08-14-12 01:37 AM
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  1. mikeo007's Avatar
    Check again.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
    Ok I'll check. Yup, still the same. Context switching dozens of times for a single system call is still slow.
    08-10-12 09:00 AM
  2. Im Mo Green's Avatar
    Poor netiquette to not post a link to the actual article:

    BlackBerry PlayBook 4G LTE hands-on -- Engadget

    I find this quote interesting:

    "It's good news for those who aren't fans of carrier bloatware slipping into their tablets, although it also means there's no Bridge-free BlackBerry Messenger or built-in turn-by-turn navigation. We're also baffled by the lack of built-in hotspot creation support, which would make a very convincing case for the PlayBook as an oversized router."

    Wow. Really RIM?

    How can they not include BBM on this thing? That's just ridiculous.
    Yes it was poor "netiquette", but you located the article and posted the link, so good job skippy!!! That is why we love having you on the boards
    08-10-12 09:00 AM
  3. morlock_man's Avatar
    Ok I'll check. Yup, still the same. Context switching dozens of times for a single system call is still slow.
    Yeah, except QNX process switches are faster than Unix thread switches. It's been stated before, the cost of context switching in a QNX kernel is minimal.
    Last edited by morlock_man; 08-10-12 at 09:24 AM.
    08-10-12 09:15 AM
  4. mikeo007's Avatar
    Yeah, except QNX process switches are faster than Unix thread switches. It's been stated before, the cost of context switching in a QNX kernel is minimal.
    It doesn't matter. The fact still remains, the average system call on another unix system requires 2 context switches. On a microkernel system, the number of switches is exponentially higher. QNX context switches may be fast, but they still take time. Exponentially increasing that time makes the system slower.

    Plus, let's get back to the playbook. Unless I'm mistaking, the playbook browser is built on adobe air. That's yet another layer for hardware calls to traverse. I stand by my statement that the performance gains are not only related to the bump in clock speed, but also to enhancements to the browser rendering engine.
    08-10-12 09:34 AM
  5. morlock_man's Avatar
    It doesn't matter. The fact still remains, the average system call on another unix system requires 2 context switches. On a microkernel system, the number of switches is exponentially higher. QNX context switches may be fast, but they still take time. Exponentially increasing that time makes the system slower.

    Plus, let's get back to the playbook. Unless I'm mistaking, the playbook browser is built on adobe air. That's yet another layer for hardware calls to traverse. I stand by my statement that the performance gains are not only related to the bump in clock speed, but also to enhancements to the browser rendering engine.
    How does that not matter? The Neutrino kernel can completely switch processes and working memory space faster than traditional monolithic kernels can switch threads within the same memory space. That's huge.

    If you're going to throw out claims about the exponentially time increase required to perform tasks on the kernel, how about some evidence? Why aren't the benchmarks demonstrating the system to be as slow as molasses compared to the competition?
    08-10-12 09:57 AM
  6. mathprof08's Avatar
    This review is weird. They sing the praises of the 4G LTE PlayBook (for the most part) throughout the review, then at the end they say it isn't any good and you should buy something else. They just couldn't overcome their intrinsic dislike of all things RIM. Still, any positive words about a BB product from Engadget is progress, I suppose.
    beavertail2 likes this.
    08-10-12 10:05 AM
  7. sleepngbear's Avatar
    The new PB is faster than the old one, that's the bottom line. Does it really matter at this point how efficient the microkernel architecture is or isn't?!
    JeepBB and rcm1301 like this.
    08-10-12 10:32 AM
  8. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Here's another positive article, perhaps a little too positive, but it's a nice read.. It doesn't seem to merit a new thread, so I'm going to add it to the discussion here. Hope that's OK

    4G LTE BlackBerry PlayBook makes iOS and Android devices feel about as sophisticated as my daughter’s old 'Speak & Spell'

    4G LTE BlackBerry PlayBook makes iOS and Android devices feel about as sophisticated as my daughter
    DrBit2011 and sk8er_tor like this.
    08-10-12 11:25 AM
  9. torndownunit's Avatar
    This review is weird. They sing the praises of the 4G LTE PlayBook (for the most part) throughout the review, then at the end they say it isn't any good and you should buy something else. They just couldn't overcome their intrinsic dislike of all things RIM. Still, any positive words about a BB product from Engadget is progress, I suppose.
    It's not weird at all. They come to the exact same conclusion that a lot of users come to, even here on Crackberry. It's a great piece of hardware that needs more apps. If you are reviewing it comparing side by side with other tablets, based on what people normally use tablets for, it's hard not to come to that conclusion. RIM is not going to change the entire consumer bases mindset about what a tablet should be used for. And people want to be able to use their apps. That is always going to be a key part of any review.

    And it had better be a part of reviews or you are going to end up with more threads on here with people being told 'why did you buy it if it didn't fit your needs then' lol.
    Last edited by torndownunit; 08-10-12 at 11:29 AM.
    randall2580 likes this.
    08-10-12 11:27 AM
  10. TRlPPlN's Avatar
    So if someone thinks BB's app ecosystem is crap, they're uneducated? Take off the rose-coloured glasses pal.
    naaah not taking anything off. it is what it is. a smart consumer can educate themselves if a playbook (or any device)can work them or not vs. just assuming it's crap because that's what majority of people say. so yeah...leaving my rose shades on buddy.

    here's a good example...
    Wow. Really RIM? How can they not include BBM on this thing? That's just ridiculous.
    Last edited by TRlPPlN; 08-10-12 at 04:23 PM.
    beavertail2 likes this.
    08-10-12 12:04 PM
  11. mathprof08's Avatar
    It's not weird at all. They come to the exact same conclusion that a lot of users come to, even here on Crackberry. It's a great piece of hardware that needs more apps. If you are reviewing it comparing side by side with other tablets, based on what people normally use tablets for, it's hard not to come to that conclusion. RIM is not going to change the entire consumer bases mindset about what a tablet should be used for. And people want to be able to use their apps. That is always going to be a key part of any review.

    And it had better be a part of reviews or you are going to end up with more threads on here with people being told 'why did you buy it if it didn't fit your needs then' lol.
    My point is that the whole article was: "PB is great!" Then at the end: "Don't buy it." Struck me as odd.
    08-10-12 12:26 PM
  12. torndownunit's Avatar
    My point is that the whole article was: "PB is great!" Then at the end: "Don't buy it." Struck me as odd.
    Well again, it's advice people give on here all the time. The Playbook does not run a lot of apps. That situation won't be changing anytime soon. So if apps are a requirement, you probably should look at other devices.

    The other issue he mentions is another issue commonly brought up on this forum. If you own a Playbook 1, is the Playbook 2 worth upgrading to at it's price point?

    They are both very fair points, raised in many threads about the 4G Playbook on this forum. Both would be valid reasons for not suggesting people 'jump on it'.
    08-10-12 12:36 PM
  13. howarmat's Avatar
    i think when they bring in the price factor its a no buy. remember this is more than $500 again or you are locked into a 3 year data contract and you can buy a wifi version for under $200 that will do mostly the exact same thing. Its hard to recommend he 4G version unless you have certain specific needs or criteria
    08-10-12 12:37 PM
  14. SifJar's Avatar
    i think when they bring in the price factor its a no buy. remember this is more than $500 again or you are locked into a 3 year data contract and you can buy a wifi version for under $200 that will do mostly the exact same thing. Its hard to recommend he 4G version unless you have certain specific needs or criteria
    Exactly. You can get a portable hotspot "MiFi" thing for much less than the difference, and have access to at least 3G (dunno if there are 4G versions of those things, but there probably are) anywhere you go (well, anywhere with signal; same case with the actual 4G PB).

    That leaves the only real advantages being (i) convenience (easier not to have to have one of the MiFi things with you) and (ii) the faster processor (which according to the reviews, is a noticeable improvement)
    jpash549 likes this.
    08-10-12 12:46 PM
  15. texazzpete's Avatar
    why is this a shock RIM has stated numerous times that BBM was coming to a QNX based system until BB10 is released. At the very least Engadget should know this or do a little research before posting their outrage that it is not there.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk
    Yes, anytime any journalist posts something you don't like, the 'do a little research' line gets trotted out.

    FYI, the 'outrage' from Engadget wasn't about the lack of BBM. It was about the lack of any mobile hotspot feature. This is STANDARD on any other tablet out there, FYI.
    08-10-12 03:22 PM
  16. sagec's Avatar
    It doesn't matter. The fact still remains, the average system call on another unix system requires 2 context switches. On a microkernel system, the number of switches is exponentially higher. QNX context switches may be fast, but they still take time. Exponentially increasing that time makes the system slower.

    Plus, let's get back to the playbook. Unless I'm mistaking, the playbook browser is built on adobe air. That's yet another layer for hardware calls to traverse. I stand by my statement that the performance gains are not only related to the bump in clock speed, but also to enhancements to the browser rendering engine.
    Nonsense. The browser UI is Adobe AIR, the renderer/engine is native C compiled for QNX. This has been beaten to death.
    08-10-12 03:27 PM
  17. PineappleUnderTheSea's Avatar
    The review was overall positive, but the pricing is a huge negative. $350 for a 3 year contract is awful, especially since you're stuck with a 32 GB tablet for 3 years, which (A) is not a lot of storage space for those who download big apps, and (B) will likely not be able to smoothly run the latest apps after a couple of years.

    I'm not saying the thing is DOA, but $200 off is not much for a 3 year contract.

    We'll have to see what the US does in terms of pricing and contract terms.
    08-10-12 04:01 PM
  18. bitek's Avatar
    good to see positive reviews but it is even better to see more and more positive comments.
    08-10-12 05:02 PM
  19. bitek's Avatar
    The review was overall positive, but the pricing is a huge negative. $350 for a 3 year contract is awful, especially since you're stuck with a 32 GB tablet for 3 years, which (A) is not a lot of storage space for those who download big apps, and (B) will likely not be able to smoothly run the latest apps after a couple of years.

    I'm not saying the thing is DOA, but $200 off is not much for a 3 year contract.

    We'll have to see what the US does in terms of pricing and contract terms.
    i agree. this new playbook should be $199 and $249 for 64GB version.
    08-10-12 05:03 PM
  20. BBPandy's Avatar
    Yes, anytime any journalist posts something you don't like, the 'do a little research' line gets trotted out.

    FYI, the 'outrage' from Engadget wasn't about the lack of BBM. It was about the lack of any mobile hotspot feature. This is STANDARD on any other tablet out there, FYI.
    Yea I have to admit it not having moble hotspot was a suprise to me.....everything else was as expected, & the big increase in browser speed that seems to be impressing a lot of tech bloggers was a nice unexpected suprise.
    08-10-12 07:39 PM
  21. mikeo007's Avatar
    Nonsense. The browser UI is Adobe AIR, the renderer/engine is native C compiled for QNX. This has been beaten to death.
    Right, I stand corrected on the extra extra layer then. That doesn't change anything else about my microkernel argument though.

    To reverse a question asked earlier, if the microkernel is SO good, why is RIM the only company attempting to use it in mass produced consumer goods?
    08-10-12 09:46 PM
  22. stackberry369's Avatar
    Yea I have to admit it not having moble hotspot was a suprise to me.....everything else was as expected, & the big increase in browser speed that seems to be impressing a lot of tech bloggers was a nice unexpected suprise.
    why do you need a hotspot on a tablet when you have hotspot on your phone?
    08-10-12 10:05 PM
  23. howarmat's Avatar
    why do you need a hotspot on a tablet when you have hotspot on your phone?
    there are LTE BBs?
    08-10-12 10:23 PM
  24. Darlaten's Avatar
    why do you need a hotspot on a tablet when you have hotspot on your phone?
    Why do you even need a phone when you can use two cans and a piece of string and talk to someone?
    08-10-12 11:08 PM
  25. jeroen_13's Avatar
    Its pretty sad that they havent launched it with OS 2.1 ....
    08-11-12 05:38 AM
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