03-02-14 03:38 PM
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  1. Omnitech's Avatar
    Well I think your question has been fully explained at this point

    Not really. The original poster did get a lot of sarcastic replies though. See below.


    My playbook gets internet from my home ISP.
    However, this poses an interesting question:
    -what if I took my playbook to a Macdonalds for the free internet and downloaded a movie
    and then watched it at home. Would it cost then?

    Sorry that this has gone on for 50 posts so far without any apparently straightforward explanations forthcoming.

    The above question is a good one. Here are the basics - explanation under diagram:


    My internet usage shows a significant spike when I stream movies on my Playbook - why?-home_network_simple.png


    Any time you transfer data from the internet to your house, it will count against your ISP usage plan and potentially cost you money.

    That means sending data over the links labeled "A" or "B" in the diagram.

    Sending only within your house, ie over only links "C", "D" or "E" will not use data from your ISP plan and will not cost you money. (In the diagram, "C" and "E" are wired links, and "D" is a wireless link, ie your Playbook's internet connection to your home router)

    If you are watching a live video stream, whether on the computer or Playbook, you are transferring data from the Internet.

    If you were able to go to a public WiFi hotspot (ie McDonalds, Starbucks, etc) and download the video and SAVE it on your Playbook,
    you could take the SAVED video back to your house and play it on your TV (which only uses link "E"), without any charge to you, because at that point your transmission takes place only within your house and not back/forth to the Internet.

    Many video sources try to make it difficult or impossible to SAVE videos published online, because they want to prevent people saving and distributing the content outside of their control. However there are ways to do this in some cases, I'm sure if you post a question about that some people can give you suggestions.

    Hopefully this clears up the confusion.
    DaFoxGrey and castoridae like this.
    02-22-14 06:03 AM
  2. ayekon's Avatar
    I had to read this thread all the way to the end...
    Like a Syfy movie...
    Sharknado style
    castoridae and decoy7 like this.
    02-22-14 11:56 AM
  3. nappp's Avatar
    Wait until he finds out data was used to post in this thread...

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 and decoy7 like this.
    02-22-14 12:34 PM
  4. Omnitech's Avatar
    Wait until he finds out data was used to post in this thread...

    Very little of course.

    And I wouldn't be surprised if he's been chased-off now after the continuously snarky comments anyway.
    castoridae likes this.
    02-22-14 11:18 PM
  5. castoridae's Avatar
    Kinda what I was wondering. Someone who claims to not know how the internet works is speaking for all of Canada in how their internet works. LOL. All over Canada the services are different, just like all over the U.S.

    One thing is for sure though, whether you download something or stream it........ it uses data. lol.
    wow - guys, just wow - if you're going to jump onto someone's thread to be nasty, you should probably read the info on it first.
    I did not claim to speak for all of any country. Certain comments were in response to clarify what others thought.
    So. To paraphrase the words of Bob Dylan: if you can't lend a hand, then get out of the road.
    Omnitech and Carl Estes like this.
    02-23-14 12:10 AM
  6. pacoman03's Avatar
    Wait until he finds out data was used to post in this thread...
    Very little of course.
    And I wouldn't be surprised if he's been chased-off now after the continuously snarky comments anyway.
    Well, actually "he" is a she, and while she's not the most technically proficient person you'll meet, she is getting better. We all have to start somewhere, don't we? Certainly not everyone understands internet data usage. I recently had to explain to my sister how data worked when using her new android phone- calls- no, texts-no, email- yes, navigating with google maps- yes, streaming video-, yes yes yes. I also had to explain that she should always connect to her hone wifi when possible to avoid using her data. So if someone, who maybe sounded like they knew what they were talking about, said streaming video would not use data, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that she believed it. I'm sure she's aware now that this information was incorrect.
    castoridae and Carl Estes like this.
    02-23-14 12:36 AM
  7. Omnitech's Avatar
    So if someone, who maybe sounded like they knew what they were talking about, said streaming video would not use data, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that she believed it. I'm sure she's aware now that this information was incorrect.

    I totally understand that, which is why I made the effort to explain in detail.

    Because when castoridae suggested 'downloading' videos at ie McDonalds and playing them at home as an idea to save on data consumption, she was clearly on the right track.

    The only thing that she was unclear on - and I can easily understand why because it's not necessarily obvious - is what kind of "playing" uses internet bandwidth and what kind does not.

    There has been a major paradigm shift over the last 10-15 years where people under the age of 30 oftentimes have never in their lives even encountered a vinyl record, CD or tape. To them, "all" media is found online, basically.

    So we have this confusion over what "playing" means. For most of my life, that would mean you had a copy of something that you put into a "player" of some sort and played it. Today it more often means "hook something up to the internet and stream something from some server somewhere".

    It certainly does not help that the application you are playing a static file with is oftentimes the SAME application you use to stream online content with.

    I hope castoridae did finally get some benefit from all of the noise here.
    castoridae and decoy7 like this.
    02-23-14 01:16 AM
  8. castoridae's Avatar
    I totally understand that, which is why I made the effort to explain in detail.

    Because when castoridae suggested 'downloading' videos at ie McDonalds and playing them at home as an idea to save on data consumption, she was clearly on the right track.

    The only thing that she was unclear on - and I can easily understand why because it's not necessarily obvious - is what kind of "playing" uses internet bandwidth and what kind does not.

    There has been a major paradigm shift over the last 10-15 years where people under the age of 30 oftentimes have never in their lives even encountered a vinyl record, CD or tape. To them, "all" media is found online, basically.

    So we have this confusion over what "playing" means. For most of my life, that would mean you had a copy of something that you put into a "player" of some sort and played it. Today it more often means "hook something up to the internet and stream something from some server somewhere".

    It certainly does not help that the application you are playing a static file with is oftentimes the SAME application you use to stream online content with.

    I hope castoridae did finally get some benefit from all of the noise here.
    Thank you for the diagram and for the description. It is one of the best explanations so far.
    You actually hit the nail on the head regarding understanding the new world order in computers.
    My first computer usage was crunching numbers at university using punch cards in the 70s.
    My first computer was a Commodore 64.
    I now use my playbook almost exclusively and rarely turn on my PC except when having to convert android apps to .bar for the PB. I learned this from posts and asking questions on this site.
    BTW: I still have several VCRs so I get to tape TV programs (free) instead of paying cable providers for that 'record movies' feature they now offer, so I guess having historical knowledge does pay off sometimes

    ALSO: thanks to everyone who contributed information, I learned from each of them, including checking out cheaper Canadian carriers. The nasty comments, well, they just tell you there will always be jerks, but the helpful people win out in the end because they're better all round people.
    kbz1960 and Omnitech like this.
    02-23-14 08:54 AM
  9. Gooseberry Falls's Avatar
    Yeah, I was a little disappointed in the community. There are no stupid questions and everyone is at different tech levels of understanding. Be supportive and not judgmental.
    castoridae likes this.
    02-23-14 11:17 AM
  10. Omnitech's Avatar
    Thank you for the diagram and for the description. It is one of the best explanations so far.

    The pleasure is mine and you are welcome.



    You actually hit the nail on the head regarding understanding the new world order in computers.
    My first computer usage was crunching numbers at university using punch cards in the 70s.
    My first computer was a Commodore 64.

    As was my first computer. But as a fairly techy guy (electronics in my case at the time) I was sorta late to the computer thing - didn't help that they were damn expensive in those days.

    We had a punchcard machine in my high school math class. Write a simple program, send it off to the data center, and get your printout a week later.
    castoridae likes this.
    02-23-14 12:15 PM
  11. EchoesFX's Avatar
    Working for Bell Canada gave me a real appreciation for our (pretty much) unlimited ISPs here in the US. So many college kids always called in irate because sales sold them the Essential package with only 2Gb/mo, didn't bother to ask what they planned to do with it (or explain what a gigabyte was/how much stuff used) and then they got a bill with an extra $30 charge for the excess data.

    It's been a few years, have things at least improved for Canadians?

    Posted via CB10
    castoridae likes this.
    02-24-14 08:34 PM
  12. castoridae's Avatar
    Working for Bell Canada gave me a real appreciation for our (pretty much) unlimited ISPs here in the US. So many college kids always called in irate because sales sold them the Essential package with only 2Gb/mo, didn't bother to ask what they planned to do with it (or explain what a gigabyte was/how much stuff used) and then they got a bill with an extra $30 charge for the excess data.

    It's been a few years, have things at least improved for Canadians?

    Posted via CB10
    Compared what I've put below with U.S. Prices, I still think Canadian prices are horrific, but this is just one company.
    I'm not sure if this is an improvement, but here are some Rogers pkgs from high to low (the 2 GB pkg no longer exists w/Rogers):

    Ultimate Fibre $225.99/month for 2 TB download speed= 350 Mbps / Upload = 350 Mbps

    Ultimate. $125.99/month for 1 TB

    Extreme Plus $77.99/month for 150 GB

    Extreme $67.99/month for 120 GB download speed = 35 Mbps / Upload = 3 Mbps

    Express $54.99/month for 80 GB

    Lite $44.49/month for 20 GB download speed. = 6 Mbp / upload 256 kbps
    02-24-14 11:41 PM
  13. Omnitech's Avatar
    Compared what I've put below with U.S. Prices, I still think Canadian prices are horrific, but this is just one company.
    I'm not sure if this is an improvement, but here are some Rogers pkgs from high to low (the 2 GB pkg no longer exists w/Rogers):

    Ultimate Fibre $225.99/month for 2 TB download speed= 350 Mbps / Upload = 350 Mbps

    Ultimate. $125.99/month for 1 TB

    Extreme Plus $77.99/month for 150 GB

    Extreme $67.99/month for 120 GB download speed = 35 Mbps / Upload = 3 Mbps

    Express $54.99/month for 80 GB

    Lite $44.49/month for 20 GB download speed. = 6 Mbp / upload 256 kbps


    I don't know what the exchange rate is these days, but if CAD is close to USD at the moment, those are not far off from what one pays here for cable internet these days, especially if you don't have a "bundle". (Cable companies love to push people into a bundle of services which are more profitable since the base cost of serving the customer doesn't change that much as services are added)

    What might be a little more restrictive is the maximum transfer allowance. I'm not a cable customer myself but I encounter them from time to time in the business.

    The effective US broadband duopoly of legacy telcos combined with cable companies have accomplished what we all were afraid of: driven out the competition by a combination of heavy lobbying of politicians and regulatory agencies combined with predatory pricing in various markets over the last ~5 years. Broadband access keeps going up in price rather than down.

    Yes, available speeds are increasing too, but A) not as much as most of the rest of the developed world, especially for the price, and B) if you just want "entry level" service, it's basically nonexistent. It is now almost impossible to get cable broadband under ~$40-$45/mo, whereas not too long ago one would often see promotions on DSL for around $15-$20/mo. Those don't exist any more, unless it is a short-term promo linked to a long-term contract.
    02-25-14 01:08 AM
  14. castoridae's Avatar
    I don't know what the exchange rate is these days, but if CAD is close to USD at the moment, those are not far off from what one pays here for cable internet these days, especially if you don't have a "bundle". (Cable companies love to push people into a bundle of services which are more profitable since the base cost of serving the customer doesn't change that much as services are added)

    What might be a little more restrictive is the maximum transfer allowance. I'm not a cable customer myself but I encounter them from time to time in the business.

    The effective US broadband duopoly of legacy telcos combined with cable companies have accomplished what we all were afraid of: driven out the competition by a combination of heavy lobbying of politicians and regulatory agencies combined with predatory pricing in various markets over the last ~5 years. Broadband access keeps going up in price rather than down.

    Yes, available speeds are increasing too, but A) not as much as most of the rest of the developed world, especially for the price, and B) if you just want "entry level" service, it's basically nonexistent. It is now almost impossible to get cable broadband under ~$40-$45/mo, whereas not too long ago one would often see promotions on DSL for around $15-$20/mo. Those don't exist any more, unless it is a short-term promo linked to a long-term contract.
    Is it also true that the U.S. Companies are attempting to get people to buy pkgs where they just have access to certain sites? I read something about this - an attempt to control (and limit) what people access on the web?
    02-25-14 01:31 AM
  15. Omnitech's Avatar
    Is it also true that the U.S. Companies are attempting to get people to buy pkgs where they just have access to certain sites? I read something about this - an attempt to control (and limit) what people access on the web?

    The debate on "network neutrality" has been raging for a few years now.

    It certainly hasn't reached the point where they offer service plans which only provide access to a small number of sites, but with the concentration of the internet provider market amongst a small number of giant companies, there is always a temptation to play games with at the very least "throttling" or "prioritizing" content based on a provider's business interests. Especially since a lot of these companies are not just internet conduits, but also large media companies. (For example, Comcast owns the giant media company NBC Universal, Universal studios, and many other media businesses. Comcast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    There have been cases where cable companies have been caught secretly throttling certain kinds of content without notice to customers, and some believe they may currently be doing this to ie Netflix content, since they essentially compete with cable company media content.

    Unfortunately the US congress has been unwilling to make much of an issue of this, though the current FCC has been trying to keep pushing for standards despite that.
    castoridae likes this.
    02-25-14 01:56 AM
  16. castoridae's Avatar
    The debate on "network neutrality" has been raging for a few years now.

    It certainly hasn't reached the point where they offer service plans which only provide access to a small number of sites, but with the concentration of the internet provider market amongst a small number of giant companies, there is always a temptation to play games with at the very least "throttling" or "prioritizing" content based on a provider's business interests. Especially since a lot of these companies are not just internet conduits, but also large media companies. (For example, Comcast owns the giant media company NBC Universal, Universal studios, and many other media businesses. Comcast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    There have been cases where cable companies have been caught secretly throttling certain kinds of content without notice to customers, and some believe they may currently be doing this to ie Netflix content, since they essentially compete with cable company media content.

    Unfortunately the US congress has been unwilling to make much of an issue of this, though the current FCC has been trying to keep pushing for standards despite that.
    Sadly, this is not new. An innovative product appears, it becomes so popular that it becomes an essential, others embellish it and everyone is haapy, then someone tries to own/control it and spoils the whole thing.
    Omnitech likes this.
    02-25-14 01:28 PM
  17. EchoesFX's Avatar
    Those prices are pretty close to US prices. But savvy customers CAN bend the company over a barrel sometimes...

    I had negotiated $10/mo for a one year contract at my previous residence though, for up to 12mbit/sec download (I forget the upload speed)... By buying my BlackBerry Z10 and bundling the Verizon bill with the CenturyLink bill AND threatening to downgrade to the lowest tier to save money because I bought the phone.

    Sometimes the customer wins I guess

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 02:05 PM
  18. leehardballer12's Avatar
    A few things....I haven't seen it mentioned, but one advantage to saving a media file vs streaming it is that once it's stored, it can be played at any time without needing any Internet connection. Saves battery life as well playing media with the Internet connection turned off. Usually it costs quite a bit more to be able to save media vs a one time streaming though.
    My family's first home computer when I was a kid was a Commodore 64 hooked up to the TV for a monitor. LOL! That brought back memories of Oregon Trail....my how gaming has advanced! Now you need a high speed Internet connection with virtually unlimited cap to play the most popular games.
    Also, when I first "found" the Internet, I had unlimited DSL at one time for $15/month for two years until it jumped up to $30/month once my 2yr contact ended. I remember having the special filters that I had to plug into the phone jacks so the phones could be used. Now, I have Internet that is much, much faster that supports up to 10 devices over wifi and I don't use a land line phone.

    Posted via CB10
    castoridae likes this.
    02-25-14 11:46 PM
  19. Brutal Efficiency's Avatar
    You could use your phone as a wifi hotspot then connect your PB to that. It is just unusual these days to find a home internet plan that is not unlimited. Cell phone data plans used to be unlimited but they are finding they can make more money with the limited plans, especially if you go over the limit. LOL.
    Maybe in your country.

    In the rest of the world, unlimited is hard to find.

    In Australia, I wouldn't know many, if any, with completely unlimited.

    Quality Poultry - Channel PIN: C004B64D1
    castoridae likes this.
    03-02-14 03:03 PM
  20. castoridae's Avatar
    Maybe in your country.

    In the rest of the world, unlimited is hard to find.

    In Australia, I wouldn't know many, if any, with completely unlimited.

    Quality Poultry - Channel PIN: C004B64D1
    Yep, what you're saying is pretty much what happens in Canada too, so I try to be careful. This streaming vs downloading movies caught me off guard. Also, NETFLIX is not supported for playbook, so, I stream from freebee sites.
    03-02-14 03:38 PM
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