08-14-12 12:19 PM
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  1. rolexconfuse's Avatar
    I own the original playbook (paid for it when it first came out). Its a nice tablet, good build, great OS, awesome navigation. I didnt complain when PIM wasnt there or was late. I knew the short comings of the tablet and gave RIM time to develop and build up the PB. Im sitting here waiting for BB10 to come down.

    Now we have a LTE version of the PB. And I have to say Im not sure what RIMs strategy is with the PB. The 16G WiFi version is selling for $199 in the US and a 32G can be had for about $250 depending on where you go. A LTE model is just going to be too expensive, an unlocked non-carrier version will go for $499 and a carrier one will probably cost 39.99-59.99 per month for data service. Im not sure about the rest of the world but 3G & LTE tablets just arent worth it with the way prices go for these things.

    If I was an average consumer looking for a tablet I dont know why I would pick the PB over an Android or Apple. The major tablet players are coming out with HD resolutions and quad-cores. RIM has a new PB with a slight .5 processor upgrade, same OS and the same resolution. Its nearest 7inch competitor is the Nexus 7 for $249 (faster processor and HD resolution). As improved as the app store is, it still isnt as robust as the Android or Apple store. In a few months RIM will have to fight not only Android, Apple but also Windows RT & 8.

    I understand most people in this forum are die hard BB fans and I am a big fan as well. I dont want them to fail and fold up. Not only is it bad for us but its also going to put a lot of good people out of work.

    We can all put on our rose tinted glasses and say BB10 will smoke our competitors but the battle isnt worn by us or in this forum. RIM needs give a reason for consumers to say hey this PB is cool, I want it other tablets. I dont see how charging $499 and LTE will do that.
    smartie88 likes this.
    08-10-12 02:26 PM
  2. AVPTI's Avatar
    the 4G PlayBook wasn't necessarily built for consumers, so I'm sure the production run was much smaller compared to the original Wifi launch.

    The 4G PlayBook is designed and made for enterprise customers.
    pcguy514 likes this.
    08-10-12 02:37 PM
  3. rolexconfuse's Avatar
    the 4G PlayBook wasn't necessarily built for consumers, so I'm sure the production run was much smaller compared to the original Wifi launch.

    The 4G PlayBook is designed and made for enterprise customers.
    I hope your right and I won't see it in best buy or in a commercial on TV.
    08-10-12 02:43 PM
  4. greatwiseone's Avatar
    I think it's more like they announced a product and then didn't want to cancel it. The LTE playbook also lets them work on the LTE stack for BB10, and so it will be another "beta" product that RIM can use as testing for BB10.

    I imagine only a small number is made and there's likely to be very little marketing push...
    08-10-12 02:53 PM
  5. rolexconfuse's Avatar
    that does make sense
    08-10-12 03:24 PM
  6. madman0141's Avatar
    I understand and agree with you OP I paid $700 for mine when it first came out and it has been difficult to hold onto hope when now you can get 3 of them for what I paid. I hope the new PlayBook is centered on the business world but at least a 64 or 128 version for the fans here would be nice. If OP feels RIM has let him down he isn't alone.
    08-10-12 06:39 PM
  7. joshua_sx1's Avatar
    "The 4G PlayBook is designed and made for enterprise customers"... that's explain the lack of marketing and worldwide promotion of this tablet for regular and mass customers... but still wondering, who told RIM that the "enterprise customer" needs tablet that has LTE capability, runs with 1.5GHZ dual-core CPU with 1GB RAM, has 32GB capacity, 7" screen (600 x 1024 pixels, ~170 PPI pixel density), 5MP back & 3MP front camera, stereo speakers and HDMI output feature?...

    It seems that RIM already made the PlayBook 4G before they realize it is supposedly for enterprise customers...
    08-10-12 10:09 PM
  8. Darlaten's Avatar
    So what exactley is it about the 4G Playbook that makes it "designed for enterprise" whereas a 4G Ipad or 4G some other tablet is "designed for consumers". I ask as I've seen people on here that the 4G Playbook, because it's 4G, is meant for Enterprise/Business use inferring that average, normal consumers are not interested in it.

    Surely it cant be for enterprise only simply because of 4G can it?
    08-10-12 11:12 PM
  9. nonayabusiness's Avatar
    I don't expect to alot of fanfare for it. I don't think its a 'consumer' or 'enterprise' thing either. I think it has more to do with a '4G'. If you need stand alone data then get the 4G/LTE. If you don't then get the original. I just hope that the device isn't carrier locked, or if it is can be unlocked as easy as the GSM BB's can.
    08-10-12 11:41 PM
  10. varunsain's Avatar
    For everyone who paid full price for the Wi-Fi PlayBook.. Please relax.. It's not that your PlayBook is dead or being ignored. The PlayBook Wi-Fi and 4G will successfully upgrade to the BB10 OS with complete functionality in all aspects.

    The device will feel and work as new, more powerful, very well optimized with a wide variety of applications. I'm sure RIM is feeling bad about not being able to give it soon enough to retain customers, but it's not like they have a choice.

    Once BB10 is launched on the PlayBook, which will be sooner than you expect, the device will be a 'New' one all over again..

    Regarding PB 4G, the pricing is absolutely justified. It's cheaper than every competition device and already upto 60% - 70% capable. Rest are very specific consumer demands which cannot be met by all providers. It's like constantly requesting BBM for iPad on Apple forums. Not going to work out.

    2 Choices now for everyone interested in the PlayBook.

    1.) Buy the PlayBook Wi-Fi or 4G now (regardless of OS), benefiting from the low selling price.
    2.) Wait till OS 10 and purchase the device at a higher price.

    PS. The PlayBook 4G being an enterprise device is complete BS.
    smartie88 likes this.
    08-10-12 11:56 PM
  11. varunsain's Avatar
    Now we have a LTE version of the PB. And I have to say I’m not sure what RIM’s strategy is with the PB. The 16G WiFi version is selling for $199 in the US and a 32G can be had for about $250 depending on where you go. A LTE model is just going to be too expensive, an unlocked non-carrier version will go for $499 and a carrier one will probably cost 39.99-59.99 per month for data service. I’m not sure about the rest of the world but 3G & LTE tablets just aren’t worth it with the way prices go for these things.
    Aren't these quoted prices 'competitive' in the tablet market? If RIM released the PlayBook at any lower price than this, they would be kidding themselves. It won't be any longer before RIM will have to shut shop.

    The PlayBook is equipped with the most advanced operating system, QNX. That fact does not change. RIM has not harnessed the potential of QNX yet, that fact also does not change. But you cannot ignore what you are getting for the price. If you go through the recent CB Tablet comparison, Here's how the 4G LTE BlackBerry PlayBook stacks up against other top LTE tablets | CrackBerry.com , you will get a real time understanding of the hardware and software advantages of the PlayBook at a lower price point.

    Regarding Data charges. Well, either pay up for 4G access on multiple devices, or stream line your work process on to your tablet avoiding high data charges on your smart phone. Here also, the BB PlayBook (Wi-Fi) will succeed post BB10 launch since BB10 smartphone will be equipped with a better Bluetooth hardware and be optimized for thorough output, which means sharing data services with BB PlayBook (Wi-Fi & BT3.0) will be an overall better experience. Not pressurizing you on data charges.

    For PlayBook 4G - If RIM is smart enough, they can reverse the roll of the tablet and let sharing be enabled through the PlayBook 4G on to your smart phone. It's a matter of time.

    Finally, you are in a WIN-WIN situation if you purchase the PlayBook, PB4G or the BB10 smartphone. Now that is what I call a strategy.

    If I was an average consumer looking for a tablet I don’t know why I would pick the PB over an Android or Apple. The major tablet players are coming out with HD resolutions and quad-cores. RIM has a new PB with a slight .5 processor upgrade, same OS and the same resolution. Its nearest 7inch competitor is the Nexus 7 for $249 (faster processor and HD resolution). As improved as the app store is, it still isn’t as robust as the Android or Apple store. In a few months RIM will have to fight not only Android, Apple but also Windows RT & 8.
    You have cleared the consumer dilemma at the very beginning. If you were an 'Average consumer'.

    Why would you pick a Quad-Core device?

    The answer lies in the unawareness of the average consumer. If you know about the Apple trend, then you will be aware that Apple is known to launch products with lower hardware specification than most competition devices, however, the users always claim a faster and a superior user experience regardless of lower specs.

    An average consumer can only do 'x' amount of activities on a device and performing those 'x' activities is the only major task for the device.

    This is the key for BB10 success. Through QNX operating system, RIM has managed to gain superior control not only over device optimization through hardware but infact entirely over the entire Core system language that today's computing system revolves around.

    In simple words, a 1.5 Ghz Dual-Core BB10 processor has already been bench-marked as the fastest browser among all existing tablets. In same breath, it is also currently the fastest real-time Multi-tasking device.

    So I ask again, what exactly is your need for a Quad-Core processor?

    Yes, there will be many devices that come and go, but the PlayBook will hold the market standard for being the most efficient in OS with complete up-to-date Hardware support and all at a reasonable selling price. All proven by Bench-marking.

    We can all put on our rose tinted glasses and say “BB10” will smoke our competitors but the battle isn’t worn by us or in this forum. RIM needs give a reason for consumers to say “hey this PB is cool, I want it” other tablets. I don’t see how charging $499 and LTE will do that.
    Well, the BB10 OS is already cool and no one here is pretending. You might choose to believe it or not, but it does not change any facts. It is advanced, App development agencies are not yet equipped to handle it, the man-power is not well educated in terms on harnessing the QNX OS and many big-name App companies are knee-deep in investments in other platforms.

    Launch of BB10, will see the light of many new job opportunities for developers who once considered their knowledge to be extinct now (professional in computer languages). This has been proven by many App developers on CB board who had long given up App development because learning new languages for Apple, Android, Etc. was not their cup of tea. But now, RIM has brought back the basics and you can see many old folks and new learners join in the game. Tablet gaming industry is beginning to see new hope with BB10 releasing complex games with low production time. Graphic artists are beginning to join in on..

    And most of all, QNX, RIM, Devs are now being connected to various industries through single approach. QNX-Car is a very good example of this approach.

    This could have only been possible by addressing the roots which BB10 is exactly doing. So yes, BB10 is cool and definitely the next-gen in computing devices and RIM is bringing that to us, at a very reasonable price. Eg. In-car infotainment + Non BB-tablet will set you back anywhere North of $1000. The PB is here to address that, at $499.

    Lastly, do not ignore the fact that for every 1 consumer that steps out of the PlayBook tablet market, there are 10 new kids who want to catch up with the action. It will be hard to see my kid purchase a tab which not me, but my father bought to use. The younger generation needs challenges and competition, TRUST ME, Ease of use is not ever going to be the priority.

    RIM hasn't thought about it, but I don't see it far when you purchase a Radio-Controlled Aircraft and the only remote they give you is a USB-OTG as a PlayBook attachment, because all you need to guide that plane is an RTOS, GPS & 4G connection. Guess who has all of those?
    Last edited by varunsain; 08-11-12 at 02:29 AM.
    08-11-12 12:45 AM
  12. PeterRei's Avatar
    @varunsain Let's hope you're right. I think the success of BB10 depends on the quality of its native apps. The core app of every professional OS is the office app. Much work to be done here.


    Sent from my BlackBerry 9790 using the CrackBerry forum app
    08-11-12 01:06 AM
  13. beavertail2's Avatar
    A dollar a day...

    The buying decision does not based on the price alone. It is largely based on needs first.

    It is a question of what functionality do you need? Do you need LTE? Do you want faster processor? Do you want storage? Do you want HDMI out for presentation and big screen entertainment?

    Based on the answer to these questions, then you can decide whether you want a LTE Playbook or not. You might not need a LTE Playbook. May be a Wi-Fi Playbook will do. Or a Galaxy Tab.

    Lack of apps is a thing of the past for the Playbook. It is old. It is no longer true. Playbook V2.0 is a totally differenet beast. It can run Android app. For example, apps I like are Maxthon browser, Osmand navigation, Adobe Connect, Cubifice, IM+ (instant messaging), Twitter, Youtube, Kobo, Free TV, music store, video store etc...

    LTE Playbook can use Wi-Fi when available. So between LTE and Wi-Fi, a 500MB plan is conceivably be enough for an average user. Bell, Rogers and Telus offers $20/month for a 500MB data plan (Share plan is $10/month if it suits you). LTE Playbook is $350. Over three years the cost is $10/month. So a total of $30/month is the total cost of ownership for the average user, or $1/day.

    Do not tell me, bashers, nobody will buy the LTE Playbook, because there are other tablets available. As I will never tell you that other tablet will not make any sale because of the Playbook.

    LTE Playbook provides a choice, a very competitive choice. It might even pull in some BB10 future sale, as the dynamic dual gives additional bonus features.
    08-12-12 08:18 PM
  14. mikeo007's Avatar
    SNIP
    SNIP
    Wow, you sure know a lot of "facts" about an unreleased, still in-production operating system.
    Last edited by mikeo007; 08-12-12 at 08:30 PM.
    08-12-12 08:28 PM
  15. Bla1ze's Avatar
    I don't expect to alot of fanfare for it. I don't think its a 'consumer' or 'enterprise' thing either. I think it has more to do with a '4G'. If you need stand alone data then get the 4G/LTE. If you don't then get the original. I just hope that the device isn't carrier locked, or if it is can be unlocked as easy as the GSM BB's can.
    It can be unlocked, in fact.. mine was unlocked out of the box..but mine came direct from RIM so unsure if all come unlocked or it's just because it came from RIM. Either way, it's built for Rogers but took a TELUS SIM no questions asked. However, that said.. unlock codes can be generated for them should they be locked.
    08-12-12 08:31 PM
  16. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    This is a very low-key launch. Bell is showing it on its website, but not featuring it.

    As has been mentioned elsewhere, the 4G Playbook isn't being released with any strong expectations for retail sales. This is RIM's first LTE device, and it gives them a chance to get some real-world customer experience.
    08-12-12 08:32 PM
  17. r0v3rT3N's Avatar
    Compared to a lot of other LTE tablets the PlayBook is cheap.
    Bla1ze, goku_vegeta and sagec like this.
    08-12-12 08:36 PM
  18. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Compared to a lot of other LTE tablets the PlayBook is cheap.
    When it comes to "carrier-offered" tablets, that's a fact.

    http://www.rogers.com/web/link/wirel...+11+4294935552
    http://www.bell.ca/Mobility/Products...Galaxy_Tab_LTE
    http://www.telusmobility.com/en/NS/s...te/index.shtml

    The U.S. has some that are on par though for refurbished units and a couple new ones like the XYBOARD.
    r0v3rT3N likes this.
    08-12-12 09:13 PM
  19. smartie88's Avatar

    Regarding PB 4G, the pricing is absolutely justified. It's cheaper than every competition device
    I agreed with you that 4G for enterprise is BS.

    but for whether price is justified, you also can see it from another point of view.

    IPAD wifi 32g $ 619, 32g with 3G $749, difference=749-619=130.

    PB 32g 250, 250+130=380, so if they sell 399,might be justified. but 549,not sure.
    08-12-12 09:32 PM
  20. diegonei's Avatar
    I agreed with you that 4G for enterprise is BS.

    but for whether price is justified, you also can see it from another point of view.

    IPAD wifi 32g $ 619, 32g with 3G $749, difference=749-619=130.

    PB 32g 250, 250+130=380, so if they sell 399,might be justified. but 549,not sure.
    Keep in mind that they are selling the 4G on contracts, so the price is probably around that, if not cheaper.
    08-12-12 10:21 PM
  21. mikeo007's Avatar
    Keep in mind that they are selling the 4G on contracts, so the price is probably around that, if not cheaper.
    Comparing contract price to outright purchase price isn't a legitimate comparison. On Bell, the only other tablet on contract is the Galaxy Tab for $199. Compared to the Playbook at $349 makes the PB look like a pretty poor value, even on contract.
    08-12-12 10:51 PM
  22. varunsain's Avatar
    It can be unlocked, in fact.. mine was unlocked out of the box..but mine came direct from RIM so unsure if all come unlocked or it's just because it came from RIM. Either way, it's built for Rogers but took a TELUS SIM no questions asked. However, that said.. unlock codes can be generated for them should they be locked.
    bbin.in is giving free unlock codes for Indians provided that we manage to get hold of a PB 4G! Their retail for worldwide unlock code is also reasonable..

    Wow, you sure know a lot of "facts" about an unreleased, still in-production operating system.
    I can give you released documents to whatever I said.. I'm not making up anything.. Think about OS10 something like electric vehicles.. Not mainstream but getting there..

    And do not forget but RIM has OS7.. so it's just a matter of time to shift all OS7 functions to BB10 in OS10 format.. Doesn't require much genius to figure that out..

    IPAD wifi 32g $ 619, 32g with 3G $749, difference=749-619=130.

    PB 32g 250, 250+130=380, so if they sell 399,might be justified. but 549,not sure.
    Look,
    iPad 32 wifi $619.. PlayBook 32 499 = 619 - 499 = $120.. (regardless pb is now 250)
    iPad 32 4g $749.. Playbook 4g 549 = 749 - 549 = $200..

    So you see that RIM is giving a higher difference on their new model.

    Comparing contract price to outright purchase price isn't a legitimate comparison. On Bell, the only other tablet on contract is the Galaxy Tab for $199. Compared to the Playbook at $349 makes the PB look like a pretty poor value, even on contract.
    No contract available for me.. and many many mannyyyy of RIM customers..
    08-13-12 12:23 AM
  23. IqWaN's Avatar
    i hope to get the pb 4g lte... but i dont know when they will launch it in the middle east...
    08-13-12 06:59 AM
  24. zzbsb's Avatar
    Price is too high IMHO. I would go with the Samsung 8.9" which is $150 cheaper on a 3 year plan if I need a 4G tablet. But like others have said, RIM probably doesn't expect any good sale on it, just to test for the BB10.
    08-13-12 07:07 AM
  25. mikeo007's Avatar
    I can give you released documents to whatever I said.. I'm not making up anything.. Think about OS10 something like electric vehicles.. Not mainstream but getting there..

    And do not forget but RIM has OS7.. so it's just a matter of time to shift all OS7 functions to BB10 in OS10 format.. Doesn't require much genius to figure that out..
    Ok, I'll bite. I don't usually do these huge quote/rebuttal posts, but in this case I'll make an exception. You posts in this thread have a lot of conjecture and flat out fallacies.

    Disclaimer: I am a developer, own a Playbook, iPad and android device. I have a vested interest in all 3 platforms and while my criticisms may seem harsh at times, it's only because I want the best for the platform.

    The PlayBook Wi-Fi and 4G will successfully upgrade to the BB10 OS with complete functionality in all aspects.
    Proof of this please. RIM promised BB10 on the Playbook, they didn't say anything about it being full featured. Case in point, Apple hardly ever includes all new iOS features on older devices.

    The device will feel and work as new, more powerful, very well optimized with a wide variety of applications.
    Proof of this please.

    Once BB10 is launched on the PlayBook, which will be sooner than you expect, the device will be a 'New' one all over again.
    How soon is sooner than I expect? How are you privy to release information that isn't publicly available beyond the leaked roadmap?

    It's ... already upto 60% - 70% capable
    Completely arbitrary and false percentage. "Capability" isn't even something you can measure with a percentage.

    The PlayBook is equipped with the most advanced operating system, QNX. That fact does not change.
    Proof please (no marketing documents, only 3rd party evidence please)
    RIM has not harnessed the potential of QNX yet, that fact also does not change.
    Proof? The QNX microkernel is 100% implemented in PB OS, what potential is there left to harness? They can certainly optimize the OS layers, but the kernel is already being harnessed.

    BB10 smartphone will be equipped with a better Bluetooth hardware and be optimized for thorough output
    Proof of this "better Bluetooth hardware" please

    Apple is known to launch products with lower hardware specification than most competition devices, however, the users always claim a faster and a superior user experience regardless of lower specs.
    What the users claim tends to be true in this case. Also, can you show me some recent apple products with hardware specs that are below most of the competition please?

    This is the key for BB10 success. Through QNX operating system, RIM has managed to gain superior control not only over device optimization through hardware but infact entirely over the entire Core system language that today's computing system revolves around.
    This is just gibberish. What is "the entire Core system language that today's computing system revolves around."

    In simple words, a 1.5 Ghz Dual-Core BB10 processor has already been bench-marked as the fastest browser among all existing tablets.
    Wrong. A 1.5 ghz dual core Playbook has been benchmarked to have the fastest JavaScript rendering speeds in a synthetic benchmark (sunspider) of any current mobile device.

    In same breath, it is also currently the fastest real-time Multi-tasking device.
    Proof please? Again, no marketing material from RIM or QNX, only 3rd party evidence can prove this.

    PlayBook will hold the market standard for being the most efficient in OS with complete up-to-date Hardware support and all at a reasonable selling price. All proven by Bench-marking.
    What benchmarks prove this exactly?

    App development agencies are not yet equipped to handle it, the man-power is not well educated in terms on harnessing the QNX OS and many big-name App companies are knee-deep in investments in other platforms.
    The knowledge is all out there. Anyone wanting to develop for PBOS has all the information they currently need. Also, what does being "knee-deep" in other platforms mean? They have test devices available for other platforms?

    Launch of BB10, will see the light of many new job opportunities for developers who once considered their knowledge to be extinct now (professional in computer languages). This has been proven by many App developers on CB board who had long given up App development because learning new languages for Apple, Android, Etc. was not their cup of tea. But now, RIM has brought back the basics and you can see many old folks and new learners join in the game. Tablet gaming industry is beginning to see new hope with BB10 releasing complex games with low production time.
    Please show me one of these "proof" posts. The "new languages" for Apple and Android development are identical to, or very similar to several of the languages that are used for Blackberry programming. Also, please show me a complex game with low production time made possible by BB10. This whole statement is just bull.

    In-car infotainment + Non BB-tablet will set you back anywhere North of $1000. The PB is here to address that, at $499.
    Are you saying that the PB will somehow be an entire in-car entertainment system?

    TRUST ME, Ease of use is not ever going to be the priority.
    Trust me, you're wrong.

    RIM hasn't thought about it, but I don't see it far when you purchase a Radio-Controlled Aircraft and the only remote they give you is a USB-OTG as a PlayBook attachment, because all you need to guide that plane is an RTOS, GPS & 4G connection. Guess who has all of those?
    Good luck getting the response time necessary to control a precision aircraft using 4G communication. Also, why is an RTOS necessary for this?
    08-13-12 09:49 AM
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