10-24-12 09:53 PM
202 12345 ...
tools
  1. axeman1000's Avatar
    Very handy thanks that is how the playbook multitasks. Bush sang it best in machinehead, better than the rest!
    bay1902 likes this.
    10-14-12 03:30 AM
  2. rkennedy01's Avatar
    UPDATED: I've posted a video showing the following scenario reproduced live on my own Playbook:

    http://forums.crackberry.com/showthr...53#post7680453

    ------------------------------------------------
    Wow. These are some truly lame examples of multitasking. Perhaps a majority of users don't actually need to multitask as part of their daily workloads - e.g. they're more into "serial" multitasking, which is really just app switching. By contrast, knowledge workers (like myself) often need to juggle multiple, concurrent workflow processes in order to complete the task at hand.

    For example, as a professional journalist, I'm often writing, researching and communicating all at the same time. So my typical workload might look like this:

    1. Open newsreader app (gReader Pro - Android) to look for story ideas.
    2. Open web browser (Android) to further research a story. Perhaps switch to the native browser if Android chokes on link (common).
    3. Open forums app (TapaTalk - Android) to see what others are saying about the story.
    4. Open music player (native) because I'm settling in for an extended writing session and need some Def Leppard.
    5. Open word processor (Docs to Go - native) and start sketching outlines of new story idea.
    6. Switch back to newsreader to confirm a quote.
    7. Switch back to browser to check another source/site.
    8. Open podcast app (native) to follow up on link I found in the forums app (pausing music player)
    9. Respond to incoming email that includes link to interesting clip related to story.
    10. Open torrents app (Swarm - Android) since the link is to a torrent containing the full clip and start download.
    11. Switch back to forums app to post initial ideas for article/solicit feedback.
    12. Open Twitter app (Official App - Android) and post tweet soliciting input on the article idea.
    13. Switch back to podcast app and pause streaming.
    14. Switch back to music player and resume playback exactly where I left off.
    15. Switch back to email app and start composing email to editor about article idea.
    16. While in email app, respond to another note from colleague using a separate message tab.
    17. Switch back to newsreader app and refresh story list to see if any new developments.
    18. Open Youtube app (native) to follow-up on clip from new newsreader story.
    19. Switch back to word processor to continue fleshing out story.
    20. Open Calendar app (native) to propose a meeting for that afternoon to discuss potential fall-out from story.
    21. Switch back to email app to check incoming mail with attachment (PDF).
    22. Open PDF in Adobe Reader (native) or RepliGo (Android), depending on its length/complexity.
    23. Switch back to podcast app and resume streaming (pause music playback first).
    24. More writing in word processor app - thankfully, I have an external BT keyboard/mouse for this stuff.
    25. Another email - this time from editor. Open a new email tab to fire-off note to contact at company in story for quote.
    26. Switch back to forums app to check for responses. Reply to new thread on topic and also follow link to related story.
    27. Another podcast/music player switch out.
    28. Switch back to Twitter app to check for responses. Reply to several comments.
    29. Switch back to calendar app to confirm meeting time, etc.
    30. Back to word processor - more writing.

    Note: All of the above took place before 10:00AM. This is a true and PRACTICAL example of multitasking in action and involves a mixture of 10 native and Android apps all running concurrently. It's a workload that will bury most Android tabs and (I'm assuming) iOS. Trust me, I've tried to replicate it with my heavily tweaked/optimized Acer Iconia Tab A200 running ICS. Not only was it impossible to keep track of all those apps using Android's crude "recent apps" list, half the time the app I was switching back to had been closed in the background by the OS, forcing a complete reload and (often) a loss of context/state/where the heck I was when I first switched away.

    Absolutely maddening, as was the general sluggishness and instability that would set-in with Android after an hour or so of jumping between apps. By contrast, my PB remained silky smooth throughout. So if you don't get why some professionals prefer the PB over devices based on Android or iOS, chances are you're simply not demanding enough - in terms of your daily workload - to notice the difference. For those of us who need to get stuff done, efficiently and on a deadline, QNX is simply the better tool.

    RCK
    Last edited by rkennedy01; 10-16-12 at 04:19 PM.
    10-14-12 03:42 AM
  3. bay1902's Avatar
    now this is exactly what I'm talking about. great example of how android slows down and becomes sluggish, plus over time not even a restart clears this, only a reflash. do we need to do this with pb QNX...nope
    10-14-12 04:24 AM
  4. Herve5's Avatar
    Playbook:
    Use 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 fingers and swipe to one side
    There is no 2
    There is no 3

    I think the OP is actually a troll and was pissed off having spent time to answer. You made my day.
    esk369 likes this.
    10-14-12 04:38 AM
  5. notfanboy's Avatar
    Wow. These are some truly lame examples of multitasking. Perhaps a majority of users don't actually need to multitask as part of their daily workloads - e.g. they're more into "serial" multitasking, which is really just app switching. By contrast, knowledge workers (like myself) often need to juggle multiple, concurrent workflow processes in order to complete the task at hand.

    For example, as a professional journalist, I'm often writing, researching and communicating all at the same time. So my typical workload might look like this:

    Note: All of the above took place before 10:00AM. This is a true and PRACTICAL example of multitasking in action and involves a mixture of 10 native and Android apps all running concurrently. It's a workload that will bury most Android tabs and (I'm assuming) iOS. Trust me, I've tried to replicate it with my heavily tweaked/optimized Acer Iconia Tab A200 running ICS. Not only was it impossible to keep track of all those apps using Android's crude "recent apps" list, half the time the app I was switching back to had been closed in the background by the OS, forcing a complete reload and (often) a loss of context/state/where the heck I was when I first switched away.

    Absolutely maddening, as was the general sluggishness and instability that would set-in with Android after an hour or so of jumping between apps. By contrast, my PB remained silky smooth throughout. So if you don't get why some professionals prefer the PB over devices based on Android or iOS, chances are you're simply not demanding enough - in terms of your daily workload - to notice the difference. For those of us who need to get stuff done, efficiently and on a deadline, QNX is simply the better tool.
    Um, I can easily do everything you listed in your list from 1-30 on my stock Galaxy SIII or Nexus 7. None of the issues you describe, such as losing context or sluggishness exist on these stock, untweaked devices. Partly because of the certain OS features, and partly because of the better choice and quality of the apps, productivity is higher in Android for the workflow you described. You should not generalize "Android" from your experience with a crappy Acer tablet.
    Last edited by notafanboy; 10-14-12 at 09:42 AM.
    10-14-12 08:43 AM
  6. Revampd's Avatar
    Also doable on most other tablets.
    Here are things that the iPad can do in the background in 3rd party apps(need to use your imagination as to how they're implemented in apps).
    In addition to this, Apple apps can perform true multitasking since they aren't bound by the app store review process. This is why you can stream videos, download apps in the BG, load web pages, etc.
    Anything that's not on this list is probably something that only the Playbook can do as a background task, such as the video camera example above.

    1. Audio
    2. VoiP
    3. Location
    4. Push notifications
    5. Local notifications (pre-set)
    6. Task completion (finish a single thread in the background; could be a very complex process)
    7. State save
    8. Background download
    9. Communicate with external accessory
    Well, it's download and install. I'm certainly no expert but that seemed like multitasking to me.
    10-14-12 08:46 AM
  7. mikeo007's Avatar
    Well, it's download and install. I'm certainly no expert but that seemed like multitasking to me.
    You're certainly right. The OP was asking for what made the Playbook's multitasking unique or different though. Your example is doable on most tablets, so it's not unique to the Playbook.
    10-14-12 09:06 AM
  8. esk369's Avatar

    I think the OP is actually a troll and was pissed off having spent time to answer. You made my day.
    Thank you sir for you are correct he abandons his post because he tried to defend from a week postion he did infact cast out a wide net and was not satisfied with his catch.
    I see I missed a lot on this thread yesterday had a lot of potential to get UUUGLY but for the most part everyone was cool this should have never been about PB vs Apple vs android even if that was op's goal just a civil discussion about multitasking.
    After all its all about what works for the individual and RESPECT its ok to agree to disagree
    Madman I blame the NYY losing last night on those birds of Baltimore my fear is we may have peeked on fighting u guys.
    GO NYY!!!!!!!!!!:cool
    Go NYG BIG BLUE WRECKING CREW.
    I'm such a sports tool
    10-14-12 10:00 AM
  9. Revampd's Avatar
    You're certainly right. The OP was asking for what made the Playbook's multitasking unique or different though. Your example is doable on most tablets, so it's not unique to the Playbook.
    Yes, I was just chiming in with what a Playbook can do in that regard. I've never used another tablet so I can't compare. I'll chime out and just continue reading this thread. I might learn something.
    10-14-12 10:12 AM
  10. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Some multitasking examples

    1- operating 2 or more instances of an OS in unison on the same hardware. QNX can also operate itself on the same hardware as a 2 or more. That's correct QNX neutrino can have itself on the same hardware times 2 or more. Wrap your head around that (message passing between themselves all in real time.....No dual boot required)

    2- distributed multiprocessing. We could have a quad core device dedicated to have one core operating with another core full time (of anther QNX based device) sharing resources to the core between the two. In fact we could have 100 dual core Playbook's all sharing the core resources of each PlayBook. Now that's multitasking....take this one step further and have these Playbook's tied into a central server with QNX multiplying it self by 3 with support for 32 cores for each combing the total to 96 processors all seamlessely in real time with zero latency distributing the same program amongst 100 devices. And the entire time QNX recognizes it self as "one"

    3- quad core example with Asymmetrical multiprocessing. Since QNX can operate multiple instances of it self on the same device it can also do that with Linux. Android so happens to be Linux. Open the Android Player and dedicate 2 cores to Android and 2 cores to BB10 native processes.

    4- zero latency between intensive CPU demanding programs . Ex, 64 bit audio with zero latency while playing a 3D graphic intense application in parallel all in real time.

    5-Multi headed display. Such as what we see with peek and flow. Take this one step further and pull the screen off of another device utilizing distributed processing. If iOS and Android could do this they would be already.

    6-A big one here and most important to myself. Allow the end user to decide the multitasking instead of developers and limitations. The end user should dictate the end result. If a client has a demand for certain software and interactions thereof. We shouldn't have companies setting limits to multitasking and/or devs beings limited to core functions as it stands on other platforms.

    These are just a few examples. None of which the competition is capable of. "True multitasking" is what stands when there are no limits to creative potential.
    esk369 and bdegrande like this.
    10-14-12 10:37 AM
  11. mikeo007's Avatar
    Some multitasking examples

    1- operating 2 or more instances of an OS in unison on the same hardware. QNX can also operate itself on the same hardware as a 2 or more. That's correct QNX neutrino can have itself on the same hardware times 2 or more. Wrap your head around that (message passing between themselves all in real time.....No dual boot required)

    2- distributed multiprocessing. We could have a quad core device dedicated to have one core operating with another core full time (of anther QNX based device) sharing resources to the core between the two. In fact we could have 100 dual core Playbook's all sharing the core resources of each PlayBook. Now that's multitasking....take this one step further and have these Playbook's tied into a central server with QNX multiplying it self by 3 with support for 32 cores for each combing the total to 96 processors all seamlessely in real time with zero latency distributing the same program amongst 100 devices. And the entire time QNX recognizes it self as "one"

    3- quad core example with Asymmetrical multiprocessing. Since QNX can operate multiple instances of it self on the same device it can also do that with Linux. Android so happens to be Linux. Open the Android Player and dedicate 2 cores to Android and 2 cores to BB10 native processes.

    4- zero latency between intensive CPU demanding programs . Ex, 64 bit audio with zero latency while playing a 3D graphic intense application in parallel all in real time.

    5-Multi headed display. Such as what we see with peek and flow. Take this one step further and pull the screen off of another device utilizing distributed processing. If iOS and Android could do this they would be already.

    6-A big one here and most important to myself. Allow the end user to decide the multitasking instead of developers and limitations. The end user should dictate the end result. If a client has a demand for certain software and interactions thereof. We shouldn't have companies setting limits to multitasking and/or devs beings limited to core functions as it stands on other platforms.

    These are just a few examples. None of which the competition is capable of. "True multitasking" is what stands when there are no limits to creative potential.
    There are no practical examples of multitasking on the Playbook here. QNX is a multiprocessing beast, but Playbook really isn't using much of that potential yet.
    10-14-12 10:50 AM
  12. esk369's Avatar
    @missing_k-w.
    I'm very impressed I'm not a tech stud and I didn't understand a lot of the terminology but still impressed with your knowledge.
    I don't know the difference between qnx kernels from a kernel of corn or kernel sanders lol.
    A multiprocessing beast indeed
    10-14-12 10:55 AM
  13. missing_K-W's Avatar
    There are no practical examples of multitasking on the Playbook here. QNX is a multiprocessing beast, but Playbook really isn't using much of that potential yet.
    The PlayBook is only currently showing the tip-of-the-tip of the ice berg as far as multitasking capabilities are concerned. In the infant state of PB multitasking relative to other consumer OS's it outperforms them by a long shot. Already it eclipses that of the others in many instances. There has already been some good examples( in this thread). We'll see plenty more. All the goodies start to come with BlackBerry 10.

    What I described in my previous post is the tip of the ice berg. The rest is unimaginable to a certain degree, unless your in the front seat of computer sciences and pushing new frontiers.
    esk369 likes this.
    10-14-12 10:58 AM
  14. rkennedy01's Avatar
    Um, I can easily do everything you listed in your list from 1-30 on my stock Galaxy SIII or Nexus 7. None of the issues you describe, such as losing context or sluggishness exist on these stock, untweaked devices. Partly because of the certain OS features, and partly because of the better choice and quality of the apps, productivity is higher in Android for the workflow you described. You should not generalize "Android" from your experience with a crappy Acer tablet.
    Total BS. The issues I pointed to are architectural flaws in Android and thus hardware agnostic. Don't try to change the subject by playing the hardware snob card like all the other Google apologists.

    RCK

    Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk 2
    diegonei likes this.
    10-14-12 10:58 AM
  15. missing_K-W's Avatar
    There are no practical examples of multitasking on the Playbook here. QNX is a multiprocessing beast, but Playbook really isn't using much of that potential yet.
    Yes there was. There is currently the Android Player. Multitasking of another OS
    diegonei likes this.
    10-14-12 11:08 AM
  16. missing_K-W's Avatar
    @missing_k-w.
    I'm very impressed I'm not a tech stud and I didn't understand a lot of the terminology but still impressed with your knowledge.
    I don't know the difference between qnx kernels from a kernel of corn or kernel sanders lol.
    A multiprocessing beast indeed
    I'm just a tech enthusiast. No expert. I am at some point going to start developing. I can envision some cool stuff! Might as well be an active participant.
    esk369 likes this.
    10-14-12 11:17 AM
  17. mikeo007's Avatar
    Yes there was. There is currently the Android Player. Multitasking of another OS
    The Android player isn't actually running Android OS from what I understand. It's just an interpreter for the Java code or a Dalvik JVM. That's why you can't run native android apps.

    Your example #1 is actually happening on the Playbook, but it's not being put to good use. QNX's entire SMP implementation can be stored in the processor cache, but Playbook really doesn't show any benefit from this yet.

    I agree that there is huge potential, but there's also a huge amount of work involved in realizing that potential.
    esk369 likes this.
    10-14-12 11:21 AM
  18. diegonei's Avatar
    Yes there was. There is currently the Android Player. Multitasking of another OS
    I was going to reply to him, but your examples so much better.

    Guess it is safe to say we reached a conclusion. Other tablets can multitask. Some implementations of Android (bug not Android as a whole) are very good at it. iOS is on the rear on this one (but it still can multitask to some extent).

    Mikeo007. Wait. What? You can't run native android apps? You just lost all points there. Dunno if it was bad choice of words... But that's simply wrong. Not being able to access Google Services is not the same as not running native apps (which we CAN do).

    Rooted PlayBooks can use the market (now Google Play) and install directly, remember? And when I 1st tried the Player I installed the Android browser. Can't be more native that that...
    10-14-12 11:23 AM
  19. notfanboy's Avatar
    Total BS. The issues I pointed to are architectural flaws in Android and thus hardware agnostic. Don't try to change the subject by playing the hardware snob card like all the other Google apologists.
    Using the scenario that you described, I can create and post a video and show which one of us is full of BS.
    10-14-12 11:26 AM
  20. missing_K-W's Avatar
    The Android player isn't actually running Android OS from what I understand. It's just an interpreter for the Java code or a Dalvik JVM. That's why you can't run native android apps.

    Your example #1 is actually happening on the Playbook, but it's not being put to good use. QNX's entire SMP implementation can be stored in the processor cache, but Playbook really doesn't show any benefit from this yet.

    I agree that there is huge potential, but there's also a huge amount of work involved in realizing that potential.
    RIM's goal is to have the markets premier Android runtime. Have to wait and see what they do with newer versions of Android and whether they decide to allow native apps to be ported over. Time will tell. Have to keep an eye on what API's will be supported in the future.
    10-14-12 11:30 AM
  21. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Using the scenario that you described, I can create and post a video and show which one of us is full of BS.
    Some of us are just more aware of the core architecture of each OS. Android may appear grand at the surface, however Google has a top down approach with the millions of lines of Android code. Bringing forth surface optimization. At the bottom they are patching in multitasking and support for multicore optimization etc. QNX only has 100000 lines of code to manage and anything that the consumer space demands has been a part of core architecture for years already. Android will never be a tight OS. Google is currently doing to Android what RIM was doing to BBOS. Patching it
    10-14-12 11:36 AM
  22. mikeo007's Avatar
    RIM's goal is to have the markets premier Android runtime. Have to wait and see what they do with newer versions of Android and whether they decide to allow native apps to be ported over. Time will tell. Have to keep an eye on what API's will be supported in the future.
    Do you really think that's their goal? I would assume that they would rather have a fledging market of their own without having to worry about Android at all.
    10-14-12 11:37 AM
  23. mikeo007's Avatar
    Some of us are just more aware of the core architecture of each OS. Android may appear grand at the surface, however Google has a top down approach with the millions of lines of Android code. Bringing forth surface optimization. At the bottom they are patching in multitasking and support for multicore optimization etc. QNX only has 100000 lines of code to manage and anything that the consumer space demands has been a part of core architecture for years already. Android will never be a tight OS. Google is currently doing to Android what RIM was doing to BBOS. Patching it
    But what matters is the end user experience. If the experiences are virtually identical, do I, as a consumer, really care about the underlying optimizations?
    esk369 likes this.
    10-14-12 11:38 AM
  24. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Do you really think that's their goal? I would assume that they would rather have a fledging market of their own without having to worry about Android at all.
    They have hired engineers just to do so. This is great for key apps that are developed for Android in which the dev dedicates as an example hundreds of hours to development and continuous maintenance. It won't be possible to dedicate hundreds of hours to developing a native BB10 app. Think about the economics. RIM knows that Android will dominate well into the future. Why not take advantage of this? Other then the frustrating "transitions" of Android apps that appear as lag. I have found good use of a few As many have.

    RIM wouldn't be dedicating themselves to such an evolution of Android App support for BB10 if they had plans to drop it.
    10-14-12 11:47 AM
  25. missing_K-W's Avatar
    But what matters is the end user experience. If the experiences are virtually identical, do I, as a consumer, really care about the underlying optimizations?
    Well we'll soon see what limitations are exposed between all platforms very soon.

    It all boils down to how little or how much you value your time. If we can accomplish relative tasks on PB or BB10 in a mere fraction of the time as other platforms what would you choose? Android and it's clunky transitions or "app switching"? Apply common sense.
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 10-14-12 at 12:00 PM.
    10-14-12 11:48 AM
202 12345 ...

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