[saalnaz]

but it mentions PB..

at the end it says most developers may decide to wait to develop for QNX..

maybe it will play better for PB overall as it is already on QNX but not the phones and the new OS7??!!

RIM Loses Miami Dolphins Fans as Software Developers Defecting to IPhone - Bloomberg

but the article is correct in terms of the various physical models which affect the app design...

[davestephens21]

unfortunately this article is not much of a surprise. RIM has been sticking band-aids on their problems for a long time, one of them being an abundance of devices each with differences that could make it difficult for devs. i never had a big problem with bb app selection but maybe i (and those like me) are the problem, we do not use a ton of apps and so developers do not feel the need to...well develop

[Frank Castle]

A trend or small developers looking for some free marketing at RIM's expense?

RIM has 10 years of Blackberry models on the market, anytime we build a new App we cut off and make it for a OS going forward vs. trying to support legacy devices. The browser and screen resolution is just not enough for any modern App.

Now yes it would be nice if RIM could consolidate their hardware and have maybe 3 models. A consistent OS standard for development would be nice too. But some of the comments from the developers were a little biased.

Android is now facing the same issues. They have new screen resolutions, touch and keypad models. There is a new Android OS and hardware every couple months it seems. Let's see how fragmented that is in 5 years let alone 10 and talk about supporting legacy models / OS.

Apple is not one model, one button. Apple just takes the old model / OS and takes it out behind the woodshed. They kill the older model and force users to upgrade to get the latest features in the OS. It was nice to see iOS 5 extend to the 3GS. They also have iPad in the mix so you can't expect to cookie cut your development onto every device.

I believe the best results always come from coding to the metal like the video game developers do. Unfortunately RIM's tools have not been the easist to use.

The other side of this is a very large portion of Blackberry users are corporate liable and they tend to not have the ability or interest to install and use Apps. A large portion of Blackberry owners are content with the core functionality and thats it. (email, PIM, BBM, phone).

RIM is making good with QNX and seem to have listened to what they need to make development easier.

[mjs416]

Seesmic Inc., a developer of social-media applications, and Mobile Roadie LLC, which makes apps for fans of the Miami Dolphins and country singer Taylor Swift, have decided to stop making products for RIM

Doesnt seem like much of a loss if you ask me.

[lnichols]

OS7 will be a poorly developed for platform because everyone knows that QNX will be coming out next. RIM should get the BB app player out for Playbook so that the OS7 developers would have another platform to help things out. That said, I don't have many apps on my BB anyway, so as long as I can get Poynt, Google Maps, Facebook, an improved BB Bridge and a great web browser on my OS7 device I'll be happy.

[exzibit3]

The best apps that I cannot do without have been created by RIM. Blackberry Protect, Blackberry Travel, Blackberry Bridge. Absolutely essential.
I have got an Android system and an iPad and iPod. There's not many apps that I would say I really miss on the Playbook, Swype (not Skype) would be superb to use on the PB for typing.
The PB is a great size for games though and you can see the potential with the processor and graphics capability with Need For Speed. Square Enix games and others like Infinity Blade would be great.
Ultimately, I think it's the geek in all of us that wants to boast, "my device can do that".

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[raremage]

The other side of this is a very large portion of Blackberry users are corporate liable and they tend to not have the ability or interest to install and use Apps. A large portion of Blackberry owners are content with the core functionality and thats it. (email, PIM, BBM, phone).

While this is the way it has always been in the past, surely you recognize that the world is shifting. Apps are now an accepted fact of life in many corporate environments, and that trend seems unlikely to change back to the other direction.

RIM needs to recognize that shift and account for it.

On the other hand, I agree with the sentiments of others on this thread: one developer is not a trend. One small developer is even less of a trend.

[jnko]

So the PB won't have 100k fart/burp/gun/beer/sex position apps. The only thing we need is games. Everything else can come from RIM and the browser.

[Economist101]

Android is now facing the same issues. They have new screen resolutions, touch and keypad models. There is a new Android OS and hardware every couple months it seems. Let's see how fragmented that is in 5 years let alone 10 and talk about supporting legacy models / OS.

True. But Android brings traffic that warrants the effort to develop for it. RIM's problem isn't merely development; it's the demand the typical app sees.

Apple is not one model, one button. Apple just takes the old model / OS and takes it out behind the woodshed. They kill the older model and force users to upgrade to get the latest features in the OS. It was nice to see iOS 5 extend to the 3GS. They also have iPad in the mix so you can't expect to cookie cut your development onto every device.

Each iphone gets supported for at least the next two major OS upgrades. The firs iPhone was carried through iOS 3, the 3G was carried through iOS 4, and the 3GS will be on board through iOS 5. As for "forcing" users to upgrade to "get the latest features," previous users do gain the software features that their devices can handle, and iOS updates coming for 2 full years after purchase for the current flagship model is among the fairest software upgrade deals out there.

As for iPad development, your facts are a little off. Generally, you don't see precisely the same interface on iPad apps as you do iPhone apps, but the UI navigation (touchscreen + one button) is consistent throughout, so it's not like one device is a touchscreen with a home button while the next device is touchscreen only. The screen size is different (obviously) and the UIG is a little different, but the two are close enough that developers generally do not consider the differences to be problematic.

RIM is making good with QNX and seem to have listened to what they need to make development easier.

Except, by your argument above, RIM will be "forcing" every single BB phone user to upgrade to "get the latest features," since the QNX OS will not be compatible with any of the 200+ million BB phones that will have been sold by the time QNX on phones launches.

[bb-bandit]

but it mentions PB..

at the end it says most developers may decide to wait to develop for QNX..

maybe it will play better for PB overall as it is already on QNX but not the phones and the new OS7??!!

RIM Loses Miami Dolphins Fans as Software Developers Defecting to IPhone - Bloomberg

but the article is correct in terms of the various physical models which affect the app design...

Every intelligent person/company is jumping off the RIM ship. The RIM brand has been tainted by the Storm, the horrific launch of the PB and then the delay of the Bold. RIM will be acquired in the near future after another couple of quarters of disappointing sales. Very sad to see this happen to a company that had such loyal customers for years. Now we just see those customers that are like those people in a bad marriage...they stick it out even though the writing is on the wall. "things will get better", they say to themselves.

[bb-bandit]

So the PB won't have 100k fart/burp/gun/beer/sex position apps. The only thing we need is games. Everything else can come from RIM and the browser.

RIM can survive in the corporate space without a robust app catalogue, but it will experience further erosion in the consumer space, which will result in further declines in sales and earnings, which will in turn result in a continued decline in shareholder value. Takeover is imminent.

[Scott8586]

You've gotten pretty OT, but I'll just throw out:

You do realize RIM continues to sell *more* devices each quarter, not less. Right?
Yes, they're not meeting market expectations, yes, they are loosing market share, but no they're not going down the drain just yet.

The report of RIM's death is greatly exaggerated.

[bb-bandit]

You've gotten pretty OT, but I'll just throw out:

You do realize RIM continues to sell *more* devices each quarter, not less. Right?
Yes, they're not meeting market expectations, yes, they are loosing market share, but no they're not going down the drain just yet.

The report of RIM's death is greatly exaggerated.

RIM's growth on a relative basis is attrocious. They had anemic growth relative to the growth projections anticipated for the segment in which they compete and relative to its peer group. RIM sales figures will be extremely disappointing at year-end, which will result in further decline in its shareprice. You can take that to the bank. There is nothing to suggest that RIM will experience robust sales in the months to come.

[s219]

The article gives some examples of developers which may not be too interesting or relevant to us here, but it is an accurate sign of a larger ongoing trend. I know many mobile developers who are either moving away from RIM all together, or scaling back in favor of iOS or Android. The problem I have seen over the years is that RIM's developer support stinks. They have multiple SDKs and development environments, many which do not have proper overlap. And their website is a mess. If that wasn't obvious ahead of time, anybody who develops for iOS/Android will really notice a contrast, whether they are new to RIM or new to the other platforms. RIM's developer offerings are just woefully fragmented and outclassed by iOS and Android right now. In a booming software market where developers can write their own tickets and be choosy about what they work on, it's no wonder they are choosing the platforms that are easier and more fun to work with.

[Foreverup]

Every intelligent person/company is jumping off the RIM ship. The RIM brand has been tainted by the Storm, the horrific launch of the PB and then the delay of the Bold. RIM will be acquired in the near future after another couple of quarters of disappointing sales. Very sad to see this happen to a company that had such loyal customers for years. Now we just see those customers that are like those people in a bad marriage...they stick it out even though the writing is on the wall. "things will get better", they say to themselves.

Does that mean your are quitting the crackberry forums?

[blackmoe]

So the PB won't have 100k fart/burp/gun/beer/sex position apps. The only thing we need is games. Everything else can come from RIM and the browser.

That is just your opinion. Read the comments in the Drop And Give Me Twenty posts and see what others feel are essential apps. And if you want my opinion I couldn't care less if another game was ever developed.

[i7guy]

Every intelligent person/company is jumping off the RIM ship. The RIM brand has been tainted by the Storm, the horrific launch of the PB and then the delay of the Bold. RIM will be acquired in the near future after another couple of quarters of disappointing sales. Very sad to see this happen to a company that had such loyal customers for years. Now we just see those customers that are like those people in a bad marriage...they stick it out even though the writing is on the wall. "things will get better", they say to themselves.

That means there is an opportunity/gold mine for someone or someones who understands the market for real business oriented apps.

[bb-bandit]

That means there is an opportunity/gold mine for someone or someones who understands the market for real business oriented apps.

It means RIMM's earnings will continue to slide downward. That can't be debated. RIMM's shareprice will fall further as a consequence, which will mean RIMM will be ripe for a takeover bid. The windfall will be for the company that buys RIMM while she's beaten down and tatered.

[s219]

That means there is an opportunity/gold mine for someone or someones who understands the market for real business oriented apps.

Those developers are already waist deep into iOS right now -- look at the business apps available for iPad. It's a huge market. There would have to be some pretty awesome incentives to pull those developers away from iOS. They haven't even started targeting Android tablets yet!

[FF22]

It means RIMM's earnings will continue to slide downward. That can't be debated. RIMM's shareprice will fall further as a consequence, which will mean RIMM will be ripe for a takeover bid. The windfall will be for the company that buys RIMM while she's beaten down and tatered.

I'm not that well-versed on stocks and values and earnings. But what is the windfall for the acquiring company if your views of rim and its products are true? What is being acquired - a failing company with more and more useless products,os's, phones, tablets?

While I have been critical of the pb's faults, I don't see it as a complete dud. It has weaknesses but also strengths. But I also don't go along with all the pollyanna's - rim needs to address stuff faster and not "it is coming" sometime soon to a theater near you...

I gather they have the resouces, a lot of money. I hope they can find the programmers they need and spend some of that money on fixing the shortcomings.

[ScottsdaleHokie]

RIM can survive in the corporate space without a robust app catalogue, but it will experience further erosion in the consumer space, which will result in further declines in sales and earnings, which will in turn result in a continued decline in shareholder value. Takeover is imminent.

They are losing in the corporate space as well.

Pretty much no one at my company replaces their BB work phone with another one. They all go with Android or iPhone.

[louzer]

There are currently 3 development platforms for the Playbook:

1. Adobe Air SDK
2. Webworks SDK
3. Native SDK

There is a huge number of Actionscript (Flash) developers out there. A few thousand of them now have free Playbooks based on the pre-launch promotion. Activity in the development forums has died down a bit since the apps were submitted, approved, and the free devices were shipped. While it might appear that RIM gave away free devices for some crappy little flash apps, they created an awareness in the minds of many developers.

During the rush to the finish line, there were many developers asking questions about how to port their existing Android, iOS, and even WebOS apps to the QNX framework. The answers to these questions turned out to be pretty simple.

Adobe was offering 60-day trials of their Flash Builder 4.1 development tool during this promotion and had a pre-release release candidate for 4.5 ("Burrito") that RIM was suggesting as a development platform. The promotion created an awareness of the flexibility of the QNX framework and the use of Adobe Air along with the TabletOS-specific extensions. It also created a new crop of Flash Builder developers. These developers were seeing how easy it is to create a Playbook app for the promotion, and then turn right around, make a few subtle changes to the code, and, voila, the same app is now an Android app.

Adobe, just this past week, released a 4.5.1 upgrade to their Flash Builder tool. The major enhancements to this tool include the ability to preview your app in any existing (or newly defined) sized form factor from phones through tablets. It also includes the ability to write once and deploy to many/any platform (including TabletOS, Android, as well as iOS).

Granted, the 'super apps' which need to hook directly into a device's native SDK, will require the native SDK. But this is true of both iOS and Android. Developers of these apps will essentially need to make 3 versions of these types of apps. Fortunately, RIM develops many of these 'super apps' themselves and does not rely on 3rd parties for these.

For the basic apps that most people are looking for, Adobe Air applications suffice. Just look at the quality of the Air-based Facebook app that's now included with the Playbook. For these apps, it cannot be said that developers now need to choose a platform on which to deploy their apps. They simply need to code in a modular manner and alter only the UI from a screen size perspective. Flash Builder 4.5 even handles the mapping of functionality like exiting an app by abstracting it on a per-device basis. In other words, If you code app exit logic, when you deploy for iOS, it will map to the little button, but on the Playbook it will map to swipe events.

In my opinion, one of the smartest moves by RIM with regard to the Playbook was the decision to support Adobe Air apps. It means that they can focus on the development of super apps themselves while knowing that someone developing an Android app with Flash Builder 4.5.1 can increase their exposure by simply deploying their app to Playbook and iOS platforms.

The only wrinkle in the ointment is their decision to release a new line of phones with OS7. I understand that it will be easier (and quicker) to release the new hardware with an update to an existing OS. This will mean that the new phones will, at best, run existing apps written for (perhaps) os 5+. While it's known that os7 is the end of the line for the 'traditional' OS, RIM can't count on people investing time in new apps for a retired OS.

If, however, RIM would make a commitment that the new beefed-up phones will also support QNX when it's ready, then people might be willing to jump in for the long haul as opposed to purchasing a 'gap' device. It will also mean that developers using Adobe Air will have a new market for their apps once QNX appears on these phones by simply choosing a new deploy option.

If apps are what it takes in the smartphone/table space right now, then RIM owes a great big thank you to Adobe. I continue to work on apps for the Playbook knowing that my efforts will not be fruitless since the same apps can be deployed to multiple platforms easily now.

[bb-bandit]

They are losing in the corporate space as well.

Pretty much no one at my company replaces their BB work phone with another one. They all go with Android or iPhone.

Same here...I work at very large global company.

[blackjack93117]

Every intelligent person/company is jumping off the RIM ship. The RIM brand has been tainted by the Storm, the horrific launch of the PB and then the delay of the Bold. RIM will be acquired in the near future after another couple of quarters of disappointing sales. Very sad to see this happen to a company that had such loyal customers for years. Now we just see those customers that are like those people in a bad marriage...they stick it out even though the writing is on the wall. "things will get better", they say to themselves.

RIM can survive in the corporate space without a robust app catalogue, but it will experience further erosion in the consumer space, which will result in further declines in sales and earnings, which will in turn result in a continued decline in shareholder value. Takeover is imminent.

RIM's growth on a relative basis is attrocious. They had anemic growth relative to the growth projections anticipated for the segment in which they compete and relative to its peer group. RIM sales figures will be extremely disappointing at year-end, which will result in further decline in its shareprice. You can take that to the bank. There is nothing to suggest that RIM will experience robust sales in the months to come.

Could this possibly be the rantings of a Storm purchaser with an axe to grind? Could every single post he has made be the same? Considering the new troll policy, why hasn't this troll been banned yet? He offers nothing but continuous RIM bashing and RIM demise hopefulness. Is this a forum participant or a Storm purchaser with revenge as an agenda? You decide (moderator?) .

[mjs416]

RIM's growth on a relative basis is attrocious. They had anemic growth relative to the growth projections anticipated for the segment in which they compete and relative to its peer group.

It could be because they havent released a new phone in a year.

There is nothing to suggest that RIM will experience robust sales in the months to come.

You dont think RIM will see lots of sales when the new phones come out?