[Wangta]

So there are a couple older threads on this, but I want to bring this back up with a fresh thread. I honestly think Microsoft should BUY RIM. I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't already made a move. Here is the rationale:

1) RIM's stock price is down, and shareholder's are not happy - what better time to file a tender offer or hostile takeover?

2) Blackberries are basically corporate phones (biggest market) - meaning, they are basically integrated with MICROSOFT Outlook and Server, etc. If Microsoft owned RIM, it would own almost the entire value chain - software, email, hardware, etc. ****, Microsoft might even make it work BETTER since everything would be vertically integrated (think Apple).

3) Microsoft has been trying to get into the phone world for a long time and still can't seem to do it. What better way to get a customer base that already fits your corporate "DNA", while getting a cheap price on a market "leader" (they still own ~25% of the PDA market). Blackberry is obviously an established brand, with a solid OS, that has a strong hold of the corporate market. And they'd also get the playbook tablet thrown in there as well.

4) What else is Microsoft doing with the cash? It has a ton of cash just sitting on the balance sheet (like many companies in the U.S.). Not a very good use of capital. I dunno what you're getting on your checking/savings accounts, but I'm getting squat. I'm sure Microsoft is looking to put their money to work and get higher than .0000005% (joking, but rates are super low right now).

Oh, and if this happened, maybe we could FINALLY GET SKYPE FOR THE PLAYBOOK! HAH.

[Mastajeet]

I'm not a hater but i like things that work. However problem 1. Canadian Companies should remain in Canada

[Wangta]

I'm not a hater but i like things that work. However problem 1. Canadian Companies should remain in Canada

You could look at it this way, maybe they could merge, and the surviving entity would be Canadian.

[entimp]

I'd give this a thumbs up... a hostile takeover of RIM would be ACE right now.

[elchavodellethbridge]

No I think Canadian Tire should buy RIM.


Ba!!!

[Foreverup]

IMHO this thread should be moved to the general discussion forum

[narci]

IMHO this thread should be moved to the general discussion forum

Should belong in a blog instead.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[ignites]

1) RIM is Canadian, it would never be allowed
2) QNX/BBOS is better than Windows Phone OS, imo, both cannot survive in one company. If MSFT brought RIM, they would be inadvertently admitting failure of their Phone OS and also at the same thing bite their own tongue over 'Hardware Neutrality'. I also think this will definitely kill innovation when it comes to RIM / BlackBerry products (or some may argue this has already been killed but I stand otherwise corrected over new products such as PB / Enterprising Minds videos).
3) It will never happen as Jim / Mike own a combine stake of 10% and it is very obvious they have a lot of friends who together own a significant stake in the company (or else why would they still be the co-Chairs....).

theres just too many REAL reasons why this HYPOTHETICAL takeover is not reasonable.

[esqlaw]

1) RIM is Canadian, it would never be allowed
2) QNX/BBOS is better than Windows Phone OS, imo, both cannot survive in one company. If MSFT brought RIM, they would be inadvertently admitting failure of their Phone OS and also at the same thing bite their own tongue over 'Hardware Neutrality'. I also think this will definitely kill innovation when it comes to RIM / BlackBerry products (or some may argue this has already been killed but I stand otherwise corrected over new products such as PB / Enterprising Minds videos).
3) It will never happen as Jim / Mike own a combine stake of 10% and it is very obvious they have a lot of friends who together own a significant stake in the company (or else why would they still be the co-Chairs....).

theres just too many REAL reasons why this HYPOTHETICAL takeover is not reasonable.

Why exactly is its Country of incorporation relevant? If its bought out, it would likely stay Canadian, or not, and in any case the job locations would not likely change.

You're forgetting the fact that when a company buys another company, it doesn't mean one company results. Microsoft could buy enough stock and change the board of directors. It doesn't have to buy the company and kill it off while absorbing its assets.

I think some of the people here commenting have no actual knowledge of business structuring or practices.

[southlander]

The Windows Phone team @ MS would be livid.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

[entimp]

1) RIM is Canadian, it would never be allowed
2) QNX/BBOS is better than Windows Phone OS, imo, both cannot survive in one company. If MSFT brought RIM, they would be inadvertently admitting failure of their Phone OS and also at the same thing bite their own tongue over 'Hardware Neutrality'. I also think this will definitely kill innovation when it comes to RIM / BlackBerry products (or some may argue this has already been killed but I stand otherwise corrected over new products such as PB / Enterprising Minds videos).
3) It will never happen as Jim / Mike own a combine stake of 10% and it is very obvious they have a lot of friends who together own a significant stake in the company (or else why would they still be the co-Chairs....).

theres just too many REAL reasons why this HYPOTHETICAL takeover is not reasonable.

1: Yes it would... Canada is a Western G20 country that has to deal with the rest of the world in terms of trade. It would be considered protectionism of the worst kind if a Canadian government stopped a takeover.
2: Your opinion. My opinion is the the BB PB is by far the worst tablet out there on the market and I'm a sap for buying one.
3: 10% is that all? Then BB are ripe for a hostile takeover. At a given percentage... a new owner can force all share holders to sell stock to him/her/them so it is owned 100%.

Lets see... Feb 2012 comes round, no update, shares nose dive in an already poor western economy... in steps a mystery buyer.

One can only dream

[Darlaten]

Why exactly is its Country of incorporation relevant? If its bought out, it would likely stay Canadian, or not, and in any case the job locations would not likely change.

You're forgetting the fact that when a company buys another company, it doesn't mean one company results. Microsoft could buy enough stock and change the board of directors. It doesn't have to buy the company and kill it off while absorbing its assets.

I think some of the people here commenting have no actual knowledge of business structuring or practices.

Would Canada's Foreign Ownership Laws for Telecommunications play a role here? For example, Canadian law states the following when it comes to foreign ownership of telecommunication companies:

1. not less than eighty per cent of the members of the board of directors of the corporation are individual Canadians;

2. Canadians beneficially own, directly or indirectly, in the aggregate and otherwise than by way of security only, not less than eighty per cent of the corporation�s voting shares issued and outstanding; and

3. the corporation is not otherwise controlled by persons that are not Canadians.

The aforementioned points are highlighted in the opening Chapter of this law: House of Commons Committees - INDU (40-3) - Canada's Foreign Ownership Rules and Regulations in the Telecommunications Sector - i) Foreign Ownership and Legislation in the Canadian Telecommunications Sector

I wonder if RIM would be considered a telecommunication company or whether or not this term distinctly means companies such as Rogers and Telus? Where is a lawyer when you need one?

If it is a "technology" company, then the suggestion that Canada's government will not allow it to be taken over is moot - there are no Canadian laws that preclude foreign ownership that I am aware of. If there are, please advise.

[Linegod]

Nothing good has ever come from Microsoft buying out a company.

[entimp]

Nothing good has ever come from Microsoft buying out a company.

I'd beg to differ.

[FF22]

You could look at it this way, maybe they could merge, and the surviving entity would be Canadian.

Not bad, the border is only about 200 miles (or do I now have to use kilometers) to the north from here.

[FF22]

IMHO this thread should be moved to the general discussion forum

Maybe the thread should be moved to Canada! Well, I guess in some form or other it actually does reside up there now.

[blackjack93117]

Ooh god please no.
so they could destroy RIM?

[His Shadow]

Would Canada's Foreign Ownership Laws for Telecommunications play a role here? For example, Canadian law states the following when it comes to foreign ownership of telecommunication companies:

1. not less than eighty per cent of the members of the board of directors of the corporation are individual Canadians;

2. Canadians beneficially own, directly or indirectly, in the aggregate and otherwise than by way of security only, not less than eighty per cent of the corporation�s voting shares issued and outstanding; and

3. the corporation is not otherwise controlled by persons that are not Canadians.

The aforementioned points are highlighted in the opening Chapter of this law: House of Commons Committees - INDU (40-3) - Canada's Foreign Ownership Rules and Regulations in the Telecommunications Sector - i) Foreign Ownership and Legislation in the Canadian Telecommunications Sector

I wonder if RIM would be considered a telecommunication company or whether or not this term distinctly means companies such as Rogers and Telus? Where is a lawyer when you need one?

If it is a "technology" company, then the suggestion that Canada's government will not allow it to be taken over is moot - there are no Canadian laws that preclude foreign ownership that I am aware of. If there are, please advise.

The Canadian government can in fact block foreign takeovers using the Investment Canada Act. Under the Investment Canada Act, the federal government must base its decisions on whether a takeover would bring a "net benefit" to Canadian communities. The latest blocked takeover that comes to mind is when Australian BHP Billiton tried to take over Saskatchewan based Potash Corporation. It's pretty rare, but it does happen. With a high profile tech company like Rim, it would probably come up.

More information on the act can be found here:

Home - Investment Canada Act

[Foreverup]

Maybe the thread should be moved to Canada! Well, I guess in some form or other it actually does reside up there now.

IMHO you are Canadian in some form

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[shahgk]

IMHO Nokia should buy RIM. MS already invested their time and money on WP7.

[entimp]

The Canadian government can in fact block foreign takeovers using the Investment Canada Act. Under the Investment Canada Act, the federal government must base its decisions on whether a takeover would bring a "net benefit" to Canadian communities. The latest blocked takeover that comes to mind is when Australian BHP Billiton tried to take over Saskatchewan based Potash Corporation. It's pretty rare, but it does happen. With a high profile tech company like Rim, it would probably come up.

More information on the act can be found here:

Home - Investment Canada Act

The Potash company has valued and future stability. Producing a fifth to a quarter of the world fertilizer base. It has a market cap of about 70 billion Canadian dollars.

From what I can research RIM had a market cap of about 80 billion dollars 3 years ago. They now have a market cap of under 14 billion and are still losing share price value.

Too put that in plain english. RIM shareholders lost almost 70 billion dollars over the last 3 years. A share price and company value loss of about 80%.

Do I personally believe the Canadian government would stick their neck out on this one? Not a chance.

RIM are not a big company, their shares are still going south and confidence in their ability to get the job done is ever on the wane. Outages and failed tablet launch.

Shares are about 20 dollars right now. I reckon they will hit a low of about 11 or 12 dollars in Feb if the QNX and PB 2.0 is pushed back again.

Look at it this way Microsoft purchased Skype for almost 9 billion. RIM are not far off that value and are a far bigger prize. MS probably has a market cap between 250 & 300 billion dollars. Buying into the smartphone/tablet hardware market would be a choice feather in their cap.

Again, I'd like to see it happen.

[BergerKing]

Nah, they would break it into pieces, take those bits they wanted, and throw the rest in the Recycle Bin. It would result in an electronic Eve of Destruction.

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[Jake Storm]

The Potash company has valued and future stability. Producing a fifth to a quarter of the world fertilizer base. It has a market cap of about 70 billion Canadian dollars.

From what I can research RIM had a market cap of about 80 billion dollars 3 years ago. They now have a market cap of under 14 billion and are still losing share price value.

Too put that in plain english. RIM shareholders lost almost 70 billion dollars over the last 3 years. A share price and company value loss of about 80%.

Do I personally believe the Canadian government would stick their neck out on this one? Not a chance.

RIM are not a big company, their shares are still going south and confidence in their ability to get the job done is ever on the wane. Outages and failed tablet launch.

Shares are about 20 dollars right now. I reckon they will hit a low of about 11 or 12 dollars in Feb if the QNX and PB 2.0 is pushed back again.

Look at it this way Microsoft purchased Skype for almost 9 billion. RIM are not far off that value and are a far bigger prize. MS probably has a market cap between 250 & 300 billion dollars. Buying into the smartphone/tablet hardware market would be a choice feather in their cap.

Again, I'd like to see it happen.

What on earth does share price have to do with a "net benefit" to Canadian communities?
The government could easily step in to prevent a buyout. The loss of Canadian jobs and the massive brain drain as the brightest minds followed the jobs south, would definitely have an adverse effect on Canadian communities.
Make no mistake about it. Anyone thinking about buying RIM is not going to leave the company to run the way it is now. They will be breaking it up and selling pieces off for a quick buck.

[Darlaten]

The Canadian government can in fact block foreign takeovers using the Investment Canada Act. Under the Investment Canada Act, the federal government must base its decisions on whether a takeover would bring a "net benefit" to Canadian communities. The latest blocked takeover that comes to mind is when Australian BHP Billiton tried to take over Saskatchewan based Potash Corporation. It's pretty rare, but it does happen. With a high profile tech company like Rim, it would probably come up.

More information on the act can be found here:

Home - Investment Canada Act

If I remember the story of the Potash thing, there was also strong nationalistic sentiment particularly coming from those in the former Reform party and the now present Conservative goverment. And this was euphamistically touted as being a net benefit to Canadian communities; hence, the take over bid was blocked.

Although purely academic at this point, it would be interesting to see whether or not there is public sentiment on the part of Canadians to press the Conservative Goverment to protect RIM from being bought it if a foreign take over bid did occurr.

[dcorx]

i think the stock price is gunna drop even lower than what it is now. if it goes into the teens their in prime takeover position. i maybe a good idea for microsoft to buyout rim. they basically own the business market imho