04-21-13 01:24 PM
90 1234
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  1. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    When you say can't read shares? Do you mean simply there's no native provision? In which case, probably true of at least some native file browsers on other tablets?
    Ghost Commander and ES File Explorer are re-packaged Android apps. Swipe down from the top and you'll see the Android player menubar show up. They're not ported to C++ or Webworks for the Playbook.

    As for SMB/CIFS, turns out a lot of Android apps are using the Java jcifs library or roll their own. It's easier to expose the SMB share into the filesystem on Android compared to QNX. Anyway, us mere mortals don't have access to the QNX source that will allow us to do low-level system stuff, so we need Blackberry to do it. For a company that can't even do a proper email client app, that could take a long time.
    04-18-13 04:50 AM
  2. Wongsky's Avatar
    Ghost Commander and ES File Explorer are re-packaged Android apps. Swipe down from the top and you'll see the Android player menubar show up.
    I realise ghost commander is a port, after all, I did mention it. When I was talking about ES File Explorer, I was actually talking about use on Android.

    Including functionality that looks as near as damnit smbclient, is probably not that challenging, for file explorer writers.

    As for SMB/CIFS, turns out a lot of Android apps are using the Java jcifs library or roll their own. It's easier to expose the SMB share into the filesystem on Android compared to QNX.
    Why so? It'll only be done by incorporating something with an SMB client functionality in.

    Anyway, us mere mortals don't have access to the QNX source that will allow us to do low-level system stuff, so we need Blackberry to do it. For a company that can't even do a proper email client app, that could take a long time.
    Yes... but SMB / cifs support in a file explorer client, isn't really low-level stuff. It's either SAMBA client or libary support on the OS - a standalone file explorer can include SMB client functionality.

    The PlayBook obviously has some nebulous of SAMBA, since it's exposing it's own local filesystem as SMB / cifs for WiFi and, in effect, for USB file sharing.
    04-18-13 05:15 AM
  3. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    Holy crap that was long winded.
    By the way, calling software nothing more than 0s and 1s is like saying a car is nothing more than metal and plastic. You aren't paying for 0s and 1s, you are paying for the labor that was involved in getting those 0s and 1s to work in a way you found appealing or useful.
    Even the 0's and 1's don't really exist as such. 0's and 1's are detected by hardware components that recognize physical on and off states. For example an area on a hard drive my be either magnetized or not. Likewise a particular area on on an optical disk may be highly reflective or not so reflective. Data that is sent over the "aether" are structured somewhat like waves. The areas in a data stream that have low energy are recognized as zeroes and segments with higher energy are considered to be ones.

    I don't think that the OP understands that the medium is merely a mass of matter,in the form of random electrons or atoms, until someone like me imprints a specific pattern on it.. My job is to write the instructions that my app eventually executes on his device. In turn, the instructions that I program into my app could never get executed unless BBRY provides the hardware, an operating system that can "run" my "program", and infrastructure that can transport my "program" from my workstation all the way to his device.

    Unfortunately, every time BBRY changes its infrastructure in some way, then I need to provide updates to my app in order to keep it running. What the OP is suggesting is that I should let him decide the value of the work that I do. On the other hand, I think that I should be allowed to make pricing decisions and that the OP can decide whether he wants to pay (or not). Personally, I like the status quo and he will just have to put up with my corrupt capitalistic way of putting food on my table. If he does not want to contribute to my well-being, he is free to boycott me. I don't mind at all.
    04-18-13 02:00 PM
  4. jpash549's Avatar
    As I understand the point, programs are certainly not written as zeroes and ones. They are written in some programming language. Some compiler interprets this language into the language the device uses which is a series of on and offs represented by ones and zeroes. This is the way the program is stored. When transmitted over a wireless connection it is necessary to use some part of the electromagnetic spectrum and modulate the wave so as to represent this series of on and off states and include necessary information so that the receiving device can interpret it and convert it back to the series of zeroes and ones. Amazing that it works at all.

    The originator of this document is allowed to claim certain rights under our system for his efforts on the basis that on the whole it is beneficial so that people will be encouraged to engage in creative processes. When the result is marketed an agreement between buyer and seller is reached often with obscure terms inserted by lawyers. If you agree to these terms you are usually stuck with them unless you wish to challenge them in court. Caveat emptor.

    For software it would seem fair to me that the provider assume the responsibility for making his product functional on the buyers device for which it was originally sold with the Operating Systems specified with no further charge. So the question then is whether BB10 is a new system.

    Maybe all software ought to be free. Then you could use it for nothing and if you like it throw a shilling or two into the basket of the oppressed worker who wrote it.
    04-18-13 03:20 PM
  5. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    Maybe all software ought to be free. Then you could use it for nothing and if you like it throw a shilling or two into the basket of the oppressed worker who wrote it.
    I can't think of a single reason why this scheme would not work. It's completely consistent with human nature and would ensure prosperity for everyone. In fact, it's such a good idea that the scheme should be extended to all lines of work. What could go wrong? It would be a complete free for all.
    04-18-13 04:48 PM
  6. Wongsky's Avatar
    I can't think of a single reason why this scheme would not work. It's completely consistent with human nature and would ensure prosperity for everyone. In fact, it's such a good idea that the scheme should be extended to all lines of work. What could go wrong? It would be a complete free for all.
    Indeed comrade.

    Seems perfectly workable.

    And if you hear the start of those infamous words "Are you now, or have you ever been..." just tell them to speak to the hand because the face just ain't listenin'
    04-18-13 05:18 PM
  7. ThaSwapMeetPimp's Avatar
    Even the 0's and 1's don't really exist as such. 0's and 1's are detected by hardware components that recognize physical on and off states. For example an area on a hard drive my be either magnetized or not. Likewise a particular area on on an optical disk may be highly reflective or not so reflective. Data that is sent over the "aether" are structured somewhat like waves. The areas in a data stream that have low energy are recognized as zeroes and segments with higher energy are considered to be ones.

    I don't think that the OP understands that the medium is merely a mass of matter,in the form of random electrons or atoms, until someone like me imprints a specific pattern on it.. My job is to write the instructions that my app eventually executes on his device. In turn, the instructions that I program into my app could never get executed unless BBRY provides the hardware, an operating system that can "run" my "program", and infrastructure that can transport my "program" from my workstation all the way to his device.
    1 and 0 are equivalent to true and false which is equivalent to off and on or any other duality you choose to have it represent. It doesn't even have to be 1 and 0 we just arbitrarily chose those as representative. I could represent it as a or b its still true or false, of or on, yes or no....or I can represent it with high energy states or low energy states, it's yes or no, true or false, off or on....

    Music is the same. A note is either being played or not, on a grid called a scale, at certain points in time, in patterns that are unique from the mind of the composer....but if I have the time, the instrument, and the skill, I can memorize that, use it whenever I want, preserve its integrity or bastardize it to my liking and no one can stop me, they can just keep me from profiting off it. Or if I have a way to record it, it's mine then, I can store it in as many places as I choose, and as long as I have a way to play that recording its mine. Same concept. If I paid for it once why would I ever pay for it again.

    The universe works this way too. According to quantum theory, all particles in the universe exist as infinite waves spread out throughout every point in the universe and finite particles in specific locations at the same time, in a superposition of 1 and 0, or existent or non-existent, until someone (in this case me, because no one can prove to me their existence without it being through my own observation, through my eyes ears nose mouth or touch, nor can they prove to you, IF you exist, that they exist, because it would all be through YOUR observation) chooses whether it exists or not. So my observation has created patterns I call the universe and everything in it. Should I be able to copyright that and charge you over and over for these patterns? After all, the universe is just a mass of matter, random electrons and atoms, until my observation imprints certain patterns on it. (Obviously, there is either a collective consciousness underlying all this that controls reality, we all live in pocket realities that interact with each other, or I'm really messed up cause if I chose to observe this world and all its problems all on my own there's something wrong with me or this is the only way I could learn whatever it is I'm here to learn; I'm not really claiming primacy over anyone with my statement, just stating the obvious conclusions that one reaches when they study quantum theories, for discussions sake)

    I understand you live in the system and have to do what you feel you need to survive. Doesn't change the way I see things, my perspective is different than yours. I make decisions based on mine.
    blueberrymerry likes this.
    04-18-13 06:13 PM
  8. jpash549's Avatar
    And let's now get to the topics of parallel universes and string theory.
    sad_old_man likes this.
    04-18-13 06:40 PM
  9. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    Where are those developers again?

    <ducks>

    I would like to try two simultaneous models of app distribution - sell the app on BB World and make the source available on a GPL license on Gitorious or Github. Those who want the convenience can pay for the app while those who want to tinker can download the source and compile it themselves. What do you think?
    04-18-13 08:03 PM
  10. FF22's Avatar
    Some people seem to forget that there are some extremely generous and talented people who have another source of income and decide to develop and give away apps for free.

    Then there are those who may need the income their abilities (developing apps) can generate. They want to eat and buy cars or homes or pay rent and need to sell what their talent created.

    Be glad that there are some generous people but don't knock the others who have the talent to create what you want but cannot afford to just give it away.

    Some people sell toothpaste at the store and some manufacture it and both hope to get paid providing something you want or need. But everyone is free to fill their mouths with sand and swoosh it around and spit it out for free.
    jpash549 and BuzzStarField like this.
    04-18-13 08:20 PM
  11. anon(4275744)'s Avatar
    You gotta be kidding me...
    You need to mail OP some BC Bud
    ..
    04-18-13 08:41 PM
  12. ThaSwapMeetPimp's Avatar
    You need to mail OP some BC Bud
    ..
    I don't need no Beasters I can get much better buds here.....since it's been made legal I don't even pay for it people just giving it away, wonderful super crystally, fruity smelling dank. Not to mention the oils, man I had some beautiful golden oil every day for like a month and a half my friend just kept giving me, was awesome....
    04-18-13 10:00 PM
  13. ThaSwapMeetPimp's Avatar
    Some people seem to forget that there are some extremely generous and talented people who have another source of income and decide to develop and give away apps for free.

    Then there are those who may need the income their abilities (developing apps) can generate. They want to eat and buy cars or homes or pay rent and need to sell what their talent created.

    Be glad that there are some generous people but don't knock the others who have the talent to create what you want but cannot afford to just give it away.

    Some people sell toothpaste at the store and some manufacture it and both hope to get paid providing something you want or need. But everyone is free to fill their mouths with sand and swoosh it around and spit it out for free.
    I'm not arguing that in this system people need to make money I have already admitted that. I'm saying that it's my perspective that I shouldn't have to pay for something a second time because I already paid for it once, when the device I have moves into the larger market that includes the BB10 phones. It would also make me more likely to purchase other apps from the developers who make sure I have a working copy of what I have already paid for when I enter the new market.

    The people who choose not to update apps for PB in favor of BB10 versions, that's their choice but I don't have to like it and I can complain about it even if I understand the reasons.

    It started a fun conversation though

    And that sand would probably be better for you than the toothpaste
    Last edited by ThaSwapMeetPimp; 04-18-13 at 10:32 PM.
    04-18-13 10:20 PM
  14. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    I'm not arguing that in this system people need to make money I have already admitted that. I'm saying that it's my perspective that I shouldn't have to pay for something a second time because I already paid for it once, when the device I have moves into the larger market that includes the BB10 phones. It would also make me more likely to purchase other apps from the developers who make sure I have a working copy of what I have already paid for when I enter the new market.

    The people who choose not to update apps for PB in favor of BB10 versions, that's their choice but I don't have to like it and I can complain about it even if I understand the reasons.

    It started a fun conversation though

    And that sand would probably be better for you than the toothpaste
    In my experience, goodwill "earned" in the way that you suggest (i'e. by being a nice guy) does not translate well into increased earnings. Let me give you a real-world example and then ask you to put yourself in my shoes. I am planning to add full-featured satellite tracking to my offering either by creating a new app or by add new functionality into What's up.

    I have already done about 20 hours of research and I think that it would take about a hundred hours to do the construction. FYI "construction" is the phase whee I translate my ideas into a working app by creating/compiling/testing in order to generate a bunch of ones and zeros. In my regular line of business (coding websites) I can make about $100 per hour. Total opportunity cost for diverting my attention to my BB app would therefore be about $1,200.

    Assuming that II can charge $1.00 (and get to keep $.70) for each sale, I would have to sell 1715 licenses to break even on development costs. In order to keep things simple, I will not factor in the cost of fixing inevitable bugs and answering support emails. In addition, I would probably providing frequent "free" upgrades during the first few months after releasing the new tracking functionality. Again, to keep things simple, I will not factor in those costs, nor the costs associated with my habitually underestimating the work involved in developing an app.

    Here are my choices for marketing my new offering::
    1. Add the functionality into my existing app as a free upgrade and hope that goodwill increases sales
    2 Add the functionality into my existing app as a paid upgrade and charge an extra $1.00/ license going forward
    3. Add the functionality as a separate app at $1.00 per license
    4. Off a new app for FREE!. Surely people will love me and will be more likely to purchase a licence for What's up.
    5. Not offer the new tracking feature - stick with the certainty of my "regular" source of income

    Now it's your turn: If you were in my shoes, how would you market the new tracking functionality? If it helps at all, I am leaning toward option 5 because of continued poor sales on both PB and BB10 platforms.
    04-19-13 01:19 PM
  15. sad_old_man's Avatar
    And let's now get to the topics of parallel universes and string theory.
    The thing is... Oooppss please disregard as I am on the wrong thread? Once again sorry.
    Attached Thumbnails Developers forgetting us? Let's forget them-imarobotges.jpg  
    04-19-13 01:59 PM
  16. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    The thing is... Oooppss please disregard as I am on the wrong thread? Once again sorry.
    One of us in on the wrong planet and I'm fairly certain that it's not me.
    sad_old_man likes this.
    04-19-13 02:43 PM
  17. jpash549's Avatar
    Buzz: 120 hours times $100 per hour is $12000. At $0.70 per license sold this is 17,143 sales using the PB calculator.
    04-19-13 03:02 PM
  18. sad_old_man's Avatar
    Even the 0's and 1's don't really exist as such. 0's and 1's are detected by hardware components that recognize physical on and off states. For example an area on a hard drive my be either magnetized or not. Likewise a particular area on on an optical disk may be highly reflective or not so reflective. Data that is sent over the "aether" are structured somewhat like waves. The areas in a data stream that have low energy are recognized as zeroes and segments with higher energy are considered to be ones.

    I don't think that the OP understands that the medium is merely a mass of matter,in the form of random electrons or atoms, until someone like me imprints a specific pattern on it.. My job is to write the instructions that my app eventually executes on his device. In turn, the instructions that I program into my app could never get executed unless BBRY provides the hardware, an operating system that can "run" my "program", and infrastructure that can transport my "program" from my workstation all the way to his device.

    Unfortunately, every time BBRY changes its infrastructure in some way, then I need to provide updates to my app in order to keep it running. What the OP is suggesting is that I should let him decide the value of the work that I do. On the other hand, I think that I should be allowed to make pricing decisions and that the OP can decide whether he wants to pay (or not). Personally, I like the status quo and he will just have to put up with my corrupt capitalistic way of putting food on my table. If he does not want to contribute to my well-being, he is free to boycott me. I don't mind at all.
    I give up now completely. The only reason decimal numbers exist is because we stupid humans normally have ten digits on our hands and it makes it easier for us to count. The true form of numerics is Hex but we find that too hard and most people don't understand it anyway.

    Very few 'developers' these days can actually write a program without the aid of a 'high level' programming language, Basic, Pascal, Fortran pick whatever language you prefer they are all in existence to make humans lives (developers) easy. Everything and I repeat everything is compiled down to 0s and 1s (on and off to you) because it's the only way electronic components can be manipulated in the way we require as programmers. (sorry about that but I thought I would introduce the common man's term for the posh word developers)

    Programming an entire suite of software in binary can be done, has been done and before the younger generation of 'developers' were born was the only way to do it. It is though very time consuming and expensive requiring a large number of intelligent software coders therefore is not done commercially any longer.

    The point still remains though that I cannot understand any 'developer', programmer, coder or basic hack stating that 0s and 1s don't actually exist unless it's in the "aether"?

    Encyclopdia Britannica

    ether,*also spelled aether, also called luminiferous ether,* in physics, a theoretical, universal substance believed during the 19th century to act as the medium for transmission of electromagnetic waves (e.g., light and X rays) much as sound waves are transmitted by elastic media such as air. The ether was assumed to be weightless, transparent, frictionless, undetectable chemically or physically, and literally permeating all matter and space. The theory met with increasing difficulties as the nature of light and the structure of matter became better understood; it was seriously weakened (1881) by the Michelson-Morley experiment, which was designed specifically to detect the motion of the Earth through the ether and which showed that there was no such effect.

    With the formulation of the special theory of relativity by Albert Einstein in 1905 and its acceptance by scientists generally, the ether hypothesis was abandoned as being unnecessary in terms of Einstein’s assumption that the speed of light, or any electromagnetic wave, is a universal constant.
    04-19-13 03:47 PM
  19. Wongsky's Avatar
    Very few 'developers' these days can actually write a program without the aid of a 'high level' programming language, Basic, Pascal, Fortran pick whatever language you prefer they are all in existence to make humans lives (developers) easy.
    Or save time and money for the big boys...

    Everything and I repeat everything is compiled down to 0s and 1s (on and off to you) because it's the only way electronic components can be manipulated in the way we require as programmers. (sorry about that but I thought I would introduce the common man's term for the posh word developers)
    If you think the only reason for high-level languages is purely making things easier for programmers, I have a bridge you may be interested in buying - see what I did there?

    Development time, training, mistakes, cross-platform, closer actual link to what the designers are asking for... COBOL didn't become so prevalent in it's time merely because it was easier on the programmers than anything used before.

    Programming an entire suite of software in binary can be done, has been done and before the younger generation of 'developers' were born was the only way to do it. It is though very time consuming and expensive requiring a large number of intelligent software coders therefore is not done commercially any longer.
    There - you got there in the end all by yourself "very time consuming and expensive" - it's not just about making somebody's job easy, it's about saving time and money, and something more suitable to what's actually being done.

    The point still remains though that I cannot understand any 'developer', programmer, coder or basic hack stating that 0s and 1s don't actually exist unless it's in the "aether"?
    Depends, really, doesn't it. Java and JIT. Interpreted languages. 4GLs. All the same, it's not like you to get in petty squabbles about pedantics, or is it? (cue spooky music)

    And there's no talk of booze in this post, or pictures of kittens - something of a dichotomy, isn't it? Deadly serious, or rebel without a pause? Something is not like all the others...
    04-19-13 04:05 PM
  20. sad_old_man's Avatar
    It's all still simple whatever big words you wish to impress yourself with, 0s and 1s. If you are such a wonderful magician that you can get a processor to understand anything but 0s and 1s whichever high level developers (I hate that term) language you wish to quote after googling it, then we should not be privileged enough to be able to enjoy (metaphorical) your wisdom on this forum. You would be amongst the gods with the likes of Einstein or somewhere in the 'Aether' with the dysfunctional compass!
    04-19-13 04:17 PM
  21. Wongsky's Avatar
    It's all still simple whatever big words you wish to impress yourself with, 0s and 1s. If you are such a wonderful magician that you can get a processor to understand anything but 0s and 1s whichever high level developers (I hate that term) language you wish to quote after googling it, then we should not be privileged enough to be able to enjoy (metaphorical) your wisdom on this forum. You would be amongst the gods with the likes of Einstein or somewhere in the 'Aether' with the dysfunctional compass!
    Point being developers, these days, rarely have to think in such terms, some languages only produce true architecture executable binaries at runtime.

    As to running off to google I have no need, I've programmed in all the type of languages being discussed. Anyway, methinks it's you who's playing to the gallery and the search engines.

    Still no booze or kittens in your reply - 'sup with that? People get used to a certain degree of frivolity? Surely you're having fun?
    04-19-13 04:35 PM
  22. sad_old_man's Avatar
    Point being developers, these days, rarely have to think in such terms, some languages only produce true architecture executable binaries at runtime.

    As to running off to google I have no need, I've programmed in all the type of languages being discussed. Anyway, methinks it's you who's playing to the gallery and the search engines.

    Still no booze or kittens in your reply - 'sup with that? People get used to a certain degree of frivolity? Surely you're having fun?
    And so have I but long before you. I can also code in binary, can you?
    04-19-13 04:44 PM
  23. sad_old_man's Avatar
    Ooopppss didn't think so! Therefore you have to revert to sly innuendo comments about booze! How sad you are!
    04-19-13 04:46 PM
  24. Produktyf's Avatar
    Wow what a passionate and good discussion.

    As soon as BBRY makes Cascades run on PlayBook give us few days and all our apps will be running on PlayBook. It's just not feasible to do parallel development for each app even though playbook sales as still big chunk (at least for us).

    Posted via CB10
    04-19-13 04:51 PM
  25. sad_old_man's Avatar
    Wow what a passionate and good discussion.

    As soon as BBRY makes Cascades run on PlayBook give us few days and all our apps will be running on PlayBook. It's just not feasible to do parallel development for each app even though playbook sales as still big chunk (at least for us).

    Posted via CB10
    I respect your views and your comment. It is far easier for large software companies to port their applications across onto different platforms than it is for you to do so. But then again you are a programmer and not a developer. There is a difference!
    04-19-13 04:57 PM
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