10-24-12 09:53 PM
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  1. esk369's Avatar
    I didn't know that there was a infallibility option on the pb dude I would have got that version of the pb instead lol.
    I still want to see notafanboys video demo I'm sure someone will counter with a pb submission don't have the tech how to agree or disagree on the parameters of the demo and lets face it there is room for one who is motivated to manipulate there submissions on both sides that would have to be worked out primarily by the 2 tech studs who are involved and I'm sure there will be plenty qualified and those who are not to cry foul at any possible misleading aspects of the demo.
    Its something I'd really like to see.
    10-14-12 05:04 PM
  2. rkennedy01's Avatar
    Way to be civil. Maybe don't make claims you're not willing to back up.
    Excuse me? I never made any claims. I simply walked through a usage scenario from my own experience. It's this other troll fellow who is claiming to be able to reproduce the same under Android, a feat I myself have been unable to accomplish after much trying over several months. So I called his bluff and he has since refused to backup his claim and is instead trying to steer the conversation away from his original boast.

    How is any of this so confusing to you that you would draw such an erroneous conclusion? Did you even bother to read the relevant thread posts?

    RCK
    10-14-12 05:13 PM
  3. notfanboy's Avatar
    So earlier today, RKENNEDY made a post describing a typical workload: "a true and PRACTICAL example of multitasking in action and involves a mixture of 10 native and Android apps all running concurrently. It's a workload that will bury most Android tabs and (I'm assuming) iOS."

    He further goes on to say " Trust me, I've tried to replicate it with my heavily tweaked/optimized Acer Iconia Tab A200 running ICS. Not only was it impossible to keep track of all those apps using Android's crude "recent apps" list, half the time the app I was switching back to had been closed in the background by the OS, forcing a complete reload and (often) a loss of context/state/where the heck I was when I first switched away. Absolutely maddening, as was the general sluggishness and in,stability that would set-in with Android after an hour or so of jumping between apps."

    I replied that I could replicate his scenario on the Galaxy SIII with none of the problems he described. He then called me a liar and a troll. So I made a video so everyone can make up their own minds. As you watch it, please look for instances where the context is lost (supposedly often), where the app has been closed (supposedly half the time), sluggishness or instability.

    The video is in two parts. Part Two is quite short, so I uploaded it first. Part One is still uploading.

    The video is unedited. The reason it is in two parts is because the scenario called for receiving an email with a PDF attachment, and I didn't have one prepared. I stopped the video, sent myself an email, and finished recording Part Two: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xub...tasking-2_tech
    mikeo007, howarmat and esk369 like this.
    10-14-12 05:17 PM
  4. notfanboy's Avatar
    Excuse me? I never made any claims. I simply walked through a usage scenario from my own experience. It's this other troll fellow who is claiming to be able to reproduce the same under Android, a feat I myself have been unable to accomplish after much trying over several months. So I called his bluff and he has since refused to backup his claim and is instead trying to steer the conversation away from his original boast.

    How is any of this so confusing to you that you would draw such an erroneous conclusion? Did you even bother to read the relevant thread posts?

    RCK
    Bluff called, eh? Well here are my cards, now turn over yours.
    mikeo007 likes this.
    10-14-12 05:25 PM
  5. mikeo007's Avatar
    Excuse me? I never made any claims. I simply walked through a usage scenario from my own experience. It's this other troll fellow who is claiming to be able to reproduce the same under Android, a feat I myself have been unable to accomplish after much trying over several months. So I called his bluff and he has since refused to backup his claim and is instead trying to steer the conversation away from his original boast.

    How is any of this so confusing to you that you would draw such an erroneous conclusion? Did you even bother to read the relevant thread posts?

    RCK
    Keep calling him a troll, it makes you look more and more foolish each time. He stepped up to the plate, yet all i see you doing is name-calling.
    10-14-12 05:29 PM
  6. esk369's Avatar
    @notafanboy.
    Thanks for the video is part one a little longer because I don't see it yet?
    But I must say I'm impressed I thought you would be doing your demo on a tab but as I said I'm impressed even more so by the fact that its a phone.
    Nice demo.
    mikeo007 likes this.
    10-14-12 05:46 PM
  7. rkennedy01's Avatar
    Bluff called, eh? Well here are my cards, now turn over yours.
    Wow! I describe a multi-stage workflow scenario that involved opening and switching between 10 separate apps repeatedly, over an hour or two of actual work, and you respond with...a 1 minute and 19 second task switching demo? Of mostly static apps? On a phone? Wow...just wow!

    Since to properly demonstrate what I described in my original post would take several hours to reproduce, film and upload (the connections are rather slow from the Indian Ocean), I hereby concede the debate. Your demo was THAT compelling. The PB clearly sucks and "Droid RULZ!"

    Way to go, dude! You truly are a multitasking powerhouse! I kneel before your epic awesomeness! ;-)

    RCK
    10-14-12 05:52 PM
  8. notfanboy's Avatar
    @notafanboy.
    Thanks for the video is part one a little longer because I don't see it yet?
    But I must say I'm impressed I thought you would be doing your demo on a tab but as I said I'm impressed even more so by the fact that its a phone.
    Nice demo.
    Thanks for watching! Part One is about 15 minutes long and has most of the steps. It is still uploading. If you're bored by the length and repetitiveness, blame RCK's for his 30-step scenario. A lot of the time I was looking off to the side trying to read what step I was supposed to be doing at the time. Also please excuse the blurriness.. It was tricky to operate the phone with a camera in front of my face and my arms wrapped around the tripod.
    10-14-12 05:54 PM
  9. mikeo007's Avatar
    Wow! I describe a multi-stage workflow scenario that involved opening and switching between 10 separate apps repeatedly, over an hour or two of actual work, and you respond with...a 1 minute and 19 second task switching demo? Of mostly static apps? On a phone? Wow...just wow!

    Since to properly demonstrate what I described in my original post would take several hours to reproduce, film and upload (the connections are rather slow from the Indian Ocean), I hereby concede the debate. Your demo was THAT compelling. The PB clearly sucks and "Droid RULZ!"

    Way to go, dude! You truly are a multitasking powerhouse! I kneel before your epic awesomeness! ;-)

    RCK
    Here, let me help you with that.

    Attachment 123047
    10-14-12 05:56 PM
  10. missing_K-W's Avatar
    I didn't get much out of the video except a bunch of navigating the OS....what's the point?
    10-14-12 06:06 PM
  11. esk369's Avatar
    Thanks for watching! Part One is about 15 minutes long and has most of the steps. It is still uploading. If you're bored by the length and repetitiveness, blame RCK's for his 30-step scenario. A lot of the time I was looking off to the side trying to read what step I was supposed to be doing at the time. Also please excuse the blurriness.. It was tricky to operate the phone with a camera in front of my face and my arms wrapped around the tripod.
    I'm really not looking to take sides and just wish that would have been represented a little better then it was I will say your a man of your word you talked the talk and you did infact walk it too. When you were verbally called names you responded the right way and I thank you for that.
    I use both platforms on tablets and I'm getting ready to have a htc evo 4g ulocked so I can play around with it on boost mobile.
    I like both my tablets although I'm having trouble with learning certain aspects of android on my transformer the pb is also great for my brand of multitasking as I keep repeating I'm tech challenged.
    Now I know where to go with my android questions hope I don't become a pest lol.
    10-14-12 06:07 PM
  12. esk369's Avatar
    Wow! I describe a multi-stage workflow scenario that involved opening and switching between 10 separate apps repeatedly, over an hour or two of actual work, and you respond with...a 1 minute and 19 second task switching demo? Of mostly static apps? On a phone? Wow...just wow!

    Since to properly demonstrate what I described in my original post would take several hours to reproduce, film and upload (the connections are rather slow from the Indian Ocean), I hereby concede the debate. Your demo was THAT compelling. The PB clearly sucks and "Droid RULZ!"

    Way to go, dude! You truly are a multitasking powerhouse! I kneel before your epic awesomeness! ;-)

    RCK
    Again I'm not trying to take sides I don't think notafanboy ever tried to say the pb sux and droid rules as to the content in his video I liked it but I'm not qualified to judge true multitasking from multigrain.
    I still think you have a valid viewpoint but I just can't agree with your approach agree to disagree is just the right thing we are talking about hardware and software and that's all.
    world saviour and notfanboy like this.
    10-14-12 06:19 PM
  13. missing_K-W's Avatar
    I love many aspects of Android. I am one who is thankful that RIM has embraced the Android app player. There are many great apps that can easily be made functional on PB and BB10. Most of the ones I use are simple and the only frustration I have with Android are the transitions.

    I already mentioned in an earlier post some devs dedicate hundreds of hours to their apps and maintenance on Android currently thus making it uneconomical and impractical to support multiple platforms. To be able to monetize on two platforms is great, and goes with the FULL OPEN SOURCE nature of BlackBerry 10 development. Not having the Android runtime would go against the FULL OPEN SOURCE nature of the platform.

    Android devs will make money through appworld thus have incentive to port, repackage and built natively if they see fit.
    10-14-12 06:22 PM
  14. Branta's Avatar
    Here, let me help you with that.

    Attachment 123047
    You make a valid point: "When in hole, stop digging!"

    The original post asked a simple question, I don't see a single response yet which attempts to answer it.
    mikeo007 and diegonei like this.
    10-14-12 06:33 PM
  15. jpash549's Avatar
    What a debate. There are two perspectives: (1)The device operator is doing the multitasking between several applications which pause between each call and (2) The device keeps running each program which has been loaded. For example of (2) calculate pi to a jillion places while surfing the web, downloading a file, running Battery Guru and listening to the radio. Multitasking on a Laptop is basically the same but the bigger machine has more memory and processor capability at least if relatively new. What difference does it make if it operates to suit you. Incidentally Android Jelly Bean on the Nexus 7 makes it relatively simple to switch between apps.
    diegonei likes this.
    10-14-12 06:46 PM
  16. notfanboy's Avatar
    Now I know where to go with my android questions hope I don't become a pest lol.
    No problem, just make sure you post the questions in the Android section.


    Part one of the video will finish uploading later tonight. I have to leave right now so I'll put up the notes.

    Here are some things to watch for in part one.
    - I replicated most RCK's 30 step scenario from the beginning with equivalent apps
    - in a couple of places, I used Android's voice dictation when editing the Office document just to save time
    - For the podcast portion, I made my own. I saved an article off the web for offline reading
    - I hooked up a bluetooth mouse and keyboard towards the end
    - I had the ezPDF read out the PDF file to me, with music playing in the background, while browsing the web
    - Watch out for an awkward moment with Yahoo Mail. I only installed Yahoo Mail for this demo to use a pseudonym account, did not want to show my email address. Yahoo apparently does not make URLs into hyperlinks. This problem is of course not present in the stock browser and Gmail

    There were about ten different apps used in the scenario. You'll notice that NOT once did I go to the home screen to launch an app. Instead I used Google Gesture Launch and Dock4Droid. This doesn't change the parameters of the test though. I could have gone to the home screen instead, but finding an app from my 130 or so apps can get tedious, and my home screen is not optimized for RCK's workflow.

    Again watch out for instances where the context is lost (supposedly often), where the app has been closed (supposedly half the time), sluggishness or instability.
    I'll update this post later tonight once Dailymotion has processed the video.
    esk369 likes this.
    10-14-12 06:47 PM
  17. the-elf's Avatar
    Look just use google and look up "real time OS" and "pre-emptive multi-tasking". That describes the PlayBook multitasking. Driod and IOS can not do this.
    10-14-12 07:33 PM
  18. Toodeurep's Avatar
    You make a valid point: "When in hole, stop digging!"

    The original post asked a simple question, I don't see a single response yet which attempts to answer it.
    Are you saying that my example doesn't show a unique multi-tasking function that only the playbook has?

    I keep hearing that the PlayBook is unique in terms of its multitasking capability. How does it multitask? Can you point to an example?

    I know it will play music in the background when you're doing something else, but so will every other tablet in the world. Where is the unique multitasking ability?
    esk369 likes this.
    10-14-12 07:35 PM
  19. diegonei's Avatar
    Yeah, branta, what about my little video? That was a fair attempt to demo how it multitasks!

    Anyway, good branta is right. We. Are. Way. Off. Topic!!!
    10-14-12 07:46 PM
  20. malingering's Avatar
    I'm using a pb 64gb.. I like it.. but about multitasking experience... I found that pb only support viewing and running multi apps windows... I'm expecting more,actually.. I like how the galaxy note 2 10" multitask in multiwindow... you can open multi window of apps... and you can work on them with still multiwindows on the screen...
    10-14-12 11:19 PM
  21. aragone79's Avatar
    guys, if you have PB, iPad, and Android tablet, you can do action like this. open all application that you want. especially for games. try to play games at PB, ipad, Andro Tablet. When you play the game, please switch to other application. for example mobile office. Try to make a document there. then open youtube for streaming. choose a video, and watch it. Next, open your browser, try to browse one or two websites, or try to make multiple tabs runs together. Oh, one more, open other game, and play it also.

    OK, now, lets you switch again to the first game you play. Is the game still running (pause position means the application is still running), switch again to the document you are creating, switch again to youtube player (is the video still running or pause), switch again to the browser, then, switch again to the second game (are you still finding your game is running or pause), last, switch again to the first game (still running or pause).

    If all of that action give you running or pause position, it means that your tablet capable of doing the multitasking. But if you find that the game is close or you have to run again the application from the beginning, means your tablet cannot support multitasking in what Playbook can. That's simple.

    what about email, mp3 player, weather apps, or rss gator? all those apps are designed to run in a background environment. For mp3 player, of course, you can control them. but what about email application? force them to stop? Yes you can, for a while, and after that, they start their services again. Don't trust me? just try it.

    I'm not a fanboy of Playbook, but I do find what multitasking taste in it.
    10-15-12 01:07 AM
  22. rkennedy01's Avatar
    This thread has clearly gone off the rails. Let's see if we can steer it back on course:

    Anybody with experience using Android ICS or later on a tablet: Try living entirely off of your device for a week or more (no PC or Mac to support you). Tell me how many times you need to reboot or use a Task Killer to "unclog" the OS. Tell me how many times it randomly reboots on you due to a faulty app or driver. Tell me how much hair you lose in the process.

    FWIW, I spent over two months in the U.S. with nothing by my Playbook and a collection of a dozen Acer tablets (equipment for a new school I'm building on the island). During that time, I explored every aspect of Android multitasking, performance tuning and custom modding. I swapped out the A200's stock ROM with FLEXREAPER (CM10 is still too unstable), installed godmachine81's kernel and played with all of the options in System Tuner Pro (overclocking, SD card caching, etc.). I carefully tested a variety of apps to find the best combination of browser (ICS+), productivity suite (QuickOffice HD) and email client (native GMail). I spent weeks wiping, re-installing and testing in order to achieve the most stable, responsive configuration I could come up with. And at the end of the process I still went back to my Playbook.

    Why? Because, while I could load up lots of stuff under Android, I could never KEEP it running for any length of time. Whether due to poor memory management, buggy thread scheduling or misbehaved apps not closing properly, the Android user experience would inevitably degrade over a few hours. This degradation would normally manifest itself in randomly closing/reloading apps and general sluggishness/lack of responsiveness in the UI. Occassionally, the whole OS would go south and I'd end up with a random reboot.

    Chrome for Android, in particular, is notorious for taking down ICS and JB devices. Just check the threads over at the xda forums. One of the most ballyhooed new app arrivals for Android this year turned out to be a huge thorn in my side as anytime I'd hit a site with a DISQUS login the browser would lock up the tablet. Not just the app. The entire tablet, requiring a complete power cycle (and sometimes more than one - the Dalvik cache can get so screwed up at times that even a reboot won't fix things and you have to manually wipe it in CWM).

    In the end, I was forced to downgrade back to the stock browser and, eventually, switched to ICS+ since it wraps the stock engine with more options (like the ability to force Desktop mode). Of course, this limited my browsing capabilities as the stock ICS engine is terrible. And forget about Dolphin - I tried the "engine beta" and found it even quirkier than Chrome. It was a huge step back from the class leading compatibility of the PB's browser (though the bookmark management was a nice change of pace).

    I encountered similar instability issues when running common apps (Swarm, gReader Pro, TapaTalk) in the "background" (i.e. their headless communications threads working as background processes and updating me via the system tray notification area). Assuming the tablet hadn't crashed, I'd find myself reaching for ES Task Manager and just hitting "kill all" every hour or so. It was the only way to keep the environment stable/responsive enough to get anything done. Eventually, even that wasn't enough, so I'd end up rebooting to get a fresh start.

    I'm documenting all of this here because I see everyone focusing on how many apps you can quickly load up and task switch between when the real issue is usability over the course of hours or days. Sure, I can load a bunch of stuff up on one of my Android tabs and, provided I don't leave anything running for too long, I can switch between them and even accomplish some pseudo-multitasking. But if I try to sit down and get some real work done, eventually, the wheels are going to fall off and I'll find myself cursing at the screen.

    I make this statement based on many weeks of research and a genuine effort to migrate to Android as my daily driver. I have no allegiance to RIM and I'm still pissed off at them for the limited application selection in OS 2.1. However, I also know that, no matter how much I throw at it over the course of a day, my Playbook will remain stable and responsive. I don't need to worry about Task Managers or misbehaved apps. If a program goes south, I just close it's "window." The rest of the OS and any concurrent apps keeps chugging along.

    Perhaps the best way to explain the difference between Android/iOS and QNX is by invoking a PC analogy: Google and Apple have built an OS platform akin to Windows 95/98, while RIM is offering up the equivalent of Windows NT. One runs really fast for a while but is highly unstable and will eventually fail if you push it too hard. The other is robust from the ground up and can take whatever you throw at it in stride.

    With QNX, it's all about reliability and stability. And just as it was difficult to explain to a layman the advantages of Windows NT over windows 9x circa 1999-2000, it's equally hard to explain to undemanding consumers why you'd want a QNX-based device over one running Android/iOS. For many of them, the "Windows 95" of mobile platforms is all they really need. But for some, the idea of a robust, secure platform that doesn't let them down in the middle of the workday is quite appealing, and for these individuals the Playbook's myriad qualities are indeed worth a (now temporary - bring on BB10) sacrifice in terms of app selection.

    Anyway, I'm done. Enjoy your Android tablets and smartphones - and think of me while waiting through your next random reboot.

    RCK
    10-15-12 04:41 AM
  23. mikeo007's Avatar
    This thread has clearly gone off the rails. Let's see if we can steer it back on course:
    Seriously? You try to bring the thread about Playbook multitasking back on course by complaining about Android multitasking AGAIN?

    This thread has run its course. Toodeurep has provided the best practical example of Playbook multitasking. There's more than enough info in here for people to continue their research.
    10-15-12 07:44 AM
  24. notfanboy's Avatar
    guys, if you have PB, iPad, and Android tablet, you can do action like this. open all application that you want. especially for games. try to play games at PB, ipad, Andro Tablet. When you play the game, please switch to other application. for example mobile office. Try to make a document there. then open youtube for streaming. choose a video, and watch it. Next, open your browser, try to browse one or two websites, or try to make multiple tabs runs together. Oh, one more, open other game, and play it also.

    OK, now, lets you switch again to the first game you play. Is the game still running (pause position means the application is still running), switch again to the document you are creating, switch again to youtube player (is the video still running or pause), switch again to the browser, then, switch again to the second game (are you still finding your game is running or pause), last, switch again to the first game (still running or pause).

    If all of that action give you running or pause position, it means that your tablet capable of doing the multitasking. But if you find that the game is close or you have to run again the application from the beginning, means your tablet cannot support multitasking in what Playbook can. That's simple.
    .
    I don't know why people think these capabilities is unique to the PB. Best guess: previous experiences on cheap tablets, older versions of Android, misinformation, or just a strong desire to hang on to a perceived advantage. I just tried the above scenario on the GSIII and had no problems.

    I started out with Cogs and switched out in the middle of a game.
    Switched over to Office Suite Pro. The Word document I had been editing 16 hours ago (I never bothered saving it) was open in the same place I left it. Watched a Youtube video. Launched Reddit is fun, it was in the same place it was from a day ago. Watched a video inside Reddit's embedded browser. Opened a couple of web pages in Chrome. Played a bit of Cut the Rope, switched out while a spider was on it's way to the candy. Back to the original Cogs game. It was nicely paused. Switched back and forth to the other open apps. Everything was in context. Finally back to Cut the Rope, where the spider was still making its way to the candy.

    Of course memory is not infinite, so there will come a time when the apps will be swapped out. If I were to start my biggest game, Gameloft's Dark Knight Rises, then an OS has a choice. Complain that it is out of memory, or send a message to the other apps to shut themselves down, and the other apps will save state as needed. For instance, I would not lose my unsaved Word document because it would have saved it in a temporary "recovered file".

    As for rkennedy's latest rant, my video proof is coming shortly.
    10-15-12 08:54 AM
  25. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    Sorry, but multitasking doesn't mean what many people in here THINK it means.

    And it's beyond me why the Playbooks faulty implementation of multitasking is being held up as some example to emulate?!?

    Take Aragones example with the video player or game pausing when you go out of it. OF COURSE IT DOES!!!
    It has nothing to do with iOS or Android not implementing "real" multitasking. The operating system in an iPad or Galaxy tab can multitask just as well as a Playbook. It has to do with good design and implementing multitasking in an intelligent way.

    The screen on a 7 inch device is to small to realistically use two apps side by side, and you don't want to force the user to press pause EVERY single time he goes out of the video player to check his mail. So it's done automatically...

    That a video game pauses when you go out of it is NOT a sign of a lack of multitasking. It's just a user friendly and intelligent implementation of multitasking (think about all the other background processes that go on at the same time, while you're playing your game), since I don't want to come back to the game and discover that I've been killed/driven into a building just because I went out of the game to check my email and forgot to press pause.
    10-15-12 09:27 AM
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