01-16-12 06:03 PM
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  1. alnamvet68's Avatar
    I pointed this out earlier in this thread: do people who buy iPads, Touchpads, Android tablets, etc need to buy a separate phone to make their tablet fully functional? Nope. I think buying a Playbook should be seen as buying a stand-alone blackberry device, complete with its own PIN. RIM should get out of the mindset that Playbooks should JUST be for current BB users. That's their downfall in the tablet market, IMHO. Playbooks and ALL of its functionality should be available for EVERYONE that wants one!
    I have to ask, how much more functionality do you get with other tablets, barring 3G, of course? The PB is the only tablet available that has Bridge. If you don't use Bridge, then the PB is no more and no less functional then the rest of the competition.
    spike12 and CDM76 like this.
    01-13-12 04:24 PM
  2. Angelo_Campher's Avatar
    The thing is that's not what happened. It was a non-cash writedown, and that's the important part.

    What you seem to be thinking is it cost RIM $X to make the PlayBooks, and they managed to sell them for $Y. The difference is $500 million, they spent $500 million more making them than they sold them for. That's not what happened.

    What happened is that RIM had a pile of PlayBooks in inventory. They said on their balance sheet "These PlayBooks are worth $A based on selling them at 500/600/700". Then it turned out they could only sell them for 200/300/400, and suddenly the value of their inventory dropped by $500 million. Loss of value in inventory is considered a business loss, but it doesn't mean they lost money. If the new price is still more than it costs to build then they still turned a profit.

    In the specific case of the $199 16GB I do think they're losing money. But I think the $299 32GB and $399 64GB were probably still profitable, looking just at hard production + distribution costs. R&D costs are difficult because the OS is also the next gen phone OS. Without knowing a bunch of secret internal data we'll never know the exact answer to how much RIM has made or lost. My point is that they didn't spend $500 million more than they made.
    You are correct but what you must understand is that the inventory writedown or adjusted Net Realisable Value has to be disclosed in the annual financial statements as an extraordinary item/material non cash item and in this case it is the statement of comprehensive income. The adjustment affected profitibility and hence the share price came crashing down as a certain expectation wasn't met.

    That said, where are the demos of the video store as I believe that to be one of RIM's biggest weaknesses. They need content and I would have loved to see how the video store was integrated.

    Does anybody have experience with Rovi, and if so, what is service like?
    01-13-12 04:26 PM
  3. Mexxan's Avatar
    Frankly after reading past Apple oriented anti RIM crap from Gizmodo, I rate there opinion as poor. Im no fan boy - my PB is my first RIM product but if I'd have based my purchase on reviews and opinions from the likes of Jizzmodo and others - i would have gone sheep and stuck with Apple.

    Good to see positives, but these guys and so weak on journalistic integrity anyway.
    alnamvet68, dentynefire and CDM76 like this.
    01-13-12 04:31 PM
  4. Angelo_Campher's Avatar
    I pointed this out earlier in this thread: do people who buy iPads, Touchpads, Android tablets, etc need to buy a separate phone to make their tablet fully functional? Nope. I think buying a Playbook should be seen as buying a stand-alone blackberry device, complete with its own PIN. RIM should get out of the mindset that Playbooks should JUST be for current BB users. That's their downfall in the tablet market, IMHO. Playbooks and ALL of its functionality should be available for EVERYONE that wants one!
    The PlayBook does have it's own PIN and the reason for the BBM delay is believed to be management of multiple devices. It is all good and well RIM include BBM on the PlayBook but what about the current BlackBerry smartphone users who would have to manage two seperate contacts lists?

    I would rather RIM take their time and release it when it is polished and can deliver the exact functionality of the phones.
    highos likes this.
    01-13-12 04:43 PM
  5. alnamvet68's Avatar
    Love your descriptive and accurate portrayal of the tech dilitantes who haven't a clue regarding real journalism.
    01-13-12 04:45 PM
  6. cbvinh's Avatar
    I pointed this out earlier in this thread: do people who buy iPads, Touchpads, Android tablets, etc need to buy a separate phone to make their tablet fully functional? Nope. I think buying a Playbook should be seen as buying a stand-alone blackberry device, complete with its own PIN. RIM should get out of the mindset that Playbooks should JUST be for current BB users. That's their downfall in the tablet market, IMHO. Playbooks and ALL of its functionality should be available for EVERYONE that wants one!
    Touchpad's and Pre's have a feature called Touch to Share which allows data to be transferred between tablet and handset. Surely that must have been the cause of the downfall of the Touchpad!

    Apple introduced AirPlay into their products. Surely every iOS owner must buy AirPlay capable devices to enjoy their iOS devices!

    If you're trying to critique RIM's marketing plan of requiring a BB phone for email, contacts and calendar, then you should see the the native email, contacts and calendar in OS2 addresses this functionality for the non-BB Playbook owner.
    spike12, hpjrt and AggreX like this.
    01-13-12 05:02 PM
  7. world traveler and former ceo's Avatar
    Playbook 2.0 is going to be so amazing! .. can't wait!! ... it will be the best tablet on the market for sure! ... and coupled with a bold 9900 ... things are just getting started for RIM in 2012 !!!
    AggreX likes this.
    01-13-12 05:44 PM
  8. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    I have to ask, how much more functionality do you get with other tablets, barring 3G, of course? The PB is the only tablet available that has Bridge. If you don't use Bridge, then the PB is no more and no less functional then the rest of the competition.
    Think about the functionality that comes with using the bridge. That's what other tablets offer out of the box (or by downloading apps).

    The PlayBook does have it's own PIN
    You're right I actually just discovered this a few minutes ago while tinkering with my playbook settings. Regarding having to manage two bbm lists, don't people who have multiple blackberries already do this?

    Touchpad's and Pre's have a feature called Touch to Share which allows data to be transferred between tablet and handset. Surely that must have been the cause of the downfall of the Touchpad!

    Apple introduced AirPlay into their products. Surely every iOS owner must buy AirPlay capable devices to enjoy their iOS devices!

    If you're trying to critique RIM's marketing plan of requiring a BB phone for email, contacts and calendar, then you should see the the native email, contacts and calendar in OS2 addresses this functionality for the non-BB Playbook owner.
    But those examples you gave don't NEED another device to gain (what should be) basic functionality though, right? And I know about what's coming in OS2 and I'm very excited to get it on my playbook! I know I picked the right time to jump on the PB bandwagon.
    01-13-12 06:21 PM
  9. papped's Avatar
    Essentially they're saying it's a huge surprise because it now includes a bunch of stuff that it should have already had.... So depending on how you read this, it's not really that positive, it's just not really negative... Having played with it at CES it doesn't exactly blow your mind or anything.
    01-13-12 06:35 PM
  10. alnamvet68's Avatar
    Think about the functionality that comes with using the bridge. That's what other tablets offer out of the box (or by downloading apps).

    .
    I'm not aware of any tablet that offers anything right out of the box with Bridge. That said, if Bridge was not available on the PB, I don't see where any tablet out there has a leg up on the PB....they're all the same when it comes to connectivity (wi-Fi).
    01-13-12 07:14 PM
  11. cbvinh's Avatar
    But those examples you gave don't NEED another device to gain (what should be) basic functionality though, right? And I know about what's coming in OS2 and I'm very excited to get it on my playbook! I know I picked the right time to jump on the PB bandwagon.
    You were advocating for full functionality, not basic functionality. Regardless, what you're asking for is addressed in OS2. Why keep bringing up this "insight" of yours when it's been known by users since the Playbook was first released?
    01-13-12 07:33 PM
  12. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Imo, the Bridge has great security and economical advantages but wasn't promoted or marketed properly.We don't know the ratio of people turning it down because of lack of native email vs how many companies were able to quickly deploy them due to the Bridge strategy. It has its pros and cons but to classify it as only a missing element doesn't take in the whole picture.

    We've got people with an iPhone and iPad where we are paying two data plans and taking double the hits to our Exchange infrastructure and bandwidth compared to the BB model. Rarely are the two devices not together.
    01-13-12 07:40 PM
  13. Unsure2's Avatar
    I pointed this out earlier in this thread: do people who buy iPads, Touchpads, Android tablets, etc need to buy a separate phone to make their tablet fully functional? Nope. I think buying a Playbook should be seen as buying a stand-alone blackberry device, complete with its own PIN. RIM should get out of the mindset that Playbooks should JUST be for current BB users. That's their downfall in the tablet market, IMHO. Playbooks and ALL of its functionality should be available for EVERYONE that wants one!
    I agree. RIM can continue promoting synergies between the Playbook and Blackberry phones; but it's just silly to exclude non-BB-phone users as potential Playbook customers. The Playbook must compete against other tablets that DO offer mail, calendar, Kindle, Netflix, etc. Now, while some here like to argue that the apps the Playbook lacks are not needed, the fact is they all represent popular apps and services expected by many potential buyers. If RIM wants to promote a new tablet OS, doing what is necessary to bring apps to the OS is goes with the territory. Well, in February, the Playbook will be getting some of what it lacks to be competitive. With luck, the rest will follow.
    pantlesspenguin and CDM76 like this.
    01-13-12 08:13 PM
  14. jelp2's Avatar
    I use BBM, and BES email over wifi on a regular basis.

    I thought even if you have wifi turned on BBM is still sent through BIS/BES.
    01-13-12 08:33 PM
  15. mandony's Avatar
    Hay OP: did you ready this

    The Biggest Surprise of CES

    DUH!
    01-13-12 08:42 PM
  16. jelp2's Avatar
    Essentially they're saying it's a huge surprise because it now includes a bunch of stuff that it should have already had.... So depending on how you read this, it's not really that positive, it's just not really negative... Having played with it at CES it doesn't exactly blow your mind or anything.
    Getting the basic functions are not a surprise, but the way they are implemented are. The email, calendar, contacts, the way they are integrated is the surprise. They all go above and beyond the basic features you would find on other tablets. Add that to the multi tasking capabilities, its great. Not to mention, the remote control feature bridging a BB phone to the PB is pretty cool.
    cbvinh and AggreX like this.
    01-13-12 08:49 PM
  17. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    I'm not aware of any tablet that offers anything right out of the box with Bridge. That said, if Bridge was not available on the PB, I don't see where any tablet out there has a leg up on the PB....they're all the same when it comes to connectivity (wi-Fi).
    I'm not exactly referring to connectivity, but since you bring it up if someone has a phone with wifi hotspot they can connect their tablet (whatever it may be) through that. I was mainly referring to functions like calendar and email.

    You were advocating for full functionality, not basic functionality. Regardless, what you're asking for is addressed in OS2. Why keep bringing up this "insight" of yours when it's been known by users since the Playbook was first released?
    My "insight" is simply observations as a new Playbook owner. I've been interested in them for awhile, but the price slashing and promise of OS2 were incentive enough for me to finally get one.

    I agree. RIM can continue promoting synergies between the Playbook and Blackberry phones; but it's just silly to exclude non-BB-phone users as potential Playbook customers. The Playbook must compete against other tablets that DO offer mail, calendar, Kindle, Netflix, etc. Now, while some here like to argue that the apps the Playbook lacks are not needed, the fact is they all represent popular apps and services expected by many potential buyers. If RIM wants to promote a new tablet OS, doing what is necessary to bring apps to the OS is goes with the territory. Well, in February, the Playbook will be getting some of what it lacks to be competitive. With luck, the rest will follow.
    This sums up whst I was trying to get at a lot better than I could express .
    01-13-12 09:30 PM
  18. Waterloo User's Avatar
    I thought even if you have wifi turned on BBM is still sent through BIS/BES.

    I can only validate what I have; The 9900 is on BES, and the 9300 on BIS. They can both do BBM over WiFi.
    01-13-12 11:58 PM
  19. papped's Avatar
    Getting the basic functions are not a surprise, but the way they are implemented are. The email, calendar, contacts, the way they are integrated is the surprise. They all go above and beyond the basic features you would find on other tablets. Add that to the multi tasking capabilities, its great. Not to mention, the remote control feature bridging a BB phone to the PB is pretty cool.
    Exactly what about it is surprising? Generally speaking everything listed on that blog post works roughly how I would have expected it to prior to using it...

    The multitasking is not new to OS2 nor is the bridge. We are not talking PB since release in general we are talking OS2 updates...
    01-14-12 12:17 AM
  20. BBOttawa's Avatar
    Exactly what about it is surprising?
    Have you seen the PB OS 2.0 videos? The PB will have class leading email, social integration, calendars, contacts, which no other platform can match. They have re-taken the communications crown, as should be expected by RIM.

    Best communications/PIM ability.
    Native PB apps.
    Android apps on the PB.
    Remote control from a BB phone to a PB. HDMI out made extremely useful.
    Support for way more native tool chains and APIs for devs.
    Best Flash support...okay that was already there, but it matters.
    Best HTML5 web rendering for the new generation of tablet apps coming out, and a bridge to BB7/6 phones.

    Combined with the best in class hardware design and praised OS, not copying iOS, but surpassing it by providing multitasking and ground breaking gesture navigation.

    Obviously nothing to see here...
    hpjrt likes this.
    01-14-12 12:31 AM
  21. papped's Avatar
    Have you seen the PB OS 2.0 videos? The PB will have class leading email, social integration, calendars, contacts, which no other platform can match. They have re-taken the communications crown, as should be expected by RIM.
    I was at CES... I used the new OS. Not to mention most of that stuff you mentioned has been available in the dev beta for a long time and is not mentioned in the gizmodo article at all and has nothing to do with it.

    You are reaching....
    01-14-12 12:35 AM
  22. BBOttawa's Avatar
    was at CES... I used the new OS. Not to mention most of that stuff you mentioned has been available in the dev beta for a long time and is not mentioned in the gizmodo article at all and has nothing to do with it.

    You are reaching....
    Ummmhhh, so you were at CES and have used the publicly available dev beta, and your point being? Lots of people used the dev OS, and went to CES.

    The topic is that they feel that PB OS 2.0 is the biggest surprise at CES, not what Gizmodo decided to post from their time there. If they chose to not report on all the facets of OS2.0 why should we be limited by their poor ability to report the details?

    You are defending incomplete reporting...
    01-14-12 12:47 AM
  23. mithrazor's Avatar
    Exactly what about it is surprising? Generally speaking everything listed on that blog post works roughly how I would have expected it to prior to using it...

    The multitasking is not new to OS2 nor is the bridge. We are not talking PB since release in general we are talking OS2 updates...
    The email, contacts, and calendar didn't impress you? It's surprising because of how well all 3 are integrated with each other. Plus the email is much more feature rich than what the general public expected.

    They brought something new to the table. Instead of the same ol' email, contacts, calendar. Plus the intuitiveness of it.

    He never said multitasking or bridge was new to OS2. He said what was new at CES PLUS the multitasking and bridge is "great" and "pretty cool".

    Meaning it's his opinion. Didn't say it was new.

    So judging from your comprehension of his post. You have showcased your poor understanding skills. Which is why you don't understand what's so great about OS2. It's okay though. It'll take time for it to be apparent to you.
    01-14-12 12:47 AM
  24. papped's Avatar
    Ummmhhh, so you were at CES and have used the publicly available dev beta, and your point being? Lots of people used the dev OS, and went to CES.

    The topic is that they feel that PB OS 2.0 is the biggest surprise at CES, not what Gizmodo decided to post from their time there. If they chose to not report on all the facets of OS2.0 why should we be limited by their poor ability to report the details?

    You are defending incomplete reporting...
    Because the entire point of this thread was that gizmodo reported something positive about BB? If you extrapolate what isn't there then the article is worthless as a positive word, because you are just inserting your own words.
    01-14-12 12:49 AM
  25. AggreX's Avatar
    Exactly what about it is surprising?
    For most of the other long-time patiently waiting PB owners it will be a big surprise! A nearly year-old BB tablet is about to get a new OTA upgraded OS of this magnitude that makes it almost feel like a brand new tablet that has more features, options and capabilities that need to be checked out....Xmas all over again.
    01-14-12 12:50 AM
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