[takeo]

Hi guys,

First, I'm not an "Apple-addict". Some people here might think that straight away if one starts to talk in a good way about Apple products.

But, to let you know the truth, I've been working for Apple more than a decade. I know their way of thinking and I can literally tell you every next step - I've been spending more than 15 years with the products of this company and know the lifecycles, etc.

What I want to talk about here is a simple thought. I'm really really really impressed by RIM and it's QNX system for the Playbook. I enjoy using it a lot, even though it has major flaws still (webradio stream in different tab not playing, not enough apps (not a general OS problem), no bluetooth-audio profile support, battery meter inaccurate, flash very slow (except for video as it gets support by the graphic processor) etc.pp.).

I have never seen a company release a first OS this polished after all, but I need to keep on thinking here.

People especially in this forum have shown to me that they don't really know that the iPad is indeed capable of multitasking. Apps keep playing audio, data transfers don't get interrupted, websites load in the background, Skype calls don't get missed, etc. I don't really understand how come many here find the Playbooks multitasking more "efficient". As a matter of fact multitasking means that several tasks can be run at the same time, right? The iPad does that. Even though you can't visualize it, as only one app is always in front, and not being shown as "windows" like in QNX, you will never face an app stop it's desired function even though you switch apps. (short reminder, if you doubletap the iPads button, you can switch between apps).

Therefore, except for flash, the iPad doesn't fall short on the QNX system.

Nonetheless, the Playbook is eyecatching and I love the gestures - really remarkable of RIM to come up with a touch-sensitive bezel and implement it this well! (I was further impressed that it can actually tell if you only enter the screen diagonally with your finger coming from atop and shows only the battery-meter, clock etc. then)

What I'm more or less worried about is now that even though RIM has done a remarkable job, Apple is gonna blow them away by about August this year. I estimate iOS 5 to be released the latest around that month.

And if I think about iOS 5 --- guys, this iOS version is gonna be aimed at Android, QNX, WebOS etc. and I'm pretty sure it's gonna make all other OSs look "unpolished" even more.

Therefore, I honestly would like to discuss what you think about it?! Please don't come up with the form factor of 7" - I have to agree that the Playbook is much more portable, but I want to talk about the OS.

Do you believe RIM stands any chance?
I even believe they are going to support Android apps because they know they won't ever be winning this "OS War" - because Android and iOS are just so much bigger. (in this case I really don't understand RIM - as soon as the Android player is out, developers won't think of developing for AppWorld... why should they? -- and whatever is it, the Android player most likely won't be multitasking capable in terms of running multiple apps at the same time and it will lack the speed of a native app, as it's being emulated)


I hope to hear some opinions about my thoughts - I'm sure there are people here around this forum who have been with Blackberry since ages and can give me some insight, what they expect to happen. I'm very curious!!

UPDATE

Didn't want to bother to open a new thread.

Apple has just introduced iOS 5 - Bezel gesture (notifications, swipe down from top to screen), iMessage (BBM clone, but even better as it's independent and you can use any iDevice that's yours to pick up a conversation and go on with the talk, regardless of the PIN etc.), thumb-aligned keyboard on iPad for easier typing, Twitter integration to the core of the OS, Wifi-Sync, OTA updates, 4 to 5 finger-swipe used to switch between apps instantly... and a lot more:

Apple - iOS 5 - 200+ new features for iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch.

Just my 2 cents - this is just the beginning.

Oh, and iCloud (icloud.com) will sync all your files later on.

iOS 5 will be released in Fall together with iCloud... if RIM does not catch up and finally get's the problems fixed on the Playbook and those new BBs with OS 7 out... I don't know how long they will make it. (imho)

[thlax]

i think you have super high hopes for ios5....i doubt it will be much of an update. Apple has established such a look with their mobile ios already. I think it will be more what they do with the next osx for computers....giving them a more mobile ios lookand jazzy switch of screens. Having ipad2 and pb, i think theyre apples and oranges and will keep the pb and sell the ipad2. For what i lose in apps i make up in flash online and such. Also will actually take my tablet everywhere now because of its size.

and ipad multitasking is not as what you said, if im watching something and switch to a different app, it pauses . The only apps that really continue in the background are native apple apps and pandora basically. Thats what they pride themselves on...where on android/bb you should quite apps your arent using tokeep things running smooth, apple pauses them so you dont need to constantly be closing apps.



also big sell on me for pb vs ipad is I CAN USE IT IN SUN LIGHT!!!!! Still able to see the screen And able to see it through my polarized sunglasses!

[Boots4283]

Doesn't the iPad reload the page when the browser comes onto the screen? Also are the programs running in the background or in a frozen state?

[gord888]

my $0.02

No point speculating on what may or may not happen given that all information surrounding iOS5 is pure speculation.

As for your multitasking thing... my understanding was that Apple apps had to be designed with background tasking abilities whereas RIMs QNX OS just does it natively. This would suggest that Apples multitasking experience is more of a workaround rather than "true multitasking". I see it as being akin to faking an orgasm - all the noises and motions are there, but it's not really going the whole 9 yards.

[JDukeOSBB]

monolithic versus microkernel. iOS quite frankly will never be able to do some of the things QNX can. Do some research into it and you will see that iOS was built to expand upon, but is quite limited in comparison to a QNX type OS. With a microkernel OS like QNX, in theory, unlimited cores can be supported. THAT is scalability

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[TheMarco]

Apple will just **** around with some new 'revolutionary' UI stuff in iOS5. They're also doing this stuff in Mac OS X Lion which annoys me to no end because I don't want my laptop to start behaving like an iPad. They already have a Mac OS X 'App Store' *blergh* I'm holding my breath for it at the moment.

Also iOS will never have multitasking like QNX. Android won't either. These OSes aren't realtime OSes so an iPad isn't ever going to do what the PlayBook does in 'showcase' mode. One may wonder if that's NEEDED though for other things than to show off to be honest.

At the end of the day the OS doesn't even matter all that much. It's all about APPS. And right now Apple is the king in that area. I'm not saying the PlayBook needs as many as Apple has but it does need all the obvious ones of which many aren't available yet.

The number one reason for me to hope that RIM is going to have a success with the PlayBook is the fact that I like CHOICE. It sucks if there's only iOS and Android. We need RIM to succeed and Palm/HP to succeed. So people can get what they want / like rather than just pick from the only two that survived the battle.

I want to shop devices like I'm in America, not like I'm in the Soviet Union.

[mmcpher]

ppLet me get this straight -- you want to know what we think about an unreleased OS, but we are to assume that it will be an epochal miracle, rendering Apple products and Apple users into omnipotents? Telaportation, mind-reading, turning dross into gold, and absolute zero cool-looking in the bargain?

As I understand things, this is the way its supposed to work. Despite the remarkable success and achievements of the Apple OS's and Ipads, Google went right on ahead with Android and despite many over-the-top condemnations by Apple and Jobs, who ridiculed Android, Android users and Google, a few people across the world stubbornly and stupidly bought Droids and Google somehow clings to life, penniless and powerless though it may be. HP buys Palm and will soldier on, Microsoft actually has some interesting phones and ideas. Now comes RIM and QNX. It's a good sign that the core Apple supporters are launching their preemptive attacks, as is their practice, because that suggests Apple sees some level of threat no matter their haughty, public condemnations. Apple is thus motivated to keep pushing development instead of concentrating on monetizing everything (which they also excel at) and the end result will be better products across all the platforms that survive.

My layman's sense of QNX is that RIM sees it as a platform from which to build a greater future, and they have squeezed an awful lot out of more limited platforms in the past. I would expect that RIM expects all its competitors to surpass their current products and software and RIM knows that QNX can not remain static for long.

[X04D00]

I'm hoping Apple blows RIM out of the water with iOS5. I truly, 100% do.

Why? Because I like competition. If RIM can't keep up then they have little reason to try. What we have now for devices is a direct result of that competition. RIM will be forced to step up their game to compete with other companies who release similar products. This is in all of our best interest.

I search for new products hoping I can be converted away from the Blackberry.

[nike.stars]

Hi guys,

First, I'm not an "Apple-addict". Some people here might think that straight away if one starts to talk in a good way about Apple products.

But, to let you know the truth, I've been working for Apple more than a decade. I know their way of thinking and I can literally tell you every next step - I've been spending more than 15 years with the products of this company and know the lifecycles, etc.

What I want to talk about here is a simple thought. I'm really really really impressed by RIM and it's QNX system for the Playbook. I enjoy using it a lot, even though it has major flaws still (webradio stream in different tab not playing, not enough apps (not a general OS problem), no bluetooth-audio profile support, battery meter inaccurate, flash very slow (except for video as it gets support by the graphic processor) etc.pp.).

I have never seen a company release a first OS this polished after all, but I need to keep on thinking here.

People especially in this forum have shown to me that they don't really know that the iPad is indeed capable of multitasking. Apps keep playing audio, data transfers don't get interrupted, websites load in the background, Skype calls don't get missed, etc. I don't really understand how come many here find the Playbooks multitasking more "efficient". As a matter of fact multitasking means that several tasks can be run at the same time, right? The iPad does that. Even though you can't visualize it, as only one app is always in front, and not being shown as "windows" like in QNX, you will never face an app stop it's desired function even though you switch apps. (short reminder, if you doubletap the iPads button, you can switch between apps).

Therefore, except for flash, the iPad doesn't fall short on the QNX system.

Nonetheless, the Playbook is eyecatching and I love the gestures - really remarkable of RIM to come up with a touch-sensitive bezel and implement it this well! (I was further impressed that it can actually tell if you only enter the screen diagonally with your finger coming from atop and shows only the battery-meter, clock etc. then)

What I'm more or less worried about is now that even though RIM has done a remarkable job, Apple is gonna blow them away by about August this year. I estimate iOS 5 to be released the latest around that month.

And if I think about iOS 5 --- guys, this iOS version is gonna be aimed at Android, QNX, WebOS etc. and I'm pretty sure it's gonna make all other OSs look "unpolished" even more.

Therefore, I honestly would like to discuss what you think about it?! Please don't come up with the form factor of 7" - I have to agree that the Playbook is much more portable, but I want to talk about the OS.

Do you believe RIM stands any chance?
I even believe they are going to support Android apps because they know they won't ever be winning this "OS War" - because Android and iOS are just so much bigger. (in this case I really don't understand RIM - as soon as the Android player is out, developers won't think of developing for AppWorld... why should they? -- and whatever is it, the Android player most likely won't be multitasking capable in terms of running multiple apps at the same time and it will lack the speed of a native app, as it's being emulated)


I hope to hear some opinions about my thoughts - I'm sure there are people here around this forum who have been with Blackberry since ages and can give me some insight, what they expect to happen. I'm very curious!!

yes, IOS will win this war because:
- Better multitasking
- Better "Look"
- Much better quality Apps

That's the answer you want from us!

I'm tired of this stupid discussion, we don't need to be judge who will win, product market and advancing is constantly dynamic, take example of NVIDIA vs ATI, who's winning? Neither, because each year they took leadership one over another

RIM is RIM, Apple is Apple, which product suits your work style the most then get it straight! It's useless to follow or get the greatest product but it doesn't suit your work/usage style, unless you bought that device just for a showoff freaks to you friends

[semicoln]

In your time at Apple you should have learned that they don't do HUGE steps with software. Even major OS updates are very incremental in nature. I think iOS 5 will be more about cloud services than anything else.

[Billy-X]

just go to tipb.com
if you really want to discuss ios 5

some of us really don't care about ios 5 you know *lol*

QNX FTW!

[Bla1ze]

I'm of the opinion that I really don't care what Apples next OS looks like, it's not here yet -- and when it is here, I likely still won't care.

People will buy what they want and need -- if you're not buying what you want an need and are just picking up something because it has some iCandy.... (I'll let that sink in)...... then you're just a sheep buyer and should probably get whatever is cool at the time.

I have a lot of Apple products.. I have a MacBook Pro, I have an iPad (1, 2) and I have a few generations of iPhones -- sure, they're great devices but guess what? There is always a device out there that matches whatever you have and often times excels beyond it in some aspects.

iPhone 4 for example -- great apps, great camera, crappy messaging device and practically useless for me for those needs.. thus, why I never bought it for that. I bought it for what I wanted it for -- great apps, great camera. Nothing more, nothing less..

iOS 5 could be the greatest thing since sliced bread for all I know, but if it fails in one very important section from my basic needs -- I'll care none for it. Fact remains, as long as RIM keeps their core functions -- while polishing up the UI, and improving what they are failing at, they'll be just fine.

Android, BlackBerry, iOS, WP7, WebOS -- all just players in the game. They'll all have their loyalist users as long as they keep innovating on a certain level -- I for one, am just glad I have choice at all. I like being able to hop OS' and experience different aspects, sticking to and dedicating your experience to one OS' is just outright lame IMO.. even more so if you speak negatively about another OS without ever having used it for a fair amount of time.

[ummie4]

Will iOS5 be able to bridge to my blackberry? @bla1ze I think bridge is the greatest thing since sliced bread, so much potential here!

I suspect a "bridge" type of function might be added to iOS5, but I really don't care. A majority of the people here prefer BB over iOS, so I would bet most of us don't really care about the next iOS

[Dapper37]

I have an outsider's view. Outsider because I just dont have the high tech understanding of the OP or any of the CB poster's But I do understand RIM & Apple as a companies. Anyway the gist that I'm getting is that after a few years of RIM being on it's heals and Apple having there way with everything. It would seem that there's is a change of status in the wind, a shifting of the tide's if you will. More and more I'm seeing fans of apple products coming here on a BB forum (please continue it's great info) and defending ios and admitting to the prospect of QNX, Then at the same time BB fan's seem to have firmer ground to sand on and speek to the quality of a first generation OS by QNX. The trend is your friend. I see the momentum shifting.... At the very least this show's RIM is in the fight!! The timing is just right!!

[jasperlin]

this will make people want to develop for the playbook natively



people want to be able to make cool apps. the native development kit will empower developers to make SUPER SLICK apps on their own.

[FineWolf]

Is iOS5 still have draconian data lockouts which prevents me from retrieving MY files and music from my iOS device on a different computer than the one I use to manage my device? Will it still require me to wipe the device every time I have to reinstall my notebook's OS?

I thought so... This is the reason why I will NEVER use an Apple device for personal use (due to my work, I have to develop on the darn things).

I have customers who lost years of data from their phones after their machines (hardware failure) crashed irreparably. Due to Apple's ridiculous decisions, they had to wipe their phones clean if they wanted to use iTunes for their purchases again. Apple's support response? Tough luck. Heck, those same customers are AMAZED that I can use my 9800 as a USB MSD.

So please, blow me away with more draconian data lockouts and dystopian policies. Remember where Apple liberated the people from the dystopia? Apple has now become the dystopia.

[minnick]

Man you guys bashed the OP. He really did come with open arms not trying to bash QNX and it seemed he wanted to open that discussion. I might be wrong but that's what forums are for. Open discussions on thoughts we want opinions on. And I read in one of the replies that the guy wants Apple to blow RIM away because it'll make them more competitive. I somewhat agree as RIM needs to not get lazy and live off their past laurels with the enterprise BB market. However, QNX is a beast (i'm not tech savvy enough to understand all the cool little nuances between the different softwares) but RIM financials aren't looking that great. Anyone look at Apples balance sheet? See that the cash they're sitting on is worth quite a bit more than many cities/counties in the US and RIM does NOT have that purchasing power right now. Apple might just be able to PURCHASE a game-changing technology/company like many other companies have done in the past. We'll just have to see though as Apple should have died TWICE already but were saved by single products (first the iMac then the iPod). They may be just too stuck in their damn simplistic product ways (I mean that in the sense that they want everything to be "pretty" and very easy to use) and although it doesn't look even possible right now, someday they may go extinct if they ignore market/paradigm shifts.

I think people forgot a lot of times that although these are product/consumer based companies, finance rules the world.

I have an outsider's view. Outsider because I just dont have the high tech understanding of the OP or any of the CB poster's But I do understand RIM & Apple as a companies. Anyway the gist that I'm getting is that after a few years of RIM being on it's heals and Apple having there way with everything. It would seem that there's is a change of status in the wind, a shifting of the tide's if you will. More and more I'm seeing fans of apple products coming here on a BB forum (please continue it's great info) and defending ios and admitting to the prospect of QNX, Then at the same time BB fan's seem to have firmer ground to sand on and speek to the quality of a first generation OS by QNX. The trend is your friend. I see the momentum shifting.... At the very least this show's RIM is in the fight!! The timing is just right!!

and Dapper you sound like an investor or a financial analyst (like me) and I think you're right!

[atuarre]

Who gives a ****? I don't know why you people come on here, a Blackberry forum, to talk about some Apple nonsense.

I have had the iPad and I don't care for it. My first gripe with the Apple App store experience is the fact that you have to either provide your debit/credit card information, or go buy an itunes card or you cannot download their free apps. There is no way around that, which I think is bull**** all in it's own, but you know, Steve Jobs has to control everything. He's a control freak.

At least in Blackberry Appworld you are not required to submit any form of payment to download free apps.

Secondly, I think we have not seen the full potential of the QNX platform yet, lest we forget, this is what runs the touchscreens and stuff in vehicles. I don't hear of any Apple crap running anything.

If you want an idevice so bad, go out and buy one, but spare me this bull**** where you try to point out one of Apple's products strong points and then we try to explain the Blackberry/QNX strong points. If you are going to buy it, go do it, and not waste any of our time, and when you get tired of it, and you come back to Blackberry, as most people who leave for Apple do, we will welcome you back. These threads are getting old though.

[cheetah2k]

I honestly think RIM is on a winner here - but not with the common demographic. I see them winning with existing BB users, and the iOS users fed up with the same o same o interface, looking for something new, quick, and rapidly developing. I am just that person. I've been an Apple fanboy for so long (ever since 2007) and I've had every iteration of the iPhone, and the 1st gen iPad.

As Dapper37 wrote, "I see the momentum shifting"... He is spot on. There's no 2 ways about it that Apple keep pushing the same interface that has just grown old. Sure iOS has the apps - no one is even competing there - but to be honest, I've only ever bought about 15 apps. The rest were just rubbish.. For me the whole iOS fad has just grown repetitive and boring - its like sitting in front of the TV every night, watching the same old shows, and eating the same TV dinners, like an old married couple. The excitement is gone, if iOS was a girl, I'd probably prefer to pleasure myself rather than putting my junk anywhere near it.

I've never owned a RIM product until my 64Gb Playbook. I've gone from iOS, to Android (and still own an Android phone BTW - Moto Atrix), and now I'm moving over to BB. There are a lot of people out there like me. The momentum is shifting.. Apple should be afraid, they should be very afraid.

[minnick]

bb & playbook ftw! RAW RAW RAW!!!!!!

[takeo]

I think people forgot a lot of times that although these are product/consumer based companies, finance rules the world.



and Dapper you sound like an investor or a financial analyst (like me) and I think you're right!

Well thanks for your point that I get ripped apart in some terms without further thinking.

I'm actually a investor as well and I'm well aware of many background stories and I don't see RIM stocks going anywhere but down at the moment.

The problem in general is the public opinion and not what BB users/fans think. And the common public opinion is derived by newspapers, blogs, websites and reviews - and it's pretty bad regarding the playbook.

I don't understand why most people here just say "I don't give a **** about Apple"... honestly, that's not how it works. Without Apple there would be no Playbook - that's for sure. So RIM gives a **** about Apple, but its users/fans don't........ weird.

BTW I own 3 BBs - all bought in 1 year, because I really got to like BBs. Before, derived from the public opinion, I didn't have a good image in my head about BBs. I probably would never have tried out one without the influence of Indonesia where I live currently. I would probably never have thought of buying a Playbook without my BBs. People here should start to realize that RIM is loosing a lot of ground - like Nokia - and over the next few years this could get nasty.

[minnick]

The problem in general is the public opinion and not what BB users/fans think. And the common public opinion is derived by newspapers, blogs, websites and reviews - and it's pretty bad regarding the playbook.

I don't understand why most people here just say "I don't give a **** about Apple"... honestly, that's not how it works. Without Apple there would be no Playbook - that's for sure. So RIM gives a **** about Apple, but its users/fans don't........ weird.

People here should start to realize that RIM is loosing a lot of ground - like Nokia - and over the next few years this could get nasty.

Yes, yes, and yes Takeo that's why I stepped in to "defend" you. Just like Apple fanboys, we have a lot of RIM fanboys here so you should know what kind of hornets nest you're stepping into. Markets dictate what companies do and if they survive regardless of what the consumer/fan thinks.

I myself am one of the RIM fans but understand that getting emotionally attached to a company's ideologies and products and not coming to grips with the reality of their actions can get you burned. I really do hope RIM can shift the paradigm with QNX and the playbook as I love everything about it! Only time will tell though.

[Hartikrishna]

In your time at Apple you should have learned that they don't do HUGE steps with software. Even major OS updates are very incremental in nature. I think iOS 5 will be more about cloud services than anything else.

My thoughts exactly. I've spent a lot of time with iOS. Upgrades were NEVER huge. The biggest step was from 3.x to 4.0 (took Apple about a year) because of folders and app switching. That's about it. iOS updates seem giant steps if you are using iOS-devices on a daily basis and get frustrated more and more. Then those updates feel like a relief and you think "OMFG this is soooo great" -seriously, I said that when my iPhone got the 4.0 update .

Well, after some time I changed my mind (or should I say "broadened my horizon"? It felt like that), sold my iPhone, laughed at the iPad and waited for something that really suits me and my needs. And here I am, happy with my Playbook.

[simsim]

Supposing I bought a car.

I was happy with my car. It was the right price, did everything I wanted and was perfect for me.

Now by some miracle I heard that a guy in some village in Cambodia was about to buy a different car, AND...

thought it was a better car (for him) than mine.

Should I care? Should I fly over there and tell him all the benefits of my car? Am I so insecure to even give a flying duck?

Same with ios.

[siausin]

i think ipad will continue to lead the tablet competition, but i do think the pb is a very capable device. what rim should do is not to beat apple because that won't materialize anytime soon..but rim should keep investing in pb and bb to make them better and to defend further market share erosion..beating android is probably its doable end game..i hate to say ipad is untouchable but it is...i agree what the OP said the market and blog negative reviews are negatively impacting pb..rim can't change the market perceptions quickly..ipad is perceived to be the best tablet out there and this perception will just keep snowballing..when you have the same ipad interface people say it is user friendly..when you have the same bb interface people say it is old and outdated....the market for tablet is expanding and i think if rim keeps polishing its pb it will gain a good market share and be relevant in the market