[Hammered Pizza]

First off, this isn't for me... it's for my Mother.

A bit of background, she's never owned a smartphone before, but is quite at home with feature phones and their OS's (Bada, S40). Also fine to operate a Windows 7 PC. So year, we're not talking complete tech incompetence here, but not tech mastery either. She has had a tablet before - a rather underwhelming Arnova with Android 2.3, but that broke, got the money back, and now there's money to spend on a new tab.

But that's where I get stuck. Do I go for the Kindle Fire, or the PlayBook? I'm pretty sure I know which answer you'll give, but give me reasons why. She has a LoveFilm subscription and uses iPlayer / 4oD and other catch-up TV services a fair bit, and would mainly use it for browsing. Not into social networking - at all - and has never owned a BlackBerry in her life. With this in mind, some other questions - how's battery life for streaming TV (I know figures are thrown around, but give me the real world usage). Any problems related to plugging it into a TV with an HDMI cable? Is there DLNA? What major advantages does it have over the Kindle Fire, and are there any major holes that I really need to know about?

And if you think the Kindle Fire is a better fit, be honest. I think the PlayBook probably has the edge, but the benefit of the camera is pointless, as are large storage options. Is the lack of iPlayer, Lovefilm and other apps a problem that halts your enjoyment at all, or is Adobe Flash just fine? Is it easy to get to a level of proficiency with the tablet - I realise the Kindle Fire is Android, so there's familiarity there.

So yeah, there it is. Fire away!

[Broxster]

Don't know anything about the kindle.......for me the playbook is great for browsing,email works ok, the hdmi to tv works fine,all the UK catch up tv channels work ,good for internet radio.speakers are pretty good,great quality screen,approx 8 hours battery life ,camera is good in bright conditions (no flash) and a great price for a 64gb here in the UK @�129......i was that pleased with my first playbook i bought another 3 days later.

The only weak part is the easily breakable micro usb/charging socket if the charger plug is forced in upside down....i would highly recommend the charging base that uses the pins on the bottom of the playbook to save wear and tear on the rather fragile micro usb socket....the base is approx �25 here in the UK from Amazon....do not buy the cheap copy bases that still use the micro usb and not the 3 charging pin connection.Apart from that its pretty good......apps selection is a bit crap but i'm not really into all that stuff (99% of them are bloody useless anyway...lol)

[Hammered Pizza]

Sounds good. Is browsing snappier with 2.0? On initial reviews it seemed to lag a bit, though that may have been because of JavaScript being enabled as default.

Is there DLNA (or something similar)? I don't think the Kindle Fire has it, but if the PlayBook does, it's a huge plus point.

[BB_Bmore]

I'd go with PlayBook simply because it's getting BlackBerry10. Think about it. You get a new BlackBerry10 device, 64 gigs for under 200$ Yes dlna will be available with BlackBerry10. The current os on Playbook does not support it.

[skyrocket9]

Sounds good. Is browsing snappier with 2.0? On initial reviews it seemed to lag a bit, though that may have been because of JavaScript being enabled as default.

Is there DLNA (or something similar)? I don't think the Kindle Fire has it, but if the PlayBook does, it's a huge plus point.

The device can every laggy especially if you run more than one application. It has a outdated processor and insufficient ram. I wouldn't get one right now. For 349 you can get an iPad mini or even buy the new playbook it's got improved hardware.

[Hammered Pizza]

I'd go with PlayBook simply because it's getting BlackBerry10. Think about it. You get a new BlackBerry10 device, 64 gigs for under 200$ Yes dlna will be available with BlackBerry10. The current os on Playbook does not support it.

Is BB10 confirmed for the PlayBook then? I don't mind that much about updates - it's a budget device that's getting on for 2 years old - and I wouldn't be getting any updates on the Kindle Fire either (I can't be tasked with routing the thing).

The device can every laggy especially if you run more than one application. It has a outdated processor and insufficient ram. I wouldn't get one right now. For 349 you can get an iPad mini or even buy the new playbook it's got improved hardware.

I realise there are more competent tablets out there - the Nexus 7 included - but the budget is quite low on this one. The PlayBook is selling for under �110 here, I don't want to spend more than double that on an iPad Mini.

[Broxster]

Browsing is pretty instant for me.....more than happy with it ,tbh i barely use my pc now.....the only downside is i'm buying alot more crap i don't need of ebay and amazon...lol

For the price at the moment and build quality the PB is hard to beat......they were easily 3 times todays price if not more when first released.A dozen of my friends and workmates have bought one after seeing mine.....they were all pretty impressed with the playbook.Just beware of Currys giving you a returned unit.....theres been a few people on here suspect they were given a returned unit......the boxes do not come with seals but the stuff in the box are in sealed black boxes,charger etc.....and the playbook should have its screen protector in place.....just look out for excess finger prints on the screen if its been used,if so ask for another unit.

[Hammered Pizza]

Browsing is pretty instant for me.....more than happy with it ,tbh i barely use my pc now.....the only downside is i'm buying alot more crap i don't need of ebay and amazon...lol

For the price at the moment and build quality the PB is hard to beat......they were easily 3 times todays price if not more when first released.

Is the build solid on them then? No common faults with the hardware?

And yeah, but they were a bit steep at launch - no-one was going to pay �399 for a 7" 16GB, or �150 extra for 64 GB.

[Hammered Pizza]

Coming here and asking someone to convince you to do something is like going into a room full of mentally ill people and asking them to convince you that you aren't mentally ill. This is crackberry. We are biased. No one is going to tell you anything different.

I realise that and addressed it in my original post. Hence, reasons. People who are enthusiastic are more likely to point out some good things that I've missed - or give workarounds for problems faced.

[Broxster]

Coming here and asking someone to convince you to do something is like going into a room full of mentally ill people and asking them to convince you that you aren't mentally ill. This is crackberry. We are biased. No one is going to tell you anything different.

If it was crap i would say it was crap....lol.....i mentioned the usb being a weak point but tbh if you are on a budget (around the �100 mark)theres only the playbook or a cheap chinese no name tablet.....the only exception is the budget Kindle and theres one of the Samsungs around �149 at the moment.

[Jem_too]

I'm 63 years old, run a Toshiba Windows 7 laptop,Blackberry 9810 and a 64G Playbook. So like your mother I'm competent in the technical world but by no means a technical whiz. Every time I read "you just sideload something" I just cringe and think "sure that's easy for you to say For me the Playbook had a small learning curve but is now my major access to the world. The browser is fine and other than checkerboarding at times is fast enough for my needs. What i like is that the Playbook just seems to offer me more flexibility and the future seems so positive. I'm excited about what BB10 is promising. My suggestion - get her the future and of the two the Playbook just seems brighter.

[skyrocket9]

Playbook will be extremely out dated once bb10 comes out, I would only buy it if price is your only consideration.

Cons
Sub par hardware
Lack of apps as usual
Variety of lag due to low ram
Browser is very checkered at times
Most people break the charger port

Pro
Great design
Good build quality
Cheap, you get Alot for a hundred bucks
Nice user interface
Decent battery life
Very portable
Blackberry phone bridge
And fun to use

[beman39]

The device can every laggy especially if you run more than one application. It has a outdated processor and insufficient ram. I wouldn't get one right now. For 349 you can get an iPad mini or even buy the new playbook it's got improved hardware.

Playbook will be extremely out dated once bb10 comes out, I would only buy it if price is your only consideration.

Cons
Sub par hardware
Lack of apps as usual
Variety of lag due to low ram
Browser is very checkered at times
Most people break the charger port

Pro
Great design
Good build quality
Cheap, you get Alot for a hundred bucks
Nice user interface
Decent battery life
Very portable
Blackberry phone bridge
And fun to use

dude all the points you point out so eloquently is total hogwash! I don't know whats going on with your playbook but I know mine and others is not slow at all and handles multiple running apps easily! also the hardware is top notch and I don't know why you think it isn't! alot of people have dropped thier device and one person even ran over it and it still worked flawlessly...perhaps you should look into maybe replacing your device? and as for the checker boarding I find it only happens with websites that are very power hungry with all the bells and whistles running on the website like flash, auto saving feature and what other crap they got running in the backgroud! cripe some websites make my laptop checkerboard! LOL and as for the usb port OBVIOUSLY it's user error and if you cant see if your placing the connector properly of course its gonna break with any device! and people should be a little more diligent on how they plug in the usb! I almost broke my wireless headphones one time cuzz I almost connected it wrong...it isn't logitechs fault, it's mine!

[bitbrains]

Any tablet that cannot get those Apps working, then don't buy it. Because they don't meet user's basic requirements.
BTW, at 150$ for 32GB Playbook, BB pays money to retailers for selling them.

[Hammered Pizza]

Used one in a store, doesn't seem laggy... does it get worse over time with more apps installed?

[Angus_CB]

I don't care which one you buy. I have no RIM stock.

My wife and I each have a 16GB Playbook. My choice was based on price and the ability to bridge through our Blackberry phones.
I use a Blackberry because my employer supplies it. My wife has one because I do, which allows us to use PIN messaging.
That being said, I have no regrets and look forward to the BB10 OS on both devices.

Addressing some of the Cons posted above;
There is a lack of apps compared to Android tablets but nothing that should effect your Mother's use of the tablet. I have no experience with the Kindle Fire but I understand that it is somewhat limited to Amazon when it comes to purchasing apps. I assume that can be circumvented though.
Most people do not break the charging port. Considering it is the same micro USB port used on nearly all modern Smart Phones, there would be a a lot of people running around with a dead device if that were true.

The Playbook does not support DLNA. It has been coming soon for close to two years now. There, however, are several alternatives that will allow the use of media stored on shared DLNA server drives.
HDMI out works very well and is probably the biggest advantage over the Kindle for your situation.

[kbz1960]

The device can every laggy especially if you run more than one application. It has a outdated processor and insufficient ram. I wouldn't get one right now. For 349 you can get an iPad mini or even buy the new playbook it's got improved hardware.

Playbook will be extremely out dated once bb10 comes out, I would only buy it if price is your only consideration.

Cons
Sub par hardware
Lack of apps as usual
Variety of lag due to low ram
Browser is very checkered at times
Most people break the charger port

Pro
Great design
Good build quality
Cheap, you get Alot for a hundred bucks
Nice user interface
Decent battery life
Very portable
Blackberry phone bridge
And fun to use

Wow the hardware isn't old and outdated unless you have to have the newest thing out and then you'll never buy anything or will constantly be buying something new. Yes there are little nags that will be fixed when BB10 comes to it which will make it like a new device.

[ubeda92]

Add inthemix9 to the idiots list.

Twice, inthemix9 criticizes the PB's RAM, calling it "insufficient." inthemix9 recommends the purchase of the much more expensive ipad mini.

Guess what. The 16GB ipad mini reportedly has 512 megs of RAM. None of the PBs have less than 1 GB of RAM--Twice the amount of RAM of the 16 GB ipad mini.

inthemix9 states that the PBs will perform poorly with the BB10.

How does he know? Has he tested the final version of BB10 on a PB. Or did he pull that statement out of his ?

inthemix9 states that the PB is laggy when more than one app is open.

Perhaps inthemix9 would like to tell us which apps he has run simultaneously on a PB, and which OS version that PB had, so that we can determine if we share his experience. Otherwise, this statement is more nonsense.

I could go on and on regarding the drivel contained in inthemix9's posts, but I've already wasted too much time on that matter.

[bay1902]

Convince you..i've had all 3 variants of tabs made - android, ipad and playbook. Playbook's performance and use smashes the others hand down.

Multi-tasking is the best, interface is nothing but intuitive and so easy to use, app availability- ok not as much as on android or ios, but not so much crap either! Android support is ok but generally, with the fact you can sideload kindle, etc - you cannot go wrong. Flash / streaming is ace, memory use is better than on android (with no major multi-lag system). For the money I can't see you going wrong & BB10 promises new beauty to this bad boy.

[Hammered Pizza]

In terms of apps, are there enough good apps that the important bases are covered? By this I mean news sites, well-known games (not immersive, high-graphics affairs - Angry Birds, Cut the Rope etc.).

[skyrocket9]

In terms of apps, are there enough good apps that the important bases are covered? By this I mean news sites, well-known games (not immersive, high-graphics affairs - Angry Birds, Cut the Rope etc.).

No apps are lacking

[itmccb]

The PlayBook would work well enough for browsing, but if she's any interest in streaming media, then the Kindle, Nook, or Nexus would be better choices. And even though you say she'll only/mostly use if for X task, the more the device can do and the more apps available, the greater the likelihood that she'll stumble upon something else that she'd enjoy doing with it.

[skyrocket9]

Add inthemix9 to the idiots list.

Twice, inthemix9 criticizes the PB's RAM, calling it "insufficient." inthemix9 recommends the purchase of the much more expensive ipad mini.

Guess what. The 16GB ipad mini reportedly has 512 megs of RAM. None of the PBs have less than 1 GB of RAM--Twice the amount of RAM of the 16 GB ipad mini.

inthemix9 states that the PBs will perform poorly with the BB10.

How does he know? Has he tested the final version of BB10 on a PB. Or did he pull that statement out of his ?

inthemix9 states that the PB is laggy when more than one app is open.

Perhaps inthemix9 would like to tell us which apps he has run simultaneously on a PB, and which OS version that PB had, so that we can determine if we share his experience. Otherwise, this statement is more nonsense.

I could go on and on regarding the drivel contained in inthemix9's posts, but I've already wasted too much time on that matter.

No you couldn't go on, infact you just copied and pasted my claim and added -NOT TRUE.

It's common sense that bb10 is going to be hardware dependant, so I'm not even going to discuss that.

IPad minis amount of ram is unknown I'd like a reference source that says it has 512mb please. Its also not how much ram you have it's what the Os does with it.

That being said, open up several browser pages then go play Asphalt 7. LAGGG.

Sorry for not providing you a biased review, I guess I should tell you it's flawless and you would not have any issues.

[ubeda92]

"Sorry for not providing you a biased review, I guess I should tell you it's flawless and you would not have any issues."

I've never asserted that the PB is flawless. When I reviewed it on Amazon's site, I gave the PB 4 stars, not 5, and would have given the PB 3 1/2 stars if that option was available.

Some of the drawbacks of the PB:

Native email system, that severely limits the number of messages one can store in that system;

Native files/folder organizer, which is very limited;

Native Adobe Reader, which is very limited;

Docs2Go, which is also very limited.

I've installed apps--some at no cost to me--to address some of the shortcomings listed above. However, I believe that a well designed/executed tablet shouldn't have had those shortcomings, in the first place.

That said, many of your above statements are nonsensical.

Btw, have you used an ipad mini to "open up several browser pages then . . . play[ed] Asphalt 7." How was that experience compared to a similar experiment with the PB? Of course, to ensure a comparable experiment, one would have to turn off the mobile flash in the PB's native browser due to the fact that the ipad mini doesn't have mobile flash in its native configuration.

Numerous reviews have stated that the ipad mini (at least the 16 GB version) has 512 MB of RAM. Here's a link to one such review:

Teardown Confirms iPad mini Has 512MB of RAM | iPad Insight

Feel free to show me where Apple maintains otherwise.

You state: "Its also not how much ram you have it's what the Os does with it."

To some extent that's true. That said, provide a scientifically valid study that posits that the ipad mini's OS uses RAM at least twice as efficiently as does the PB's OS.

I could go on an on . . . .

[Angus_CB]

No apps are lacking

inthemix9 is correct. No apps are lacking.
The best way to find out what apps are available is to check out Blackberry App World. Use the Playbook filter.