10-04-13 10:27 PM
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  1. FF22's Avatar
    sorry but I call BS on this, I have the RT which isn't as full OS as the pro and I am 1000000X more productive on my RT than I ever was with the Playbook! also just the user interface is more smooth and robust than the Playbook, and the reason why I like the RT so much is the fact that it's sorta like a QNX OS where you have those bezel swipes and stuff! So I can't fathom your Surface PRO not being better or more productive than your Playbook or that having a FULL Windows 8 on a tablet is half interested by MS. please don't be like the other people by spreading disinformation!
    My experience with the Acer W3 (was that its number/id) was that it was not friendly as a Touch Device. Windows controls were too small or narrow so trying to use a finger was awkward. Also, running legacy programs on it was made difficult by the size of the "windows" and it does not allow much control over such legacy programs so that they work in smaller, confined windows. Again, I may not have had it long enough since it had a defective sd card slot.

    So RT allows legacy Windows programs to run? You may be right - the impression was that the RT needed specially programmed apps like other proprietary OS's like the pb, android and ipad.

    But, for the moment I am over my looking for another tablet. That could change but I'll stick with the pb. I've got apps to allow it to serve reasonably well. Yes, I would certainly have loved it to be bb10-capable so that new apps would have been available and for the improved browser. I trust rim (bb will be reserved for when they do something right) as far as I can throw Thor - not very much, in other words.
    09-01-13 11:36 PM
  2. KermEd's Avatar
    sorry but I call BS on this, I have the RT which isn't as full OS as the pro and I am 1000000X more productive on my RT than I ever was with the Playbook! also just the user interface is more smooth and robust than the Playbook, and the reason why I like the RT so much is the fact that it's sorta like a QNX OS where you have those bezel swipes and stuff! So I can't fathom your Surface PRO not being better or more productive than your Playbook or that having a FULL Windows 8 on a tablet is half interested by MS. please don't be like the other people by spreading disinformation!
    Call it what you will. I did not say my Pro tablet is less productive than my PB - obviously I switched from (what is now) an MSRP 150 tablet to a 900+ tablet for a reason.

    My opinion on W8.1 + Pro 128 is not something for you to decide for me. It has not been a smooth or pleasant experience in many cases. It does do what I need it to do (otherwise I wouldn't use it) and under performs in ways I'd like to see resolved.

    There are major bugs, especially in 8.1 (i.e. Skydrive is completely useless) which is a major issue for me (Skydrive is my 'temp' data mirror folder shared among all my PCs/laptops/tablets for development).

    The tablet is very akward in many instances such as:
    - non auto sensing api's for text entry (which should be automated as the OS registers you selected an input box)
    - very limiting behaviors such as the OSK missing major btn functionality (requiring a separate OSK)
    - weight
    - heat of tablet
    - poor build quality on some plastic components
    - caps getting stuck 'on'
    - constant browser crashes
    - the sad attempt at bringing back a start menu (by not bringing anything at all)
    - issues with apps not recognizing the touch space as proper mouse coordinates (making many apps unusable)
    - the OS falsely detecting drivers as Os8 compatible that aren't
    - very poor win store apps for 8.1 pro (FB and Twitter are worse than PB)
    - directx full screen mode crashes the entire tablet (including open gl and dosbox)
    - Problems with vmware due to the M$ virtualization
    - random BSOD DPC_watchdog errors
    - many issues with apps even m$ apps
    - i can go on and on...

    ... Yes, I know this tablet very well, this is far from 'disinformation'.

    Edited to try and tame my reply and break up the tl;dr.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    Last edited by KermEd; 09-02-13 at 01:55 AM.
    FF22 likes this.
    09-02-13 01:33 AM
  3. beman39's Avatar
    Call it what you will. I did not say my Pro tablet is less productive than my PB - obviously I switched from (what is now) an MSRP 150 tablet to a 900+ tablet for a reason.

    My opinion on W8.1 + Pro 128 is not something for you to decide for me. It has not been a smooth or pleasant experience in many cases. It does do what I need it to do (otherwise I wouldn't use it) and under performs in ways I'd like to see resolved.

    There are major bugs, especially in 8.1 (i.e. Skydrive is completely useless) which is a major issue for me (Skydrive is my 'temp' data mirror folder shared among all my PCs/laptops/tablets for development).

    The tablet is very akward in many instances such as:
    - non auto sensing api's for text entry (which should be automated as the OS registers you selected an input box)
    - very limiting behaviors such as the OSK missing major btn functionality (requiring a separate OSK)
    - weight
    - heat of tablet
    - poor build quality on some plastic components
    - caps getting stuck 'on'
    - constant browser crashes
    - the sad attempt at bringing back a start menu (by not bringing anything at all)
    - issues with apps not recognizing the touch space as proper mouse coordinates (making many apps unusable)
    - the OS falsely detecting drivers as Os8 compatible that aren't
    - very poor win store apps for 8.1 pro (FB and Twitter are worse than PB)
    - directx full screen mode crashes the entire tablet (including open gl and dosbox)
    - Problems with vmware due to the M$ virtualization
    - random BSOD DPC_watchdog errors
    - many issues with apps even m$ apps
    - i can go on and on...

    ... Yes, I know this tablet very well, this is far from 'disinformation'.

    Edited to try and tame my reply and break up the tl;dr.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    first off win 8.1 is still beta OS! and you thinking that 8.1 Is gonna work perfectly is delusional, of course it works wonky sometimes and your gonna have problems! I suggest moving back to win8 till all the bugs are worked out and when 8.1 is finally released completed then upgrade back to 8.1...that's why I haven't installed 8.1 on my RT as it's not stable enough yet. also the both my GF and myself use twitter on our RT and it has not crashed ONCE in all the months we have been using it, also if your having problems with the twitter APP then why not use the web version? I'm pretty sure you don't use the app on your desktop top, so why use an APP on the Surface Pro? as for poor build quality, are you serious? the Surface has the best quality I have ever seen! and the only plastic part is on the top where the camera and power button is, the rest is made of the magnesium 'VaporMg' casing so that is not cheap! so I call BS on the cheap and your perpetuating the BS about the Surface! also about the heating issues of course your gonna have some heating issues, inside your Pro is an i5 chip which is not like an atom processor and i5 chip is very powerful! (equivalent of an ultrabook) so what did you expect? the same thing happens with a laptop/ultrabook but I'm sure your not complaining about the laptop, because that's expected! and as for the poor apps in the store, Microsoft just added over 10,000 last couple of months to its app store roster! and the Surface is still new so of course there isn't much in the beginning, but that is changing everyday! there is everything that I needed/wanted currently in the app store! And don't forget a lot of the apps that are needed in ipad or android (example twitter, Netflix) you don't need on the Surface or app store because you have a full windows OS and full IE10/11 so the web versions work and no need for "APPs" and as for you browser problems I have NONE of that on my 2 RT's not one single crash! maybe there is something wrong with your tablet or it has something to do with 8.1 I don't know but these things your experiencing is only YOU... on both my tablets has been smooth smooth sailing which is why I luv my tablet so much!
    09-02-13 11:26 AM
  4. KermEd's Avatar
    ...first off win 8.1 is still beta OS...
    8.1 affects two of the points above. 2. You don't think I know it's a beta? I spend as much time building for m$ as I do for bb10.

    ...I suggest moving back to win8 till all the bugs are worked out and when 8.1
    Where did I ask you for tech support advice? No, I'm using 8.1 for a reason and it barely scratches the surface on areas for improvement. Downgrading the OS does little to improve the problems. Not to mention, downgrading is not possible without doing a full re image and reinstall and time is money

    ... I'm pretty sure you don't use the app on your desktop top, so why use an APP on the Surface Pro? ...
    Where have I heard this before? Its more disillusionment. The surface is not a desktop. It's a tablet - which is *not* the same thing. If I wanted to use a laptop I'd use a laptop.

    By your argument, no tablet should ever need an app. As you can use VNC / RDP on any laptop to run desktop apps. The PB does this too

    .. as for poor build quality, are you serious? ...
    No, I'm making up the fact that the plastic is weak in spots, the metal is easily scratched due to cheap coating and little tin 'flip out' is made with a warp in the factory for 6 of 6 devices I checked. Get over your disillusionment.

    ...I call BS on the cheap and your perpetuating the BS about the Surface! ...
    Call BS on whatever you like. I call BS on your entire set of responses! You dont even own a Pro - what makes you an expert? Your just a fan boy who is disillusioned with an opinion on a product you don't even own.

    ...i5 chip is very powerful! (equivalent of an ultrabook) so what did you expect? the same thing happens with a laptop/ultrabook ...
    Haha first... i5 is not powerful. it's acceptable. Make no illusions the Surface can do a lot, but it doesn't always do it well, as the CPU is limited.

    Now, my ultrabook i5 isn't running Windows 8 and doesn't heat up in the slightest. As for my laptop, it's a 32GB 3xSSD in RAID0 i7 (desktop chip) w/ 4GB Nvidia from Mythlogic. I would expect it to get hot. Again though, my zenbook doesn't get hot. Proving you wrong in your own argument.

    ...Microsoft just added over 10,000...
    Heard this before. The only difference is m$ takes only the most bare of interest in its developers. I build to the bare minimum for wp8 (just like everyone else).

    It's one thing to be missing 10 or 12 apps. 90 percent of the standard app library are missing. And the 10 percent they have are poor attempts at best.

    This is largely because their incentive programs are so terrible. Now as a developer, in truth I could do something about this. But because I'm replying on a forum to someone who thinks no one else should have an opinion - I won't have time (again) for wp8 app building this week.

    ...the web versions work and no need for "APPs" and as for you browser...
    Same opinionated comments from every platform. . I want sandboxes applications that are tablet friendly. If I want to use a browser all the time, I'll just use my BB10.

    ...I have NONE of that on my 2 RT's not one single crash! ....

    ... I don't know but these things your experiencing is only YOU...
    The RT is not a PRO - its a watered down mobile OS. Your using a different OS. As for it being 'just me'. Spend more time reading the m$ support forums where there are thousands of people having these problems with no help from m$ staff (who are suspiciously absent). That is, if you find threads m$ hasn't deleted yet (as they have been doing that lately)

    These are only 'some' of the issues. This product is far from perfect and I'm tired of pointing this out to you. You called BS yet you dont even own the product.

    I'm a supporter of the surface pro and wouldn't touch RT with a stick. The fact there is no real 4G model available clearly defines how Microsoft feels about the surface. If they won't fully commit to their own product...

    Posted via CB from my LE
    Last edited by KermEd; 09-02-13 at 01:42 PM.
    09-02-13 01:26 PM
  5. beman39's Avatar
    haha there's so many holes in your reply that it isn't funny, first off in regards to 8.1 if you know its BETA then why the hell are you complaining about it? and the fact you won't go back to 8 just means it cant be that bad!

    just because the Surface is a tablet doesn't mean you cant enjoy full robust apps! that's just ridiculous your just limiting the tablet then!

    and as for the quality of the Surface again WHAT PLASTIC? also where is your facts to back up your claims on the kick out or STAND that it is warped on 6 out 6 devices? cuzz mine is not warped nor do I have any warped parts and neither does my wifes RT also! so maybe this is just on YOUR device?

    and you telling me that an I5 is not powerful is just ignorant! the only higher more powerful chip is the i7 maybe your thinking of an i3 is not powerful? and if your Zenbook doesn't get hot on load time then your full of it! any notebook gets hot when you load it to the max or near max! surfing the net and using apps that don't load the cpu/gpu of course it wont get hot! same thing with the Surface Pro I'm sure!

    yes the RT is a watered down version of win8 but it doesn't make it any less productive or fun, like I've said I use the RT for ALOT of things and it is like 90% of a full computer so please lets not exaggerate how bad the RT is.

    and as for the 4g who cares? more than half the tablets don't support 4g and only a handful DO! also why would I want to pay for 2 data plans when all I gotta do is set wifi hotspot and connect the tablet to my phone and pay only 1 data plan! and that's the reason why only a handful of tablets support 4g! data plans are bloody expensive!

    so say what you will about my replies cuzz they make more sense than yours!
    09-02-13 05:37 PM
  6. KermEd's Avatar
    ...hot air...
    Times up for boring rants. Get a pro; use it for a month. And then we can discuss. An opinion from someone who doesn't own or use one - its just hot air.

    I acknowledge you know little about it because you don't own or use one. And I also acknowledge you are not a professional or expert in any way, shape or form.

    If I want to chat with a fanboy - I'll visit the M$ pages. . This convo has no value or reason to continue.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    09-02-13 07:35 PM
  7. beman39's Avatar
    ahaha what makes YOU an expert or professional? and what you say means nothing and holds no value, and so I don't own a Surface Pro, but I own an RT which is what like 98% same insides like a Pro, only 3things differ from the RT to a Pro, the OS, the CPU and the screen...that's it. and fanboy..really? I've owned every tablet out there (including 2 playbooks) so I think that doesn't make me a fanboy, it just makes me knowledgeable and when I see a good tablet I call it. and when I see people talking BS I call it
    09-02-13 08:25 PM
  8. jpash549's Avatar
    ahaha what makes YOU an expert or professional? and what you say means nothing and holds no value, and so I don't own a Surface Pro, but I own an RT which is what like 98% same insides like a Pro, only 3things differ from the RT to a Pro, the OS, the CPU and the screen...that's it. and fanboy..really? I've owned every tablet out there (including 2 playbooks) so I think that doesn't make me a fanboy, it just makes me knowledgeable and when I see a good tablet I call it. and when I see people talking BS I call it
    Interesting debate. RT is 98% same as Pro with only three things different: the OS, the CPU and the screen and maybe the RAM. That's the problem with the PB. It doesn't have BB10 because it doesn't have the CPU and the RAM and maybe the screen.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    KermEd likes this.
    09-02-13 08:43 PM
  9. pacoman03's Avatar
    Give it up, dude. KermEd is well known in these parts as the developer of Secure Browser and a number of other Playbook apps, and my guess is that he's developed apps for other platforms. What's in your resume, other than that you've owned a few tablets? You made the statement in an earlier post that Windows 8.1 was a beta and therefore expectedly buggy, and that was the reason that you didn't load it on your Surface RT. Really? Is that even possible, and can you provide a link proving this so. If you can't, this suggests to me that your technical knowledge is limited.

    KermEd was simply relating HIS experience with his Surface pro, and who are you to say that he's "spreading misinformation"? And, why would he do so? "Spreading misinformation" is simply a euphemism for lying- again, who are you to make this claim.
    KermEd likes this.
    09-02-13 08:43 PM
  10. KermEd's Avatar
    KermEd was simply relating HIS experience with his Surface pro.
    Thanks for the positive feedback! I didn't know anyone payed much attention to my apps these days

    In truth, I'm part at fault here too. I have been... encouraging his replies.

    Ironically your absolutely right. I submitted two major updates today with SB about to 'go under the knife'. I have a few Android apps and some for WP8 working their way through (I'm actually beta'ing an SDK for M$ that requires 8.1 - which is why I'm on the beta OS).

    Ah well - I don't think he knows how stubborn I am either.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    09-02-13 09:11 PM
  11. beman39's Avatar
    Give it up, dude. KermEd is well known in these parts as the developer of Secure Browser and a number of other Playbook apps, and my guess is that he's developed apps for other platforms. What's in your resume, other than that you've owned a few tablets? You made the statement in an earlier post that Windows 8.1 was a beta and therefore expectedly buggy, and that was the reason that you didn't load it on your Surface RT. Really? Is that even possible, and can you provide a link proving this so. If you can't, this suggests to me that your technical knowledge is limited.

    KermEd was simply relating HIS experience with his Surface pro, and who are you to say that he's "spreading misinformation"? And, why would he do so? "Spreading misinformation" is simply a euphemism for lying- again, who are you to make this claim.
    ok so he develops some apps that doesn't make him an expert, but if ever I do need any help with making apps then I def will ask his opinions... on apps! and as for MY resume, I have been repairing and building computers since windows 95 and windows operating systems and worked on apple computers since the apple IIc back in the days, ALSO I have used every tablet/pocket pc since they first came out starting with palm then HP iPaqs and Dell Axims, and so forth and so forth, so I do know how the tablets work and how they react to certain uses and abuses... and ontop of that, I work in electronics assembly and repair for the last 15years so yea I do know about electronics! how's that for a resume? and as for windows 8.1 acting buggy, well lets say I have helped a lot of people on different forums and beta testing like others and can see the problems with 8.1 and see how it is maturing also it has been posted on numerous forums how 8.1 is having trouble with certain apps and programs and hardware from computers to tablets! but what I don't like is people saying crap that isn't true about a device just like I defended the playbook from all the ifans and droidfans that used to troll here...and then BB dropped the ball and lied to us all about certain facts and that's when I decide to sell the playbooks and move on...but that's another story for another time....
    09-03-13 01:15 AM
  12. KermEd's Avatar
    Lol,

    Repairing electronics and knowing about tablets and operating systems is not the same thing . Palm apps? Are you serious, that's about as far from Windows architecture as you can get. And as for Apple IIe, some of my games may still exist on floppy from that era.

    I spent 5 years as a Senior Technical Analyst at a touch company, who's sole job was to trace root product failures and issues (including UI complaints) to core M$, HP, etc software and system bugs. Where I would work hand in hand with the company to fix the OS bug. When ever you use Tablet PC features in Windows, your using something I helped develop.

    Add another 8 years doing Software Development and architecture for UI and cross platform development. Where my specialty has been operating system analysis and frameworks... I've even had to fly out to several companies to prep their staff on building for Windows 8 as a new platform.

    I'm actually probably the closest thing in the world TO an expert, as I worked for touch companies before.

    I will stay standing before you proudly declaring the Microsoft Surface Pro as a 'needs improvement' item until it gets where it needs to be. There are plenty of gaps they need to fill, and the few friends I have who are still at Microsoft know just as well as I do what the gaps are. I get your a fan and angry that someone doesn't have this perfect opinion of the surface - but you need to learn to live with that.

    Edited to reduce content.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    Last edited by KermEd; 09-03-13 at 08:28 AM.
    09-03-13 08:14 AM
  13. beman39's Avatar
    Lol,

    Repairing electronics and knowing about tablets and operating systems is not the same thing . Palm apps? Are you serious, that's about as far from Windows architecture as you can get. And as for Apple IIe, some of my games may still exist on floppy from that era.

    I spent 5 years as a Senior Technical Analyst at a touch company, who's sole job was to trace root product failures and issues (including UI complaints) to core M$, HP, etc software and system bugs. Where I would work hand in hand with the company to fix the OS bug. When ever you use Tablet PC features in Windows, your using something I helped develop.

    Add another 8 years doing Software Development and architecture for UI and cross platform development. Where my specialty has been operating system analysis and frameworks... I've even had to fly out to several companies to prep their staff on building for Windows 8 as a new platform.

    I'm actually probably the closest thing in the world TO an expert, as I worked for touch companies before.

    I will stay standing before you proudly declaring the Microsoft Surface Pro as a 'needs improvement' item until it gets where it needs to be. There are plenty of gaps they need to fill, and the few friends I have who are still at Microsoft know just as well as I do what the gaps are. I get your a fan and angry that someone doesn't have this perfect opinion of the surface - but you need to learn to live with that.

    Edited to reduce content.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    jeez I mentioned 3 other manufacturers and you walk away with plam only? really? I used palm as a reference to all the diverse electronics that I have used and repaired! also I say I am an electronics but been repairing computers since 95 and you totally disregard that also, AMAZING! talk about selective hearing...or reading! anyways whatever and yes the only thing I agree with you is that Surface might need more improvement as do ALL tablets on the market, jeez even apple and android devices needed improvement when they first appeared on the market, so lets not ignore that the Surface is still relatively new! but the way you were going on is like the Surface was a piece of crap! which it isn't! so when I see **** like that it irks me to no end! and BTW if I was a fanboy do you think I would have other devices like my note2 which is android and hp touchpad which has WebOS and CM9 Android and plethora of other devices from different OS/brands? no, I don't think so, so nice try on the fanboy remark..ayways lets agree to disagree on your view of the Surface, M'kay?
    09-03-13 12:52 PM
  14. KermEd's Avatar
    Your right, I did come across harsh on the surface.

    Just to clarify (because I should have said this sooner) : I do love the tablet - sadly even more than I loved my PB. I use it daily and the full Win 8 OS can be a real life saver. In fact I was at a conference this past week where it saved the show thanks to having Office 2013.

    My worry though - is people who expect it to be a tablet... it's not like the RT. It really can struggle to be a tablet itself. It's a good laptop alternative - but not something you want to sit and play PvZ.

    I can respect your opinion and am happy to just say we disagree on some of it.


    Posted via CB from my LE
    09-03-13 03:03 PM
  15. jpash549's Avatar
    dazzleaj: Any updates or is it long gone.
    09-04-13 04:29 PM
  16. KermEd's Avatar
    Good question.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    09-04-13 04:32 PM
  17. ChrisMay's Avatar
    dazzleaj: Any updates or is it long gone.
    I think KermEd and Beman frightened him off!!
    09-05-13 10:38 AM
  18. RaverWild's Avatar
    Hmm, this thread really discouraged me. So I so much wanted to get a PB, just put the money into my Visa. Was looking on Amazon. But it seems only defective and/or returned devices are being sold...?
    09-05-13 11:59 AM
  19. ChrisMay's Avatar
    Hmm, this thread really discouraged me. So I so much wanted to get a PB, just put the money into my Visa. Was looking on Amazon. But it seems only defective and/or returned devices are being sold...?
    I guess no-one can really advise you on this. You would have to make your own decision whether to buy or not. I would say though that one (or maybe two - I think someone else in this thread had a similar problem) example of a faulty device (and we are not even sure that it is yet) is not enough to prove that all Playbooks now on sale are going to have a similar problem... But like I say, don't buy if you are not confident.
    09-05-13 12:50 PM
  20. KermEd's Avatar
    I think I've had 12 PlayBooks. Of those 1 was faulty - bad motherboard. But RIM made it easy to replace. (easier and faster than our faulty ipad where 1 of 2 failed - bad SIM reader).

    If I had to pick between those two, ipad or PB, I'd probably still go PB. *except* PvZ2 is kinda fun.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    09-09-13 03:57 PM
  21. dazzleaj's Avatar
    Well to end this, for anyone who cares, after stack charging for hundreds of cycles and sacrificing a chicken, as well as singing Himalayan derges over it for several days, I finally called BB and just sent it off on its FedExed way to the great PlayBook hospital in Lavergne, TN.
    Perhaps there is a PlayBook that cant be fixed by us mortals by stack charging after all!! Who knew
    FF22 likes this.
    10-03-13 10:38 PM
  22. FF22's Avatar
    Oh, you could have walked over to Tenn just as quick! Good luck
    dazzleaj likes this.
    10-04-13 10:27 PM
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