07-05-12 09:11 PM
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  1. CoW_CoUnTrY's Avatar
    Nexus 7 will be the last nail on Rim's coffin.

    As much I hate to admit it...Rim is sinking fast.
    Rim has been doing too little too late...
    IMO BB10 will not be the messiah for Rim.
    Too many failed promises... PB's 2.0 OS anyone?
    06-28-12 02:43 AM
  2. Hawnz's Avatar
    Think it's kinda funny people praising the Nexus 7 when it has not come out yet. Does anyone really know how it runs yet? I have tried several android tablets and found all of them to be laggy. As far as battery life goes, I think they promise 9 hours, but I have seen many manufacturers promise 5 hours on a laptop, but you would get 2.5 hours in real world use.
    06-28-12 03:00 AM
  3. Nick Burkhardt's Avatar
    Looks like game over to me https://play.google.com/store/device...id=nexus_7_8gb Faster, lighter and more apps. Unless BB calls in a Blade Runner, the Nexus 7 has no retirement date.
    06-28-12 03:02 AM
  4. texazzpete's Avatar
    Think it's kinda funny people praising the Nexus 7 when it has not come out yet. Does anyone really know how it runs yet? I have tried several android tablets and found all of them to be laggy. As far as battery life goes, I think they promise 9 hours, but I have seen many manufacturers promise 5 hours on a laptop, but you would get 2.5 hours in real world use.
    The Nexus 7 has a quad core Tegra 3 SoC. In every incarnation of this processor, it has run Android lag-free on ICS. Now the Nexus 7 is shipping with Jelly Bean which has several hardware acceleration enhancements to run even more smoothly at 60fps.
    In short, the Nexus 7 will NOT be laggy. Nearly every major blog has had a hands-on with this device and it definitely flies.

    As far as battery life goes, please for Heaven's sake, do not use your experience with x86 laptops to judge an ARM Tablet. If they promise 8 hours, real world should net you somewhere close to that mark for regular use.

    people are praising the Nexus 7 for what it represents. A quad core tablet with a hi-res IPS screen for $199, replete with practically all the sensors in its bigger brethren like NFC, GPS, accelerometers etc. And as a Nexus device it runs the latest Android version and is guaranteed timely OS updates from Google.

    Even with the $199 version having just 8GB, this will do serious damage to Playbook sales.
    06-28-12 03:13 AM
  5. Hawnz's Avatar
    The Nexus 7 has a quad core Tegra 3 SoC. In every incarnation of this processor, it has run Android lag-free on ICS. Now the Nexus 7 is shipping with Jelly Bean which has several hardware acceleration enhancements to run even more smoothly at 60fps.
    In short, the Nexus 7 will NOT be laggy. Nearly every major blog has had a hands-on with this device and it definitely flies.

    As far as battery life goes, please for Heaven's sake, do not use your experience with x86 laptops to judge an ARM Tablet. If they promise 8 hours, real world should net you somewhere close to that mark for regular use.

    people are praising the Nexus 7 for what it represents. A quad core tablet with a hi-res IPS screen for $199, replete with practically all the sensors in its bigger brethren like NFC, GPS, accelerometers etc. And as a Nexus device it runs the latest Android version and is guaranteed timely OS updates from Google.

    Even with the $199 version having just 8GB, this will do serious damage to Playbook sales.
    Actually, the one review I did read said that scrolling lag finger movement

    Google Nexus 7 tablet from Asus: hands-on video and photos | The Verge

    And as for as battery life, it is more of a statement that manufacturers promise things, but don't deliver. Easiest example- RIM and the Playbook.
    Last edited by Hawnz; 06-28-12 at 03:45 AM.
    06-28-12 03:35 AM
  6. texazzpete's Avatar
    Actually, the one review I did read said that scrolling lag finger movement

    Google Nexus 7 tablet from Asus: hands-on video and photos | The Verge
    It's a preview, not a review. The tablet's not fully done and there's still 3 weeks left to iron out any kinks.

    to be honest, people have come to trust google on delivery...and there's little chance any lag or stutter will be present in the first jelly bean release on a very capable hardware.
    Last edited by texazzpete; 06-28-12 at 03:44 AM.
    06-28-12 03:42 AM
  7. Hawnz's Avatar
    It's a preview, not a review. The tablet's not fully done and there's still 3 weeks left to iron out any kinks.

    to be honest, people have come to trust google on delivery...and there's little chance any lag or stutter will be present in the first jelly bean release on a very capable hardware.
    Then it comes out to what I have said. Wait till it comes out before making a verdict. As you say there are kinks. What is to say that that won't be kinks or maybe hardware defects?

    People have come to trust Google? All I can say is Google Wallet.
    06-28-12 03:54 AM
  8. joshua_sx1's Avatar
    Two questions: (1) Are there still significant inventory of PlayBook in RIM's inventory? (2) Is there still market for a 2-year old PlayBook tablet?

    These two questions will tell us if Nexus 7 can do harm to BlackBerry PlayBook...

    For the new PlayBook, in case RIM is really pushing this through, yes, I believe the Nexus 7 will somehow have an impact...

    Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2
    06-28-12 04:33 AM
  9. billbsb's Avatar
    This is the end of "play time" for RIM. Things just got a lot more serious. If they want to come back and stay in the game, a LOT has to improve. But one thing is for sure, RIM doesn't back out easily so we can expect a good "fight" specially when cornered.

    Cheers!
    06-28-12 04:36 AM
  10. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    The hardware of the Playbook 4G (except the wwan module of course) is already obsolete before it is available (OMAP 4460/1024x600 display) compared to Tegra 3/1280x800 display of the nexus tablet. I wonder why RIM hasn't introduced it already. Products with OMAP 4460 are available since Q4/11. Either RIM improves the hardware specs or the can bury it.
    06-28-12 04:45 AM
  11. rkennedy01's Avatar
    The hardware of the Playbook 4G (except the wwan module of course) is already obsolete before it is available (OMAP 4460/1024x600 display) compared to Tegra 3/1280x800 display of the nexus tablet. I wonder why RIM hasn't introduced it already. Products with OMAP 4460 are available since Q4/11. Either RIM improves the hardware specs or the can bury it.
    You make the mistake of thinking it's an apples to apples comparison (no, not Apple).

    The fact is that QNX squeezes more performance out of two cores than Android squeezes out of four. Give those two cores a 50% clock frequency boost, plus various other architectural, GPU and process-related improvements, and the 4G PB running OS 2.1 will be a thing to behold. Certainly the most capable 7" tablet in terms of practical, useful and accessible compute power.

    Again, Apple didn't think it needed quad cores to power the new iPad, a much larger device with a higher resolution display, so...more isn't always better.

    RCK
    06-28-12 05:11 AM
  12. texazzpete's Avatar
    You make the mistake of thinking it's an apples to apples comparison (no, not Apple).

    The fact is that QNX squeezes more performance out of two cores than Android squeezes out of four. Give those two cores a 50% clock frequency boost, plus various other architectural, GPU and process-related improvements, and the 4G PB running OS 2.1 will be a thing to behold. Certainly the most capable 7" tablet in terms of practical, useful and accessible compute power.

    Again, Apple didn't think it needed quad cores to power the new iPad, a much larger device with a higher resolution display, so...more isn't always better.

    RCK
    This is serious misinformation.

    No matter how 'optimized' you think QNX is over Android, it isn't enough to catch up to the quad core Tegra 3 in CPU speeds and definitely will not make the PlayBook GPU miraculously start pushing more vectors and triangles per second (or whatever GPUs are measured with) than Nvidia's Tegra 3 GPU.

    I'd like to see a source for your bold claims anyway.

    Finally, in the new ipad it's the GPU that does the heavy lifting for the screen, not the CPU. And Apple boosted the GPU from dual core in 2011 to quad core in 2012 to cater for the increased resolution.
    06-28-12 06:07 AM
  13. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Even though the hardware was comparable, the screen of the PB 4G still has only 1024x600. In 2012 this is simply not enough to compete. I stick to it: PB 4G needs a overhaul or they can keep it.
    06-28-12 06:11 AM
  14. mikeplus1's Avatar
    Sorry, just can't help flashing back to Apocalypse Now when I read this thread title.

    06-28-12 06:27 AM
  15. app_Developer's Avatar
    You make the mistake of thinking it's an apples to apples comparison (no, not Apple).

    The fact is that QNX squeezes more performance out of two cores than Android squeezes out of four. Give those two cores a 50% clock frequency boost, plus various other architectural, GPU and process-related improvements, and the 4G PB running OS 2.1 will be a thing to behold. Certainly the most capable 7" tablet in terms of practical, useful and accessible compute power.
    I agree with you in theory. However in practice, most users end up spending a lot of time either in the android emulator or the air runtime, both of which wipe out most of the efficiency advantages.

    When people are using more truly native apps (like iPad users do) then I agree that the PB will feel faster than the Nexus 7.
    06-28-12 06:34 AM
  16. zethaaron's Avatar
    Even though the hardware was comparable, the screen of the PB 4G still has only 1024x600. In 2012 this is simply not enough to compete. I stick to it: PB 4G needs a overhaul or they can keep it.
    I really agree, I don't want to see a PlayBook, a full year and several months after the original's release, and the only upgrade is 4g. I'd like to see a processor upgrade to 1.5-2ghz dual core, or go straight up quad core (however this is much less likely), 2GB of ram, and as you said, a better screen resolution. The current resolution is fine with me but frankly, as you said, it simply will not compete.
    06-28-12 07:13 AM
  17. Sucroid's Avatar
    I agree with you in theory. However in practice, most users end up spending a lot of time either in the android emulator or the air runtime, both of which wipe out most of the efficiency advantages.
    That's very true. That's why we only have native apps. They are all very lean and mean.
    06-28-12 07:14 AM
  18. rkennedy01's Avatar
    This is serious misinformation.
    No, it's OS architecure 101. A more efficient OS will consume fewer CPU cycles for housekeeping tasks, leaving more available for individual applications. You can see this in how a 10 year old PC can still run Linux effectively or how each new version of Windows seems to expand to consume all available cycles (though versions 7/8 seem to have reigned things in a bit). Load Windows 2000 onto a modern PC an watch as your head snaps back from the raw speed of the UI, file system etc.

    Then there's the issue of modularity. QNX is a microkernel OS where most of the app runtime code executes within a series of modular subsystems. The core OS functions are quite lean and scalable, which is why the PB can deliver such a fluid experience on what is arguably dated hardware. By contrast, Android is based on Linux, a monolithic OS where each new layer of complexity weighs down the whole. With such a model, the only real solution is to crank up the harware to compensate, which is why it took 4 cores running at a 30% higher clock frequency to finally deliver a a UI experience approaching that of the PB. And it's also why the dual-core 4G PB at 1.5GHz will likely run circles around its quad core competitors.

    RCK
    Last edited by rkennedy01; 06-28-12 at 07:36 AM.
    06-28-12 07:29 AM
  19. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    The OMAP 4460 is simply an old piece of hardware for a device that is still unreleased. It is manufactured in 45mn. Even if more performance was unnecessary, a modern SoC could deliever the same performance and would use much less power. The original Playbook was when it emerged the only product RIM has released since the appearance of the Bold 9700 with competetive hardware. RIM should continue in bringing new hardware or many many users who do only a feature check won't buy their stuff.
    Last edited by Maxxxpower; 06-28-12 at 07:51 AM.
    06-28-12 07:47 AM
  20. anindoc's Avatar
    Where did the OP go, just one post..... That's it
    This thread should go down as a "classic troll-bait first post".
    06-28-12 07:50 AM
  21. Sucroid's Avatar
    No, it's OS architecure 101. A more efficient OS will consume fewer CPU cycles for housekeeping tasks, leaving more available for individual applications. You can see this in how a 10 year old PC can still run Linux effectively or how each new version of Windows seems to expand to consume all available cycles (though versions 7/8 seem to have reigned things in a bit). Load Windows 2000 onto a modern PC an watch as your head snaps back from the raw speed of the UI, file system etc.

    Then there's the issue of modularity. QNX is a microkernel OS where most of the app runtime code executes within a series of modular subsystems. The core OS functions are quite lean and scalable, which is why the PB can deliver such a fluid experience on what is arguably dated hardware. By contrast, Android is based on Linux, a monolithic OS where each new layer of complexity weighs down the whole. With such a model, the only real solution is to crank up the harware to compensate, which is why it took 4 cores running at a 30% higher clock frequency to finally deliver a a UI experience approaching that of the PB. And it's also why the dual-core 4G PB at 1.5GHz will likely run circles around its quad core competitors.

    RCK
    Since you mentioned the speed of Linux on a 10-yr-old PC and the bloatedness of Android (which is based on Linux) at the same time, how is it that Linux is good for PC but bad for tablet?
    kennyliu likes this.
    06-28-12 07:53 AM
  22. kennyliu's Avatar
    No, it's OS architecure 101. A more efficient OS will consume fewer CPU cycles for housekeeping tasks, leaving more available for individual applications. You can see this in how a 10 year old PC can still run Linux effectively or how each new version of Windows seems to expand to consume all available cycles (though versions 7/8 seem to have reigned things in a bit). Load Windows 2000 onto a modern PC an watch as your head snaps back from the raw speed of the UI, file system etc.

    Then there's the issue of modularity. QNX is a microkernel OS where most of the app runtime code executes within a series of modular subsystems. The core OS functions are quite lean and scalable, which is why the PB can deliver such a fluid experience on what is arguably dated hardware. By contrast, Android is based on Linux, a monolithic OS where each new layer of complexity weighs down the whole. With such a model, the only real solution is to crank up the harware to compensate, which is why it took 4 cores running at a 30% higher clock frequency to finally deliver a a UI experience approaching that of the PB. And it's also why the dual-core 4G PB at 1.5GHz will likely run circles around its quad core competitors.

    RCK
    Microkernel =/= efficiency. Read a bit. Actually, the contrary is true.

    Monolithic kernel =/= inefficiency. IOS is also a monolithic .nix, but it's more fluid than PBOS. Windows XP is a monolithic kernel desktop OS, but guess what the HW requirements are. 64Mb RAM for instance, whereas PBOS eats up 500-600Mb of RAM in idle.

    And no, it's not the quad-core CPU that makes Jelly Bean fluid. As you yourself noted, it's the OS optimization (e.g. HW acceleration and other tweaks), which makes it fluid. Watch their promo video. They compare ICS and Jelly Bean on the same hardware.
    Last edited by kennyliu; 06-28-12 at 08:08 AM.
    app_Developer likes this.
    06-28-12 08:03 AM
  23. kbz1960's Avatar
    Microkernel =/= efficiency. Read a bit. Actually, the contrary is true.

    Monolithic kernel =/= inefficiency. IOS is also a .nix, but it's more fluid than PBOS. Windows XP is a monolithic kernel desktop OS, but guess what the HW requirements are. 64Mb RAM for instance, whereas PBOS eats up 500-600Mb of RAM in idle.

    And no, it's not the quad-core CPU that makes Jelly Bean fluid. As you yourself noted, it's the OS optimization (e.g. HW acceleration and other tweaks), which makes it fluid. Watch their promo video. They compare ICS and Jelly Bean on the same hardware.
    You ever tried to run xp sp3 with only 64mb of ram? Even 512mb its slow.

    Edit: maybe you were saying what the OS itself needs.
    06-28-12 08:07 AM
  24. kennyliu's Avatar
    You ever tried to run xp sp3 with only 64mb of ram? Even 512mb its slow.

    Edit: maybe you were saying what the OS itself needs.
    You ever tried to run PBOS with 64, 128, 256, or even 512Mb? I guess it wont run

    My point is that the claim that a microkernel architecture is more efficient than a monolithic architecture is simply nonsense. In fact, microkernel has been known for its relative inefficiency.
    Last edited by kennyliu; 06-28-12 at 08:16 AM.
    06-28-12 08:11 AM
  25. kbz1960's Avatar
    You ever tried to run PBOS with 64, 128, 256, or even 512Mb? I guess it wont run

    My point is that the claim that a microkernel architecture is more efficient than a monolithic architecture is simply nonsense. In fact, microkernel has been known for its relative inefficiency.
    LOL no. Maybe if I could take some out I would try but I know what the result would be.
    06-28-12 08:22 AM
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