[nievz]

It seems you didn't get to, but next time you get a hold of this beast, can you please check if there's already an equalizer for the music player? it breaks my heart to see it the way it is now. Also, please check for new features as well while you're at it.

Is there a native file explorer too?

[Saiga]

So, even though my wife's phone was not associated any phone number or any service for nearly 2 days and her BBM still functioned via wifi?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

BBM uses BIS or BES. You have to pay for those. If your wife has a deactivated BB that still has BBM then she is very lucky, because it means RIM hasn't gotten around to closing here BIS account yet.

Google it, none of this is new. Lots of people have tried it. Someone in this thread just got done trying it. If she still has BBM she has better luck than I do. With all of my wifi phones the second I kill service BBM is gone, I know because I have tried it on everyone of them.

[123berryaddicted]

Again, BBM requires a BB data plan before it will work. Once you have a BB data plan you can use it with wifi only. But if you have a BB that has wifi but doesn't have a BB data plan than you cannot use BBM.

The only way to possibly get around this is for RIM not to shut off your BIS/BES account. Someone here suspended a line and his BBM still worked. But the second he put a new non BB phone on that line his BIS account was closed and he could no longer use BBM.

Yes, currently RIM's policy is (with the carriers in mind) that bb handsets need a data plan in order to access bbm (bis).

This does not have to be the case with playbook.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[TBone4eva]

I think what you are going to see is a move away from PIN based services to BBID based services. With all of your services intergrated to your BBID, it won't matter what BB device you use, you'll still have your core services available. Will that mean that it will allow some people to jump ship to another phone, yes, but they will still have to own a BlackBerry product to stay plugged into BBM. However, if RIM plays its cards right and the intergration is seamless, people will stay. RIM can't save itself by closing itself off from the rest of the world and building walls around BBM. It's like with iMessage and facetime, you can leave the iPhone and still use the iPod Touch or iPad to stay in touch with other Apple users.

[Saiga]

And one more point.... Bbm competitors are going to be making instant messaging apps for the playbook, the only reason they haven't been yet released (IM+) is because RIM has blocked them . Why would RIM want a competitor to get the head start on them before THEY RELEASE BBM for playbook.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I agree with you completely, it is time for RIM to do something about the BBM clones. I honestly hope they do make the wifi only PB get native BBM. I would love it and I agree it would help sell a lot of PBs. If they were to do it I would probably go to wp7 and still have a PB for all my BB stuff. It would be awesome, but for some reason I just don't see them doing it though. Also if they were going to do that why haven't they told anyone about it?

[InfinitiGuy]

First of all. Let's be clear - the technology is there for bbm to work on wifi only.

Second. You're all assuming RIM would have to charge for this wifi only BIS stuff - which probably will not be the case. I seriously don't think RIM will be losing money if they give this service for free to wifi only pb owners, that would make ABSOLUTELY NO business sense whatsoever... Mind you, given RIMs last 12 months of business sense, I wouldn't put it past them - lol

WHEN... And I say when . RIM releases BBM for playbook, THIS feature ALONE will sell hundreds of thousands, if not millions of playbooks - they would be utter fools to:

A. Not release it on wifi only
B. Charge for it on wifi only

And let me say again - the technology is there.

And one more point.... Bbm competitors are going to be making instant messaging apps for the playbook, the only reason they haven't been yet released (IM+) is because RIM has blocked them . Why would RIM want a competitor to get the head start on them before THEY RELEASE BBM for playbook.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I agree, BBM should be made freely available on the PB over wifi. At least RIM should do this while BBM still matters as competitive products are being released for other platforms and will diminish the need for people to hold onto BBM. I would go one step further and make BBM available on other platforms and charge $3-$4 per month. If you use a BB or PB, you get BBM included and for other platforms, you pay a small fee. I can see many opting for paying for an unlimited BBM plan on their IOS or Android device vs paying for a SMS plan.

[JDukeOSBB]

BBM uses BIS or BES. You have to pay for those. If your wife has a deactivated BB that still has BBM then she is very lucky, because it means RIM hasn't gotten around to closing here BIS account yet.

Google it, none of this is new. Lots of people have tried it. Someone in this thread just got done trying it. If she still has BBM she has better luck than I do. With all of my wifi phones the second I kill service BBM is gone, I know because I have tried it on everyone of them.

Back a couple of years ago, a RIM apparently rep stated the following:

"You no longer need a data plan with the BlackBerry handset to get email or use BBMessenger as long as you are connected to W-Fi...."

Maybe they changed their mind... Who knows

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[MousePad]

Yeah I agree with you and the other posters. Not believing this for a second. If RIM gave the wifi only PB BBM than they would give people a way out of their BB phones without them losing BBM. How many people constantly say "I am with BB just for BBM"?

If RIM were to do that then people would be able to drop BB phones all together, get a Android with mobile hotspot and a PB and have pretty much everything a BB owner gets without paying for BIS. I don't think RIM is going to cannibalize BIS subscriptions just to sell more PBs.

I also don't think RIM is willing to lose revenue by giving us a way to get BBM for free...

The PB does have a separate PIN though, suggesting that it has all that's needed to be identified in BBM by itself... I do adhere also to the concept of merging two contact lists through BBID.

I submit this: What keeps RIM from only authorizing your PB BBM instance if you also have a smartphone BBM instance in your BBID? PB PINs must be in a certain range... Doing a validation is a simple matter when it comes to authorizing BBM on the PB...

I think that's the way RIM will play it out, if BBM is to be native on the PB...

[Economist101]

I also don't think RIM is willing to lose revenue by giving us a way to get BBM for free...

If the service is still only compatible with RIM products, then they're not really giving it away for free. However, the above explains why they've never brought BBM to other platforms, since then they really would be giving it away for free.

[lawguyman]

If the service is still only compatible with RIM products, then they're not really giving it away for free. However, the above explains why they've never brought BBM to other platforms, since then they really would be giving it away for free.

Two options: (2) Charge for the App or (2) charge for the service. There are probably other ways.

[_StephenBB81]

First of all. Let's be clear - the technology is there for bbm to work on wifi only.

Second. You're all assuming RIM would have to charge for this wifi only BIS stuff - which probably will not be the case. I seriously don't think RIM will be losing money if they give this service for free to wifi only pb owners, that would make ABSOLUTELY NO business sense whatsoever... Mind you, given RIMs last 12 months of business sense, I wouldn't put it past them - lol

WHEN... And I say when . RIM releases BBM for playbook, THIS feature ALONE will sell hundreds of thousands, if not millions of playbooks - they would be utter fools to:

A. Not release it on wifi only
B. Charge for it on wifi only

And let me say again - the technology is there.

And one more point.... Bbm competitors are going to be making instant messaging apps for the playbook, the only reason they haven't been yet released (IM+) is because RIM has blocked them . Why would RIM want a competitor to get the head start on them before THEY RELEASE BBM for playbook.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

This is assuming RIM hosts independent BIS, the cost for them would be developing and deploying a playbookwifi.balckberry.net BIS to register pins against and support currently they leave that to the carriers

your device PIN is registered to a Carrier BIS, like rogers.blackberry.net or sprint.blackberry.net etc, the Carrier maintains the hardware and costs for the service.


YES RIM COULD make it happen, but in a cost savings mind set, setting up a new datacentre / service without getting any income from it would not be a smart move

[MousePad]

If the service is still only compatible with RIM products, then they're not really giving it away for free. However, the above explains why they've never brought BBM to other platforms, since then they really would be giving it away for free.

Let me put it this way, then... Would you rather sell a device for one time only, or charge a monthly rate for a service?

I think RIM would be much more interested in having you pay each month for BES/BIS than, selling you a PB with a PIN usable on BBM for free, making a little more money but only once...

I say "a little more money", because, between paying even just 10$ a month on a 3-year contract for example, that's 300$ in their pockets... That's probably the same or more than they earn on each PB sale...

EDIT: Yeah, I said that they would make "a little more money" selling you a PB, then saying the opposite a little later... I saw my contradiction... But you get the idea...

[Siiid]

then give us Msn or Skype, those are perfectly fine chat programs for free. and theyre available on ALL other mobile devices.

[anon(823957)]

This thread quickly turned into a debate over native BBM (which wasn't really what I intended out of it), and while the PB I looked at didn't have any contacts in it, we were able to open it up and look at the application without having to be bridged to a phone. The application certainly exists and while I'm not exactly sure how they are going to be organizing it from a technical perspective (in terms of BIS/BES/whatever), its something we're going to have to wait and see for ourselves.

[_StephenBB81]

This thread quickly turned into a debate over native BBM (which wasn't really what I intended out of it), and while the PB I looked at didn't have any contacts in it, we were able to open it up and look at the application without having to be bridged to a phone. The application certainly exists and while I'm not exactly sure how they are going to be organizing it from a technical perspective (in terms of BIS/BES/whatever), its something we're going to have to wait and see for ourselves.

I am excited to see how they do it,.

I certainly will miss a few of my BBM contacts being always available who have said that once the PlayBook has BBM native they will be moving to Windows Phones, so they'll have limited BBM access but wont miss out on BBM organizations.


I was concerned with the "iOS" like comment, I am still not sure I like the idea of elimination of the tabs, we'll see when it happens

[anon(823957)]

I am excited to see how they do it,.

I certainly will miss a few of my BBM contacts being always available who have said that once the PlayBook has BBM native they will be moving to Windows Phones, so they'll have limited BBM access but wont miss out on BBM organizations.


I was concerned with the "iOS" like comment, I am still not sure I like the idea of elimination of the tabs, we'll see when it happens

Its a good look for it, it was the first thing I noticed but it works on the homescreen. Its kind of scary how much the animations look like iOS though when dragging and dropping for folders. Like "potential lawsuit scary" the way Apple's been acting lately.

[_StephenBB81]

Its a good look for it, it was the first thing I noticed but it works on the homescreen. Its kind of scary how much the animations look like iOS though when dragging and dropping for folders. Like "potential lawsuit scary" the way Apple's been acting lately.

DAMN I wish they would open up QNX/PlayBook to theme developers, I want someone to make a Theme to look NOTHING like iOS I can't think of a single aspect of iOS I enjoy, I don't want it's look/feel on my PlayBook

[dabomb54321]

Just tried out the latest build tonight, looks epic! No more tabs, everything is as Kevin predicted, laid out as iOS. You hold over an icon to move it/drag it onto another to create a folder. Android marketplace is no longer a separate icon, but rather built into App world, it takes a special code to pull them up. Oh, and contrary to what I said before, you can now add any BBM pin to the *NATIVE* BBM app! Not just Playbook to Playbook, so I'm glad someone was listening.

Can't wait for this update!

I was just wondering if you happen to know if a native skype app is being built for blackberry playbook since the native video chat app is pretty much useless since the blackberry playbook didn't "catch on" like RIM intenended it to. Thanks a lot in advance for an answer

[Economist101]

Let me put it this way, then... Would you rather sell a device for one time only, or charge a monthly rate for a service?

That depends on the device and the service revenue, as well as my cost of providing the service. If the numbers are identical, the upfront is better. If the service revenue figure is high enough, the equation changes.

I think RIM would be much more interested in having you pay each month for BES/BIS than, selling you a PB with a PIN usable on BBM for free, making a little more money but only once...

Probably so, but since they're having trouble selling their product, it's not as though the latter option is viable here.

Also, let's look at the facts. The total RIM subscriber base keeps growing, and has been growing for 7-8 years. Yet their revenue has been declining lately as unit sales have dropped, which says to me that the profit from software services doesn't really compare in a meaningful way to hardware profits. As an example, in September 2010, RIM reported nearly $800 million in profit with 50 million subscribers. This last quarter, despite more than 70 million subscribers, RIM reported profit of less than $400 million.

[123berryaddicted]

That depends on the device and the service revenue, as well as my cost of providing the service. If the numbers are identical, the upfront is better. If the service revenue figure is high enough, the equation changes.



Probably so, but since they're having trouble selling their product, it's not as though the latter option is viable here.

Also, let's look at the facts. The total RIM subscriber base keeps growing, and has been growing for 7-8 years. Yet their revenue has been declining lately as unit sales have dropped, which says to me that the profit from software services doesn't really compare in a meaningful way to hardware profits. As an example, in September 2010, RIM reported nearly $800 million in profit with 50 million subscribers. This last quarter, despite more than 70 million subscribers, RIM reported profit of less than $400 million.

Perhaps they spent a wack of cash on developers for their v2.0 pb release... Would be nice, but I kind of doubt it... Its just not like RIM to do something like that... I have a bad feeling all v2.0 will be is v1.0 with the missing features such as email, contacts and calendar... Hmmm... What it should have been... Without anything that'll "make us say sweet"... Let's hope I'm wrong...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[_StephenBB81]

Also, let's look at the facts. The total RIM subscriber base keeps growing, and has been growing for 7-8 years. Yet their revenue has been declining lately as unit sales have dropped, which says to me that the profit from software services doesn't really compare in a meaningful way to hardware profits. As an example, in September 2010, RIM reported nearly $800 million in profit with 50 million subscribers. This last quarter, despite more than 70 million subscribers, RIM reported profit of less than $400 million.

Profit margin from Software is greater
but Revenue from hardware is greater,
and it is profit from revenue we are measuring there, not profit margin.

that said I don't disagree, RIM's that Hardware IS where RIM should be focused on the bulk of their income, they need people buying mass hardware volumes, then offering services that can have fee's attached. but hardware with respectable margins will be what sustains them.
The PlayBook doesn't have that Margin base yet

[sookster54]

Um... laid out like iOS?

[grover5]

DAMN I wish they would open up QNX/PlayBook to theme developers, I want someone to make a Theme to look NOTHING like iOS I can't think of a single aspect of iOS I enjoy, I don't want it's look/feel on my PlayBook

I agree. I do think folders are long overdue but I'm not interested in an iOS interface.

[blkrx7]

Maybe you could tell us if they finally added a BlueTooth Profile for wireless stereo head phones.

Thx

It is. Though either it's not 'quite' ready, or my BT stereo headset's a little grumpy as I was getting some 'pop's' and 'crackles' on connecting. I'll bet on the former. It was connected as A2DP.

And, I can confirm kb2755's looking at the same icon's I am (BBM Included). It looks very much like IOS's organization of icons, but i'll take the functionality of being able to move them around a little more freely.

Forgot to try and find some android apps, sorry!

[123berryaddicted]

This is assuming RIM hosts independent BIS, the cost for them would be developing and deploying a playbookwifi.balckberry.net BIS to register pins against and support currently they leave that to the carriers

your device PIN is registered to a Carrier BIS, like rogers.blackberry.net or sprint.blackberry.net etc, the Carrier maintains the hardware and costs for the service.


YES RIM COULD make it happen, but in a cost savings mind set, setting up a new datacentre / service without getting any income from it would not be a smart move

true true. but seriously.... if telus, wind, sprint, etc etc can handle this?? then common... so can RIM, and probably at a fraction of the cost (what it costs the carriers). Backend stuff is where RIM shines.... as far as I'm concerned (and im sure we all agree here) putting bbm on the wifi only pb would be a win-win for RIM, this alone WILL sell playbooks.... i just can't believe they haven't done this already.... i suggest that we are a mere few weeks away from seeing it happen though... ok... maybe a mere couple months... but still. Make it happen RIM, we know you can!!!

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