02-18-13 10:24 AM
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tools
  1. rkennedy01's Avatar
    I strongly doubt your claims of experience with "every" Android version because of your demonstrated ignorance of pretty basic capabilities like, for instance, Skype and bluetooth.
    And the Troll returns. Was wondering how long it would take before you'd rear your ugly head again. Now I know!

    FACT: I never claimed experience with "every" Android version (read my post), just those that I've tried personally, which include 3.1 and 3.2 (on a Galaxy Tab 10.1), 4.03 (Stock, Acerlicious and FLEXREAPER), 4.1 (CM10 - various builds), and now 4.1.2 (AOKP JB Milestone 1) - all on a series of Acer Iconia Tab A200s.

    So, in your apparently vast experience with Android tablets, which versions have you tried? And did you ever volunteer to help the THOUSANDS of Android users who can't seem to get Bluetooth working with Skype either? Oh, and BTW, it got WORSE with version 3.xx.

    You really should visit those Skype support forums I linked to before - these people need your help! Work those miracles, Trollboy!

    RCK
    11-28-12 02:29 AM
  2. Wongsky's Avatar
    Different strokes. I find that, after "exiting" (back button to desktop or switching via the recent task list) several different apps repeatedly over the period of a few hours or perhaps a day, I have to hit "Kill All" in ESTM to clear-up the crud. Otherwise, the UI starts to "stutter" and things take a long time to load,
    I do exactly the same on my 2 Android tabs - admittedly, they both run stock ROMs - 2.2 / Froyo, but apart from trimming the running task list, run very well.

    It can and does make a clear and noticable change to the performance of the tab, to trim what's running using ES Task Manager, also with things that are auto started.

    I have run tried some ICS ROMs on my Android tablets, but as they are relatively RAM challenged at 512M, seem to run a lot worse (ICS seems to have more overhead than the stock 2.2 version) - which, although run only briefly, upped the ante in terms of needing to use ES Task Manager to keep the running processes in reasonable bounds to keep things running at a reasonable pace. Haven't tried any JB ROMs on them, but doubt I will, now, just want stability and performance from them.
    No question the PB browser crashes from time to time - but when it does go south, it rarely (if ever) takes the whole OS with it, which is more than I can say for every version of Android I've tried from 3.1 up through 4.1.2. Believe me, I wish it were otherwise. I've got to support Android across an entire organization, and I sure wish I could just standardize on one reliable build - with a fully-functional Chrome as the web browser - and be done with it.
    In complete agreement, there - lots talk about Android being performant, and being best left to it's own devices in terms of managing processes - well that's not my experience - I find it does benefit from keeping on top of it - and I don't run lots of apps on my Android tablets - far from it - I maintain a small number of apps to cover the features I want, and very rarely install any additional apps.

    In contrast, the PlayBook seems more performant, and easier to manage in terms of what's running. I like the widgest available on homescreens on Android - but maybe the absence of that sort of thing is what keeps the PlayBook as responsive and simple for what it does.
    11-28-12 03:36 AM
  3. notfanboy's Avatar
    And the Troll returns. Was wondering how long it would take before you'd rear your ugly head again. Now I know!

    FACT: I never claimed experience with "every" Android version (read my post), just those that I've tried personally, which include 3.1 and 3.2 (on a Galaxy Tab 10.1), 4.03 (Stock, Acerlicious and FLEXREAPER), 4.1 (CM10 - various builds), and now 4.1.2 (AOKP JB Milestone 1) - all on a series of Acer Iconia Tab A200s.

    So, in your apparently vast experience with Android tablets, which versions have you tried? And did you ever volunteer to help the THOUSANDS of Android users who can't seem to get Bluetooth working with Skype either? Oh, and BTW, it got WORSE with version 3.xx.

    You really should visit those Skype support forums I linked to before - these people need your help! Work those miracles, Trollboy!

    RCK
    Hey rkennedy, there really is no need for the name calling and personal attacks. It does nothing but lower the level of discourse.

    "The troll returns?" For the record, I never left. Actually it was you who disappeared from the scene after I posted the video that you had asked for: Using Bluetooth with Skype - the "miracle" video. You never replied after having been very active in the thread, and the silence was deafening (but TBH rather refreshing). Anyway I'm relinking you to the "miracle" video so you can't pretend to not have seen it. Please feel free to link the video to the Skype support forums which I've never visited BTW, and from where much of your experience on this matter appears to have come from.

    Here's one of your problems, rkennedy. You make generalizations about Android with experience on an dead-in-the-market Acer Iconia Tab that you keep trying to revivify with a endless series of custom ROMs: basically a zombie tablet. You should get with the times. You are unaware and genuinely surprised at the "miracles" that can be accomplished by current devices like the Galaxy S3.
    11-28-12 05:56 AM
  4. Xopher's Avatar
    I am curious. Which tablet do you use most of the time and what do you use each tablet for ?
    I use both quote a bit.

    The PlayBook spends a lot of time in the desk cradle, streaming Pandora to the Bluetooth Stereo Gateway. I also pick it up first when BBMs come in to my 9700. About the only time I pick up my Bold now is for BBM Groups.

    Anytime I'm heading out somewhere, the PlayBook goes with me. Having it bridged to my Bold means I have data access on the PlayBook without having to search for someplace with a WiFi hotspot. I can check the forums, read a book (usually in the Kindle app), and browse the web during lunch.

    The PlayBook also gets connected to the TV quite often. I'll stream Amazon Prime videos from it. I have a Bluetooth keyboard so I can control it from the couch. It makes for a nice setup.

    As much as I consume information on the PlayBook, the Nexus 7 gets used for creating. Tapatalk gets used more on the N7 mostly due to being able to use a keyboard with swipe. I make too many typing mistakes on the PlayBook, since Android apps don't have access to the predictive text capabilities (looks like BB10 brings predictive text to Android player). So the N7 gets used instead.

    I take a lot of notes, and usually do that on the N7 as well. Again, it's about the keyboard. I also chat with a lot of people on GTalk, which works better on the N7. I also have widgets for my calendar, tasks, and weather all on my home screen. Without having to open apps, I have access to all that information. I tend to grab the N7 first for appointments and such, since it's pretty easy to see things right away. I also have apps that help me run my business, including accepting credit cards.

    I write apps and games for both platforms, so both are used for testing. I definitely like writing for PlayBook and BB10 more. The development tools are much better, and there isn't the fragmentation that confounds Android. I was somewhat used to that when writing apps for BBOS, but Android takes it to another level.

    They both get used. They get used for different things. They get used daily. I'm really interested in seeing BB10 on the PlayBook and how that might change things.
    notfanboy and Techno-Emigre like this.
    11-28-12 07:17 AM
  5. rkennedy01's Avatar
    You make generalizations about Android with experience on an dead-in-the-market Acer Iconia Tab that you keep trying to revivify with a endless series of custom ROMs: basically a zombie tablet. You should get with the times. You are unaware and genuinely surprised at the "miracles" that can be accomplished by current devices like the Galaxy S3.
    So THAT's why I keep trying all of these different ROMs! And here I was thinking it was because stock Android sucks on most devices (it really does). I'd better go tell all of those SGS3 users out there who keep downloading CM10, AOKP and other custom firmware that they've got it all wrong. They don't need a better Android build. They're perfect the way they are because "notafanboy" says so!

    Now crawl back down to your mother's basement before she catches you on the couch surfing "furry" porn and trolling usenet for underage photos.

    RCK
    11-28-12 07:19 AM
  6. notfanboy's Avatar
    So THAT's why I keep trying all of these different ROMs! And here I was thinking it was because stock Android sucks on most devices (it really does). I'd better go tell all of those SGS3 users out there who keep downloading CM10, AOKP and other custom firmware that they've got it all wrong. They don't need a better Android build. They're perfect the way they are because "notafanboy" says so!

    Now crawl back down to your mother's basement before she catches you on the couch surfing "furry" porn and trolling usenet for underage photos.

    RCK
    Quoting for posterity.

    Again with the personal attacks. Are you not the least bit embarrassed, as a middle aged man with grown up children, to be behaving in such a manner?

    You're just going to keep pretending to ignore the miracle video, aren't you?
    11-28-12 07:31 AM
  7. notfanboy's Avatar
    I write apps and games for both platforms, so both are used for testing. I definitely like writing for PlayBook and BB10 more. The development tools are much better, and there isn't the fragmentation that confounds Android. I was somewhat used to that when writing apps for BBOS, but Android takes it to another level.
    Can you elaborate on how the development tools are better? How would you compare the IDE support (i.e. Eclipse)? Documentation? Open source libraries, example code, and community support? I dabble in iOS and Android development but know next to nothing about BB10 development so I'm genuinely curious.
    11-28-12 07:43 AM
  8. Wongsky's Avatar
    Here's one of your problems, rkennedy. You make generalizations about Android with experience on an dead-in-the-market Acer Iconia Tab that you keep trying to revivify with a endless series of custom ROMs: basically a zombie tablet. You should get with the times. You are unaware and genuinely surprised at the "miracles" that can be accomplished by current devices like the Galaxy S3.
    I disagree with that paragraph - you can talk about "dead-in-the-market" devices if you like, but I reject such folly.

    Whilst I like my gadgets, I also like longevity. I don't want a device that's obsolete within months of getting it - I want some value out of it, until I've had reasonable value from it.

    I first bought my own tablet a bit over a year ago - a "budget" Android tablet, running 2.2 then, and now. I now have 2 of these (ie 2 of the same tablets). Yes, it's running an aging version of Android (2.2 / Froyo) - although I've tried several custom roms, from gingerbread, through honeycomb, through ICS, and back to stock (2.2) for the majority of the time I've owned it - because it's stable and fast, does what I want, even if more modern ROMs look slicker.

    I bought a PlayBook, speculatively, a couple of months back, because they were being sold cheaply in the UK (129 / UK pounds for the 64G version). There's also a HP TouchPad in the household, bought a month or two before I bought my own Android tablet(s) - and that's still running WebOS.

    So peoples experiences of using Android, may not necessarily be hugely focused on the current or recent releases - for various reasons - doesn't make them unfair criticisms. In general, I like Android as an OS - but then I'm a techie by profession, so don't mind tinkering with them to see what other versions have to offer.

    My personal take is this - many are taken in by look and feel - swishier new interface tweaks that claim usability benefits, but are little more than eye candy, a lot of the time. That's apparent from many forums dedicated to tablet devices - many want the latest and "greatest" version, whether it actually has benefits, or not - because it looks funky, people want it. Over time I've become a bit jaded by the churn - I want certain key features, and them performed well, I want the device to feel fairly snappy, and I want it to be stable and robust. For me, function comes before form. That carries through to my views on the PlayBook, really - it largely (for me at least) covers the core functions I want, reasonably well - not perfectly, not without needing some improvement - but all the same works and is pretty stable and snappy.

    Yes, sometimes I prefer the way my Android tab has a few homescreens, and big widgets on some that give me info on news and weather. So that's not the way my PlayBook works - I shrug, as it's not that key and although a nice to have, I'd rather it did basics well and be stable, than look slick and funky.

    And that goes right back to what some will strongly opine on how to get Android working well on a tablet. Some will tell you task management is best left to the OS, and that it does a better job - my year of using one day-in, day-out, for what I use it for, tells me that's idealism. I don't run any startup managers, but I do regularly, manually, trim the running tasks on my Android tablets - and I get benefit from doing so, and know when I haven't and could do with doing so, because of how it (/ they) respond. And that's not 'cos I've got some expansive smorgasbord of apps installed - I don't - quite a modest amount, if I do say so myself - just that the rhetoric that the OS knows best, is quite assumptive, and quite flawed in my experience.
    notfanboy likes this.
    11-28-12 08:02 AM
  9. Wongsky's Avatar
    Personally, I think I'd like to see reviews of the Kindle Fire HD in the mix with comparisons with the Nexus 7 and the PlayBook - anyone got one / had one, to contribute?
    11-28-12 08:05 AM
  10. reeneebob's Avatar
    I do exactly the same on my 2 Android tabs - admittedly, they both run stock ROMs - 2.2 / Froyo, but apart from trimming the running task list, run very well.

    It can and does make a clear and noticable change to the performance of the tab, to trim what's running using ES Task Manager, also with things that are auto started.

    I have run tried some ICS ROMs on my Android tablets, but as they are relatively RAM challenged at 512M, seem to run a lot worse (ICS seems to have more overhead than the stock 2.2 version) - which, although run only briefly, upped the ante in terms of needing to use ES Task Manager to keep the running processes in reasonable bounds to keep things running at a reasonable pace. Haven't tried any JB ROMs on them, but doubt I will, now, just want stability and performance from them.

    In complete agreement, there - lots talk about Android being performant, and being best left to it's own devices in terms of managing processes - well that's not my experience - I find it does benefit from keeping on top of it - and I don't run lots of apps on my Android tablets - far from it - I maintain a small number of apps to cover the features I want, and very rarely install any additional apps.
    Android hasn't needed task killer since 2.2/2.3. In fact Google specifically states that running a task killer since gingerbread is actually worse for efficiency and has a negative impact on the OS performance. Samsung still includes the ability in 4.0/1 but I have only used it to kill touchwiz when I use an alternate launcher and that's only because I'm too impatient to wait for the OS to kill it on its own.

    The last thing anyone should be doing is touting task killers on ICS or JB. And if a developer includes one in a ROM that only tells me they aren't good at coding and need it to cover their mistakes. I know you weren't the one who insinuated that developers know more than Google, that was another poster.

    I've got blisters on me fingers!!! from using Tapatalk 2
    11-28-12 08:26 AM
  11. reeneebob's Avatar
    So THAT's why I keep trying all of these different ROMs! And here I was thinking it was because stock Android sucks on most devices (it really does). I'd better go tell all of those SGS3 users out there who keep downloading CM10, AOKP and other custom firmware that they've got it all wrong. They don't need a better Android build. They're perfect the way they are because "notafanboy" says so!

    Now crawl back down to your mother's basement before she catches you on the couch surfing "furry" porn and trolling usenet for underage photos.

    RCK
    Enough. The only one who resorted to personal attacks was you. And yet you call him the troll?

    I've got blisters on me fingers!!! from using Tapatalk 2
    notfanboy likes this.
    11-28-12 08:29 AM
  12. notfanboy's Avatar
    Wongsky, I agree with most of your post. I too expect my gadgets to last for a while, although we may differ on how long that is. I would like to upgrade every year, but in practice my mean time between upgrades is between 2 and 3 years. I also only keep one device in each niche. Currently for computers it is one desktop (Win 8), one server (Linux), one laptop (Macbook), one tablet (iPad), and one phone (SG3). I was tempted to get the $132 PB and the Nexus 7 but I'm sticking with my one per niche rule. After 2-3 years, my mobile devices get replaced and turn into paperweights or dust collectors.
    11-28-12 08:32 AM
  13. Wongsky's Avatar
    Android hasn't needed task killer since 2.2/2.3. In fact Google specifically states that running a task killer since gingerbread is actually worse for efficiency and has a negative impact on the OS performance. Samsung still includes the ability in 4.0/1 but I have only used it to kill touchwiz when I use an alternate launcher and that's only because I'm too impatient to wait for the OS to kill it on its own.
    Well I certainly find it pretty much necessary on 2.2.

    I have run gingerbread, honeycomb, and ICS - but all I'll say is that those concepts of best practice, maybe one thing, on a tablet or phone that has had a specific release designed for it. Most that I've seen play / install with other versions on their devices, tend to do so by using cfw. edit: and meant to say - where this has bearing - and specifically in the example of the tablet I own, is that as it only had a modest amount of RAM, running ICS onward ROMs seems to highlight the additional burden of OS demands. Free memory goes down considerably, and whilst the interface is responsive enough whilst nothing (much) is running, as soon as some background processes start up, or you have a couple of apps open, things start to slooooww considerably. Point being, newer software, is often run on devices that aren't as new.

    Where my Android tablets are concerned, both run 2.2 ROMs (stock ROM for them, albeit rooted, and with google play installed). They are both identical models, and were bought a bit over a year ago. Although not cutting edge, they are Tegra 2 devices, their most limiting attribute being only having a modest 512M of RAM. I personally find that on the stock ROM (2.2) that performance is perfectly acceptable and zippy, so long as you keep an eye on all the spawned process - and kill off superfluous ones. I don't do that by some automated product, I simply use ES Task Manager.

    And I can certainly tell the difference when a load of processes have started up in background - it mainly affects web browsing with multiple tabs open. It's definite observable, not in my imagination, and doesn't seem to sort itself out if left to it's own devices - you just get reduced performance because of the additional overhead of a bunch of additional process running for things that you're not actively using / running at that time.
    11-28-12 09:03 AM
  14. o4liberty's Avatar
    I think we will see more from the current playbook after BB10 is released. I fell rim knows not to abandon the playbook at this time it would off too many owners. Let's just hope BB10 is a winner!

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk
    Gooseberry Falls likes this.
    11-28-12 09:52 AM
  15. lorax1284's Avatar
    I have, um, I think 5 android devices... Nexus 7, Asus Transformer Infinity, Samsung Nexus S, Dell Streak 7, Samsung Galaxy Tab 7 Plus... I use the Transformer as my "second screen" in the living room, the "Nexus 7" on the toilet or just goofing on "stock android", the Galaxy 7 when I'm on the go (I have a nice book-cover Samsung case for it that is very nice, but the proprietary charging port / power supply is maddening... it doesn't seem to charge with standard USB power sources, seems to need it's OWN charger). I rarely use the Nexus S any more, but it is interesting to keep around for its standard Android implementation in the phone form-factor. It still performs pretty well, so I could recommend the Nexus S if you can get one cheap and just want a simple Android phone. As I type this, I booted it up for the first time in a couple weeks, and was informed that the Jellybean 4.2 update is available.

    The Dell Streak is forlorn, lying on a table in the corner, probably not even charged... I put one of the ICS Roms on it, and it's fine for basic stuff (Tegra 2 is still decent) but that 800 x 480 7" screen just doesn't hold up. But it's got the Gorilla Glass and has been dropped a few times, takes a beating for sure... and has a full size SD Card slot, so it has its merits. If you can pick one up for $99 it's not a bad option. It would probably be GREAT for use as a GPS with local data.

    The OP mentioned build quality, but here's Nexus 7's dirty little secret: the glass is NOT "Gorilla GlassTM"... it is some other cheap kind of Corning glass that maybe was the precursor to Gorilla Glass and is NOT NEARLY as scratch resistant as Gorilla Glass. Days after getting my Nexus 7 (and treating it with the same utilitarian contempt that I treat all devices) it had multiple long lengthwise 3 mm wide scratches on the glass. Not smudges or smears, actual scratches. You can only see them when the angle is "just right" with ambient light, but it's outrageous that any modern high-profile touch-screen device would be that 'brittle'. None (NONE) of my other devices have that kind of damage, and I think you MUST get a screen guard if you're going to have an N7.

    I carry my PlayBook w/ Bluetooth keyboard and BlackBerry Torch 9810 with me everywhere I go, except when I am out for a bike ride in which case I only carry my Torch... which should tell you that I "play with" Android devices and "use" my RIM devices.... and I know I'm not alone, so maybe this will help you understand the RAGE I feel when analysts dismiss RIM's offerings so casually, without stopping to think that maybe, just maybe, there are different strokes for different folks.
    Last edited by lorax1284; 11-28-12 at 11:44 AM.
    alan510 likes this.
    11-28-12 11:31 AM
  16. Xopher's Avatar
    Can you elaborate on how the development tools are better? How would you compare the IDE support (i.e. Eclipse)? Documentation? Open source libraries, example code, and community support? I dabble in iOS and Android development but know next to nothing about BB10 development so I'm genuinely curious.
    On mobile platforms, I started with Java/BBOS. On the BlackBerry side, you would have to work with the different resolutions (Curve, Bold, Torch, and Style all have different resolutions). When 5.0 came out, it added SQL support. You could program apps for 5.0, but then have to change functions for older devices. 6.0 added more functionality, different camera APIs, and additional screen sizes. BB7 add higher resolution screens. These days, as long as you support BB6 and BB7, there isn't as much fragmentation as two years ago.

    On Android, you have the ability to use Java and C++. Depending on the API level, you can support pretty much all devices, but you have to account for lots of different resolutions, tablets and phones, devices with keyboards, full touch, ARM architecture as well as x86. You have to make sure your manifest its set up properly so that Google Play will make it available to the proper devices, plus the emulators are an interesting beast to set up.

    With BB10, native code is C++, with Qt elements. I've even seen apps written with just Qt and JavaScript and not even a line of C++. The simulators are virtual machines, and you can even debug over WiFi to devices. Flash developers can code in ActionScript and have AIR apps run directly on the PlayBook. There are even other tools that can be used for BB10 development, such as WebWorks.

    The game I wrote, RuneCryption, was actually written in HaXe NME. The compiler built a native binary for PlayBook and BB10. I pulled the project over to Eclipse and made a few modifications to run on Android. If I had a Mac, I could compile it for iOS. The Flash version on my website came from the same code.

    I think that the new tools that RIM is using for BB10 really opens the door to more possibilities. iOS developers have been able to port apps and games over with just a few days work. It really is a different market from two years ago.
    11-28-12 11:37 AM
  17. notfanboy's Avatar
    Thanks for the detailed answer. I have followup question on a couple of things.
    The game I wrote, RuneCryption, was actually written in HaXe NME. The compiler built a native binary for PlayBook and BB10. I pulled the project over to Eclipse and made a few modifications to run on Android. If I had a Mac, I could compile it for iOS. The Flash version on my website came from the same code.
    How would you accomplish this compiling for iOS? Wouldn't you have to rewrite it first in Objective-C and change your api calls to use the Cocoa Touch framework?

    Edit: Looked up Haxe and I can answer my own question. Your source can be compiled for multiple platforms.

    I think that the new tools that RIM is using for BB10 really opens the door to more possibilities. iOS developers have been able to port apps and games over with just a few days work. It really is a different market from two years ago.
    I've heard these claims of "a few days work" before and I've always wanted to ask someone how this is possible. I'm asking about the regular iOS apps written in Objective-C, not apps written in HaXe. Every app uses at least the UIKit framework and dozens more. How do you rewrite this into something runnable under the BB10 frameworks? Isn't "a few days" work somewhat of an exaggeration?
    Last edited by notafanboy; 11-28-12 at 12:03 PM.
    11-28-12 11:51 AM
  18. Emu the Foo's Avatar
    Bb10 I believe will be coming to the playbook correct? If so then that's pretty future proof right there. More so than android devices
    11-28-12 02:26 PM
  19. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Bb10 I believe will be coming to the playbook correct? If so then that's pretty future proof right there. More so than android devices
    Depends on how one looks at it. The one customer is at the mercy of the manufacturer, no matter what. The other could upgrade the device (mostly) if he/she really wanted to.
    11-28-12 02:37 PM
  20. reeneebob's Avatar
    Well I certainly find it pretty much necessary on 2.2.

    I have run gingerbread, honeycomb, and ICS - but all I'll say is that those concepts of best practice, maybe one thing, on a tablet or phone that has had a specific release designed for it. Most that I've seen play / install with other versions on their devices, tend to do so by using cfw. edit: and meant to say - where this has bearing - and specifically in the example of the tablet I own, is that as it only had a modest amount of RAM, running ICS onward ROMs seems to highlight the additional burden of OS demands. Free memory goes down considerably, and whilst the interface is responsive enough whilst nothing (much) is running, as soon as some background processes start up, or you have a couple of apps open, things start to slooooww considerably. Point being, newer software, is often run on devices that aren't as new.

    Where my Android tablets are concerned, both run 2.2 ROMs (stock ROM for them, albeit rooted, and with google play installed). They are both identical models, and were bought a bit over a year ago. Although not cutting edge, they are Tegra 2 devices, their most limiting attribute being only having a modest 512M of RAM. I personally find that on the stock ROM (2.2) that performance is perfectly acceptable and zippy, so long as you keep an eye on all the spawned process - and kill off superfluous ones. I don't do that by some automated product, I simply use ES Task Manager.

    And I can certainly tell the difference when a load of processes have started up in background - it mainly affects web browsing with multiple tabs open. It's definite observable, not in my imagination, and doesn't seem to sort itself out if left to it's own devices - you just get reduced performance because of the additional overhead of a bunch of additional process running for things that you're not actively using / running at that time.
    The recommended not using them in 2.2 but you are right, at times it was necessary. However from 2.3 on, and especially in 4.0, they are actually pretty strongly refuted.

    I've got blisters on me fingers!!! from using Tapatalk 2
    11-28-12 03:44 PM
  21. christenmartin's Avatar
    That is true that the price point that the playbook originally came out at was much higher but that goes to the ops point about price versus quality. Also. when comparing the two, the playbook is 2 years old. Although I'm not seeing big leaps and bounds with tablets. I've played around with the latest generation, the seem a little quicker but no huge innovations.
    11-28-12 04:29 PM
  22. Xopher's Avatar
    I've heard these claims of "a few days work" before and I've always wanted to ask someone how this is possible. I'm asking about the regular iOS apps written in Objective-C, not apps written in HaXe. Every app uses at least the UIKit framework and dozens more. How do you rewrite this into something runnable under the BB10 frameworks? Isn't "a few days" work somewhat of an exaggeration?
    http://devblog.blackberry.com/2012/0...s-to-playbook/

    Feel free to PM me if you would like to talk more about development.
    11-28-12 04:39 PM
  23. bitek's Avatar
    I use both quote a bit.

    The PlayBook spends a lot of time in the desk cradle, streaming Pandora to the Bluetooth Stereo Gateway. I also pick it up first when BBMs come in to my 9700. About the only time I pick up my Bold now is for BBM Groups.

    Anytime I'm heading out somewhere, the PlayBook goes with me. Having it bridged to my Bold means I have data access on the PlayBook without having to search for someplace with a WiFi hotspot. I can check the forums, read a book (usually in the Kindle app), and browse the web during lunch.

    The PlayBook also gets connected to the TV quite often. I'll stream Amazon Prime videos from it. I have a Bluetooth keyboard so I can control it from the couch. It makes for a nice setup.

    As much as I consume information on the PlayBook, the Nexus 7 gets used for creating. Tapatalk gets used more on the N7 mostly due to being able to use a keyboard with swipe. I make too many typing mistakes on the PlayBook, since Android apps don't have access to the predictive text capabilities (looks like BB10 brings predictive text to Android player). So the N7 gets used instead.

    I take a lot of notes, and usually do that on the N7 as well. Again, it's about the keyboard. I also chat with a lot of people on GTalk, which works better on the N7. I also have widgets for my calendar, tasks, and weather all on my home screen. Without having to open apps, I have access to all that information. I tend to grab the N7 first for appointments and such, since it's pretty easy to see things right away. I also have apps that help me run my business, including accepting credit cards.

    I write apps and games for both platforms, so both are used for testing. I definitely like writing for PlayBook and BB10 more. The development tools are much better, and there isn't the fragmentation that confounds Android. I was somewhat used to that when writing apps for BBOS, but Android takes it to another level.

    They both get used. They get used for different things. They get used daily. I'm really interested in seeing BB10 on the PlayBook and how that might change things.
    I've got to give it to Nexus 7. It is very capable puppy. I was in awe yesterday when i found Samsung app that lets print directly from N7 to my network capable Samsung laser printer. I can print anything from my tablet. Documents, pictures you name it and it does well. Also Jelly Bean messaging integration with twitter,skype,facebook news apps is really something. I honestly do not know how can anyone say that Android is IOS copy cat. To be perfectly honest i never played with ios but i do not believe ios has anything like Android with messaging as it is done on Android.
    I am considering N7 3G. I think $309 is excellent price for it and for extra $10 with Rogers i can add second device to my 6GB data plan. I think it is worth it because N7 will be pretty much "wired" to the Internet 24/7. I am waiting for some review of N7 3G but I would expect that this solution is faster than tethering through the phone even if it is BB10 with LTE support.
    11-28-12 07:54 PM
  24. bk1022's Avatar
    My vote has to go to Nexus 7 even though I have yet to see one. The OTG USB port on my PlayBook broke within a year. I've spoken to RIM and the port is simply not covered under any warranty. There's little point investing even a pithily $99 on a PB if it's just going to break through normal usage.

    Anyway, the advantages people keep claiming regarding the PB are marginal at best. I don't care where the speakers are located. I'll just get a dock to listen to music and choices for Android docks are limitless. People complain about random battery drain on the PB. The user has limited control over what's going on, can't really diagnose the issue and RIM isn't competent enough to fix it. SimCity still freezes the super-awesome indestructible QNX!

    Anyway, the big problem as I see it for the PB is their horrid handling of email. You are stuck with their garbage native app. It still has garbage IMAP handling after nearly two years, and you can't make different email accounts private, so you can't really share it with the family. Bleeeaaach.
    11-28-12 10:50 PM
  25. bdegrande's Avatar
    Excellent review. I significantly prefer the PlayBook OS, I think that it is more stable and easier to use, and an important problem with Android (and I have used Android tablets since the beginning) is that the PlayBook OS can be upgraded - it has been and will be again with BB10, while quite often Android tablets either limit you to the OS they were sold with or require you to root the device to upgrade them. Also there are still very few tablet apps fro Android, it is still a better phone OS than a tablet OS.
    11-28-12 11:31 PM
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