05-29-13 10:31 PM
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  1. T_Touch's Avatar
    I do understand your point, but QNX 2 is not gonna be released until, let's say, mid-to-end of next year, while iOS 5 will come out this year, and probably iOS 5.5 on the iPad 3 (if not iOS 6) will be out by the time QNX 2 is released. Therefore the comparison of QNX and iOS 5 (even though not released yet), is fair.
    That would be incorrect. Your rationale does not lead to your conclusion. To merely state that there will be a future OS by one brand and not the other simply does not justify a fair comparison of that future possibility to the real thing now. If so, (by your logic), I can say that since QNX 2 will come out later than iOS 5, it will blow Apple brand away.
    And I never said RIM isn't gonna improve QNX - that would be foolish to say and indeed nonsense. I don't know where you did that get out of my posting.
    It is nonsense and that's why I'm bringing it to your attention. No, you didn't say it in words but implicit in your argument is that Apple OS is going to make improvements that will be better than QNX - well sure. But that means very little as RIM will make improvements as well. In order for your point to carry any weight what-so-ever, you'd have to disregard that fact.
    dodger_moore likes this.
    05-16-11 10:35 PM
  2. Foreverup's Avatar
    I don't have time to read all the posts but if believe what Kevin says in the podcast about QNX playing Andriod apps and BB phone apps. That they pretty much have to run the full version of the OS to run the apps in the app player. Now your playbook could pretty much being running 3 different OS at the same time BB phone, Andriod and QNX handling them all. People now that's power what OS in mobile universe can do that right now. That would have to be a giant leap forward everyone else to start doing that.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-17-11 04:47 AM
  3. s219's Avatar
    I don't have time to read all the posts but if believe what Kevin says in the podcast about QNX playing Andriod apps and BB phone apps. That they pretty much have to run the full version of the OS to run the apps in the app player. Now your playbook could pretty much being running 3 different OS at the same time BB phone, Andriod and QNX handling them all. People now that's power what OS in mobile universe can do that right now. That would have to be a giant leap forward everyone else to start doing that.
    The PB already uses up roughly half of its memory just booting up into QNX, and there wouldn't be margin to load other OSes fully. But thankfully, that's not how it would work, and not how anyone should want it to work.

    Remember that Android apps must be repackaged and submitted to RIM for sale on App World before they will be available to the PlayBook. You won't be able to just grab any old Android app from the app market and run it. Once the app is on your device, it will basically be linking to and loading/using Android libraries. Those libraries will live on top of a layer that provides limited connection with underlying hardware features (not all of them, but the important ones). It's not actually Android OS -- it's more like a little sandbox with all the material and toys needed to run most Android apps.
    05-17-11 08:02 AM
  4. CrackBerry Kevin's Avatar
    Honestly, I think between QNX, TAT, Torch, etc. RIM has all the tools and technologies they need in their portfolio to not get blown away. They're setting themselves up with a platform to build off of for the next decade and beyond and they've done an amazing job the past two years buying up the pieces they need to future proof themselves.

    RIM's challenge is integration and execution. They don't yet have a product that reflects the true potential of all the bits and pieces they have, and the changes they are making take time and the competition isn't standing still.

    I don't think anybody in the space now... Apple, Android, etc. is going to release an OS update and RIM will go "oh no, we're screwed"... I really think whatever anybody else builds RIM can now build equal or better with all the pieces they have. The big thing is them hustling to finish playing catch up, and then putting themselves into a position to be the first on the market with awesome new features and hardware. It'll take some time... but I think they'll get there.
    Fret Madden and sf49ers like this.
    05-17-11 09:14 AM
  5. 1812dave's Avatar
    How is this thread, posted as it was in the PB forum, NOT a troll?? Maybe I should log into the Apple iPad forum and sing the praises of the PB. oh wait, my post would be removed in less than 15 minutes, by one of Job's minions. (not that I would blame them, if I were to be so crass as to post troll-bait there)
    05-17-11 09:39 AM
  6. Schlymer's Avatar
    I think that most people have no idea what they have just bought with the playbook and its full potential. I just found one more thing it does that apple products don't. You can actually work on the playbook, while you are syncing content to or from it to your computer. The technology and forward thinking that went into this build is still amazing me with new little surprises daily. To be fair, I am sure that ipad2 had some nice features and surprises, but this is RIMs first tablet and it blows the ipad2 away out of the box. Apple may be a giant in terms of being the number one brand in the world, but it doesn't take long for things to change. The race to the top is RIM's to lose. Like Kevin said they have all the pieces to be in the game. And I like the cards we are all holding.
    05-17-11 09:41 AM
  7. Fret Madden's Avatar
    Honestly, I think between QNX, TAT, Torch, etc. RIM has all the tools and technologies they need in their portfolio to not get blown away. They're setting themselves up with a platform to build off of for the next decade and beyond and they've done an amazing job the past two years buying up the pieces they need to future proof themselves.

    RIM's challenge is integration and execution. They don't yet have a product that reflects the true potential of all the bits and pieces they have, and the changes they are making take time and the competition isn't standing still.

    I don't think anybody in the space now... Apple, Android, etc. is going to release an OS update and RIM will go "oh no, we're screwed"... I really think whatever anybody else builds RIM can now build equal or better with all the pieces they have. The big thing is them hustling to finish playing catch up, and then putting themselves into a position to be the first on the market with awesome new features and hardware. It'll take some time... but I think they'll get there.
    Just look to Intel/AMD and nVidia/ATI for immediate evidence of this, plus the myriad other companies constantly getting behind, then ahead of their competition (if they stay viable). Years ago AMD surprised Intel, had a good run, then Intel got their feet back under them and put themselves back in the game.

    Apple's real strength isn't what they're releasing at any given time, it's that they know who their customers are and who they want to market to. When RIM gets this worked out things could get very interesting.
    05-17-11 02:38 PM
  8. minnick's Avatar
    Blah. This thread so quickly deteriorated it's crazy! At this point in time, both sides arguments are pure speculation so neither Apple or Rim fans can damningly say anything
    05-17-11 03:39 PM
  9. cjterminator's Avatar
    Is iOS5 still have draconian data lockouts which prevents me from retrieving MY files and music from my iOS device on a different computer than the one I use to manage my device? Will it still require me to wipe the device every time I have to reinstall my notebook's OS?

    I thought so... This is the reason why I will NEVER use an Apple device for personal use (due to my work, I have to develop on the darn things).

    I have customers who lost years of data from their phones after their machines (hardware failure) crashed irreparably. Due to Apple's ridiculous decisions, they had to wipe their phones clean if they wanted to use iTunes for their purchases again. Apple's support response? Tough luck. Heck, those same customers are AMAZED that I can use my 9800 as a USB MSD.

    So please, blow me away with more draconian data lockouts and dystopian policies. Remember where Apple liberated the people from the dystopia? Apple has now become the dystopia.
    Great Point!!. My primary reason for not using Apple products.
    05-17-11 04:21 PM
  10. ADGrant's Avatar
    Just because Mach is a microkernel, doesn't mean that it will behave like QNX. QNX is a realtime operating system, Mach is not.

    All the other mobile OS'es are capable of some sort of multitasking. It just that if they tried to play a video in the background while you launch an app in the foreground --- the video would stutter in the background.

    You can have a desktop computer doing full multitasking --- and still come out with the video stuttering in the background whenever you tried to launch a word processor in the foreground, or your anti-virus program starts a scan in the background.
    I am not sure how useful playing a video in the background really is but it could be done without stuttering in any modern OS if the background app was given a high enough priority. However, the OS on most end user devices is configured to prioritize the application the user is actually using at the time.

    QNX is a great OS and RIM certainly needed one but it is not some sort of secret weapon.
    05-18-11 10:06 AM
  11. npunk42's Avatar
    You know what? QNX2 is going to "blow away" ios5, yeah, and the cheeseburger "blows away", the chicken club sandwich, and the migraine "blows away" the toothache, and the brown recluse spider "blows away" the back widow, perky ta-tas "blow away" tight bootys. Hahahaha!
    Jeeze. You dont like RIM stuff, get something you like, be happy, while you can, cause something is coming, and its going to "blow you away", hahaha!
    05-18-11 10:52 AM
  12. sk8er_tor's Avatar
    My question is what the heck is iOS 5? The next Apple phone is going to be nothing but an iPhone 4S. They won't be moving to 5 for some time still.
    05-18-11 10:58 AM
  13. DougFNJ's Avatar
    Competition is GOOD. Competitors improving their products keeps everyone pushing better hardware and software and this creates a win for the consumer in the form of better devices at competitive prices.

    How is this thread, posted as it was in the PB forum, NOT a troll?? Maybe I should log into the Apple iPad forum and sing the praises of the PB. oh wait, my post would be removed in less than 15 minutes, by one of Job's minions. (not that I would blame them, if I were to be so crass as to post troll-bait there)
    If you read the entire post by the OP, you would see a fairly balanced insight. Should he had just sung the praises of RIM and the Playbook and ignored that any competing product exists? And if they deleted this thread, wouldn't that make Crackberry a site of Blackberry minions? Don't be a minion Other opinions about other products are acceptable....even here.

    My question is what the heck is iOS 5? The next Apple phone is going to be nothing but an iPhone 4S. They won't be moving to 5 for some time still.
    The hardware is currently iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4. There is speculation the next device will be either as you said iPhone 4S or possibly iPhone 5. The software version is different. They don't necessarily release IOS 5 when iPhone 5 releases. And IOS 5 will most likely work just fine on iPhone 4 devices and possibly iPhone 3GS devices.

    Hope that may clear it up, it appeared you may had been confused by the hardware and software differences, if not I apologize.
    05-18-11 11:19 AM
  14. aawilson's Avatar
    If they come out with iOS 5 and it has gestures for closing and sliding between open apps, like the PB, which seems like they are trying to do given the features showing up in recent developers iOS versions, it still won't blow QNX away. Even if it has flash support and true multitasking, it's only a tie at best. Apple has a pretty good head start in the touch screen device arena, but they will never cave in to standards, like web fidelity and cross platform cables, I mean the first QNX RIM tablet blows away iOS 1, 2, 3, and 4, in a lot of opinions. I mean I'll be a little impressed if you can actually see two screens open and moving at the same time in iOS 5, not blown away.
    05-18-11 11:20 AM
  15. takeo's Avatar
    If they come out with iOS 5 and it has gestures for closing and sliding between open apps, like the PB, which seems like they are trying to do given the features showing up in recent developers iOS versions, it still won't blow QNX away. Even if it has flash support and true multitasking, it's only a tie at best. Apple has a pretty good head start in the touch screen device arena, but they will never cave in to standards, like web fidelity and cross platform cables, I mean the first QNX RIM tablet blows away iOS 1, 2, 3, and 4, in a lot of opinions. I mean I'll be a little impressed if you can actually see two screens open and moving at the same time in iOS 5, not blown away.
    Well, I figured that the PlayBook very fast runs out of memory and you can't start more than about 5 apps at the same time - even if they "pause" in the background. That's different on iOS where you can easily launch about 20 apps and nothings slows down. That, in my opinion, is something QNX has to learn somehow - I don't even know how Apple manages it exactly.

    And when I first saw the Android Honeycomb example of a quick-menu in the browser, by sliding a finger from the side into the screen, I figured that it can be "emulated" that the bezel is "touch-sensitive".
    05-21-11 05:11 AM
  16. narci's Avatar
    Well, I figured that the PlayBook very fast runs out of memory and you can't start more than about 5 apps at the same time - even if they "pause" in the background .
    How did you come to this conclusion? Mine runs fine with more then 5 apps open In showcase mode. No slow downs.




    As a side note, why are we discuSsing vaporware?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-21-11 10:09 AM
  17. xandermac's Avatar
    The successful ones will be the ones with the apps to back them up. Unfortunately that isn't RIM, never has been, appworld is overpriced and understocked and developers can't get their heads around the 5 device model apple has going on. I have 5 copies of the same bb app for my different phones because the developer doesn't allow multiple device installs. It's the blackberry devs that will ultimately make it fail. RIM are doing their part with a new OS and fantastic hardware but developers will ultimately decide their future.
    05-21-11 11:38 AM
  18. Skeevecr's Avatar
    Man you guys bashed the OP. He really did come with open arms not trying to bash QNX and it seemed he wanted to open that discussion.
    Maybe you read his post like that, but from the overly emotive title to the inaccuracies and unfounded hypotheses in the actual post itself this was just another troll who thought that being polite about the playbook in the first few lines would hide the actual trolling.
    05-21-11 12:01 PM
  19. Skeevecr's Avatar
    I do understand your point, but QNX 2 is not gonna be released until, let's say, mid-to-end of next year, while iOS 5 will come out this year, and probably iOS 5.5 on the iPad 3 (if not iOS 6) will be out by the time QNX 2 is released. Therefore the comparison of QNX and iOS 5 (even though not released yet), is fair.
    Actually what qnx does now vs what you have invented for what ios5 will do in the future does seem to be an extremely unfair comparison by any reasonable set of criteria and when called on it you begin to pluck random dates out of somewhere that on the grounds of politeness will say is thin air.
    05-21-11 12:06 PM
  20. Skeevecr's Avatar
    I agree with the OP that most people do not understand how the iPad multitasks, and that is more evident than ever in the comments here. The thing to remember is that iOS inherits from Mac OS X, so it is technically capable of full multitasking. Apple (wisely) limited this (as does Android) to be a more intelligent type of multitasking for mobile devices, where apps can request to use common types of background processes and tasks (ie, audio, navigation, downloads, and even an arbitrary 10 minutes of "task completion" to finish up pretty much whatever an app was doing when the user puts it into the background). In most cases, this is simply a smart approach to multitasking that is intended to provide a better user experience (more responsive foreground app behavior) and preserve battery life.
    Actually there are plenty of people on here who know how ios devices multitask from actually owning and using them and that "multitasking" is fine if you fit the narrow group of areas where apple's task-switching works well even if it is still controlled by a clunky and tacked on ui, but once you go out of that narrow area you go back to the single-tasking that most accuse them of e.g. take something fairly common like the marvel comics app where you have to sit and watch it download the comics rather than switching to something else and leaving it to finish in the background.


    Regardless of the lack of information, I would say that we should not underestimate Apple. They have a solid track record of leapfrogging the competition simply because the competition constantly benchmarks themselves against the Apple of the present, not thinking about what Apple has in store for the future. I see it happen over and over, year after year.
    Really, I thought their main strengths were making shiny new devices and in convincing people that adding stuff that others had already had for years (folders and multitasking) are suddenly vitally important features, but only in the way that apple has done them.
    05-21-11 12:17 PM
  21. Skeevecr's Avatar
    Blah. This thread so quickly deteriorated it's crazy!
    Seems doubtful, given the low starting point that the title and fanciful speculation of the OP in the first place.
    05-21-11 12:22 PM
  22. samab's Avatar
    Playbook's "showcase" mode is actually just an extension of something that is a lot more important --- all future Blackberry devices will have a single operating system running the baseband AND running all the higher level stuff.

    It is just an extension of --- however you play with the phone, you are not going to starve the baseband functions of CPU time and cause a drop call. It is now extending it to --- however you play with your Playbook (or future QNX-based handsets), you are not going to starve the video player of CPU time in the background to the point of stuttering the video playing in the background.

    Why is it important? Because Apple has to use 2 operating systems and Android has to use 3 operating systems to keep the phone from dropping calls.

    Apple uses a separate RTOS (ThreadX) to run the baseband chip --- Apple can afford to use the discrete chipset option (one application CPU running the iOS and a second baseband CPU running the cellular radio). But having a separate chip also robbed Apple of internal space for bigger batteries --- one of the reasons why Apple is promoting a new super-micro SIM card this past week.

    Android can't afford the discrete chipset option, so they went with the integrated Qualcomm chipset. But the problem is that now they have to run 3 different operating systems --- a hypervisor (most often OKL4) at the bottom, then on top of the hypervisor there is a Qualcomm RTOS for the baseband functions and linux/android for the higher level stuff. Just by having a hypervisor will cost Quadroid phones a 5-7% CPU penalty.

    Future blackberries will use an integrated chipset with a single operating system --- keeping manufacturing cost low, more room for larger battery and no CPU penalty.

    RIM basically admitted that all they did with the Android Player in the Playbook --- was just downloading the dalvik engine source code from Google's website, porting it to QNX and keeping the source code private as Apache 2.0 license allowed. We can probably assume that the speed difference between Android's official dalvik engine and RIM's ported dalvik engine will be negligible at best or no worse than the 5-7% hypervisor penalty that Android has to endure at worst. Therefore there is quite a chance that Android apps will run faster on the future blackberries than on an actual official android handset.
    05-21-11 02:19 PM
  23. blue81to's Avatar
    Does QNX on the playbook store apps the way that BBOS does? I can have 100+ apps on my iPhone. Can that be done on QNX?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-21-11 03:06 PM
  24. jaytee1o4's Avatar
    Propaganda
    05-22-11 11:34 AM
  25. takeo's Avatar
    How did you come to this conclusion? Mine runs fine with more then 5 apps open In showcase mode. No slow downs.




    As a side note, why are we discuSsing vaporware?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I had my browser open with one site loaded, BBM, Messages, Notes, Contacts - and wanted to open the calendar - couldn't make it.
    And any other app didn't start either - so it wasn't about bridge.
    05-23-11 10:36 PM
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