[Unsure2]

According to a survey cited at Survey cites Amazon Kindle Fire likes and dislikes | Nanotech - The Circuits Blog - CNET News, the Amazon Fire does reasonably well in terms of user satisfaction, but falls short in a few areas where, interestingly enough, the Playbook has what the Fire lacks:

"While the 54 percent Very Satisfied rating for the Kindle Fire is considerably below the 74 percent rating of the industry leading Apple iPad, it is higher than the 49 percent average rating for all of the other tablet devices combined," Changewave said.

And what do users dislike about the Fire? No volume button ranks first in dislikes, while the lack of camera is second, and battery life third."

Lack of a microphone is another of the 8 deficiencies noted by Fire users.

So, well as the Fire does, in at least 3-4 hardware areas, the Playbook could do even better in terms of user satisfaction, if only it had an attractive ecosystem.

[barskin]

I don't know why we bother comparing the Kindle Fire (or the Nook Color, for that matter) with the PlayBook. The Kindle Fire is a very nice EReader with some extras. The PlayBook is a full out tablet PC.

[Unsure2]

The Fire is a tablet, too. I've used it and it isn't bad at all--browsing was snappy, lots of apps, etc. Of course, it will function as an eReader. So does the Playbook, once Beta OS2 and the Android Kindle App are installed. Neither are as good as the real Kindle eReaders--nothing beats a monochrome "ink" display for contrast and readability.

The reason the Playbook gets compared to the Fire is the identical form factor. The Fire, apparently selling at 2 million/month with reasonable customer satisfaction, shows there is healthy demand for a 7" device.

[kennyliu]

The Fire is a tablet, too. I've used it and it isn't bad at all--browsing was snappy, lots of apps, etc. Of course, it will function as an eReader. So does the Playbook, once Beta OS2 and the Android Kindle App are installed. Neither are as good as the real Kindle eReaders--nothing beats a monochrome "ink" display for contrast and readability.

The reason the Playbook gets compared to the Fire is the identical form factor. The Fire, apparently selling at 2 million/month with reasonable customer satisfaction, shows there is healthy demand for a 7" device.

I also don't understand what makes people claim the Fire is just a reader. It's as much a reader as any other tablet, including the Playbook.

Talking of true e-readers, you are absolutely correct. Nothing beats e-ink with its paper-like readability and miniscule battery consumption. Unfortunately, I don't like the last generation of the Kindle. The ghosting due to the 5-page refresh cycle makes the screen much worse than it was on Kindle 3.

[alnamvet68]

There is no comparison; one is a pc in tablet form, the other is a entertainment device with an added benefit of being an e-reader. Of course, one has to be literate to use the Kindle's e-reader function, and I have some doubts as to the level of literacy of some of these owners since had they read the full specs of both devices, they would have bought a PlayBook for less money then the overpriced Kindle.

[FF22]

There is no comparison; one is a pc in tablet form, the other is a entertainment device with an added benefit of being an e-reader. Of course, one has to be literate to use the Kindle's e-reader function, and I have some doubts as to the level of literacy of some of these owners since had they read the full specs of both devices, they would have bought a PlayBook for less money then the overpriced Kindle.

Amazon has done a lot of breed customer satisfaction including exceptional service - almost a no questions asked replacement for problem units and some, even after warranty ends. None of this 90 day tech support/pay after that. And, I guess folks probably think that Amazon will be around next year and obviously, they have tons of books for sale meaning there is a definite underlying reason to own their devices. But I have no personal experience with the Fire having not even seen one. But my Kindle3 is an exceptional device making me a satisfied Amazon customer in that respect.

Let's hope that OS2 really sells the PB and rim recovers from the poor launch. It does not have to compete with any other device - it just has to be a topnotch device in its own right.

[fourboysplus]

I don't know why we bother comparing the Kindle Fire (or the Nook Color, for that matter) with the PlayBook. The Kindle Fire is a very nice EReader with some extras. The PlayBook is a full out tablet PC.

My thougths exactly!

[alnamvet68]

Another way to put it is a Kindle is like a friend with the occassional "benefit", limited and temporary as that might be; the PlayBook is like a good spouse that you plan on keeping for the long haul, for better or for worse. Of course, just about every tablet out there would fit the Kindle "friend" description.

[brucep1]

I don't know why we bother comparing the Kindle Fire (or the Nook Color, for that matter) with the PlayBook. The Kindle Fire is a very nice EReader with some extras. The PlayBook is a full out tablet PC.

A lot of people compare them because they have similar prices and go after similar markets.

[pantlesspenguin]

The Fire is a tablet, too. I've used it and it isn't bad at all--browsing was snappy, lots of apps, etc. Of course, it will function as an eReader. So does the Playbook, once Beta OS2 and the Android Kindle App are installed. Neither are as good as the real Kindle eReaders--nothing beats a monochrome "ink" display for contrast and readability.

The reason the Playbook gets compared to the Fire is the identical form factor. The Fire, apparently selling at 2 million/month with reasonable customer satisfaction, shows there is healthy demand for a 7" device.

Agreed, I used the Fire for about a month before I sold it to get a PB. People have to remember that the Fire has access to an extensive catalog of apps. This let me put email, calendar, office suite, etc onto my Fire making for dang near full functionality that I required. However, I had severe touchscreen issues while browsing the web which was a deal-breaker for me. After getting the PB the only things I miss is all the apps, Netflix, and the ability to read Kindle books offline.

[Economist101]

The Fire, apparently selling at 2 million/month with reasonable customer satisfaction, shows there is healthy demand for a 7" device.

At $200. There is healthy demand at $200. Unfortunately, this is not a profitable price for the KF (as Amazon's earnings show), and certainly isn't profitable for the PlayBook.

[alnamvet68]

A friend of the family owns a local Jeep dealership, and he states they really don't make any money on the vehicles they sell (~ $200.00 per Jeep sold)...all their profit comes from after market sales, like accessories, service, body shop, etc. They do, and in reduced dollars these days, get a bonus from the Chrysler folks at the end of the year, for each unit sold, and that bonus is wholly dependent on the total number of units sold; the higher the number sold, the higher the per unit bonus...per him, that bonus typically averages about $125.00 per vehicle. That said, I am of the opinion that RIMM and Amazon can sell the PB or Fire at break even prices, or at a small loss, and still do well through the sales of their after-market eco-system which support these loss leader hardware devices.

[TheScionicMan]

Based on the amount of Fires sold before they were even touchable, it once again points to MARKETING as being a key factor in tablet sales...

[brucep1]

A friend of the family owns a local Jeep dealership, and he states they really don't make any money on the vehicles they sell (~ $200.00 per Jeep sold)...all their profit comes from after market sales, like accessories, service, body shop, etc. They do, and in reduced dollars these days, get a bonus from the Chrysler folks at the end of the year, for each unit sold, and that bonus is wholly dependent on the total number of units sold; the higher the number sold, the higher the per unit bonus...per him, that bonus typically averages about $125.00 per vehicle. That said, I am of the opinion that RIMM and Amazon can sell the PB or Fire at break even prices, or at a small loss, and still do well through the sales of their after-market eco-system which support these loss leader hardware devices.

The Fire has the backing of Amazon Prime which costs over $50 a year for a subscription. They also profit off the eBooks. Rim system pales in comparison.

[conix67]

A friend of the family owns a local Jeep dealership, and he states they really don't make any money on the vehicles they sell (~ $200.00 per Jeep sold)...all their profit comes from after market sales, like accessories, service, body shop, etc. They do, and in reduced dollars these days, get a bonus from the Chrysler folks at the end of the year, for each unit sold, and that bonus is wholly dependent on the total number of units sold; the higher the number sold, the higher the per unit bonus...per him, that bonus typically averages about $125.00 per vehicle. That said, I am of the opinion that RIMM and Amazon can sell the PB or Fire at break even prices, or at a small loss, and still do well through the sales of their after-market eco-system which support these loss leader hardware devices.

What does RIM have to offer other than App World? Music store and the promised video store? Will those be reason enough for consumers to pick up PB over others?

RIM cannot survive selling PB at loss, period. The current sales is desperate move to create a PB market, not a calculated one.

[Economist101]

Based on the amount of Fires sold before they were even touchable, it once again points to MARKETING as being a key factor in tablet sales...

"Marketing" is a key factor in most sales. It's just not the only favor, no matter how many times you claim it is.

[Chillboyx]

I had a Nook tablet, chose it over the Fire because of the SPEED and smoothness of the OS itself. Liked the nook a lot for reading and netflix looked stunning. The browser was awful!! I rooted it and gained access to the Amazon app store. Now it functioned like a Kindle fire with slightly better hardware. I downloaded dolphin and other browsers and none of them worked well. I find android very glitchy, had to reboot often, no working browser, it would get stuck for no reason, touch screen stopped responding, the problems began to overshadow the experience and I returned it. The playbook was on sale and I got the 64gb version. I'm a movie buff and figured I'd give it a try and if nothing else it would be perfect for carrying HD movies around and HDMI to TV's when I visit friends and I could read books on it and browse the net. The PB KILLS the nook tablet on all levels! Extremely reliable, cameras work and look awesome, hdmi out works without getting all glitchy and weird. Just needs a few apps to be perfect, but I'm patient for now. If the PB can stay at this price point and the PB2 is priced cheaper, its a slam dunk for rim. They can easily steal some of those Fire customers with a good marketing campaign. I personally like things to WORK, which is why I won't be buying another android device anytime soon.

[conix67]

I had a Nook tablet, chose it over the Fire because of the SPEED and smoothness of the OS itself. Liked the nook a lot for reading and netflix looked stunning. The browser was awful!! I rooted it and gained access to the Amazon app store. Now it functioned like a Kindle fire with slightly better hardware. I downloaded dolphin and other browsers and none of them worked well. I find android very glitchy, had to reboot often, no working browser, it would get stuck for no reason, touch screen stopped responding, the problems began to overshadow the experience and I returned it. The playbook was on sale and I got the 64gb version. I'm a movie buff and figured I'd give it a try and if nothing else it would be perfect for carrying HD movies around and HDMI to TV's when I visit friends and I could read books on it and browse the net. The PB KILLS the nook tablet on all levels! Extremely reliable, cameras work and look awesome, hdmi out works without getting all glitchy and weird. Just needs a few apps to be perfect, but I'm patient for now. If the PB can stay at this price point and the PB2 is priced cheaper, its a slam dunk for rim. They can easily steal some of those Fire customers with a good marketing campaign. I personally like things to WORK, which is why I won't be buying another android device anytime soon.

We all know what PB is good at, but the price won't stay at this level for sure, and PB2 /w 3G will definitely be priced higher.

OS and hardware must be good and stable, but what sells device like this is the price and applications.

[omniusovermind]

Quite simply, the Fire was the first $200 "tablet" to be highly advertised. The current PB at around the same price range is not being highly advertised by RIM. I've yet to see much of any advertising on TV, newspaper, or internet for the Playbook by RIM. The only reason I heard about the PB at all was a local boxing week sale flyer, and that had nothing to do with RIM placing that ad, and more to do with me aggressively looking for tablet sales.

If the PB in its current form today were to be introduced to the public awareness at the same time as the Fire, the Fire wouldn't be outselling it nearly as much because the Playbook has more powerful hardware and OS, while the Fire has more apps (for a short while). If you were to fast forward to OS2, The Fire would be falling behind the PB in every possible way.

-half of PB's RAM
-a phone version of Android... on a tablet
-only 8 GB non expandable memory
-smaller battery
-no cameras
-no full access to Google android market (browse only, no installing)
-no HDMI out

pretty clear cut. I don't even know why we're having this discussion at all.

[alnamvet68]

Quite simply, the Fire was the first $200 "tablet" to be highly advertised. The current PB at around the same price range is not being highly advertised by RIM. I've yet to see much of any advertising on TV, newspaper, or internet for the Playbook by RIM. The only reason I heard about the PB at all was a local boxing week sale flyer, and that had nothing to do with RIM placing that ad, and more to do with me aggressively looking for tablet sales.

If the PB in its current form today were to be introduced to the public awareness at the same time as the Fire, the Fire wouldn't be outselling it nearly as much because the Playbook has more powerful hardware and OS, while the Fire has more apps (for a short while). If you were to fast forward to OS2, The Fire would be falling behind the PB in every possible way.

-half of PB's RAM
-a phone version of Android... on a tablet
-only 8 GB non expandable memory
-smaller battery
-no cameras
-no full access to Google android market (browse only, no installing)
-no HDMI out

pretty clear cut. I don't even know why we're having this discussion at all.

We're having this discussion because there are people here, who I have no idea why they are here, who post nothing but negativity when it concerns all things RIM; a couple are knowledgeable tech types, most are just dilitantes, one who thinks he's a modern day Adam Smith, a boat load of game player types who should stick with their Commodore 64's, and the rest just an assorted crowd of malcontents, spoiled rotten, overly entitled, and pathologically immature, with no clue how to have an intelligent, fair, and balanced discussion.

[kennyliu]

Quite simply, the Fire was the first $200 "tablet" to be highly advertised. The current PB at around the same price range is not being highly advertised by RIM. I've yet to see much of any advertising on TV, newspaper, or internet for the Playbook by RIM. The only reason I heard about the PB at all was a local boxing week sale flyer, and that had nothing to do with RIM placing that ad, and more to do with me aggressively looking for tablet sales.

If the PB in its current form today were to be introduced to the public awareness at the same time as the Fire, the Fire wouldn't be outselling it nearly as much because the Playbook has more powerful hardware and OS, while the Fire has more apps (for a short while). If you were to fast forward to OS2, The Fire would be falling behind the PB in every possible way.

-half of PB's RAM
-a phone version of Android... on a tablet
-only 8 GB non expandable memory
-smaller battery
-no cameras
-no full access to Google android market (browse only, no installing)
-no HDMI out

pretty clear cut. I don't even know why we're having this discussion at all.

There was a huge advertisement campaign for the Playbook as well. iPad killer. Immature hour is over. First and only professional tablet. Slogans like these were pretty much everywhere.

Wait ten months and you won't hear a word about the Fire too.

[kennyliu]

We're having this discussion because there are people here, who I have no idea why they are here, who post nothing but negativity when it concerns all things RIM; a couple are knowledgeable tech types, most are just dilitantes, one who thinks he's a modern day Adam Smith, a boat load of game player types who should stick with their Commodore 64's, and the rest just an assorted crowd of malcontents, spoiled rotten, overly entitled, and pathologically immature, with no clue how to have an intelligent, fair, and balanced discussion.

Yes, most are just stupid sheep and a couple of superhumans Right?

[albee 1]

Another way to put it is a Kindle is like a friend with the occassional "benefit", limited and temporary as that might be; the PlayBook is like a good spouse that you plan on keeping for the long haul, for better or for worse. Of course, just about every tablet out there would fit the Kindle "friend" description.

Actually your first description describes my ex wife perfectly! Hahaha

[GallagherPreach]

My daughter has a Kindle Fire and she enjoys it because it fits her needs. She loves to read and the Kindle Fire is a very nice ereader with some gaming capability.

The Playbooks fits my needs because I am using it in a work environment. The apps fit my work schedule. The Playbook also feels much sturdier than the Kindle Fire.

Just my thoughts.

[rjedge54]

We're having this discussion because there are people here, who I have no idea why they are here, who post nothing but negativity when it concerns all things RIM; a couple are knowledgeable tech types, most are just dilitantes, one who thinks he's a modern day Adam Smith, a boat load of game player types who should stick with their Commodore 64's, and the rest just an assorted crowd of malcontents, spoiled rotten, overly entitled, and pathologically immature, with no clue how to have an intelligent, fair, and balanced discussion.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel..