10-24-12 08:53 PM
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  1. xsacha's Avatar
    It's not whether the app pauses when you switch away from it (you want games and videos to do this).
    It's if the app hibernates when it is backgrounded and then needs to be reloaded when you switch back to it. This is the issue that the Playbook (its developers and ultimately its users) does not have to contend with.

    For iOS, only pre-installed (first-party) apps can multitask. Every other app has to use in-built (first-party) services as soon as they are backgrounded. The same as dumbphones (like S40) by the way.

    Android at least lets the developer use a custom service which means they can do processing while backgrounded.

    Playbook, Windows (any desktop OS), Symbian, Meego, WebOS, etc.. just let everything run as-is. With Playbook, the developer can choose then what they want it to do when backgrounded. And, the user can override this.
    missing_K-W, diegonei and esk369 like this.
    10-15-12 08:39 AM
  2. mikeo007's Avatar
    It's not whether the app pauses when you switch away from it (you want games and videos to do this).
    It's if the app hibernates when it is backgrounded and then needs to be reloaded when you switch back to it. This is the issue that the Playbook (its developers and ultimately its users) does not have to contend with.
    This issue is due to system resources and the Playbook is just as susceptible to it as any other tablet. Open a couple of RAM heavy apps and watch how fast you run out of resources.

    For iOS, only pre-installed (first-party) apps can multitask. Every other app has to use in-built (first-party) services as soon as they are backgrounded. The same as dumbphones (like S40) by the way.

    Android at least lets the developer use a custom service which means they can do processing while backgrounded.
    If you would have read any of this thread, you'd know this is wrong. iOS and Android adopted the same multitasking paradigm. Stop spreading false info please. Provide a valid example like the OP asked for instead of just spreading misinformation.
    10-15-12 09:31 AM
  3. notfanboy's Avatar
    Part 1 of the video is up. Providing the text below for context. There's a "tl;dr" at the end.

    Yesterday, RKENNEDY made a post describing a typical workload: "a true and PRACTICAL example of multitasking in action and involves a mixture of 10 native and Android apps all running concurrently. It's a workload that will bury most Android tabs and (I'm assuming) iOS."

    He further goes on to say " Trust me, I've tried to replicate it with my heavily tweaked/optimized Acer Iconia Tab A200 running ICS. Not only was it impossible to keep track of all those apps using Android's crude "recent apps" list, half the time the app I was switching back to had been closed in the background by the OS, forcing a complete reload and (often) a loss of context/state/where the heck I was when I first switched away. Absolutely maddening, as was the general sluggishness and in,stability that would set-in with Android after an hour or so of jumping between apps."

    I replied that I could replicate his scenario on the Galaxy SIII with none of the problems he described. He then called me a liar and a troll. So I made a video so everyone can make up their own minds. As you watch it, please look for instances where the context is lost (supposedly often), where the app has been closed (supposedly half the time), sluggishness or instability.

    The video is unedited. The reason it is in two parts is because the scenario called for receiving an email with a PDF attachment, and I didn't have one prepared. I stopped the video, sent myself an email, and finished recording. Here are some things to watch for in part one.

    - I replicated most RCK's 30 step scenario from the beginning with equivalent apps
    - in a couple of places, I used Android's voice dictation when editing the Office document just to save time
    - For the podcast portion, I made my own. I saved an article off the web for offline reading
    - I hooked up a bluetooth mouse and keyboard towards the end
    - I had the ezPDF read out the PDF file to me, with music playing in the background, while browsing the web
    - Watch out for an awkward moment with Yahoo Mail. I only installed Yahoo Mail for this demo to use a pseudonym account, did not want to show my email address. Yahoo apparently does not make URLs into hyperlinks. This problem is of course not present in the stock browser and Gmail

    There were about ten different apps used in the scenario. You'll notice that NOT once did I go to the home screen to launch an app. Instead I used Google Gesture Launch and Dock4Droid. This doesn't change the parameters of the test though. I could have gone to the home screen instead, but finding an app from my 130 or so apps can get tedious, and my home screen is not optimized for RCK's workflow.

    tl;dr : rkennedy makes some claims about multitasking. I dispute them. He calls me a troll and a liar. I post video proof.

    Part One (12 minutes):
    Android Multitasking 1 - Video Dailymotion

    Part Two (1:19 minutes):
    Android Multitasking 2 - Video Dailymotion
    esk369 and mikeo007 like this.
    10-15-12 09:39 AM
  4. missing_K-W's Avatar
    This issue is due to system resources and the Playbook is just as susceptible to it as any other tablet. Open a couple of RAM heavy apps and watch how fast you run out of resources.



    If you would have read any of this thread, you'd know this is wrong. iOS and Android adopted the same multitasking paradigm. Stop spreading false info please. Provide a valid example like the OP asked for instead of just spreading misinformation.
    If anyone knows anything about multitasking between platforms it's xsacha (look him up).. Bottom line is iOS and Android are inefficient.
    diegonei likes this.
    10-15-12 11:19 AM
  5. diegonei's Avatar
    Well, no matter who posts (by who, I mean xsacha - rooter of tablets, cracker of berries and defender of the realm) or what is said, these two will just keep saying there is nothing good about the PlayBook's multitasking.

    The S III'S is a beast, but it is not testament to the Android experience in general (but it sure would be nice for their users if it was - it seems Google is working on that though with newer version of the OS). iOS has never been known for this particular feature.

    But since we're talking RIM/BlackBerry/PlayBook, it has to flawed right?

    I'm out. Have fun.
    esk369 likes this.
    10-15-12 11:35 AM
  6. mikeo007's Avatar
    If anyone knows anything about multitasking between platforms it's xsacha (look him up).. Bottom line is iOS and Android are inefficient.
    Like I said earlier, QNX is a multiprocessing beast. Multitasking and task switching is more about how the UI handles things though.
    Gunpackingsaint likes this.
    10-15-12 11:39 AM
  7. Gunpackingsaint's Avatar
    I'm still relatively new to android with my t300 and still learning the os like anything its got its +'s and -'s l can't comment on Apple because I don't own any apple products.
    I will say in my humble opinion that the pb's multitasking capabilities are head and shoulders above my transformer t300 hands down better and unless I'm missing somthing my opinion won't change.
    I like both I use both but as far as simplicity and ease of use again I have to go with the pb that being said there are things my droid tab does that the pb just can't do for now but I expect that to change in the very near future and that's my 2 bits.
    I completely agree with your comment regarding the TF300. I recently returned my TF300 for various reasons (speaker placement, crappy browsers, build quality), but that was definitely one of them. I hated the fact that I had to hit that recent apps button on the bottom left hand corner. I love the fact that you can swipe the PB and fluidly switch to other apps.
    esk369 likes this.
    10-15-12 11:48 AM
  8. msyogota's Avatar
    Just my 2 cents - I agree that multitasking in PB is great but unfortunately, I do not see possible to be running lot of apps at once, simply because of RAM. With freshly started PB you have about 500 MB left. And when you start Calendar, Mail, SMS Bridge and Browser with few open panels, from my experience it soon kills at least one app. This happens very often, even if I have only few apps open, just the Browser itself is using so much RAM, that running for example 10 or more apps at the same time seems like a sci-fi to me
    10-15-12 12:20 PM
  9. esk369's Avatar
    Part 1 of the video is up. Providing the text below for context. There's a "tl;dr" at the end.

    Yesterday, RKENNEDY made a post describing a typical workload: "a true and PRACTICAL example of multitasking in action and involves a mixture of 10 native and Android apps all running concurrently. It's a workload that will bury most Android tabs and (I'm assuming) iOS."

    He further goes on to say " Trust me, I've tried to replicate it with my heavily tweaked/optimized Acer Iconia Tab A200 running ICS. Not only was it impossible to keep track of all those apps using Android's crude "recent apps" list, half the time the app I was switching back to had been closed in the background by the OS, forcing a complete reload and (often) a loss of context/state/where the heck I was when I first switched away. Absolutely maddening, as was the general sluggishness and in,stability that would set-in with Android after an hour or so of jumping between apps."

    I replied that I could replicate his scenario on the Galaxy SIII with none of the problems he described. He then called me a liar and a troll. So I made a video so everyone can make up their own minds. As you watch it, please look for instances where the context is lost (supposedly often), where the app has been closed (supposedly half the time), sluggishness or instability.

    The video is unedited. The reason it is in two parts is because the scenario called for receiving an email with a PDF attachment, and I didn't have one prepared. I stopped the video, sent myself an email, and finished recording. Here are some things to watch for in part one.

    - I replicated most RCK's 30 step scenario from the beginning with equivalent apps
    - in a couple of places, I used Android's voice dictation when editing the Office document just to save time
    - For the podcast portion, I made my own. I saved an article off the web for offline reading
    - I hooked up a bluetooth mouse and keyboard towards the end
    - I had the ezPDF read out the PDF file to me, with music playing in the background, while browsing the web
    - Watch out for an awkward moment with Yahoo Mail. I only installed Yahoo Mail for this demo to use a pseudonym account, did not want to show my email address. Yahoo apparently does not make URLs into hyperlinks. This problem is of course not present in the stock browser and Gmail

    There were about ten different apps used in the scenario. You'll notice that NOT once did I go to the home screen to launch an app. Instead I used Google Gesture Launch and Dock4Droid. This doesn't change the parameters of the test though. I could have gone to the home screen instead, but finding an app from my 130 or so apps can get tedious, and my home screen is not optimized for RCK's workflow.

    tl;dr : rkennedy makes some claims about multitasking. I dispute them. He calls me a troll and a liar. I post video proof.

    Part One (12 minutes):
    Android Multitasking 1 - Video Dailymotion

    Part Two (1:19 minutes):
    Android Multitasking 2 - Video Dailymotion
    I just got done with part one.
    1st let me say that balancing the camera and the ice cold brew on the table shows good balance and good taste in your choice of stabilizers.
    I'm impressed with the capabilities of the Samsung sg3? It certainly looks like multitasking to a tech challenged person like myself if I can learn how to on my transformer well that would make me one happy camper.
    I tip my cap to you NFB I respect the way you handled yourself ( like a gentleman ) and you backed up your words with actions and in today's world that's exceedingly rare.
    I'm impressed by both the playbooks multitasking and Samsung's multitasking and I thank you for keeping it real.
    AND JUST FOR THE RECORD IN MY MOST HUMBLE OPINION NOTAFANBOY IS NOT I REPEAT NOT A TROLL.
    thanks again for taking the time to do the demo. :-D
    mikeo007 likes this.
    10-15-12 12:27 PM
  10. rkennedy01's Avatar
    Just my 2 cents - I agree that multitasking in PB is great but unfortunately, I do not see possible to be running lot of apps at once, simply because of RAM. With freshly started PB you have about 500 MB left. And when you start Calendar, Mail, SMS Bridge and Browser with few open panels, from my experience it soon kills at least one app. This happens very often, even if I have only few apps open, just the Browser itself is using so much RAM, that running for example 10 or more apps at the same time seems like a sci-fi to me
    You hit the nail on the head. Memory contention is the biggest factor when multitasking on the PB. One way I get around this is by using a lot of Android apps which, ironically, seem to consume less RAM than native apps. This is likely due to the more efficient APIs/libraries of Android vs. the bloatware that is AIR, etc. If you re-read my post you'll note that many of the apps I used in the scenario were Android: Twitter, TapaTalk, gReader Pro, Swarm, RepliGo. In fact, other than the browser, email, music player and Docs to Go, I rarely use any native apps. And if I could find viable Android alternatives to these, I'd likely use them as well.

    So the irony here is that I'm a huge fan of certain Android apps. However, I prefer to run these apps on the PB since it provides a more stable environment. They multitask better, they crash less often and I don't have to worry about one of them taking out my entire tablet like I do under Android.

    UPDATE: Since video is difficult for me (256Kbps upstream with high latency), I've assembled a photo montage of 8 concurrent Android apps running on my PB. The final image shows the available memory - nearly 400MB! I can still launch the browser, email client and even docs to go if necessary. So it IS possible - but you need to use mostly Android apps since they're less RAM hungry.

    UPDATE 2: Added two more screenshots showing Messages, Browser and Nobex Radio running alongside those 8 Android apps. I've now got overlapping audio, streaming, messaging and web browser workloads on top of all the rest - 11 concurrent apps and I STILL have 125MB free (though those three native apps are obvious memory hogs).

    How does the PlayBook multitask?-img_00000001.jpgHow does the PlayBook multitask?-img_00000002.jpgHow does the PlayBook multitask?-img_00000003.jpgHow does the PlayBook multitask?-img_00000004.jpgHow does the PlayBook multitask?-img_00000005.jpgHow does the PlayBook multitask?-img_00000006.jpg
    How does the PlayBook multitask?-img_00000007.jpgHow does the PlayBook multitask?-img_00000008.jpg
    RCK
    Last edited by rkennedy01; 10-15-12 at 01:49 PM.
    10-15-12 01:08 PM
  11. Jet B's Avatar
    For iOS, only pre-installed (first-party) apps can multitask. Every other app has to use in-built (first-party) services as soon as they are backgrounded. The same as dumbphones (like S40) by the way.

    Android at least lets the developer use a custom service which means they can do processing while backgrounded.

    Playbook, Windows (any desktop OS), Symbian, Meego, WebOS, etc.. just let everything run as-is. With Playbook, the developer can choose then what they want it to do when backgrounded. And, the user can override this.
    Only "first-party" iOS apps can multitask? Wrong. Examples:

    -I use a GPS app that gives audible turn-by turn in the background called GPS Drive ( MotionX | MotionX News MotionX-GPS Drive )

    -I use a YouTube app called Jasmine ( Jasmine is a Gorgeous, Free YouTube App for iPhone and iPad ).
    "Jasmine also supports background play"
    I often start a YouTube vid on the iPad, AirPlay it to the TV, and then use the iPad for eg browsing while the video continues to play on the TV.
    Lots more examples you like.

    Developers can and do choose what they want their apps to do in the background. The difference is that this must be an explicit choice. When it doesn't make sense for the app to run in the background ( eg first person shooters ), they don't. The app is held static in memory, thus CPU cycles etc are not consumed unless necessary.

    As an aside, I notice that posters often conflate their arguments, treating iOS and Android as equivalent. Long posts slagging Android multitasking, then concluding that only PlayBook can do "proper multitasking". This is illogical. I know little about Android, but I do know it is very different architecturally from iOS.
    notfanboy likes this.
    10-15-12 01:27 PM
  12. missing_K-W's Avatar
    What's important to me is that devs have full access to hardware when developing software. That is where the real benefits come from. "App switching" is a higher layer.

    I have the Neutron Media Player. The dev has full access to hardware. With Android the dev stated he wants Android to give audio access to hardware. This is a very good example where the user experience will suffer!

    As a user that really compromises the experience. Like the experience I described above. App switching is a compromise if devs can't access hardware fully. Phony multitasking versus true.

    At the surface app switching looks great. However the user experience is compromised period.
    10-15-12 02:07 PM
  13. notfanboy's Avatar

    I have the Neutron Media Player. The dev has full access to hardware. With Android the dev stated he wants Android to give audio access to hardware. This is a very good example where the user experience will suffer!

    As a user that really compromises the experience. Like the experience I described above.
    Can you be more specific? I'm and end user, please describe the specific feature(s) that makes Neutron Media Player a better user experience on the PB.
    mikeo007 likes this.
    10-15-12 02:21 PM
  14. notfanboy's Avatar
    You hit the nail on the head. Memory contention is the biggest factor when multitasking on the PB. One way I get around this is by using a lot of Android apps which, ironically, seem to consume less RAM than native apps. This is likely due to the more efficient APIs/libraries of Android vs. the bloatware that is AIR, etc. If you re-read my post you'll note that many of the apps I used in the scenario were Android: Twitter, TapaTalk, gReader Pro, Swarm, RepliGo. In fact, other than the browser, email, music player and Docs to Go, I rarely use any native apps. And if I could find viable Android alternatives to these, I'd likely use them as well.
    If you took a video and converted it to a low-res 240p before uploading, you can upload it in a reasonable amount of time.

    I would really like to see your video of your own scenario because I think it will expose the deficiencies in the PB workflow. (I'd make that video myself, but I'd have to borrow the PB I handed down to my nephew.)

    The video shows that the GSIII was able to fly through your workflow without even breaking a sweat. Where possible, I even increased the level of difficulty. For instance I used the both the voice dictation feature and text to speech, which are memory and CPU intensive. I substituted apps with a bigger footprint (e.g. Zite vs gReader). Behind the scenes, the system was also running a bunch of background processes and here is just a partial list: Tripit, Where's my Droid, FlightTrack, Cisco Webex, Magicjack, Dell Voice, etc.

    If you post the corresponding video, it will put the lie to certain claims that you made, (which is why I don't think this video will ever get made). To be more specific, I think you will run into a memory constraint at some point particularly when you mix in DocsToGo. I also think that the task switching will take a longer time for the simple fact that ICS shows four apps on one screen on the task switcher, while PB shows one full app and two half-thumbnails. Another prediction is that there will be lot of swiping around in the app drawer when you are launching the apps for the first time. In short, if one were to do a time and motion study, that there will be a more swipes, taps, and key presses. (To be fair let's exclude the voice dictation features)

    I think many here would agree with me that a video would help cut through the BS and show the truth. Too much theorizing, too much FUD mongering, let's just get to the plain evidence.
    mikeo007 likes this.
    10-15-12 03:46 PM
  15. airbbtran's Avatar
    didn't OP just asked how PB mult task? why is everyone comparing to other OS?
    10-15-12 04:09 PM
  16. notfanboy's Avatar
    didn't OP just asked how PB mult task? why is everyone comparing to other OS?
    Because the OP explicitly asked what makes PB multitasking different. It's impossible to discuss that in a vacuum.
    mikeo007 likes this.
    10-15-12 04:17 PM
  17. Toodeurep's Avatar
    I keep hearing that the PlayBook is unique in terms of its multitasking capability. How does it multitask? Can you point to an example?

    I know it will play music in the background when you're doing something else, but so will every other tablet in the world. Where is the unique multitasking ability?
    After all these comparisons has anybody been able to replicate my scenario on any other platform? I have an iPad and a Galaxy S device and have been unable to use them in the same manner. This could simply be a setting or method that I haven't thought to try so if so please share.

    For those that have missed my example:

    Launch the camera app and begin taking video. Now switch to other apps like browser, music player, etc. The video doesn't stop recording.
    10-15-12 06:32 PM
  18. mikeo007's Avatar
    After all these comparisons has anybody been able to replicate my scenario on any other platform? I have an iPad and a Galaxy S device and have been unable to use them in the same manner. This could simply be a setting or method that I haven't thought to try so if so please share.

    For those that have missed my example:

    Launch the camera app and begin taking video. Now switch to other apps like browser, music player, etc. The video doesn't stop recording.
    Not possible on stock iOS. Easy with apps from Cydia, but most people here complain that jailbreak comparisons aren't fair.
    Toodeurep likes this.
    10-15-12 07:11 PM
  19. esk369's Avatar
    After all these comparisons has anybody been able to replicate my scenario on any other platform? I have an iPad and a Galaxy S device and have been unable to use them in the same manner. This could simply be a setting or method that I haven't thought to try so if so please share.

    For those that have missed my example:

    Launch the camera app and begin taking video. Now switch to other apps like browser, music player, etc. The video doesn't stop recording.
    Been trying with my t300 can't do it well let me clarify I haven't been able to do it.
    Toodeurep likes this.
    10-15-12 07:20 PM
  20. howarmat's Avatar
    For those that want to see real multitasking, start shooting a video with your PB (or other tablet), now switch to the browser or any other app. Come back to the PB, did the video stop? The Playbook's doesn't stop. That is the real multitasking that I need. Playbook wins here.
    doesnt work for me on my nexus
    Toodeurep likes this.
    10-15-12 07:25 PM
  21. Jet B's Avatar
    doesnt work for me on my nexus
    Can you please try it on your PlayBook? I think you will find the result interesting.
    10-15-12 07:43 PM
  22. notfanboy's Avatar
    Launch the camera app and begin taking video. Now switch to other apps like browser, music player, etc. The video doesn't stop recording.
    If you use the stock camera it will indeed stop recording. This is not an OS limitation though. It's the developer's decision to stop recording when switched out to the background, probably to save space and battery. Proof that it's not an OS limitation? There are a number of apps like Mobile Hidden Camera which supports "Background shooting show the device’s desktop, run other apps on top or even put it to standby mode while silently shooting in the background"
    Toodeurep likes this.
    10-15-12 07:47 PM
  23. howarmat's Avatar
    Can you please try it on your PlayBook? I think you will find the result interesting.
    i already know it works on the pb, but why is that interesting?
    10-15-12 07:48 PM
  24. Jet B's Avatar
    i already know it works on the pb, but why is that interesting?
    Humour me.
    10-15-12 07:57 PM
  25. esk369's Avatar
    But the playbook can I just recorded a six minute video and had the browser open with YouTube then I opened my email and sent one to myself while I also had a song playing the I then opened the video store and browsed a cpl of movies the whole time the video camera kept recording it also picked up the song I had playing in the background.
    So it would seem that the pb is so far the only device that can do that.
    For me the big picture is the pb imo is a multitasking beast my t300 aint no slacker on the multitasking as well and I'm still learning android os and NAFB Samsung rocks it also impressive for a handset I think they got it right but I'm really looking forward to bbx as I'm really impressed with some of the demos I have seen.
    Btw I will not be posting the video of me and the gf in the bedroom as we are in our pj's
    10-15-12 07:57 PM
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