this thread my experiences between the two. Move this back to PB forum so I can help those being tempted by refurbished 7.0 plus as well as upcoming Nexus 7!
    07-02-12 10:16 PM
  5. bitek's Avatar
    Moved to Android Forum
    yes this should be in playbook forum
    07-03-12 07:57 AM
  6. pkcable's Avatar
    Ok moved and titled to make it clear that you are a PB user looking at the Galaxy tab. Hopefully we are good now?
    07-03-12 11:05 AM
  7. bitek's Avatar
    Ok moved and titled to make it clear that you are a PB user looking at the Galaxy tab. Hopefully we are good now?
    thank you. way better header !
    07-03-12 11:19 AM
  8. apengue1's Avatar
    So... Does anyone have any thoughts in regards to the OP?! Lol! Im waiting to hear some feedback here..
    07-03-12 11:44 AM
  9. bitek's Avatar
    The point is that Android as popular as it is has its own challenges. Some similar to what Rim has now with its phone. QNX does not need much to succeed. 1. does not need all apps. Just good apps. etc. etc. etc.
    07-03-12 12:08 PM
  10. FF22's Avatar
    I like the comparison and have not ventured into the other forums to view various perspectives.

    Then, again, some in those forums might wonder why this comparison of a pb to other device is in their forum.

    Can't win!
    07-03-12 12:22 PM
  11. kbz1960's Avatar
    Nice post OP. I haven't used android for that long but my impressions were very similar to yours. Gimme the pb UI anytime.
    07-03-12 12:44 PM
  12. f_d's Avatar
    I also bought an Android 4.0 tablet on the weekend: granted it's one of those Chinese "MID" tablets that are about a dime a dozen, and it has limited Flash storage and RAM, but $189 for a brand new 10.1 inch 1024x600 capacitive touch screen Android 4.0.3 tablet was too much of a deal to pass up.. I'm not giving up on RIM by any means, but one of my big "wants" was for a slightly bigger screen device, so I wanted to see if it really makes that much of a difference (the answer is: for gaming and media, no it doesn't- they're just as enjoyable on a smaller screen, and I can always use the HDMI to output to a big screen, but for web content consumption (like reading Crackberry.com), then the big screen is a big plus)..

    The tablet is Android 4.0.3, so it's about as up-to-date as you can get, and right away, I didn't like the UI.. I had played with the Android 4 and Apple tablets before Christmas last year to see what was the easiest to learn as I wanted get my elderly parents a tablet as a Christmas gift- I took one look at all the buttons and settings and various screens and knew that my parents would never be able to figure it out, and that's really still the case.. I also looked at the iPad, and it was better, but it still suffers from Steve Jobs' legacy: I disagree with most of his decisions about user interface: simple is only better to a certain extent; once you go down too low, you find you can't do certain things effectively, and things actually get *more* complicated and non-intuitive.. Case in point: iOS has an incredibly clumsy multitasking interface and multitouch gestures (like that stupid "claw" gesture for multitasking) are totally non-intuitive (other than the pinch to zoom/rotate, which is about the only multi-fingered action that makes sense), but in any case, because iOS was not intuitive about what apps are running, it would be inevitable that my parents would start up about 30 apps and not realize that just pushing the home button would not close half of them, the tablet would slow to a crawl or stop working and I'd have to field tech support calls, which is not easy with tech-illiterate parents).. Anyways, the Playbook won out on all sides except size (I wanted a larger screen for them), and my parents are very happy with the device, they figured out the user interface and were navigating like pros within a day, they can get their email, browse the web, play a few games, watch some media, and I've only ever had to take one tech support call, and that was when my dad accidentally turned off the wi-fi connection one day and couldn't figure out how to turn it back on.

    Anyways, back on to the Android- I understand the concept, and even like the intent, but I hate the implementation: instead of just an app selector/launcher like you have on iOS (or even the Playbook, although it integrates the running app view as well, which makes it infinitely more intuitive than the Apple), they wanted a desktop-like experience, where you can place frequently used icons and widgets and generally customize your view of the device, but why the heck does it start with the second view from the left, why not the first screen like every other application in the world?? There's one view on the left, and I think 3 or 4 to the right when you scroll the desktop views (I say it's a bug that nobody wants to admit to: index things starting at screen "0", but the "starting screen" was coded as "1").. This needs to be more intuitive: a reduced overview or some other indication showing which view you're in, and it needs to be configurable: if I only want a single view, I should be able to set that and delete the others (maybe you can, but I couldn't figure out where to do this- again non-intuitive)..

    Android handles multitasking better than iOS, and it at least has a virtual button you can touch to see what's running instead of that awkward claw gesture in iOS or the multi-mode home button (hold it down and wait, which slows task switching down), but like Apples home button, it also does multiple duty: if you're in an app and you touch it, it shows what else in running, but at the home screen, it shows the last few apps you ran, vs. what's currently running.. While I much prefer the Playbook method of always showing what's running, and being able to swap tasks by just bezel swiping, if you're going to have a task button, this is one situation where it should only ever do that one thing, and not change depending on where you are.. And things like closing apps: just like on iOS, you're never really sure if an app is closed by pushing the Back button (or the home button on iOS), and because you can't instantly see what apps are running but instead have to pull up a special status screen or push a button, it slows things down.. On the Playbook, you just swipe up or hit the close button and the app is gone, no questions; much more intuitive. (As an aside, I hope they keep the swipe up gesture in BB10 to bring up the overview of running apps and the app selector: as compelling and efficient as the "peek" gesture promises to be, I can see where you could easily get lost in a hierarchy of apps if you don't have a quick way to see where you are and what's running).

    In terms of apps, yes, there are a lot of Android apps- a lot of very good ones- and the book and media stores are integrated, but I found that I really don't like the Google Play store at all.. With 600,000 apps, you'd think that a search company like Google would come up with a way of organizing all those apps and allowing you to find things effectively, but my experience was just the opposite.. The PlayBook app store is not bad at all- reasonably easy to navigate (the search is not very good though), and the categorization of things is pretty decent.. The model to beat however is still the Apple iTunes store.. It has it all: content, organization and the flashy attention getting layout.

    In terms of browsing: the Android device did have the Flash Player installed, so I could browse anything on it that I could do on the Playbook- more so, in fact because both the browser and Flash implementation identify themselves as Android vs. Playbook.. Although RIM claims the Playbook browser is "desktop class", in fact, because it identifies itself with RIM/Playbook ID strings, many web apps will not work properly (eg, Hulu, even though you have Flash, it won't run because it identifies itself as a Playbook implementation). RIM needs to change both the browser *AND* their Flash implementation to either ID themselves as some industry-standard desktop browser/desktop Flash implementation, or allow user-definable IDs on both.. I tried both the native Android browser as well as the latest Dolphin.. Now I like Dolphin, I use it on the PlayBook as well, but it's slow, it's slow on the Playbook, and it's slow on a real Android tablet... That said, it has features that I'd really like to see on the Playbook browser: user-definable agent strings (half the battle), a plug-in capability (ad-block!!!), and gesture support (swiping from tab to tab).. As I said earlier- web browsing is the one area where I think the big screen definitely makes a big difference: you can see the entire web page in most cases without having the pinch zoom or scroll side-to-side, touching links is much easier and much more accurate (although in the last Playbook 2.1 dev OS, I swear they've tweaked the touch accuracy, because I've been reading the Crackberry forums and touching the tiny numbers to scroll from page to page of topics without zooming in, and it seems I just can't miss: it seems to read my mind and register exactly where I wanted to touch, never mind what my fat fingers actually said)..

    So, at the end of the day, I still love my Playbook- there are things it does so much better than any other device out there (but at the same time, there are things, like the browser, which are close, but where RIM has not followed through.. App selection, although pretty decent, is definitely one area where RIM has to improve- the ease of porting to the Playbook, and the Android player will definitely improve things, but what they really need to do is allow the Google Play store to be installed and run directly on the Playbook.. I understand they are not doing this now due to security (and likely revenue) issues, but to deal with security in Enterprise use cases, they can add an IT policy to prevent installation of Google Play and only allow Android apps through RIM's AppWorld, but for the general consumer, the ability to directly download and use the vast majority of Android apps without waiting for the publisher to decide to re-package and list it on AppWorld would be a very compelling sales story.. App compatibility is not even likely to be a big issue: as the OP stated, there are many existing Android apps that work on one Android device but not another- it doesn't seem to have hurt Android's success in the least..
    Tim1131, OT-Bound and Sucroid like this.
    07-03-12 01:49 PM
  13. bitek's Avatar
    The tablet is Android 4.0.3, so it's about as up-to-date as you can get, and right away, .
    one quick question. one thing that is sooooooooooooo annoying is that taskbar cannot be hidden what so ever on honeycomb. is that still the same with ice cream sandwitch ?
    07-03-12 02:11 PM
  14. bitek's Avatar
    I like the comparison and have not ventured into the other forums to view various perspectives.

    Then, again, some in those forums might wonder why this comparison of a pb to other device is in their forum.

    Can't win!
    the thing is this. i feel that rim despite its problems has gold on its hands. the thing is that rim is trying to go away from what delevopers hate the most with blackberry phones [different screen sizes, too many models etc]. google in a way is making the same mistake that rim has done in the past. so if rim plays it well [limited # of models.laser eye focus] we will see developers supporting rim more and more. i think rim should take ideas from competition [from apple uniformity of its products and from google licencing strategy] and get it done on its own. rim should licence bb10 to selected manufactures and have better control over the final product.

    i like the samsung but to be honest the biggest thing that i like about it is opera browser or maxthorn which are just perfect. if this browser was developed for playbook i would have no need for galaxy tab.

    browsing experience on playbook is ok but far from perfect.
    07-03-12 02:19 PM
  15. Rooster99's Avatar
    Ok moved and titled to make it clear that you are a PB user looking at the Galaxy tab. Hopefully we are good now?
    PK, thank you for listening. Much appreciated - there are many mods who wouldn't have (referring to other sets of forums, the Crackberry mods are a pretty standout bunch).

    - R.
    Harryl6134 likes this.
    07-03-12 02:59 PM
  16. Blkacesvf41's Avatar
    Ok, who read all of f_d's post? That was the longest post I've ever seen! Lol
    07-03-12 04:05 PM
  17. tebore's Avatar
    Ok, who read all of f_d's post? That was the longest post I've ever seen! Lol
    Unfortunately I did. Most of it is BS and conjecture.
    07-03-12 05:53 PM
  18. apengue1's Avatar
    but in any case, because iOS was not intuitive about what apps are running, it would be inevitable that my parents would start up about 30 apps and not realize that just pushing the home button would not close half of them, the tablet would slow to a crawl or stop working and I'd have to field tech support calls, which is not easy with tech-illiterate parents).
    So anyway, you are completely wrong about that part, and unfortunately, I stopped reading there. Maybe later I'll get around to read the rest of your post, I'll see.

    I don't own Apple products, I don't like them either, but iOS manages its own memory, and those so called 30 apps are not running, maybe only about 3-5 are. And they're not actually running, they're just in memory, to top it off. And no, when you double tap the home button, it is not a list of running apps. Actually, it is the simplest of all when it comes to that.
    Last edited by apengue1; 07-04-12 at 12:38 AM.
    07-03-12 07:41 PM
  19. Canuck671's Avatar
    I too have been test driving the galaxy tab line. I am so spoiled by my phone and playbook combo.

    The intuitive nature of the playbook is hard to beat.
    elphie28 likes this.
    07-03-12 07:49 PM
  20. mikeo007's Avatar
    So anyway, you are completely wrong about that part, and unfortunately, I stopped reading there. Maybe later I'll get around to read the rest of your post, I'll see.

    I don't own Apple products, I don't like them either, but iOS manages its own memory, and those so called 30 apps are not running, maybe only about 3-5 are. And no, when you double tap the home button, it is not a list of running apps. Actually, it is the simplest of all when it comes to that.
    Lol, I did the EXACT same thing. Read to that point, realized he was talking out his , and didn't care about the rest of his post.

    To the OP, thanks for the comparison, but be careful when you're comparing an ancient Android OS to a more current Playbook OS.

    Also, you're statement about apps running on ALL Playbooks but not all Android tablets is silly. There is only one Playbook; it's like saying "My house key fits in all my front doors of this house. Your house key doesn't fit in every front door in your town, so mine is better."
    07-03-12 08:25 PM
  21. Sucroid's Avatar
    So anyway, you are completely wrong about that part, and unfortunately, I stopped reading there. Maybe later I'll get around to read the rest of your post, I'll see.

    I don't own Apple products, I don't like them either, but iOS manages its own memory, and those so called 30 apps are not running, maybe only about 3-5 are. And they're not actually running, they're just in memory, to top it off. And no, when you double tap the home button, it is not a list of running apps. Actually, it is the simplest of all when it comes to that.
    The question is, if it does not matter if those apps in the background are running, why give users the option to see the list at all?
    07-04-12 12:42 AM
  22. f_d's Avatar
    I realize that iOS manages its memory better than Playbook, and that many open apps are of *less* impact than on other platforms, but it still does not have an unlimited amount of swap space and the method of seeing what's running is IMO *NOT* intuitive (whether it's holding a button down or double push or "claw" down- I can't remember and may have gotten it wrong because I'm not a daily iOS user- we have a bunch in the lab for testing and I've exercised them enough before and could figure it out again, but it just proves my point that it's not immediately obvious vs the Playbook where you can see what's running as soon as you swipe up, and certainly not obvious enough that my parents could figure it out.. With the Playbook's UI, there are a few more basic actions (swipe left/right to swap tasks, swipe up to see the home screen and running tasks, swipe down to see options, and corner swipes for the system status bar), but those are consistent: they are distinct and individual actions with distinct meanings that don't change function.. One button on the iPad *looks* simple, but if its function changes depending on where, when, how long and how many times you click it, that is now IMO, a much *more* complicated arrangement, and is where Steve Jobs went wrong: the appearance of simplicity vs actual functional simplicity.. Yes, a tech savvy individual could figure it out and get used to it, but you don't know my parents- it was very clear after looking at the three platforms that the other two were just too complicated for them..

    And for those who didn't read my long winded original post, that was basically the gist, that the Android platform, although improved in ICS, is still way too busy and complex, with too many inconsistencies in my view..
    07-04-12 01:23 AM
  23. avidberry's Avatar
    Tab 7 Plus wins:
    1. Apps (given)
    2. You can use it as a phone (calls and texts)
    3. Can be used as mobile hotspot (at least my Tab 8.9 does)
    4. Better memory management
    5. It supports SIM card (don't assume everyone live in US/Europe/Japan where wifi coverage is abundant)
    6. More stable browser and personally, I don't really want a desktop-like experience in my 7" tablet.

    PB wins:
    1. More intuitive OS
    2. Sturdy built, albeit thicker

    To be noted:
    1. It's unreasonable to say many bad apps in Google Play. GP is maybe tenfold bigger (maybe) than Appworld and given the fact that there are so many bad apps in Appworld, GP will has at least ten times more.
    2. ICS is much better than Honeycomb, so some of the problems in Tab depicted by OP no longer exist
    07-04-12 03:56 AM
  24. mikeo007's Avatar
    I realize that iOS manages its memory better than Playbook, and that many open apps are of *less* impact than on other platforms, but it still does not have an unlimited amount of swap space and the method of seeing what's running is IMO *NOT* intuitive (whether it's holding a button down or double push or "claw" down- I can't remember and may have gotten it wrong because I'm not a daily iOS user- we have a bunch in the lab for testing and I've exercised them enough before and could figure it out again, but it just proves my point that it's not immediately obvious vs the Playbook where you can see what's running as soon as you swipe up, and certainly not obvious enough that my parents could figure it out.. With the Playbook's UI, there are a few more basic actions (swipe left/right to swap tasks, swipe up to see the home screen and running tasks, swipe down to see options, and corner swipes for the system status bar), but those are consistent: they are distinct and individual actions with distinct meanings that don't change function.. One button on the iPad *looks* simple, but if its function changes depending on where, when, how long and how many times you click it, that is now IMO, a much *more* complicated arrangement, and is where Steve Jobs went wrong: the appearance of simplicity vs actual functional simplicity.. Yes, a tech savvy individual could figure it out and get used to it, but you don't know my parents- it was very clear after looking at the three platforms that the other two were just too complicated for them..

    And for those who didn't read my long winded original post, that was basically the gist, that the Android platform, although improved in ICS, is still way too busy and complex, with too many inconsistencies in my view..
    Hi there, I'm an HCI specialist. You are wrong. The gestures on the playbook are no more intuitive than the gestures on iOS. There are no real-world analogues for any of those actions, which makes them impossible to be intuitive to a new user.

    You're also wrong AGAIN about how iOS handles multitasking. You could have every single app page filled, and launch every single app, and you would not notice a performance hit. Apple doesn't use a persistent "swap" partition to manage these apps. It's the apps themselves that handle the multitasking, and they're not allowed to perform any actions outside of the given multitasking APIs.

    Please please PLEASE stop with the misinformation.
    07-04-12 07:04 AM
  25. polytope's Avatar
    Hi there, I'm an HCI specialist. You are wrong. The gestures on the playbook are no more intuitive than the gestures on iOS. There are no real-world analogues for any of those actions, which makes them impossible to be intuitive to a new user.

    You're also wrong AGAIN about how iOS handles multitasking. You could have every single app page filled, and launch every single app, and you would not notice a performance hit. Apple doesn't use a persistent "swap" partition to manage these apps. It's the apps themselves that handle the multitasking, and they're not allowed to perform any actions outside of the given multitasking APIs.

    Please please PLEASE stop with the misinformation.
    And the gestures on OS X have real-world analogues? I can never tell the difference between bringing up Mission Control or Expose. It's totally unintuitive.

    And this is where I disagree with experts on UI. The computer is a device on its own. It should have its own special way of interaction. To me, making things like Calendar look like a physical calendar and make pages flip is totally counter-productive. There are so many ways to make a digital calendar so much more convenient to use yet Apple has gone backwards and make it difficult because of this so-called real-life analogy. And I absolutely hate those flyers that mimic page flip. If I want to flip pages, I would rather flip through a physical flyer, not one built with flash that slows me down.
    07-04-12 08:05 AM
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