10-28-12 10:04 PM
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  1. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    Look guys, it's great you enjoy your Playbooks and all. I didn't really like it when I had one, I might with the improved software today, though I doubt it. For your purposes it's probably a nifty, little device.

    But if you look at the big picture, the Playbook is dead as... As... Dead as a Palm Pre. Commercially speaking.

    Have you seen all the 7 inch tablet comparisons all the review sites have been doing lately, now that the iPad Mini is out? Have you noticed that the Playbook is barely mentioned or brought up in them? That should tell you all there is to know.

    It sold 120.000 in the last quarter, which is pitiful, RIM has taken a write down of several hundred million on them, so you can you blame them, if they don't want to sink more money in marketing a lost cause?

    The hardware is aged and even at 200$ not really that competitive. And on top of that the Playbook name has been tainted with the whole launch debacle, no email, etc.

    So is it dead? Commercially, yes. You won't find them in the stores in six months (many stores will probably move them out by Christmas, unless they use it as a last opportunity to get rid of stock) as they need space for newer tablets.
    There will still be software for them though, and as they get upgraded to BB10 (hopefully around next summer) they won't be EoLed or completely obsolete. But BB10 software should be able to run satisfactorily on them for at least another year. Two years might be stretching it, depending on how fast RIM will upgrade the hardware in their future phones.

    So yeah, the answer to your question depends on what your definition of "alive" is. Commercially no, that train left the station along time ago. If it means able to run newer software and BB10, then yes.

    And nope, I strongly doubt you'll see another Playbook from RIM. Next year they'll be waaaay to busy with trying to survive and iterating BB10 to make another run at the tablet market. In two years though? Who knows... One thing is for sure, the Playbook name is probably too tainted, so if they make another tablet it'll be under a different name.
    10-25-12 09:41 AM
  2. dentynefire's Avatar
    How come all these armchair ceo's who post on this forum don't run companies since they all think they know why rim failed. If you know why they failed, how come you aren't working for them? Oh right....Patents

    Jessica
    Let me fix that for you
    10-25-12 10:20 AM
  3. goaliegirl33's Avatar
    I don't think it's dead, I do think it will never be marketed as the product it was initially marketed as, that being RIM's answer to the iPad.

    If BB10 is any kind of a success, I believe the PB will remain in the product line and continue to be upgraded, it will just be marketed as an accessory for the phone. The standalone with the cellular antenna might become the rare animal. Bridge is the unique feature of the PB that all other tablets lack. It becomes another positive selling feature of the phone if that tablet accessory remains available.

    They will have to be smarter about it to keep it alive. It has to be actually priced to sell. It's never going to be a huge profit generator.

    With law enforcement starting to install PB's in their cars, I just can't see RIM abandoning the tablet. It's just starting to gain a foothold in places where it is a perfect fit.
    im3arl likes this.
    10-25-12 11:46 AM
  4. njblackberry's Avatar
    Foothold? Less than 1% of tablet sales in the last quarter. Barely mentioned in the press, or even by RIM. Not marketed. 4G LTE model?

    No foothold. Hanging on by a thread.
    10-25-12 11:49 AM
  5. J English Smith's Avatar
    Yeah, it's killing me - $190 for a new 64gb right now at Office Depot - I'd love to get a second higher capacity Playbook, but my head is telling me to hold my cards for now and just enjoy my 16. I can't get anyone else in my nuclear family interested in a tablet right now, so I can't even get it for someone else...sigh.

    If BB10 does not come to the PlayBook, and/or if RIM does not release a second version, I expect it will die off; and the tablet side is certainly peripheral to surviving in the phone category. I hate the level of dominance and market share that Apple has, things have really changed from the "Think Different" days. I like their products but I hate the velvet handcuffs. I think the PlayBook is the "Think Different" tablet! I wish it could survive as a niche product, but I would say the odds are very low.
    10-25-12 12:16 PM
  6. BennyX's Avatar
    short answer: no. One could argue that it's barely alive as is.

    It will be very long in the tooth by Summer 2013 and the major players will all have devices out that are at least twice as powerful.
    10-25-12 12:17 PM
  7. malcymalc's Avatar
    I bought my playbook based on a few key factors...
    1. It's my first toe in the tablet pool, so wanted a reputable brand.
    2. Didn't want to risk wasting a fortune if I didn't like the tablet experience.
    3. Loved the build quality of the PB
    4. Wanted as much internal storage as possible i.e 64gb

    I like it as a competent standalone device but I'm quite prepared to abandon the platform if another killer deal comes along in a year or so.
    I can do this because I only paid 130 instead of the ridiculous 400 when it was launched so I'm not looking for as much longevity.
    Technology becomes out of date .....Fact! So survival of the fittest will prevail.
    J English Smith likes this.
    10-25-12 02:16 PM
  8. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Look guys, it's great you enjoy your Playbooks and all. I didn't really like it when I had one, I might with the improved software today, though I doubt it. For your purposes it's probably a nifty, little device.

    But if you look at the big picture, the Playbook is dead as... As... Dead as a Palm Pre. Commercially speaking.

    Have you seen all the 7 inch tablet comparisons all the review sites have been doing lately, now that the iPad Mini is out? Have you noticed that the Playbook is barely mentioned or brought up in them? That should tell you all there is to know.

    It sold 120.000 in the last quarter, which is pitiful, RIM has taken a write down of several hundred million on them, so you can you blame them, if they don't want to sink more money in marketing a lost cause?

    The hardware is aged and even at 200$ not really that competitive. And on top of that the Playbook name has been tainted with the whole launch debacle, no email, etc.

    So is it dead? Commercially, yes. You won't find them in the stores in six months (many stores will probably move them out by Christmas, unless they use it as a last opportunity to get rid of stock) as they need space for newer tablets.
    There will still be software for them though, and as they get upgraded to BB10 (hopefully around next summer) they won't be EoLed or completely obsolete. But BB10 software should be able to run satisfactorily on them for at least another year. Two years might be stretching it, depending on how fast RIM will upgrade the hardware in their future phones.

    So yeah, the answer to your question depends on what your definition of "alive" is. Commercially no, that train left the station along time ago. If it means able to run newer software and BB10, then yes.

    And nope, I strongly doubt you'll see another Playbook from RIM. Next year they'll be waaaay to busy with trying to survive and iterating BB10 to make another run at the tablet market. In two years though? Who knows... One thing is for sure, the Playbook name is probably too tainted, so if they make another tablet it'll be under a different name.
    You're taking a fairly narrow view, and ignoring a few things. First, hardware isn't particularly dated. The Playbook is still on a par with the iPad Mini (and actually still improves on it in a couple of areas). Of course app selection is still way down, but that will be addressed somewhat by BB10 (I've discussed elsewhere that the numbers for BB10 handsets make for a more compelling proposition to developers).

    What I THINK is happening here is that RIM is deliberately holding back the brand. They could be getting set to introduce a new tablet under new branding in the spring, but unless the device is radically different in some way, I'm pretty sure consumers will just call it a repackaged Playbook anyway.

    If RIM can redeem the Blackberry brand in general, that will pull the Playbook with it.
    howarmat likes this.
    10-25-12 02:29 PM
  9. anon1727506's Avatar
    RIM has to have a tablet in their lineup if they want to stay in the mobile market place. But that said, RIM really can't afford to loose money right now. They need to release the BB10 Phones, and plan for a release of an updated tablet for mid 2013. If sales skyrocket for BB10 phones in the first few months, then RIM will go ahead and release the new tablet. If BB10 phones aren't accepted buy consumers right away, then RIM is going to have to be very conservative with what little cash they will have left by that time. And let's face it, if the phones don't sell... a new tablet isn't going to have much of a chance.
    10-25-12 04:51 PM
  10. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Foothold? Less than 1% of tablet sales in the last quarter. Barely mentioned in the press, or even by RIM. Not marketed. 4G LTE model?

    No foothold. Hanging on by a thread.
    Due to its healthy cash position, RIM has the luxury of being able to back off from the market and regroup. We're also seeing a slowdown in new apps for the Playbook; with its existing OS being replaced in a matter of months, many developers are already concentrating on having product ready for BB10. On top of all of that, as has been pointed out the Playbook "brand" is kind of tarnished at this point, and RIM doesn't do it any favors by hammering away with an uncompetitive product.

    That doesn't mean the situation is going to remain static, though. With the release of BB10 we're going to see a much more attractive app portfolio. Even if the phones are only modestly successful, as long as RIM can prove they're going to remain in business for the longer term there will be a new surge of consumer confidence in the Blackberry brand in general. I suspect that by Q2 we'll be looking at the BB10 update for the Playbooks, along with the beginnings of a new marketing push to clear out the old stock in anticipation of refreshed hardware.
    Bumble2000 likes this.
    10-25-12 04:51 PM
  11. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    "We took the hard decision to go the hard route" to completely rewrite the BlackBerry software for phones, said Heins, who with his fellow executives demonstrated the new software to developers. "I'm not thinking about BlackBerry being No. 1 in smartphones. I have a longer view on this: It is to be No. 1 in mobile computing with smartphones and tablets."
    Struggling RIM aims for leading role in mobile industry - ContraCostaTimes.com
    esk369 and Thunderbuck like this.
    10-25-12 05:52 PM
  12. bbmme's Avatar
    Like others stated, it depends on bb10 eh. But I'm pretty sure it's going nowhere eh
    10-25-12 11:41 PM
  13. GoldenGod's Avatar
    What kind of question is that? Of course the Blackberry PlayBook would be more alive than ever on 2013!

    If RIM keeps their promise of giving BB10 to the PlayBook, then I'm sure as that it'll be so much alive. With its own native BBM, people will be able to communicate with over 80 million subscribers around the world through their PlayBook!
    im3arl likes this.
    10-26-12 04:58 AM
  14. im3arl's Avatar
    Yes, no doubt! The bridge feature is brilliant! I can imagine next year after BB10 being released, we will see RIM market the "buy 2 BB products for the price of 1" all over the world.

    I love pairing my BB torch with Playbook. You would never see me go anywhere without one or other. Playbook, BB Torch and I are like peas in a pod that cannot go separated.
    10-26-12 05:41 AM
  15. BBplaybookJS's Avatar
    No, sales are what matters.
    The argument can be made that marketing equals sales, even with an inferior product
    10-26-12 05:58 AM
  16. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    If BB10 does not come to the PlayBook, and/or if RIM does not release a second version, .
    This specific statement shows why I wrote the original post. I've noticed in these forums a barrage of people who have no idea RIM released a second PlayBook in August ... the 1.5 GHZ LTE model. The number of "PlayBook hardware is now 18 months old" type comments suggest lots of people don't even know LTE exists. It's almost like RIM quietly threw it to market to fulfill some contractual obligation or something.
    10-26-12 06:03 AM
  17. daglesj's Avatar
    Re. all the folks that think the Playbook is a well known item of tablet hardware. This is a regular conversation I have had over the past two months -

    Other Person - "So you have a tablet?"

    Me - "Yes I do, I have a Playbook!"

    Other Person (frowning) - "Whats that?"

    True story!
    10-26-12 06:14 AM
  18. jononku's Avatar
    I hope so, but I'm starting to have my doubts. The warranty on the two playbooks in our house are going to expire around the January timeframe, so I'm not sure what we are going to do if and when one of them dies. They are pretty much a staple of our household and get used every day, so there is no question that we'll purchase replacement tablet devices (blackberry or otherwise) when the time comes.

    Given the fact that my wife and I are not chronic upgraders and tend to hold on to stuff until it is completely dead or unusable (we still have a tube tv and crappy old dvd player held together with bubble gum and duct tape), I'm really hoping that we can get at least another couple years of use from our current playbooks.

    As you can see from the varied responses, it's really anyone's call whether RIM decides to keep some kind of tablet in their lineup as they move forward with BB10. In my opinion, despite the utter marketing and sales failure that the PB was, in today's environment they need to have such a device for the simple fact that everybody else does.
    10-26-12 06:53 AM
  19. airbbtran's Avatar
    You're taking a fairly narrow view, and ignoring a few things. First, hardware isn't particularly dated. The Playbook is still on a par with the iPad Mini (and actually still improves on it in a couple of areas). Of course app selection is still way down, but that will be addressed somewhat by BB10 (I've discussed elsewhere that the numbers for BB10 handsets make for a more compelling proposition to developers).

    What I THINK is happening here is that RIM is deliberately holding back the brand. They could be getting set to introduce a new tablet under new branding in the spring, but unless the device is radically different in some way, I'm pretty sure consumers will just call it a repackaged Playbook anyway.

    If RIM can redeem the Blackberry brand in general, that will pull the Playbook with it.
    highly doubt if RIM can redeem the BB brand they will pull the PB with them. They would release a newer one with more horsepower. As much people say the PB its smooth as butter and BB10 will make it better, it can always get better. With newer OS update it will utilize better hardware. Same goes for Android and iOS. That just the evolution of any technology.

    edit - maybe i misread you, but if you are referring to a new Playbook, then i agree, but not the old one.
    10-26-12 10:52 AM
  20. BennyX's Avatar
    Re. all the folks that think the Playbook is a well known item of tablet hardware. This is a regular conversation I have had over the past two months -

    Other Person - "So you have a tablet?"

    Me - "Yes I do, I have a Playbook!"

    Other Person (frowning) - "Whats that?"

    True story!

    Sometimes I mention to people in passing that I use a tablet sometimes.. nobody has ever asked me what brand. For most people, a tablet is a tablet. And they're not really wrong... one does the job as well as the next, regardless of brand.
    OniBerry likes this.
    10-26-12 11:23 AM
  21. Angus_CB's Avatar
    Sometimes I mention to people in passing that I use a tablet sometimes.. nobody has ever asked me what brand. For most people, a tablet is a tablet. And they're not really wrong... one does the job as well as the next, regardless of brand.
    And... A lot of people refer to any tablet as an iPad. The same way any snowmobile is referred to as a Ski-Doo (North America) and any facial tissue is referred to as Kleenex.
    Ask the average person what they think of the Nexus 7 or a Xoom. You'll get the same quizzical response as you would asking about the Playbook.
    In general people don't know a tablet by it's name or manufacturer other than the iPad.
    10-27-12 10:03 AM
  22. timmy t's Avatar
    Most reviewers praised the hardware on the Playbook but complained because of a lack of apps and the email app coming late.
    For the LTE Playbook, they just increased the CPU speed and left everything else as it was.

    I think once the new ecosystem is available along with all of the apps that are supposed to come with it, you will see a more positive view of Playbooks from reviewers.
    RIM just has to increase the processors and specs on any new batches of Playbooks to keep up with the times.
    And maybe make it a bit slimmer.
    10-27-12 10:23 AM
  23. Dukey Avalon's Avatar
    The Blackberry Playbook has a huge uphill battle ahead of it. First and foremost, BB10 must be all it has made out to be. If it isn't polished, feature complete and smooth everything else doesn't matter. Second, RIM needs to get its head out of its @#$ when it comes to marketing. I don't care if BB10 on the (expected new hardware) Playbook is the best tablet in the world, if the average Joe doesn't know about it they are not even going to look at it. Third, if RIM doesn't convince developers to create more quality apps it will have a hard time competing. Fourth, RIM must keep the price down on all models. There are just too many choices available right now. I expect Microsoft's surface to have at least one price drop before BB10 is released. If the Surface doesn't sell well it may have two price drops before the new Playbook OS is out. It will be very hard to convince people to pay more for a Playbook when there are a lot of MS tablets, Android tablets and i-pad minis available at a lower price. Microsoft can afford to drop the price of its tablets to cost or below in order to gain market share. They did the same thing with the original xbox. RIM can no longer play that game.

    If everything goes just right, the Playbook can gain serious market share. I wish them the best luck...they are going to need a lot of it. One year from today Playbook could have maybe %15 market share and rising or could be dropped as a cost cutting measure.
    The Playbook unfortunately has gone as I predicted a year ago, into history with the laser disc and betamax. A device that could have made a splash but for any number of reasons get's the "f" for fail.

    Let's look at the reality. For the Playbook to live on in summer 2013 we need the following things to happen :

    - We need RIM to launch BB10 successfully on the phones AND do it in a timely manner - their track record in this regard stinks of late.
    - We need people to actually buy the BB10 phones in meaningful numbers.
    - We need BB10 to be made to work on a tablet and in a manner that is bullet proof.
    - We need marquis applicationssomething available (ie. netflix).
    - We need someone to RIM to build a generation 2 Playbook because by summer 2013 nobody sane will buy what amounts to a 2 year old piece of technology.

    I wouldn't have confidence in most companies to pull this off, let alone the burning house that is RIM.
    10-27-12 10:32 AM
  24. Dukey Avalon's Avatar
    The argument can be made that marketing equals sales, even with an inferior product
    This is ridiculous and apologist.

    The reason the "inferior" iPad outsells the Playbook horrendously is partially marketing, but if the product didn't live up to the marketing it would quickly fail. RIM could have marketed the Playbook to the moon and it would have still been a sales disaster because it was so unfinished when it launched.
    10-27-12 10:38 AM
  25. timmy t's Avatar
    RIM started out marketing the Playbook but when the reviewers savaged it, they decided to cut their losses. I think a new generation Playbook running BB10 with all of the apps can be successful. Whether it will be huge is not known.
    Don't forget, we are just a year or two into the tablet market.

    Also, for all of you people who are slagging RIM for taking so long to produce an OS, they have only owned QNX for two years so the development of the new OS is two years to date at the longest.
    How long did it take Apple to create their first version of iOS? How long did it take Google to make a reasonable Android OS?

    I think the power of QNX and its multiprocessing capabilities will allow RIM to go forward with much enhanced graphics and response time in its User Experience, compared to Apple and Google clones.
    It has to stabilize its financial position first and continue to encourage developers to make apps for BB10 and then over the course of the next 3 or 4 years, it has a real possibility of getting closer to the top two.
    And don't forget, the top two can stumble too.
    If people start hacking Apple and Google clone phones and steal electronic wallet information, RIM will be in like Flynn.
    10-27-12 11:12 AM
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