05-29-13 10:31 PM
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  1. T_Touch's Avatar
    Hi guys,

    First, I'm not an "Apple-addict". Some people here might think that straight away if one starts to talk in a good way about Apple products.
    [...]
    I hope to hear some opinions about my thoughts - I'm sure there are people here around this forum who have been with Blackberry since ages and can give me some insight, what they expect to happen. I'm very curious!!
    No offense, but your logic is flawed from the very start. You're comparing QNX to an operating system that is yet to be released and on top of that, you do so as if RIM will not also make improvements.

    It would be more logical for you to predict iOS 5 with QNX 2. Don't you think?
    05-16-11 05:39 AM
  2. takeo's Avatar
    No offense, but your logic is flawed from the very start. You're comparing QNX to an operating system that is yet to be released and on top of that, you do so as if RIM will not also make improvements.

    It would be more logical for you to predict iOS 5 with QNX 2. Don't you think?
    I do understand your point, but QNX 2 is not gonna be released until, let's say, mid-to-end of next year, while iOS 5 will come out this year, and probably iOS 5.5 on the iPad 3 (if not iOS 6) will be out by the time QNX 2 is released. Therefore the comparison of QNX and iOS 5 (even though not released yet), is fair.

    And I never said RIM isn't gonna improve QNX - that would be foolish to say and indeed nonsense. I don't know where you did that get out of my posting.
    05-16-11 06:13 AM
  3. eds817's Avatar
    I don't believe the iOS5 or 6 or 7 or any version will blow QNX out of the tablet water.

    PlayBook will never match up sales wise with the iPad and I don't believe RIM is trying to.

    RIM has its core loyal customer base who will support it and they are the ones RIM has to make happy. There are also a lot of non RIM/BlackBerry customer using the PlayBook who are happy with the product and will stick with it.

    Sure RIM could have done a better job with the first release of the PB OS but for many of us it wasn't as bad as some may want you to think. And it's only uphill from here.

    We all know that Apple has cruise ship loads of money and if they want to spend it in an attempt to compete with QNX or Android then let them. I would hope that Jobs is smarter then that and will spend the money to make a better product for his customers.

    I for one went back and forth for 2 weeks when I got my PlayBook as to whether or not I will keep it. I've kept it and have no regrets. I take it wherever I go and people are amazed with it.
    05-16-11 06:35 AM
  4. Deathcommand's Avatar
    I almost laughed. .

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-16-11 06:36 AM
  5. nike.stars's Avatar
    Yes, yes, and yes Takeo that's why I stepped in to "defend" you. Just like Apple fanboys, we have a lot of RIM fanboys here so you should know what kind of hornets nest you're stepping into. Markets dictate what companies do and if they survive regardless of what the consumer/fan thinks.

    I myself am one of the RIM fans but understand that getting emotionally attached to a company's ideologies and products and not coming to grips with the reality of their actions can get you burned. I really do hope RIM can shift the paradigm with QNX and the playbook as I love everything about it! Only time will tell though.
    i'm no RIM or apple fanboy, i own iphone4, 9780 and Playbook myself and i loved them all, i choose playbook over ipad because my hand get tired fast holding the ipad, playbook is more suitable

    however, please differentiate between discussion and debate, this thread title is obviously already kick the start and want us to think that A win vs B or B win vs A.

    If the OP want to start discussion about company future in terms of "investing", maybe the thread title should be more reflecting that, and boy, this thread is already in the wrong place to start because the OP want to see RIM vs Apple generally, not just specific in one product, here in "Playbook Subforum"
    05-16-11 06:44 AM
  6. ericlc2's Avatar
    TLDR...

    QNX is a new born and is no where near its a potential, if you want your crypads to compete with the big boys, step up to the plate and get flash then you'll have a chance. Till then get a grip.
    05-16-11 07:01 AM
  7. Thumbtyper's Avatar
    TLDR...

    QNX is a new born and is no where near its a potential, if you want your crypads to compete with the big boys, step up to the plate and get flash then you'll have a chance. Till then get a grip.
    It really is surprising to read people still try to tout flash as the future or the key even a key to a device's success. In 9 months since the ipad was released, flash video on the web has dropped from 95% down to 63%. This is just up until January 2011. With theIOS devices selling by the boatload, this extinction of flash will speed up faster. Nobody wants their content to be unviewable on IOS devices.

    But a more important reason flash is becoming extinct is because it is slow, buggy and a resource hog that isnt good on mobile devices. Even this board is full of proof of that.
    05-16-11 07:15 AM
  8. FineWolf's Avatar
    It really is surprising to read people still try to tout flash as the future or the key even a key to a device's success. In 9 months since the ipad was released, flash video on the web has dropped from 95% down to 63%. This is just up until January 2011. With theIOS devices selling by the boatload, this extinction of flash will speed up faster. Nobody wants their content to be unviewable on IOS devices.

    But a more important reason flash is becoming extinct is because it is slow, buggy and a resource hog that isnt good on mobile devices. Even this board is full of proof of that.
    I've actually done some benchmark tests between HTML5 Canvas Animations and Flash on a few Android devices (EVO 4G notably) and a pre-production WebOS 2.0 device for my employer. The detailed results are under NDA, but I can say this:

    I took the EXACT SAME 45 SECONDS LOOPING ANIMATION, made a version in Canvas2D/HTML5 and another in Flash. The two versions were pixel perfect. I rigged the phones so that the backlight never expired. Then, on full charge, compared the time the battery took to drain.

    Each animation version went through 6 battery cycles on each device in order to average out the results per device.

    On every single device, the device lasted longer using the Flash animation versus the Canvas2D version. Let me restate that: Flash had less of a battery drain than the equivalent animation using HTML5 technologies. I'm not talking mere minutes either. Close to an hour difference on the EVO.

    The answer as to why is pretty simple. Flash, when publishing to a SWF file, does most of the optimization for you and pre-compiles paths and vectors required for the animation. However, all that optimization and caching is left to the developer to do on the HTML5/Canvas2D side. Even with the manual optimizations in, the Flash version performed better than the Canvas2D version.
    Billy-X, minnick, kzeusr and 3 others like this.
    05-16-11 10:44 AM
  9. chasvs's Avatar
    Hi guys,

    First, I'm not an "Apple-addict". Some people here might think that straight away if one starts to talk in a good way about Apple products.

    But, to let you know the truth, I've been working for Apple more than a decade. I know their way of thinking and I can literally tell you every next step - I've been spending more than 15 years with the products of this company and know the lifecycles, etc.

    What I want to talk about here is a simple thought. I'm really really really impressed by RIM and it's QNX system for the Playbook. I enjoy using it a lot, even though it has major flaws still (webradio stream in different tab not playing, not enough apps (not a general OS problem), no bluetooth-audio profile support, battery meter inaccurate, flash very slow (except for video as it gets support by the graphic processor) etc.pp.).

    I have never seen a company release a first OS this polished after all, but I need to keep on thinking here.

    People especially in this forum have shown to me that they don't really know that the iPad is indeed capable of multitasking. Apps keep playing audio, data transfers don't get interrupted, websites load in the background, Skype calls don't get missed, etc. I don't really understand how come many here find the Playbooks multitasking more "efficient". As a matter of fact multitasking means that several tasks can be run at the same time, right? The iPad does that. Even though you can't visualize it, as only one app is always in front, and not being shown as "windows" like in QNX, you will never face an app stop it's desired function even though you switch apps. (short reminder, if you doubletap the iPads button, you can switch between apps).

    Therefore, except for flash, the iPad doesn't fall short on the QNX system.

    Nonetheless, the Playbook is eyecatching and I love the gestures - really remarkable of RIM to come up with a touch-sensitive bezel and implement it this well! (I was further impressed that it can actually tell if you only enter the screen diagonally with your finger coming from atop and shows only the battery-meter, clock etc. then)

    What I'm more or less worried about is now that even though RIM has done a remarkable job, Apple is gonna blow them away by about August this year. I estimate iOS 5 to be released the latest around that month.

    And if I think about iOS 5 --- guys, this iOS version is gonna be aimed at Android, QNX, WebOS etc. and I'm pretty sure it's gonna make all other OSs look "unpolished" even more.

    Therefore, I honestly would like to discuss what you think about it?! Please don't come up with the form factor of 7" - I have to agree that the Playbook is much more portable, but I want to talk about the OS.

    Do you believe RIM stands any chance?
    I even believe they are going to support Android apps because they know they won't ever be winning this "OS War" - because Android and iOS are just so much bigger. (in this case I really don't understand RIM - as soon as the Android player is out, developers won't think of developing for AppWorld... why should they? -- and whatever is it, the Android player most likely won't be multitasking capable in terms of running multiple apps at the same time and it will lack the speed of a native app, as it's being emulated)


    I hope to hear some opinions about my thoughts - I'm sure there are people here around this forum who have been with Blackberry since ages and can give me some insight, what they expect to happen. I'm very curious!!
    Maybe, just maybe someone on an Apple Forum would give a **** about this. But I fail to see the relevancy to this Forum.
    05-16-11 11:01 AM
  10. lorax1284's Avatar
    And I never said RIM isn't gonna improve QNX - that would be foolish to say and indeed nonsense. I don't know where you did that get out of my posting.
    RIM's OS deployment model is different than that of Apple: incremental improvement, not big releases / announcements. I think the comparison of how QNX will improve over the short term should take that into consideration.

    PlayBook will never match up sales wise with the iPad and I don't believe RIM is trying to.
    Another significant factor that is often left out of these discussions: RIM's business model is growth by increasing the size of the pie, not by getting a bigger piece of an existing set-sized pie. RIM's investor outlook IS relative to other players for whom market share growth is their key data point... which is fair, because when you are an investor are you going to choose to invest in a company who is going to grow, but not grow as fast as another company?

    To a certain extent, there is some corporate psychology going on here: Apple wants to be number #1, and has the resources to do it. RIM is happy to be number... um... umpteen, and has the resources to do it, so long as there is growth. I don't mean to say that RIM is happy to settle with inferior quality products: I think their products are great quality, software and hardware alike... I just mean they're not trying to "own" the mass market. They're sticking with their niche... a niche they arguably created, but are arguably becoming even niche-y-er.

    I think RIM's problem, a dangerous one, is that statements made by the co-CEOs imply that they are happy to be "correct" and "realistic", like making statements that "The Web is not an app" (which is true... how many iOS apps are just repackaged lame Websites? Or even worse, LIVE "apps" that connect to the net and could JUST be well-written iOS-targetted web pages?) and releasing hardware that is "powerful enough" when what people want is ridiculously over powered devices that cost 1/3rd more but don't really provide much value for that investment? Well, market forces have a "dark side" and RIM doesn't always want to play that game, to the detriment of their public reputation. So, instead of 300,000 shovelware apps in App World, they are 'satisfied' with a few thousand apps, with a higher percentage of quality not-repackaged-web-pages-and-soundboard apps. To that end Let's hope the new all-touch-screen "Blackberry Touch" will be very high resolution and very high performance, to **** with how much it costs.

    In a market affected by prevailing "trends", like which devices / OS platform will rule the roost a year from now, RIM's "trending" downward, while other OS platforms are trending upward. (Personally, I think iOS has peaked in terms of market share and will only decline from here on out. There can be no iOS revolution... unless Apple releases a whole NEW mobile platform OS that IS revolutionary in the same way that iOS was revolutionary when compared to Symbian and BB and Windows CE and Palm... and Android devices are too uneven and the proprietary UI layers (Dell Stage, HTC Sense, Moto Blur) make the apps the only common denominator... would you choose an HTC "Sense" device over a Dell "Stage" device, because you're used to how the launcher works? I think lots of people will.

    That said, I don't believe that QNX is inferior to iOS in any way. There are lots of discussions on this and other boards about the merits of QNX / BBOS and iOS.

    For someone like me, for whom these devices are communication tools, and fart apps have substantially lost their appeal (such as it was) all I can say is that I can live without my iOS devices, but could make do with an iOS device in a pinch, but choose my RIM devices over them, because they have the right balance of hardware features and communications aplomb, and a handful of mild flatulence apps to amuse me during those strange moments when I have absolutely, positively, nothing better to do.
    Last edited by lorax1284; 05-16-11 at 12:01 PM.
    05-16-11 11:46 AM
  11. Schlymer's Avatar
    One major flaw in the apple system besides their tired iOS is you have to load a virus onto your computer and have to constantly sync and update software for every little thing. iOS5 will not remove the virus from your computer. RIM has taken one Giant step ahead of apple as it has only one computer to sell. Apple hopes you buy a mac to load up the virus for your ipad and spend more money. With the playbook, you don't actually have to ever hook it up to a computer for any reason. No ipad can do that. I actually see the app world slowly filling up with apple style crappy apps. I would like to actually see RIM not go the android route and go it alone with well polished apps. I would love to have a vote off function and have apps that don't serve a function, be eliminated. This would push developers to make better quality apps as well as listen to users feed back. If they don't they are gone. The ones that are left would be more profitable as their apps will see a higher concentration of users. It is laughable how much of the 300k apps at the app store are pure crap, but that is the big reason for people to go with the ipad, over anything else. I like the fact that I can go straight to a website and enjoy the full content without an app. The apple fans are not all idiots and will soon figure this out too. Apple is one of the largest brands in the world, which means it will be harder to grow, RIM will have no trouble doubling or tripling in size compared to apple and all the while produce something that apple refuses to make available.
    05-16-11 11:59 AM
  12. kbz1960's Avatar
    I don't care about iOS 5 if apple is still apple and doing things the way they do. Not interested.
    05-16-11 12:07 PM
  13. lnichols's Avatar
    I do understand your point, but QNX 2 is not gonna be released until, let's say, mid-to-end of next year, while iOS 5 will come out this year, and probably iOS 5.5 on the iPad 3 (if not iOS 6) will be out by the time QNX 2 is released. Therefore the comparison of QNX and iOS 5 (even though not released yet), is fair.
    Unless you have a full feature list of changes that iOS5 will have over 4.X, then you can't compare them. iOS5 could be a major rewrite, or not. Once iOS5 is out or shown off then let's discuss this, but until then it is not even at vaporware level.
    05-16-11 01:09 PM
  14. s219's Avatar
    I agree with the OP that most people do not understand how the iPad multitasks, and that is more evident than ever in the comments here. The thing to remember is that iOS inherits from Mac OS X, so it is technically capable of full multitasking. Apple (wisely) limited this (as does Android) to be a more intelligent type of multitasking for mobile devices, where apps can request to use common types of background processes and tasks (ie, audio, navigation, downloads, and even an arbitrary 10 minutes of "task completion" to finish up pretty much whatever an app was doing when the user puts it into the background). In most cases, this is simply a smart approach to multitasking that is intended to provide a better user experience (more responsive foreground app behavior) and preserve battery life.

    The iPad will never get autonomous multitasking like the PlayBook has. If you want, you can load the PlayBook up to run all sorts of tasks simultaneously to the point where they will all start to stutter and the battery level will sink like a stone. RIM leaves it up to the user to decide if they want to do that. You can run as many tasks as you can fit in the active RAM, and let the PlayBook cook itself while going comatose as the battery drains away if you want. Savvy users probably won't do that, or at least they would notice that the experience sucks, know why, and dial it back. But typical "consumer" users won't really pay attention up front; they will just notice that the device starts sucking towards the end. They will have a bad user experience and blame the device/OS.

    This gets to a fundamental trait of Apple, in that they curate the device experience so that users never see rough edges, even if it means putting large "margins" on the user experience. They place heavy priority on having a responsive UI and superb battery life. A large portion of customers are OK with that curated experience, and they actually like having a smooth running device that is always responsive and has great battery life. They even pay extra for it. Apple's success, and their disproportionate share of revenue in the mobile market, is proof that this strategy works.

    I do think there is merit for RIM's approach, but I am not sure I think it really matters on a touchscreen tablet device with a 7" screen. There is simply not enough power in that form factor (or the iPad's for that matter) to really multitask like it's a regular desktop computer. Whether using the PB or an iPad, I definitely reach a point in serious workflows where I put the device aside and grab my laptop. For instance, if I have to answer 1-2 emails here and there, either device is fine. If I get 10 difficult tech-support requests form customers that require lots of typing and pasting screenshots, I would go straight to a laptop. Doesn't matter if or how either tablet device multitasks; either way, it's not nearly as good as a laptop. And so I think it's great the PlayBook can fully multitask, but in practice it's not going to really help me much in my multitasking workflows. In that regard, the PB multitasking approach is not any better than the iPad's. Neither device is really ideal for serious multitasking scenarios just because they are touchscreen tablet devices, with limited screen size in the case of the PB.

    As for the OP's comments about devs going straight for Android apps on the PB, I can speak for my own company and say that is definitely not the case. We actually scoff at this software development path on the device. I think you'll see many lower tier developers port their Android apps over, but the ones who care about a good user experience and are interested in true long term success on the PlayBook will go native. Flash, Air, and Android are all just short term crutches. Serious businesses do not like to prop themselves up on crutches. We like solid software technologies that we can lean on and ride for at least 5-7 years. Native SDKs are the way to go.

    As for iOS 5, we won't know much until WWDC next month. So far, *zero* reliable information is available. I expect we'll get the full details at WWDC. Regardless of the lack of information, I would say that we should not underestimate Apple. They have a solid track record of leapfrogging the competition simply because the competition constantly benchmarks themselves against the Apple of the present, not thinking about what Apple has in store for the future. I see it happen over and over, year after year.
    Last edited by dfg912; 05-16-11 at 03:57 PM.
    takeo likes this.
    05-16-11 03:55 PM
  15. jclardy#IM's Avatar
    I agree on some points, I don't really know what Apple has in store for iOS 5 but I have a feeling it will be one of the largest updates, especially with them "pushing back" the yearly iPhone release cycle.

    There are some things that really annoy me about PB multitasking. One is Showcase mode. While really cool to show off to your friends, what practical purpose is served by showcase mode? If I have a video of a presentation and only want to hear the audio I should be able to do that, but I can't because it pauses when I switch to another app. iPad can't do this either, but that does not justify its lacking on the PB.

    The other thing is audio. The music player gives a nice little "play" icon in the status bar that allows you to control your music. Why can't other apps like Slacker and the browser have this feature? Hopefully it will come eventually, as the iPad already does this: when you bring up the app switching bar and swipe to the right you get music controls that allow you to pause and resume music from whatever music app you were using, even an internet audio stream from the web browser. On the PB you have to switch out of your current app, find your music app and then find the pause button which is located in different places depending on which app you use. If they just had a menu item you wouldn't even have to leave your first app (Just swipe from the top right to bring up the menu.)

    I think RIM's biggest advantage with the PB software right now is their OTA updates. Apple typically has to wait a while between releases as users have to download the entire OS image (around 600 MB) every time they update, while the playbook can update itself. This means RIM can update the playbook way more frequently and in smaller increments as the update file sizes are much smaller.

    Although that itself could be a new feature of iOS 5...No one will know until WWDC.
    05-16-11 04:22 PM
  16. JustAnotherBeerbot's Avatar
    I do understand your point, but QNX 2 is not gonna be released until, let's say, mid-to-end of next year
    Kinda funny considering the playbook tablet os is using QNX 6.5.0.
    Mattma43 and takeo like this.
    05-16-11 04:26 PM
  17. ADGrant's Avatar
    I agree with the OP that most people do not understand how the iPad multitasks, and that is more evident than ever in the comments here. The thing to remember is that iOS inherits from Mac OS X, so it is technically capable of full multitasking.
    OS-X is also built on the MACH microkernal so not only is iOS fully capable of multi-tasking, it is also built on top of a micro-kernal architecture (just like the PB OS).
    05-16-11 04:27 PM
  18. JustAnotherBeerbot's Avatar
    Let's just agree that both iOS and Tablet OS are capable of the same things given their underpinnings. It just boils down to what the product and marketing teams of the respective companies want to push.

    I for one prefer Diet Pepsi to Diet Coke. Discuss....
    05-16-11 04:32 PM
  19. boldtime's Avatar
    One major flaw in the apple system besides their tired iOS is you have to load a virus onto your computer and have to constantly sync and update software for every little thing. iOS5 will not remove the virus from your computer. RIM has taken one Giant step ahead of apple as it has only one computer to sell. Apple hopes you buy a mac to load up the virus for your ipad and spend more money. With the playbook, you don't actually have to ever hook it up to a computer for any reason. No ipad can do that. I actually see the app world slowly filling up with apple style crappy apps. I would like to actually see RIM not go the android route and go it alone with well polished apps. I would love to have a vote off function and have apps that don't serve a function, be eliminated. This would push developers to make better quality apps as well as listen to users feed back. If they don't they are gone. The ones that are left would be more profitable as their apps will see a higher concentration of users. It is laughable how much of the 300k apps at the app store are pure crap, but that is the big reason for people to go with the ipad, over anything else. I like the fact that I can go straight to a website and enjoy the full content without an app. The apple fans are not all idiots and will soon figure this out too. Apple is one of the largest brands in the world, which means it will be harder to grow, RIM will have no trouble doubling or tripling in size compared to apple and all the while produce something that apple refuses to make available.
    I'm certainly no big Apple fan but I am in the marketing game and isn't the idea of a company to sell all it's products rather than just the one? Didn't RIM release the PB with naive email, calendar and contact applications unavailable unless you had one of their handsets?

    I have an iPod touch and an original iPad and I know many people who own multiple Apple devices (**** just read through the forum and you'll hear people saying they own iPhone, iPads...where do they get the money!).

    Apple, RIM, Nokia...etc are in this game to make money for themselves and shareholders by making products they think will sell. RIM will try to sell the PB off the back of BB sales targeting corporate users and Apple will sell their iPad to anyone who knows their devices.

    I would happily take a PB today if I hadn't already spent money on the iPad but I'm happy with what I have and will wait a couple of years before investing another 500 on another device.



    ...and I don't have ANY fart apps loaded on ANY device!
    05-16-11 05:45 PM
  20. flashop's Avatar
    There are some things that really annoy me about PB multitasking. One is Showcase mode. While really cool to show off to your friends, what practical purpose is served by showcase mode? If I have a video of a presentation and only want to hear the audio I should be able to do that, but I can't because it pauses when I switch to another app.
    Showcase still plays for me in the background but "default" pauses soon as i open another app. Not sure you have your settings right if its pausing in "showcase" mode for you.

    You are right that i don't see a ton of great uses for this now but does show the power the Playbook has and with future app development this could be a great feature.
    05-16-11 05:59 PM
  21. samab's Avatar
    OS-X is also built on the MACH microkernal so not only is iOS fully capable of multi-tasking, it is also built on top of a micro-kernal architecture (just like the PB OS).
    Just because Mach is a microkernel, doesn't mean that it will behave like QNX. QNX is a realtime operating system, Mach is not.

    All the other mobile OS'es are capable of some sort of multitasking. It just that if they tried to play a video in the background while you launch an app in the foreground --- the video would stutter in the background.

    You can have a desktop computer doing full multitasking --- and still come out with the video stuttering in the background whenever you tried to launch a word processor in the foreground, or your anti-virus program starts a scan in the background.
    05-16-11 06:17 PM
  22. kbz1960's Avatar
    I'm hoping that QNX is going to be the great, from what I've read it can be! I also hope that iOS does it's thing along with android. Aren't glad that we are different and have different choices!

    And none of them or us are perfect.

    Also, I don't like diet pop so I say Dew!
    05-16-11 06:29 PM
  23. samab's Avatar
    As QNX gets squeezed into smaller and smaller devices (tablet is still too big), QNX's advantages as an a real embedded OS will shine more and more.
    05-16-11 06:35 PM
  24. Crezo's Avatar
    No chance, Apple run far too much of a controlled environment to even compete with either of these OS's. Yeah sure stability and speed wins for iOS hands down, but it's simply NOT a tablet OS, it works fine for the touches and phones but it simply doesn't make sense for the extra screen real estate of a tablet. A big block of icons and that's it? no customisation whatsoever... no good, hence the millions of jailbreakers. It just feels massively constricted and held back to me... don't get me wrong, the apps make up for this, but it feels way too fragmented for my personal liking.

    I think with tablets they are seen more as computers than phone type devices, and as such users want more customisation, flexibility, etc, not just a row of icons.

    Working for a mobile developer myself, I've seen some early dev builds, plus being an Apple fan-boy myself I feel extremely confident in saying they won't go all out to make it customisable with multiple screens layouts, cool UIs etc etc. They sell so well because they're so simple... where as android tablets are more geek gadget based that families, kinds and old folks. That's why they sell so many. (But **** I'd love to be proved wrong... unfortunately know I wont).

    They like a consistent and ultra simple look, that's why they make billions... and I'd bet my right nut that they won't do much or anything with the UI of the OS. It's what makes apple apple, and what makes the Playbooks UI so much more appealing

    Consistency across devices and a 'brand' look is an essential part of the whole ethos of Apple, and I know some of the iOS look and feel will be creeping into the desktop OS very soon too, which just makes me feel even more so that the OS will be stay looking very similar for the next few years (although 3d may well creep in from recent patents they've filled).

    Who knows, I think they REALLY need to do something to compete with the more feature packed OS's though... but I guess time will tell.
    takeo likes this.
    05-16-11 06:54 PM
  25. Snick Snack's Avatar
    RIM's OS deployment model is different than that of Apple: incremental improvement, not big releases / announcements. I think the comparison of how QNX will improve over the short term should take that into consideration.



    Another significant factor that is often left out of these discussions: RIM's business model is growth by increasing the size of the pie, not by getting a bigger piece of an existing set-sized pie. RIM's investor outlook IS relative to other players for whom market share growth is their key data point... which is fair, because when you are an investor are you going to choose to invest in a company who is going to grow, but not grow as fast as another company?

    To a certain extent, there is some corporate psychology going on here: Apple wants to be number #1, and has the resources to do it. RIM is happy to be number... um... umpteen, and has the resources to do it, so long as there is growth. I don't mean to say that RIM is happy to settle with inferior quality products: I think their products are great quality, software and hardware alike... I just mean they're not trying to "own" the mass market. They're sticking with their niche... a niche they arguably created, but are arguably becoming even niche-y-er.

    I think RIM's problem, a dangerous one, is that statements made by the co-CEOs imply that they are happy to be "correct" and "realistic", like making statements that "The Web is not an app" (which is true... how many iOS apps are just repackaged lame Websites? Or even worse, LIVE "apps" that connect to the net and could JUST be well-written iOS-targetted web pages?) and releasing hardware that is "powerful enough" when what people want is ridiculously over powered devices that cost 1/3rd more but don't really provide much value for that investment? Well, market forces have a "dark side" and RIM doesn't always want to play that game, to the detriment of their public reputation. So, instead of 300,000 shovelware apps in App World, they are 'satisfied' with a few thousand apps, with a higher percentage of quality not-repackaged-web-pages-and-soundboard apps. To that end Let's hope the new all-touch-screen "Blackberry Touch" will be very high resolution and very high performance, to **** with how much it costs.

    In a market affected by prevailing "trends", like which devices / OS platform will rule the roost a year from now, RIM's "trending" downward, while other OS platforms are trending upward. (Personally, I think iOS has peaked in terms of market share and will only decline from here on out. There can be no iOS revolution... unless Apple releases a whole NEW mobile platform OS that IS revolutionary in the same way that iOS was revolutionary when compared to Symbian and BB and Windows CE and Palm... and Android devices are too uneven and the proprietary UI layers (Dell Stage, HTC Sense, Moto Blur) make the apps the only common denominator... would you choose an HTC "Sense" device over a Dell "Stage" device, because you're used to how the launcher works? I think lots of people will.

    That said, I don't believe that QNX is inferior to iOS in any way. There are lots of discussions on this and other boards about the merits of QNX / BBOS and iOS.

    For someone like me, for whom these devices are communication tools, and fart apps have substantially lost their appeal (such as it was) all I can say is that I can live without my iOS devices, but could make do with an iOS device in a pinch, but choose my RIM devices over them, because they have the right balance of hardware features and communications aplomb, and a handful of mild flatulence apps to amuse me during those strange moments when I have absolutely, positively, nothing better to do.
    Perfectly put! Thanks! and a double thumbs up to you.
    05-16-11 07:05 PM
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