01-06-12 09:36 PM
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  1. dbwoo's Avatar
    If RIM does give up on the PlayBook, then it can basically write off its future in enterprise and government markets, and look for another role in life. RIM must have something that is a reasonable alternative to the iPad, or else competitors (Apple? perhaps even Microsoft?) will essentially wipe RIM out in enterprise and government markets. Most enterprise CIOs carry an iPad, and they were not impressed by the PlayBook. In my opinion, reversing their opinion of the PlayBook is absolutely necessary for RIM in these markets. Since I don't see RIM giving up on these markets, I don't see RIM giving up on tablets.

    The PlayBook is do or die for RIM's core enterprise/government markets, and it is do or die for BB10 <-- my opinion, of course.
    I agreed. RIM needs their piece of the pie of the tablet market in order to maintain their smartfphone devices in the enterprise market.

    For the comments about 7" is better than 10", I think there will be 2 sizes because 1 size doesn't fit all. Actually there is going to be 3 sizes(BB10 phones).
    01-03-12 01:39 PM
  2. PineappleUnderTheSea's Avatar
    My only worry for 2012 for the PB is a 7" iPad coming out. If this happens, then there is no reason for the general public to go buy a PB (and I stress "general public" here, not BB owners). But RIM is probably already aware of that, so one of my predictions would be that RIM is working with a few partners to create a "RIM ecosystem", not unlike Amazon.

    We'll see...
    01-03-12 01:53 PM
  3. dbwoo's Avatar
    My only worry for 2012 for the PB is a 7" iPad coming out. If this happens, then there is no reason for the general public to go buy a PB (and I stress "general public" here, not BB owners). But RIM is probably already aware of that, so one of my predictions would be that RIM is working with a few partners to create a "RIM ecosystem", not unlike Amazon.

    We'll see...
    What if the PB is at a lower price point, has better hardware and a better UI than a 7" IPAD? Will that attract the general public?

    Hhmmmmm never mind, that is the situation we are in now.
    01-03-12 03:17 PM
  4. Pilchard's Avatar
    I think financial considerations means PB won't see out 2012.

    Amazon can subsidise Kindle Fire because of the margin it makes on the content consumed. RIM doesn't have that content, just some margin on selling apps. It won't be enough. There's no shame in a good effort failing, better than not to have tried (usually!) RIM's future is in phones and services, not in tablets.

    I will be delighted to be wrong about the demise of PB, but this is just how I see it.
    01-03-12 03:32 PM
  5. chrism_scotland's Avatar
    Im on the fence really, RIM are getting slammed by the financial and tech press right now and I suspect that while the current PB will remain supported (and it might as well as its using the same OS as the phones will) but I don't believe we will see any new Blackberry tablets until 2013.

    Bottom line is that RIM needs to get its BB10 phones sorted first, if they dont get that done then we can forget not just about future PB models but future Blackberry's as well.

    I'd rather they keep focus on the BB10 phones this year, RIM can survive and move on without a tablet in their lineup but they won't last much longer without new and up-to-date phones and OS.
    01-03-12 06:58 PM
  6. Unsure2's Avatar
    My predictions plus $2 will buy you a cup of coffee, but, for what they're worth:

    The Playbook will be discontinued. After the advent of the $199 Fire, which is subsidized by Amazon's media sales, RIM no longer has a realistic hope of making money on the Playbook. The firesales make more sense in the going-out-of-business scenario than anywhere else. After all, if RIM were going to pull a rabbit out of the hat to coincide with the launch of OS2 in February, why not just sit on the stockpile of Firebooks and sell them for more a month from now? Also, thinking about it, if RIM were serious about continuing with the Playbook, I do not think it would sit back and watch while major retailers (Staples, Best Buy) tell the public the Playbook is toast. Bad PR...

    We will get OS2 in February or sooner. I have the Beta installed, and it already seems quite stable. After discontinuing the Playbook, RIM will try to let owners down gently.

    RIM will be bought up at some near point, but not necessarily now, for its patent portfolio. It may have to stumble along with its new phone launches for a bit longer before this happens, given that its co-chairs are also its major stockholders.
    01-03-12 07:19 PM
  7. Darlaten's Avatar
    For my speculation, as much as I would hate to see it happen, I think the Playbook will be pulled from the market this year particularly if Apple does announce a price drop of the Ipad2 to $299 as is currently being rumored on the 'net. I just cant see how the Playbook, with its non-existent app ecosystem, will be able to compete against a $299 Apple tablet that has a robust app ecosystem.
    01-03-12 09:41 PM
  8. chrism_scotland's Avatar
    For my speculation, as much as I would hate to see it happen, I think the Playbook will be pulled from the market this year particularly if Apple does announce a price drop of the Ipad2 to $299 as is currently being rumored on the 'net. I just cant see how the Playbook, with its non-existent app ecosystem, will be able to compete against a $299 Apple tablet that has a robust app ecosystem.
    I agree if the iPad 2 was cut in price then I think all other tablet manufacturers could pack up and go home really.

    Noone is going to buy an Android or BBX tablet if they can get a similarly specced iPad for the same.
    However its Apple's 7" tablet rumour that would worry me more, a lot of people bought the PB because of its size, if there was a 7" iPad then a lot of people would buy that instead.

    I'm beginning to suspect that my current 9900 and Playbook lineup may well be my last Blackberry devices sadly, I'm beginning to wonder if by the time that my next upgrade is due (late 2012) RIM will either not still be here, or owned by someone else.

    As much as I see Microsoft and RIM as a decent fit I'm not honestly sure whether I think WP7 is any better than BB10 can be and if anything I'd rather see RIM adopt Android, I think they could be massive players in the Android market v the likes of HTC and Samsung.
    01-04-12 04:21 AM
  9. hardcastle's Avatar
    I agree if the iPad 2 was cut in price then I think all other tablet manufacturers could pack up and go home really.

    Noone is going to buy an Android or BBX tablet if they can get a similarly specced iPad for the same.
    However its Apple's 7" tablet rumour that would worry me more, a lot of people bought the PB because of its size, if there was a 7" iPad then a lot of people would buy that instead.

    I'm beginning to suspect that my current 9900 and Playbook lineup may well be my last Blackberry devices sadly, I'm beginning to wonder if by the time that my next upgrade is due (late 2012) RIM will either not still be here, or owned by someone else.

    As much as I see Microsoft and RIM as a decent fit I'm not honestly sure whether I think WP7 is any better than BB10 can be and if anything I'd rather see RIM adopt Android, I think they could be massive players in the Android market v the likes of HTC and Samsung.
    you on AVF mate?

    RE: Blackberry, Im sure therell be under new ownership by Q4 2012.

    In terms of sustainability i think the best possible outcome for rim would be if they were swallowed up in some windows OS licensing style agreement.

    I love my playbook but wont touch another handset unless things are shaken up BIG time. More over thePlaybook had the potential to be the ultimate work companion if 2.0 and then some was there at release.

    Its still the best 7" tab on the market, for how much longer i dont know..
    01-04-12 04:42 AM
  10. JeepBB's Avatar
    For me, it's a heart vs head thing.

    Gazing into my crystal ball ...

    What I think will almost certainly happen is that RIM will show-off the existing Playbook with OS2 at CES. I don't believe the rumours about a hardware-revised Playbook2 coming anytime soon - as I don't reckon hardware has ever been a big issue for the Playbook and I haven't seen leaks from the supply chain who would make components for these "new" Playbooks.

    My heart hopes that CES will be the big come-back for Playbook (and RIM), and the star-billing of Playbook by RIM shows their commitment to the Playbook tablet. The decision to increase ownership by the huge price-cuts will be vindicated as smart marketing by creating a vocal increased fan-base who will tell their friends of their positive hands-on experience, and OS2 (shown at CES) will be released in February to answer the remaining critics. A hardware-refreshed Playbook2 will be announced later in 2012 to capitalise on the positive trend.

    My head says that CES will still give star-billing to the Playbook and OS2 (what else do RIM have to show-off?), but that it will be the swansong performance for the Playbook. It'll be more a case of RIM thumbing their nose at the critics who doubted that OS2 would ever happen. OS2 would be released in February to be installed on the (now completely soldout) Playbooks - the price-cutting exercise now being revealed as a firesale... to be followed a short time later by RIM's announcement that "RIM remain committed to the tablet concept... and that Playbook helped them develop ideas which will inform the design of a new tablet that they will release at a future date". RIM won't explicitly say so, but Playbook will be allowed to slowly fade into history.

    Because both scenarios have the same first steps, I don't think I'll know if my head or heart will be correct until say March/April.

    Though, to be honest, my existing Playbook completed by an OS2 that brings most of what has been rumoured will suit my needs perfectly, so I guess I win either way!
    Last edited by JeepBB; 01-04-12 at 09:48 AM.
    01-04-12 08:22 AM
  11. alnamvet68's Avatar
    I predict a long future for the Playbook.
    01-04-12 09:22 AM
  12. Blackberry_boffin's Avatar
    Everyone keeps saying the PB will die.
    Why would you kill off the first/only device (with excellent hardware) running your future OS? Kill off your only test bed? How daft is that?
    Moving on; ipad aside which other tablet is faring better in the sales stakes? Please enlighten me. They may be better but they are hardly selling too.
    RIM criminally over-estimated demand and made too many PBs with lofty projections. Then they took (are taking) too long to redress obvious shortcomings that are inhibiting the PB potential.
    Lastly, even with all bells and whistles running fully it is never wise to price a 7inch tablet at the same price with a competing 10 inch one, more-so if you are squaring up against Apple (they made the damn things mainstream after all).
    In tech, more screen real estate is MORE nowadays and that's an end of it. Prices have to reflect that.
    01-04-12 11:43 AM
  13. kemj's Avatar
    I believe this is not a bad thing, after all.
    01-04-12 11:48 AM
  14. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    in 2k12 PB will have a native email app (maybe an Android one, available in AppWorld), a soft power button & angry birds for free.

    Then people will buy it and several months later, usage statistics will show that 80% of users claim as being best features of the PB :
    1. The ease of use with their new BB phone (yes, they did convert with BB OS 10)
    2. Security ("all on my phone, no sync")
    3. Bridge free Internet connexion (and phone access/control)
    3. Multitasking and OS gesture
    4. HD Video capture/playback (DLNA ?)

    In fact, not much more than what we have (in beta 2) today ... but repackaged, re-marketed (price, target) ... people like the box first, Steve knew hat.
    stevepar likes this.
    01-04-12 12:01 PM
  15. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    For me, it's a heart vs head thing.

    Gazing into my crystal ball ...

    What I think will almost certainly happen is that RIM will show-off the existing Playbook with OS2 at CES. I don't believe the rumours about a hardware-revised Playbook2 coming anytime soon - as I don't reckon hardware has ever been a big issue for the Playbook and I haven't seen leaks from the supply chain who would make components for these "new" Playbooks.

    My heart hopes that CES will be the big come-back for Playbook (and RIM), and the star-billing of Playbook by RIM shows their commitment to the Playbook tablet. The decision to increase ownership by the huge price-cuts will be vindicated as smart marketing by creating a vocal increased fan-base who will tell their friends of their positive hands-on experience, and OS2 (shown at CES) will be released in February to answer the remaining critics. A hardware-refreshed Playbook2 will be announced later in 2012 to capitalise on the positive trend.

    My head says that CES will still give star-billing to the Playbook and OS2 (what else do RIM have to show-off?), but that it will be the swansong performance for the Playbook. It'll be more a case of RIM thumbing their nose at the critics who doubted that OS2 would ever happen. OS2 would be released in February to be installed on the (now completely soldout) Playbooks - the price-cutting exercise now being revealed as a firesale... to be followed a short time later by RIM's announcement that "RIM remain committed to the tablet concept... and that Playbook helped them develop ideas which will inform the design of a new tablet that they will release at a future date". RIM won't explicitly say so, but Playbook will be allowed to slowly fade into history.

    Because both scenarios have the same first steps, I don't think I'll know if my head or heart will be correct until say March/April.

    Though, to be honest, my existing Playbook completed by an OS2 that brings most of what has been rumoured will suit my needs perfectly, so I guess I win either way!
    I think you've actually evaluated it about as intelligently as anyone else has. I like your head/heart analysis; I think both are true, in fact.

    The pundits who keep predicting the demise of the Playbook bring up the HP TouchPad as their exemplar but there are a few things they're missing:

    • I think HP acted precipitously. There were a great many ways they could have handled the WebOS situation without pulling the plug within 60 days of a high-profile launch of a product that was actually proving a modest success in the marketplace.
    • WebOS WAS NOT HP's CORE BUSINESS!!! (*whew*). Sorry for yelling. HP wasn't in the phone business, and only demonstrated lukewarm enthusiasm for BEING in the phone business after the Palm purchase. Conversely, RIM has done everything it can to make QNX its core business. They can't afford to just shutter it. The difference here was that HP tried to broaden the appeal of a platform that had a few rabid consumer supporters, in the vain hopes that more rabid fans would somehow magically appear. RIM bought a proven industrial-grade platform and has since worked to adapt it to a consumer market. I think RIM's approach was the smarter one.
    • Once you accept the proposition that QNX is RIM's future, it gets a lot harder to count on the demise of the Playbook. Why would they quit the tablet market when they're planning to extend the OS to handsets? Remember: HP didn't just kill the TouchPad, they killed the WebOS phones right along with it.
    azrin640 likes this.
    01-04-12 05:09 PM
  16. dbwoo's Avatar
    Everyone keeps saying the PB will die.
    Why would you kill off the first/only device (with excellent hardware) running your future OS? Kill off your only test bed? How daft is that?
    Moving on; ipad aside which other tablet is faring better in the sales stakes? Please enlighten me. They may be better but they are hardly selling too.
    RIM criminally over-estimated demand and made too many PBs with lofty projections. Then they took (are taking) too long to redress obvious shortcomings that are inhibiting the PB potential.
    Lastly, even with all bells and whistles running fully it is never wise to price a 7inch tablet at the same price with a competing 10 inch one, more-so if you are squaring up against Apple (they made the damn things mainstream after all).
    In tech, more screen real estate is MORE nowadays and that's an end of it. Prices have to reflect that.
    It wasn't that long ago that the smaller and thinner the mobile device is, the more expensive they are.
    01-04-12 06:40 PM
  17. VerryBestr's Avatar
    TB, just because QNX is RIM's core does not mean that the PB is. RIM has lots of reasons to drop the PB. First, they should have never got into the business in the first place. Second, it has done nothing but lose them money, reputation, and momentum for more important projects. It is time fans ...
    I am not a RIM fan.

    I would like to hear some of your analysis rather than your ... pontificating.

    What are the "important projects" that RIM should have executed rather than the PlayBook? I presume you can describe at least two of them. I think it would be cheating to name new BB10 phones as one of those "important projects" since, of course, the PlayBook is a dry run for BB10, its development systems, and BB10 apps.

    I've made my case here:
    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ml#post6952201
    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ml#post6993306
    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ml#post6997783

    What's your case?
    01-04-12 06:52 PM
  18. Nihil_2005's Avatar
    I have had a 1st gen iPad 16GB wi-fi for a while and I love it. I've also wanted the Playbook ever since it came out because it seems more portable and looks better than those Android tablets. I ordered a 64GB now that it's dropped down to $299. I've seen lots of video reviews and mostly all of them are positive.

    iPad has great apps and bad apps. I'm not familiar with the BB app store yet since I'm still waiting for my Playbook to come in. But if RIM want to really succeed with the Playbook, they need to get many great apps from great developers. No native email or calendar is something that is needed and I know that's a big complaint. RIM's target audience for the Playbook are business people. Their target audience needs to be every one, and you get that in part by offering great apps.

    I think the Playbook Bridge is genius. I have an iPad and iPhone 3GS, and you can only tether the two by jailbreaking or doing other mods. Now that I'm getting a Playbook, I'm also planning to get a BB phone. RIM need to market Bridge because there are a lot of people that have BB phones that don't own Playbooks. Also, how about market the use of the front camera. I plan to video chat with my brother who owns an iPad 2. Finally, market the great apps that target little kids all the way to the old people.

    I don't know if I'll ditch my iPad, but I'll give the Playbook a try and I'll support it because it seems like a great device with a great OS.
    stevepar likes this.
    01-05-12 12:11 AM
  19. sjefferson21's Avatar
    i would do an lte playbook if it retained the current size
    01-05-12 01:14 AM
  20. Pearl9100's Avatar
    TB, just because QNX is RIM's core does not mean that the PB is. RIM has lots of reasons to drop the PB. First, they should have never got into the business in the first place. Second, it has done nothing but lose them money, reputation, and momentum for more important projects.

    It is time fans face the fact that RIM is not Apple, Samsung,, Google, MS, or Amazon. Heck, RIM is not even RIM anymore, and never will be again. The glory days are over and out. If RIM is lucky, they will survive as a smaller, smarter, trim line version of their former selves. RIM and their fans will have to be content with becoming the phone of choice for developing nations for as long as they can.
    I totally agree with this post. Rim should focus on their phones first. Had they done that, they wouldn't be in this position. I especially agree with the bolded section. Anyone with any business sense would agree that this is the current direction that they need to head toward. Rim has had a lot of growing pains by trying to grow and expand their brand. It is time to call it quits and scale back.
    01-05-12 02:31 AM
  21. Barljo's Avatar
    As much as I dislike the scaremongering and sweeping statements that we've all read a million times on this board, I think that to not release a PB OS2 would shatter confidence in the company and it would pretty much done.

    However, to say that the PB will be put out to pasture is also daft. It has been the precurser to BB10, and I would imagine that it will be supported in line with BB10 for a year or two.

    I agree if the iPad 2 was cut in price then I think all other tablet manufacturers could pack up and go home really.

    However its Apple's 7" tablet rumour that would worry me more, a lot of people bought the PB because of its size, if there was a 7" iPad then a lot of people would buy that instead.
    ChrisM - I think you've hit the nail on the head here. If the iPad2 does hit that price point, it's almost disposable tech and noone will think twice about buying one. It would be hard to justify not owning one to be honest!

    The 7" form factor of the PB is better for me that the current iPad size. My girlfriend has an iPad, and evem though she's a girl with a bag, she has commented that the tablet isn't as portable as she would like. A 7" iPad would make a decision that much harder.

    I'm not sure about the logic of releasing an LTE/3G version of the PB, particuarly when OS2 hits (presuming that it functions the same way as a 'berry with push email/notifications etc). If I had that, I wouldn't have a smart handset because the PB would fulfill that need, and I'd just have a (non)feature phone for texting. Why would I pay twice for BIS?

    I really enjoy my PB, especially the way it functions alongside my 9800. I wouldn't replace it now whilst it is working - there is nothing that fits my needs and usage better.

    But (and I am disappointed to say it) I can see it being put out to pasture, unless there is a big uptake of hardware in 2012, and the commensurate upturn in 'consumer' apps and functionality.

    My personal tablet for 2012 is most definitely my PB though!
    01-05-12 03:56 AM
  22. tharrison4815's Avatar
    I hope they don't make thw PB2 exclusively 10". I would really really like 8" though. I think it would make a huge difference (31% increase in screen area) without making the device much larger (just reduce the frame size slightly).
    kbz1960 likes this.
    01-05-12 04:18 AM
  23. eorian's Avatar
    i want Microsd card, 3G or 4G, dualcore A15 on PB2 and more more game HD for PB
    01-05-12 08:40 AM
  24. kbz1960's Avatar
    I totally agree with this post. Rim should focus on their phones first. Had they done that, they wouldn't be in this position. I especially agree with the bolded section. Anyone with any business sense would agree that this is the current direction that they need to head toward. Rim has had a lot of growing pains by trying to grow and expand their brand. It is time to call it quits and scale back.
    You are wrong. The playbook is getting the OS ready for the phones. How well do you think RIM would be doing now if the playbook was a phone? They would all ready be dead. Because of the playbook when they do release the phones they will be more stable and will have ready apps for them. Believe all you want. It was that or no tablet or QNX phone for at least another year or longer.
    01-05-12 09:33 AM
  25. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    TB, just because QNX is RIM's core does not mean that the PB is. RIM has lots of reasons to drop the PB. First, they should have never got into the business in the first place. Second, it has done nothing but lose them money, reputation, and momentum for more important projects...
    I'd agree were it not for two things. First, if the Playbook was a horrible product, then it would be harming RIM just by being in the product lineup. That's not the case here. The Playbook is a very good product that suffered from a comically-mismanaged launch. RIM still has a chance to rehabilitate the Playbook brand, IF (and, yes, it's a big "if") they manage to wow people with OS 2.0. Remember, there's WAAAAAY better developer support now than there was on launch, and Android developers are already busy getting their stuff into App World. Throw in native PIM, and maybe something special in the interface from TAT, and you not only appeal to new customers, but you surprise and delight all the existing owners.

    The second reason I disagree is simple: 80-95% of any engineering work on the tablet will apply to the BB10 phones anyway. It doesn't take a lot of effort to stay in the tablet market for RIM, so to me it makes little sense for them to leave it.

    I'll admit, I have high hopes for CES. It's an uphill climb for RIM right now, but I believe they actually are capable of pulling this off.
    01-05-12 11:25 AM
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