[docfitch]

Aside from obvious damage, is there any way to tell if a PB is refurbished? Also, can you tell how old it is from the serial #?

[Chaddface]

Download the Battery Guru app and check the recharge count. Peter would have to confirm but if they can reset that, they shouldn't. Battery health could be an indicator as well, but not a definite.

[anon(3641385)]

@docfitch .... did you receive a PB as a replacement for repair action on your previous PB?

I was told by BB support that they give refurbished models to replace busted models.

After I received a refurbished model (not my PB after they fixed it), due to a bung PB, I got BB Support to organise a NEW PB because the refurbished model had soo many bloody probs, like blurred camera and video as well as my original problem.

When I asked BB support how they new that this time it was a NEW PB they said because of the batch number - it was from a new batch.

[kennyliu]

Call customer service and give them the PIN.

Also try to register for the 90-day expert support. If it tells you your PB is ineligible, you most probably have a refurb.

[peter9477]

I believe the Recharge Count that Battery Guru displays is information read directly from the battery controller/monitor chip, which is generally a tiny microcontroller separate from the main CPU and (possibly and usually) not even on the motherboard.

If true, while it doesn't mean the recharge count is not useful information, if the battery gets replaced then the count will be reset, so it's not a positive confirmation that it's a brand new unit just because this is zero or low.

Also, it's quite possible RIM can reset this counter without replacing the battery, though as Chaddface says "they should not". That serves no valid purpose (since it's not possible to refurbish the battery) and I'd call it fraudulent misrepresentation (except that users can't see this without Battery Guru anyway ;-) ).

Health would be a useful indicator only as a very long term thing. For many of us, our health readings haven't dropped more than 1-2% in over six months, and the unit-to-unit variation is high enough that the value tells you little about that particular unit, unless it's a very low value (say, 83% or below). After about another year, we'll probably see "old" units (like our originals from a year ago) showing healths of 80% or lower, and brand new units (or refurbs with replacement batteries) showing values up around 90-95%.

The serial number is of some value... old ones had numbers like 1343-1... and 1343-4... and I'm sure they're higher now on new ones. Who's bought recently? I think

One question to ask yourself is, aside from the risk of getting a very used battery, what's wrong with a refurb unit? There are no moving parts. Nothing really wears out. If the buttons and everything else function properly and it's got a warranty, why would you care?

I think it's largely a psychological thing, and I can understand that at one level, but practically speaking I can't really come up with any reason to try avoiding a refurb. In actual fact, your chances of getting a lemon are probably lower with a refurb, since it should have had some close personal attention from a human instead of just zipping through a factory with a QC process we know doesn't involve 100% sampling.

[kennyliu]

I think it's largely a psychological thing, and I can understand that at one level, but practically speaking I can't really come up with any reason to try avoiding a refurb. In actual fact, your chances of getting a lemon are probably lower with a refurb, since it should have had some close personal attention from a human instead of just zipping through a factory with a QC process we know doesn't involve 100% sampling.

^^^ One compelling reason could be warranty.

[goku_vegeta]

I believe the Recharge Count that Battery Guru displays is information read directly from the battery controller/monitor chip, which is generally a tiny microcontroller separate from the main CPU and (possibly and usually) not even on the motherboard.

If true, while it doesn't mean the recharge count is not useful information, if the battery gets replaced then the count will be reset, so it's not a positive confirmation that it's a brand new unit just because this is zero or low.

Also, it's quite possible RIM can reset this counter without replacing the battery, though as Chaddface says "they should not". That serves no valid purpose (since it's not possible to refurbish the battery) and I'd call it fraudulent misrepresentation (except that users can't see this without Battery Guru anyway ;-) ).

Health would be a useful indicator only as a very long term thing. For many of us, our health readings haven't dropped more than 1-2% in over six months, and the unit-to-unit variation is high enough that the value tells you little about that particular unit, unless it's a very low value (say, 83% or below). After about another year, we'll probably see "old" units (like our originals from a year ago) showing healths of 80% or lower, and brand new units (or refurbs with replacement batteries) showing values up around 90-95%.

The serial number is of some value... old ones had numbers like 1343-1... and 1343-4... and I'm sure they're higher now on new ones. Who's bought recently? I think

One question to ask yourself is, aside from the risk of getting a very used battery, what's wrong with a refurb unit? There are no moving parts. Nothing really wears out. If the buttons and everything else function properly and it's got a warranty, why would you care?

I think it's largely a psychological thing, and I can understand that at one level, but practically speaking I can't really come up with any reason to try avoiding a refurb. In actual fact, your chances of getting a lemon are probably lower with a refurb, since it should have had some close personal attention from a human instead of just zipping through a factory with a QC process we know doesn't involve 100% sampling.

I've bought mine this year, first week of February 2012. I could tell mine was just sitting there for a while, the date on the box was a mid December 2011 date, still not sure if that was the manufacture date or just a boxing date, although since RIM did crank up the production not too long ago I'm more inclined to believe PlayBooks at launch and those who bought it around the times of the fire sales have PlayBooks with very very close dates from when the PlayBook was actually manufactured to when it was sent in the box.

My serial number starts with 1344 so yes you were correct there peter, although I don't know the assembly line at Quanta computers over in Taiwan, going back to the date on the box it could very well be date of manufacture if they completed all the steps in one day, or could be the date of boxing, no one really knows.


As for the psychological thing. Yes, simply put people have more comfort in buying a product that has been unopened and fresh from the manufacturing plant. Although some people are more inclined to buy refurbished items as compared to others, this deviance from this norm is pretty rare.

^^^ One compelling reason could be warranty.

Don't most major companies offer the same warranty on refurbished items? I know for instance since Apple sells refurbished products directly from them that they also have the same standard 1 year warranty with their refurbished items which is the same if you were to buy a product never opened.

[kennyliu]

^^^ I know for sure that the refurbs sold through retailers (e.g. Best Buy) don't carry any warranty (except a limited period store return). Plus, most refurbs don't qualify for the 90-day expert service (unless you got the unit as an RMA from RIM directly).

[peter9477]

kennyliu, for sure warranty, if that's involved here.

I was assuming there was a warranty, because if the OP was looking at a unit that might be a refurb, and refurbs didn't have warranties where he was shopping, then he'd presumably either already know it was a refurb ("No Warranty" clearly marked somewhere...) or he could simply ask.

[kennyliu]

That's possible. We have yet to hear from the OP

I myself thought he was thinking of buying in a secondary market (ebay, craigslist, etc.) and hence doesn't know if it's a used PB or a used/refurb unit.

[Hawnz]

If you asked RIM, would they tell you? I have read that Apple refurbished products get new serial numbers. Could RIM/Qundra be doing that also?

[goku_vegeta]

If you asked RIM, would they tell you? I have read that Apple refurbished products get new serial numbers. Could RIM/Qundra be doing that also?

^Quanta

<filler>

[kennyliu]

If you asked RIM, would they tell you? I have read that Apple refurbished products get new serial numbers. Could RIM/Qundra be doing that also?

They can. If the unit carries a more limited warranty or doesn't have one at all, they will probably have to disclose that.

If the warranty is unaffected due to the unit being a refurb (such as in the case of a direct RIM replacement or repair), then, as Peter said, it shouldn't really matter much. AS LONG AS IT IS NOT SOLD AS NEW (sorry had to use all caps, I have JS disabled).

[docfitch]

Wow. Thanks for all the input. The reason I asked was because when I ordered my PB, it was supposedly in stock. Then, when it took longer than the estimated shipping time, I was told they were contacting the manufacturer for an ETA. Then, it was suddenly being shipped (it still hasn't arrived), so I was just wondering if they found one lying around. I am one of those people who like to purchase new , so I was just wondering if I could tell whether or not it was a refurbished unit. I guess one of my first apps will be Battery Guru.

[saudadeii]

Who did you buy it from? If from a reputable dealer, then they would have disclosed it was a refurb in the ad. Otherwise it would be new.

[mrpenaflor]

One question to ask yourself is, aside from the risk of getting a very used battery, what's wrong with a refurb unit? There are no moving parts. Nothing really wears out. If the buttons and everything else function properly and it's got a warranty, why would you care?

An electronic component may not have moving part but it still subjected to stresses due to heat (contracts when cold, expands when hot). think of it the same way when you bend a spoon at a single point. keep on bending it back and forth and it will snap at some point. So basically a refurb already has a spent operational life but, then again most chips are over engineered. Most OEM deemed their products EOL(end of life) after 5 years and most components are over engineered to last for 10 years unless there is a flaw on the design or packaging (think of Nvidia GPU fiasco). My point is if the price you're paying is for a new item then it should be new because refurb should be discounted cause the components are already used even if they put it on a new housing so that it looks new.

[stackberry369]

My serial starts 1345 and ends 0576