07-30-13 02:24 AM
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  1. sbndrf's Avatar
    Hey guys,

    after killing off the PlayBook on Friday I tried to make the best out of the situation just as everybody else here in the forums. Here is how the German law on warranty enabled me to return my PlayBook for a full refund of the price I paid for it after I used it for almost 14 months. I also want to acknowledge Amazon(.de)'s goodwill that always makes things quite easy. Experiences with different shops might be different. Nonetheless, here's the legal background:

    Back in May 2012 when I bought the PlayBook on Amazon.de, then RIM had already publicly confirmed that BB10 will come to the PlayBook after its release. Thankfully the German warranty law also requires public advertisements made by the vendor to be truthful. Otherwise your product is defective ("Sachmangel" 434 Abs. 1 Satz 3 BGB). If features are not as promised during the 2-year period of warranty, you can demand supplementary performance ("Nacherfllung"). As BBRY made clear that they won't deliver, you do not need to set a deadline to do so ( 440, 281 Abs. 2 BGB). Thus you ultimately have the right to rescind the purchase contract made with your dealer ( 437 Nr. 2 BGB).


    As the legal situation is pretty clear thanks to RIM having a big mouth by that time, I filed a complaint with Amazon.de this afternoon. Although it is Sunday today, they replied within half an hour. The answer was pretty standard: They won't repair this product (how could they), therefore they will refund the price I paid for it. A link to the RMA stuff, a note that I have to include the original accessories and that was it.

    darn you BlackBerry, however, your incompetence did me favor for once. I actually feel a bit sorry for Amazon being the one that has the hassle. Maybe I should get a Kindle Fire HD in return.


    Maybe my explanations help others to get their money back.
    06-30-13 04:42 PM
  2. Kris Simundson's Avatar
    Going to apoligize to OP, been on a PlayBook closing spree, this thread is reopened for those interested in the warranty law in Germany
    FF22 and sbndrf like this.
    06-30-13 06:59 PM
  3. hreiner1's Avatar
    Leider bin ich in den US und nicht in D
    haben den PB seit 2 Jahren, bezahlete fuer meine PB 64 gb so an die $650, dann noch das Keyboard und den Charger, so habe ich an die $900 ausgegeben
    we should have class action law suit against BB


    Hey guys,

    after killing off the PlayBook on Friday I tried to make the best out of the situation just as everybody else here in the forums. Here is how the German law on warranty enabled me to return my PlayBook for a full refund of the price I paid for it after I used it for almost 14 months. I also want to acknowledge Amazon(.de)'s goodwill that always makes things quite easy. Experiences with different shops might be different. Nonetheless, here's the legal background:

    Back in May 2012 when I bought the PlayBook on Amazon.de, then RIM had already publicly confirmed that BB10 will come to the PlayBook after its release. Thankfully the German warranty law also requires public advertisements made by the vendor to be truthful. Otherwise your product is defective ("Sachmangel" 434 Abs. 1 Satz 3 BGB). If features are not as promised during the 2-year period of warranty, you can demand supplementary performance ("Nacherfllung"). As BBRY made clear that they won't deliver, you do not need to set a deadline to do so ( 440, 281 Abs. 2 BGB). Thus you ultimately have the right to rescind the purchase contract made with your dealer ( 437 Nr. 2 BGB).


    As the legal situation is pretty clear thanks to RIM having a big mouth by that time, I filed a complaint with Amazon.de this afternoon. Although it is Sunday today, they replied within half an hour. The answer was pretty standard: They won't repair this product (how could they), therefore they will refund the price I paid for it. A link to the RMA stuff, a note that I have to include the original accessories and that was it.

    darn you BlackBerry, however, your incompetence did me favor for once. I actually feel a bit sorry for Amazon being the one that has the hassle. Maybe I should get a Kindle Fire HD in return.


    Maybe my explanations help others to get their money back.
    Last edited by hreiner1; 07-01-13 at 11:28 AM.
    06-30-13 09:12 PM
  4. rajdeep.malhi's Avatar
    That's actually pretty cool. I wonder if I can get away by returning mine for a store credit by telling them I lost my receipt. It works in most cases but not sure it will work for electronics.
    06-30-13 09:13 PM
  5. truth51187's Avatar
    Hey guys,

    after killing off the PlayBook on Friday I tried to make the best out of the situation just as everybody else here in the forums. Here is how the German law on warranty enabled me to return my PlayBook for a full refund of the price I paid for it after I used it for almost 14 months. I also want to acknowledge Amazon(.de)'s goodwill that always makes things quite easy. Experiences with different shops might be different. Nonetheless, here's the legal background:

    Back in May 2012 when I bought the PlayBook on Amazon.de, then RIM had already publicly confirmed that BB10 will come to the PlayBook after its release. Thankfully the German warranty law also requires public advertisements made by the vendor to be truthful. Otherwise your product is defective ("Sachmangel" 434 Abs. 1 Satz 3 BGB). If features are not as promised during the 2-year period of warranty, you can demand supplementary performance ("Nacherfllung"). As BBRY made clear that they won't deliver, you do not need to set a deadline to do so ( 440, 281 Abs. 2 BGB). Thus you ultimately have the right to rescind the purchase contract made with your dealer ( 437 Nr. 2 BGB).


    As the legal situation is pretty clear thanks to RIM having a big mouth by that time, I filed a complaint with Amazon.de this afternoon. Although it is Sunday today, they replied within half an hour. The answer was pretty standard: They won't repair this product (how could they), therefore they will refund the price I paid for it. A link to the RMA stuff, a note that I have to include the original accessories and that was it.

    darn you BlackBerry, however, your incompetence did me favor for once. I actually feel a bit sorry for Amazon being the one that has the hassle. Maybe I should get a Kindle Fire HD in return.


    Maybe my explanations help others to get their money back.
    Leider bin ich Amerikaner... Hoffentlich wird Ihre Geschichte jemand hier helfen!
    06-30-13 10:31 PM
  6. sbndrf's Avatar
    Going to apoligize to OP, been on a PlayBook closing spree, this thread is reopened for those interested in the warranty law in Germany
    Apology accepted, though I have to admit, I was a bit grumpy after seeing my thread closed

    I'm no expert on how warranty works in other countries, especially outside the EU I guess things are totally different. However, Amazon never makes a fuss about returning and there must be a reason why Apple never promises upgrades for certain devices.

    I'll be refunded €270 ($350) for my 64GB PlayBook. Will lose what I spent on an InvisibleShield screen protector and a replacement charger.
    07-01-13 01:56 AM
  7. russworman's Avatar
    That's actually pretty cool. I wonder if I can get away by returning mine for a store credit by telling them I lost my receipt. It works in most cases but not sure it will work for electronics.
    If you live in the US, most places will track purchase date by serial number...

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-13 03:02 AM
  8. Hirazi Blue's Avatar
    @OP - I don't get it: After 14 months of presumably using the Playbook "the" broken promise suddenly makes the device utterly useless retroactively? If it's so useless, you should/could have asked for a refund earlier IMHO..
    07-01-13 06:37 AM
  9. sbndrf's Avatar
    @Hirazi
    It's not about allowing customers to change their minds after having profited "enough" from their purchase, it's about protecting them from being fooled into purchase contracts by false promises.

    BBRY's promise was to bring BB10 to the PlayBook soon after its launch. I cannot define what "soon" means. That's why I was not able to return it earlier. I could have sold it on eBay because it is not an utterly useless device but €270 is not the street value for an used 64GB PlayBook. I admit that I wasn't that satisfied with the PlayBook anymore, however, I was satisfied enough not to sell it for a couple of bucks. Nonetheless, I definitely know that "soon" is something totally different than "never". BBRY finally admitting to break their promise gave me the chance to get a full refund although the PlayBook served me well over the last 14 months. I figured that I need to give it a go because it's a deal I just could not pass on.
    07-01-13 07:51 AM
  10. irweezyy's Avatar
    I can't wait to see all these PlayBooks go up for sale even cheaper than 150$ retail price lol, will be buying some of those up for surree so I can connect 1 to every tv in the house!

    Posted via CB10
    FF22 likes this.
    07-01-13 09:28 AM
  11. FF22's Avatar
    @Hirazi
    It's not about allowing customers to change their minds after having profited "enough" from their purchase, it's about protecting them from being fooled into purchase contracts by false promises.

    BBRY's promise was to bring BB10 to the PlayBook soon after its launch. I cannot define what "soon" means. That's why I was not able to return it earlier. I could have sold it on eBay because it is not an utterly useless device but €270 is not the street value for an used 64GB PlayBook. I admit that I wasn't that satisfied with the PlayBook anymore, however, I was satisfied enough not to sell it for a couple of bucks. Nonetheless, I definitely know that "soon" is something totally different than "never". BBRY finally admitting to break their promise gave me the chance to get a full refund although the PlayBook served me well over the last 14 months. I figured that I need to give it a go because it's a deal I just could not pass on.
    That is the issue that can be what is called "actionable." There was a promise that a product would do a specific thing, run bb10, and then the company reneged on that promise or CONTRACT. In some jurisdictions that is all that is needed. In others more may need to be proved. Consumer laws vary and in Germany, at least, folks are entitled to rely on the law. Not others feelings of what is fair or right or just.

    While many probably did not rely on bb10 coming, others most assuredly did rely on that and the ceo's statement - it is coming. In some purchasing arrangements, that ceo statement is just as binding as some written contract.

    Or maybe will we see too many people exercising that option and Amazon.de or other German sellers balking and not being as congenial.
    07-01-13 10:48 AM
  12. Hirazi Blue's Avatar
    Your absolutely right (I think) from a legal point of view. This was, however, not the slant I was taking with this. Everybody's so happy to get rid of their Playbook shockingly quickly. Again: if it's such a terrible machine, you could have figured this out sooner and moved on then

    ps - Don't get me wrong: everybody's allowed to deal with this in his/her own way and it is an interesting legal POV to use...
    FF22 likes this.
    07-01-13 10:58 AM
  13. Marauder2's Avatar
    Your absolutely right (I think) from a legal point of view. This was, however, not the slant I was taking with this. Everybody's so happy to get rid of their Playbook shockingly quickly. Again: if it's such a terrible machine, you could have figured this out sooner and moved on then

    ps - Don't get me wrong: everybody's allowed to deal with this in his/her own way and it is an interesting legal POV to use...
    I think, at least partly, the PlayBook is becoming aged hardware and the OS is in dire need of an update. There are lots of good options out there now like Note, nexus and ipad mini but instead of people going out and getting one of those they refrained simply because BlackBerry said BB10 would come to the PB. A better browser, better keyboard, quicker OS and made some other bug fixes are all some people want. We could get those on other devices but waited months because of the promise, not necessarily because it's a bad product. BB10 would make the PB almost as good as the new devices so why not wait for it?

    Posted via CB10
    FF22 likes this.
    07-01-13 11:07 AM
  14. sbndrf's Avatar
    Again: if it's such a terrible machine, you could have figured this out sooner and moved on then.
    Never said that I didn't move on to a certain extend. That just did not include getting rid of the device itself. At least until now.
    07-01-13 11:16 AM
  15. xeslaro's Avatar
    Your absolutely right (I think) from a legal point of view. This was, however, not the slant I was taking with this. Everybody's so happy to get rid of their Playbook shockingly quickly. Again: if it's such a terrible machine, you could have figured this out sooner and moved on then

    ps - Don't get me wrong: everybody's allowed to deal with this in his/her own way and it is an interesting legal POV to use...
    You misunderstand the OP it seems. He gave a situation and your riposte is aimed at something completely different.

    1. He is not in anyway stating that it is a terrible machine.
    2. "everybody" getting rid of the playbook is not the OP's problem nor is he required to acquiesce himself with other's reason/s.

    The premise is based on the initial purchase which was concluded in the belief the product (Playbook) would be enhanced at a future date - Blackberry officially rescinded on the promise making the initial attraction to purchase based on a misrepresentation. Let's say you purchased a vehicle with a 5 year warranty and the manufacturer subsequently changes it to 2 years retrospectively, would you not feel done in?

    Well done to you OP - your story made for pleasant reading.
    FF22 likes this.
    07-01-13 12:03 PM
  16. hreiner1's Avatar
    the BB programmers must have found out that:

    1 ghz chip speed, 1 gb memory are not fast enough for OS10

    This must be the reason that we never got Skype, Netflix and so many other great apps
    Plus the multitasking does not work so well on 1 ghz, and 1 gb memory
    That's why we have the slow browser checkered board, problem with streaming, opening larger word, excel and pdf files
    and that's way there is a limited bridge function from Z10 to PB
    the tech rep from BB wrote to me yesterday that there will be an OS update regarding the memory allocation

    so lets wait for BB OS 2.0 if it ever comes
    07-01-13 12:12 PM
  17. joshua_sx1's Avatar
    the BB programmers must have found out that:

    1 ghz chip speed, 1 gb memory are not fast enough for OS10
    Just now? Either BlackBerry didn't really work on BB10 for PlayBook before and just found out now (when they did)... or they knew it already, even before releasing Z10 publicly, but let us believe on their promises that BB10 will be available to all versions of PlayBook...


    Posted via Z10
    FF22 likes this.
    07-01-13 12:38 PM
  18. paradroid28's Avatar
    When excactly dir RIM promise (for the first time) BB10 would come to the PB?
    Any citations?

    Kind regards
    Paradroid
    07-01-13 01:17 PM
  19. sbndrf's Avatar
    When excactly dir RIM promise (for the first time) BB10 would come to the PB?
    Any citations?

    Kind regards
    Paradroid
    I did a quick search and the oldest promise of BB10 on the PlayBook I could find was from March 2012:
    RIM confirms BB10 is coming to BlackBerry Playbook | News | TechRadar
    FF22 likes this.
    07-01-13 03:43 PM
  20. FF22's Avatar
    I did a quick search and the oldest promise of BB10 on the PlayBook I could find was from March 2012:
    RIM confirms BB10 is coming to BlackBerry Playbook | News | TechRadar
    Well done. It would be interesting to see if there are even earlier references but I'll leave that as an exercise for google experts.
    07-01-13 04:18 PM
  21. ubeda92's Avatar
    "Again: if it's such a terrible machine, you could have figured this out sooner and moved on then "

    You obviously don't have a clue as to what the OP is conveying.

    The OP could not avail himself of the relief provided by EU/German law UNTIL that POS Thorsten Heins, last Friday, admitted that he had LIED about bringing OS 10 to Playbooks.
    sbndrf likes this.
    07-01-13 06:21 PM
  22. ubeda92's Avatar
    "When excactly dir RIM promise (for the first time) BB10 would come to the PB?"

    Feel free to do your own research on this matter.
    07-01-13 06:22 PM
  23. Hirazi Blue's Avatar
    The OP could not avail himself of the relief provided by EU/German law
    Are you sure this is EU law?
    07-02-13 04:10 AM
  24. raykutro's Avatar
    I really appreciate your action OP. This is what users should do to BlackBerry now. Its not about PlayBook, BB10 and any other device, its about cheating to your customers, its about making false promises just to sell your remaining inventory, first they fool us and then they expect us to be loyal with them, Huh! no CEO, or company has done that in recent past, only Mr. Thor has this liar label attached to him.

    I would love to see more people doing the same for sake of consumers' respect and rights. Companies like BlackBerry takes consumers for granted, and they really think they can get away with anything. People who can't return or don't want to return PlayBooks or other BB devices, at least send emails to BlackBerry official guys, and criticize them with harsh words about their recent horrible actions. They don't seem to be reading CrackBerry posts.
    07-02-13 04:21 AM
  25. Thie rry's Avatar
    Hello every body !

    Like some of you, I paid the higher price for the PlayBook, 600? more or less for the 32go model. Like you, disapointed after 2 years by promessis and beautifull app presented in official PlayBook shows, weest of time for nothing because we nether see anything !
    The PlayBook remember me the Newton...

    I support every one Who need this possibilitis to do this action law and get here money back !!!

    Some one could tell me if it's work in France for the byer ?

    Thank you for your reading and your help.
    07-02-13 04:59 AM
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