12-26-11 09:43 PM
36 12
tools
  1. xoenik's Avatar
    Cascades, OS2, such things seem promising. But I can't help but think of what it must have been like when the PB first came out. Do you guys think OS2 will really do such? I would hope so but I also feel that we should get developers now
    12-25-11 06:07 PM
  2. Unsure2's Avatar
    The picture I get from this and similar threads as to why developer enthusiasm has been lacking--and please correct me if I'm wrong, as I would like to get a handle on this--is:

    Even with 750,000 or so Playbooks sold (before the firesale), the user base just was not large enough to attract much developer attention.

    RIM failed to provide software development tools for QNX comparable to what is readily available for Android and iOS.

    RIM placed hurdles in the way of developers, including requiring fees not required by Google and Apple.

    RIM has been rejecting apps, without satisfying developers as to why their apps are rejected.

    It's difficult to understand why RIM has not supported developers more. Even the best hardware is useless without software; and given that RIM had to know it would be difficult to popularize a new OS in the face of established competition, you'd think RIM would have rolled out the red carpet and given developers every possible incentive to write versions of their applications for QNX. Well, maybe RIM had/has some master plan of which we're unaware...
    12-25-11 07:45 PM
  3. gord888's Avatar
    The picture I get from this and similar threads as to why developer enthusiasm has been lacking--and please correct me if I'm wrong, as I would like to get a handle on this--is:

    Even with 750,000 or so Playbooks sold (before the firesale), the user base just was not large enough to attract much developer attention.

    RIM failed to provide software development tools for QNX comparable to what is readily available for Android and iOS.

    RIM placed hurdles in the way of developers, including requiring fees not required by Google and Apple.

    RIM has been rejecting apps, without satisfying developers as to why their apps are rejected.

    It's difficult to understand why RIM has not supported developers more. Even the best hardware is useless without software; and given that RIM had to know it would be difficult to popularize a new OS in the face of established competition, you'd think RIM would have rolled out the red carpet and given developers every possible incentive to write versions of their applications for QNX. Well, maybe RIM had/has some master plan of which we're unaware...
    BlackBerry has been a platform that always makes money - may not be a lot, but you'll get some returns. The reason being that it's easier to stand out in a crowd of 15,000 versus 500,000.

    If you're willing to put in (a lot of) extra effort, the BB platform is understated and totally worth while for any developer for one reason: you can charge more. There's a total lack of apps, anything that is half decent will be paid for - even at $0.99 - $4.99. Even ad supported apps get decent revenue.

    In terms of paying for development, Google charged $25 last time i checked, Apple $99 per year, and RIM was $200 for 20 submissions to App World (it was free for a while to get more developers). The charge up front is a way of ensuring you're going to write at least an ok app - if you're $200 in the red, you'll at least want a decent app to make your investment back.

    RIM hasn't completely rejected my apps before - they provided good feedback as to what i needed to change to pass their conformance. I always had one contact which returned my emails promptly. It wasn't a bad experience dealing with App World submissions - but he recently quit and now i have a new guy. The hardest part was being Canadian - damn near impossible to get paid out.

    The main turn off for me was the API and their development tools. They just weren't very good - there wasn't a quick and easy way to get up and running. Starting PB development took me a full day to write out all the batch files, read their docs, and get my basic code to compile and build to the PB. It was a bit of a headache, but i can understand why it would put-off a lot of would-be developers. I'm currently using webworks API, but i wish i had more control - Webworks is very naked in what it can do but at least i can code everything in VS2010 and build out to Ripple.
    12-25-11 08:03 PM
  4. app_Developer's Avatar
    @unsure2 for us is it first and foremost the developer tools. We can't justify a project that would require *more* effort for a smaller audience. At worst, it needs to be the same effort as iPad or Android.

    Smaller market comes with less competition so the million user figure isn't that bad for certain apps. Obviously, some of our clients think differently.

    The fees don't matter, I really don't think that is a serious deterrent. And it's offset easily by the fact that you can buy test devices for $200.
    12-25-11 08:17 PM
  5. xoenik's Avatar
    I'm starting to form an idea... with root, it may be possible to run unsigned code. While this is a security issue, it would open the door for some people on the edge, similar to the release of Installer and Cydia on the iphone. Perhaps a hackathon/contest to see who can make the best apps for playbook in that way?
    KermEd likes this.
    12-25-11 10:07 PM
  6. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    I'm starting to form an idea... with root, it may be possible to run unsigned code. While this is a security issue, it would open the door for some people on the edge, similar to the release of Installer and Cydia on the iphone. Perhaps a hackathon/contest to see who can make the best apps for playbook in that way?
    IMHO, you are looking for solutions for problems that do not exist.There ere are absolutely no barriers, monetary or otherwise, to anyone writing an app, signing it with officially sanctioned keys and pushing it to devices placed in development mode by their owners. The required tools are included in the SDK which is free to download and use. If you make a quality app that you think that people would buy, why would you not get it approved by App World and make it available to a waiting customer base?

    The installer you talk about may be of interest to a limited number of end users who might want to put pirated copies of my software on their devices. It may also be exploited by rogue developers who want to load questionable software on your device. Either way, I really don't think that this is the type of "support" that would attract large numbers of reputable developers to the platform.
    app_Developer likes this.
    12-25-11 10:42 PM
  7. lynntarbox's Avatar
    IMHO, you are looking for solutions for problems that do not exist.There ere are absolutely no barriers, monetary or otherwise, to anyone writing an app, signing it with officially sanctioned keys and pushing it to devices placed in development mode by their owners. The required tools are included in the SDK which is free to download and use. If you make a quality app that you think that people would buy, why would you not get it approved by App World and make it available to a waiting customer base?

    The installer you talk about may be of interest to a limited number of end users who might want to put pirated copies of my software on their devices. It may also be exploited by rogue developers who want to load questionable software on your device. Either way, I really don't think that this is the type of "support" that would attract large numbers of reputable developers to the platform.
    agree on some points. there isn't even a big enough interest in the official app world, let alone try and bring in a secondary repository for apps. what would be the point of them?

    the advantage of cydia for iOS is that it allows developers to work outside the sandbox of the iOS api. apps like lockinfo and sbsettings would never be possible in the official app store.

    a version of 'installous' for playbook would be pointless since you can already sideload pirated apps onto the playbook anyway without even needing to root.
    12-26-11 12:16 AM
  8. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    agree on some points. there isn't even a big enough interest in the official app world, let alone try and bring in a secondary repository for apps. what would be the point of them?

    the advantage of cydia for iOS is that it allows developers to work outside the sandbox of the iOS api. apps like lockinfo and sbsettings would never be possible in the official app store.

    a version of 'installous' for playbook would be pointless since you can already sideload pirated apps onto the playbook anyway without even needing to root.
    Well it is nice to know that you agree with me on at least one thing, but I really don't understand your continual slagging of App World. Contrary to your message of despair, lots of people are finding my app and some even buy it. There are clear signs that the user base is growing day-by-day. App World certainly is no Android market place (which is probably a good thing) nor is it the Apple app store (and perhaps never will be) but RIM is making some progress in growing the market.

    No one would argue that the guys at the top are anywhere near approaching adequacy but is is likely (given my limited imagination) that they are stumbling toward a reasonable amount of success with respect to PB app world. It's another option for developers to make their apps available to the public, nothing more and nothing less. I am just happy to be in a position to make my modest offering available to those who make the "mistake" of choosing BlackBerry PlayBook. The fact that you seem to think I made a silly decision is neither here nor there in the way the universe is unfolding.
    12-26-11 08:42 AM
  9. Dapper37's Avatar
    Great thread, could it be some clearity emerging about whats needed, when its coming and that onces its here, we will see some sweet development for BB10. Lets face it, its started already. We just want more!
    12-26-11 09:13 AM
  10. ALToronto's Avatar
    As a non-programmer, I am really enjoying this discussion. Lynn, thank you for toning down your anti-PB rhetoric, it is much easier to read your posts when you use constructive rather than destructive criticism. Buzz, without your posts on this forum, I doubt I would have noticed your app in App World. I haven't bought it yet, but I will, and I look forward to using it when I take the kids camping next summer.

    It is enlightening to learn about both the technical and the bureaucratic hurdles that developers must overcome. I am encouraged that not all developers have been discouraged by the process, and some are striving to improve it or at least make the best of it (thank you, Buzz and App-developer). I hope there are more of you lurking on this forum.

    That said, have any developers considered collaborating with non-developers on creating, say, data analysis apps? I am a mathie, but I don't know javascript. If I create algorithms for data analysis, could someone write them up in js to create an app? I am sure I am not the only non-programming techie on this forum, perhaps we can use our collective minds to create some powerful apps?
    12-26-11 10:05 AM
  11. xoenik's Avatar
    So if the main problem is simply getting developers, how could we raise any good points, encourage the devs? I still think a hackathon would get some attention
    12-26-11 09:43 PM
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