08-29-13 10:19 AM
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  1. mnhockeycoach99's Avatar
    Sounds like you're giving legal advice.

    In what jurisdiction(s) have you established competence in the areas of corporate or similar fraud, potential corporate or similar fraud, and the remedies (including monetary damages) available to plaintiffs who can prove injury?

    My guess is that the answer to the jurisdictions questions is ZERO.

    If that is the case, the value of your advice to "move on" merits another ZERO.
    LMAO....you sound like a lawyer. If so, I'm sorry.. Telling someone to "move on" isn't legal advice in an way, shape, or form...it is just being realistic.

    Ps. I'm curious how many plaintiffs can "prove injury" by the BBRY not bringing BB10 to the PB? LMFAO.... Can I "prove injury" for my Gateway laptop from 3 years ago not being compatible with Windows 7?
    07-17-13 09:22 AM
  2. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Sounds like you're giving legal advice.

    In what jurisdiction(s) have you established competence in the areas of corporate or similar fraud, potential corporate or similar fraud, and the remedies (including monetary damages) available to plaintiffs who can prove injury?

    My guess is that the answer to the jurisdictions questions is ZERO.

    If that is the case, the value of your advice to "move on" merits another ZERO.
    That doesnt seem like legal advice? Seems like personal advise to me, no mention of any legalities at all. In a typical break up, when one party tells the other it is time to move on, is that legal advice? Absolutely not.
    mnhockeycoach99 likes this.
    07-17-13 09:23 AM
  3. Branta's Avatar
    Other than articles in tech mags, I did not see any BlackBerry point of sale material that said it would be upgraded to bb10.

    Sorry but move on. I still use my PB if I want to type on a bigger screen. And I can blue tooth my PB Keyboard to my z10. All have their utility.

    Posted via CB10
    POS material is entirely irrelevant. An explicit and plausible statement was made by a responsible senior officer of the company, livecast and propagated worldwide via internet. IF that statement was the deciding factor for someone deciding to buy (hardware or stocks/shares) and it was later found to be false and the company should reasonably have known, the crime has been committed. It doesn't matter if the victim made the decision which benefits a completely different third party, the offense is to fraudulently gain or benefit "self or another", or cause (risk of) loss to another person.
    07-17-13 09:29 AM
  4. tekware's Avatar
    do people complain to Microsoft when they buy a laptop and in a year, it isn't compatible with the newest Windows OS? SMDH
    Your analogy doesn't work, since that prior version of Windows still runs all of the software that the new one does. It may be a slightly different version of said software, say 32bit vs 64bit, but it still does it just fine. With the PlayBook, we cannot run ANY BB10 app unless the developer went out of his/her way to make it so. That's the problem the PlayBook always had - a lack of apps, and with BlackBerry's refusal to update it, now it won't run all the new BB10 apps that you see drifting by, or any new Android apps, since they won't update the Android engine.

    If you asked a PlayBook user, knowing what they know now, if they would have purchased their PlayBook one or two years ago, I would hazard a guess that only 20% would still do so. Pose that question to an iPad user (and I hate iPads) and I bet you get a response closer to 80%.
    07-17-13 09:40 AM
  5. ubeda92's Avatar
    [QUOTE=mnhockeycoach99;8839636

    Ps. I'm curious how many plaintiffs can "prove injury" by the BBRY not bringing BB10 to the PB? [/QUOTE]

    I don't know. The answer would probably not be identical in all of the jurisdictions in which Blackberry has sold Playbooks.

    Furthermore, the levels of injury that one could prove and the available remedies would also probably not be identical in all of the jurisdictions in which Blackberry has sold Playbooks.

    I suspect that in the U.S., where I live, the likely damages to members of a class in a class action suit would be fairly minimal. (But that's a guess; I have no expertise in this area.) Plaintiffs filing individual lawsuits might fare better in terms of damages. (Another conjecture on my part.)

    That said, were such a lawsuit ever filed in the U.S. and were pertinent Blackberry management members ever forced to participate in one or more relevant depositions, I wouldn't be surprised if said management experienced some discomfort answering questions regarding the actual efforts Blackberry made to bring OS10 to the Playbook.

    Produced on a desktop purchased in 2002, running Windows XP.
    FF22 likes this.
    07-17-13 09:46 AM
  6. mnhockeycoach99's Avatar
    POS material is entirely irrelevant. An explicit and plausible statement was made by a responsible senior officer of the company, livecast and propagated worldwide via internet. IF that statement was the deciding factor for someone deciding to buy (hardware or stocks/shares) and it was later found to be false and the company should reasonably have known, the crime has been committed. It doesn't matter if the victim made the decision which benefits a completely different third party, the offense is to fraudulently gain or benefit "self or another", or cause (risk of) loss to another person.
    There is no doubt that Heins made this statement...the burden of proof is showing that Thorsten knowingly disseminated fictitious and misleading information to perpetuate sales of the PlayBook for BBRY's gain. Good luck with that.....
    07-17-13 09:47 AM
  7. flyingsolid's Avatar
    Well, that's not good news. I like BlackBerry too much to move away from them, but a muted rant from me expressing irritation. I am not sure what resources it would have taken to update a few things (like browser and Android) but I was expecting some update.

    Oh well, still use the Playbook as it is and still will. Just glad to know when end of life happened...
    07-17-13 09:48 AM
  8. mnhockeycoach99's Avatar
    Your analogy doesn't work, since that prior version of Windows still runs all of the software that the new one does. It may be a slightly different version of said software, say 32bit vs 64bit, but it still does it just fine. With the PlayBook, we cannot run ANY BB10 app unless the developer went out of his/her way to make it so. That's the problem the PlayBook always had - a lack of apps, and with BlackBerry's refusal to update it, now it won't run all the new BB10 apps that you see drifting by, or any new Android apps, since they won't update the Android engine.

    If you asked a PlayBook user, knowing what they know now, if they would have purchased their PlayBook one or two years ago, I would hazard a guess that only 20% would still do so. Pose that question to an iPad user (and I hate iPads) and I bet you get a response closer to 80%.
    So all software created for Windows 8 will work on a machine running Windows 98 or XP?
    07-17-13 09:49 AM
  9. mnhockeycoach99's Avatar
    I don't know. The answer would probably not be identical in all of the jurisdictions in which Blackberry has sold Playbooks.

    Furthermore, the levels of injury that one could prove and the available remedies would also probably not be identical in all of the jurisdictions in which Blackberry has sold Playbooks.

    I suspect that in the U.S., where I live, the likely damages to members of a class in a class action suit would be fairly minimal. (But that's a guess; I have no expertise in this area.) Plaintiffs filing individual lawsuits might fare better in terms of damages. (Another conjecture on my part.)

    That said, were such a lawsuit ever filed in the U.S. and were pertinent Blackberry management members ever forced to participate in one or more relevant depositions, I wouldn't be surprised if said management experienced some discomfort answering questions regarding the actual efforts Blackberry made to bring OS10 to the Playbook.

    Produced on a desktop purchased in 2002, running Windows XP.
    I would venture to say that someone that "thinks" they have proof of injury would be better served just buying a new tablet that fits their needs and not WASTING their money on legal fees that will likely (if anything) result in a few free apps and maybe a $50 coupon off a BB10 device. Just sayin.....
    07-17-13 09:52 AM
  10. duty14's Avatar
    Do you really wanna go there? The apps you quoted are so limited and there just those few in the whole app world.. The apps from the BB app world are so simple, superficial, limited cause it don't even worth mentioned... It's not even worth comparing to Google apps and IOS apps. If you think that is enough for you then stick to your dead Playbook and we will talk in a few years how satisfied you are with it. And i will tell you how satisfied i am with an Ipad or Samsung tablet. OK? We will see who is happier and who changed their mind...
    07-17-13 09:52 AM
  11. mnhockeycoach99's Avatar
    Do you really wanna go there? The apps you quoted are so limited and there just those few in the whole app world.. The apps from the BB app world are so simple, superficial, limited cause it don't even worth mentioned... It's not even worth comparing to Google apps and IOS apps. If you think that is enough for you then stick to your dead Playbook and we will talk in a few years how satisfied you are with it. And i will tell you how satisfied i am with an Ipad or Samsung tablet. OK? We will see who is happier and who changed their mind...
    Okay....you do that bud.. I'm curious how limited watching a movie on Crackle or Flixster is? Zinio not display magazines as good as the iPad? LMFAO......

    Ps. You have 8 posts....are you new to BBRY in general or just here to troll?
    07-17-13 09:58 AM
  12. sheailewis1's Avatar
    The new management is gonna' do what they can to save cash. Supporting old products would be a bad move for a company that's trying to transition.

    Just because they mentioned a Pb update doesn't mean its going to see the light of day. Projects get canned all the time from all companies.
    07-17-13 10:01 AM
  13. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    I really wonder how many IT Departments got burned buying PlayBooks... that are right now trying to decided if they want to go with BB10??
    Probably not very many as I doubt that many are in use in corporations. Plus, they can still deploy manage it with with BES 10
    07-17-13 10:07 AM
  14. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    would recommend people to not buy hopes from a certain company.
    I personally take it further. Don't buy hopes from anycompany. Look at what it does today. If it meets your needs with what it does today, buy it. If it doesn't, don't buy it. Insert whatever product you want here
    07-17-13 10:11 AM
  15. tekware's Avatar
    So all software created for Windows 8 will work on a machine running Windows 98 or XP?
    I want you to read that last sentence to yourself S L O W L Y. You get that it's 2013? You get that Windows 98 came out 15 years ago right? You get that a computer from 1998 had memory in the MBs not GBs? You get that Windows 98 is 16bit, not 32bit or 64bit?

    Let's go back further. Microsoft released Windows 95 in late 1994. They didn't envision the Internet and browsing. Windows 95 came with no browser, no TCP dialer, no Internet. Did Microsoft say that you would need to buy a new version of Windows to get this new fangled Internet? No. They updated their OS and they continued to do so until 2001. They have done the same for XP only now they claim their support lifecycle is about 10 years for their operating systems. You see they suffered some flack for ending the Windows 98 lifecycle at six years so they increased it.

    BlackBerry on the other hand, released an unfinished product from the get go (they admitted this many times over) which they continually promised they would update. After one minor update a year ago to give the PlayBook e-mail (the latest REALLY minor update gets zero acknowledgement), and two years of waiting, and continual promises that it would see a BB10 update, they just up and said they weren't going to do anything with it anymore. I intend to point this out anytime someone asks me about BlackBerry.
    Last edited by tekware; 07-17-13 at 10:27 AM.
    bmantz65, Nyrup and bodjor like this.
    07-17-13 10:17 AM
  16. duty14's Avatar
    Okay....you do that bud.. I'm curious how limited watching a movie on Crackle or Flixster is? Zinio not display magazines as good as the iPad? LMFAO......

    Ps. You have 8 posts....are you new to BBRY in general or just here to troll?
    Does it mater how many post i have? Does that mean i am not worthy to be here? Or i don't care about BB or i didn't care over the years?
    No need to extend this useless discusion. If you are a PB user you know how limited you are in Apps.. or if you don't know you are blind and easily satisfied. And future apps is now impossible to come with the confirmation that BB won't support PB with any new updates..
    I am not here to troll but i need to speak on PB forum about the injustice of BB done for PB users and let them know that we are fustrated with their decisions and promises.
    07-17-13 10:21 AM
  17. hallda01's Avatar
    Lie is a very strong word to use. Did BlackBerry have intentions of bringing BB10 to the PlayBook yes. Were they ultimately able to? No. This does not constitute a lie, rather a failure in their engineering teams and a failure to communicate this to their customers. Should they and could they have handled it better? Yes absolutely.
    So they aren't liars they're just failures? Is this really better?
    07-17-13 10:24 AM
  18. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    And with that, the door has officially closed on the possibility of me spending money on another BlackBerry product, at least until they can regain my trust.

    I bought my PlayBook based on what it could do at the time, not what it might be able to do sometime in the future based on a CEO's promise, so I am still quite pleased with it and feel I got a great product for the (drastically discounted) price.

    But now it will fade into obsolescence a lot more quickly than I had hoped.

    The only way BlackBerry can possibly maintain a shred of honor out of the PlayBook debacle in my eyes would be to provide a way to unlock the tablet and allow us to load a different OS on it.
    FF22, playbook_swiper1 and bodjor like this.
    07-17-13 10:35 AM
  19. anon1727506's Avatar
    Probably not very many as I doubt that many are in use in corporations. Plus, they can still deploy manage it with with BES 10

    But it isn't a matter of being able to mange the PlayBook on a network. Or if the company, or specifically the CEO lied to anyone about a specific product (I don't see it as a lie).

    IT'S ABOUT OUR PERCEPTION OF THE COMPANY, CAN WE REALLY TRUST THEM TO DO WHAT THEY SAY THEY CAN DO! Namely turn the company around and stay in business so that any investment you make today in products isn't wasted because they can't perform as "stated". For many companies it isn't even about the expense, it's about reliability - what would happen worst case.
    FF22 likes this.
    07-17-13 11:10 AM
  20. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    So they aren't liars they're just failures? Is this really better?
    Legally? Absolutely lol
    In terms of the company? Probably much worse


    Keep in mind this was a failure to bring the software onto older hardware. (Playbook is aging quite rapidly, 2 years + now, and it was "moderately new" hardware at launch).
    07-17-13 11:17 AM
  21. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    specifically the CEO lied to anyone about a specific product (I don't see it as a lie).
    Me either. A broken promise, for sure. A lie to me says he never intended to do so and never put a line of code to do the effort. Sucks, I'm disappointed in it, but it happens all the time.

    IT'S ABOUT OUR PERCEPTION OF THE COMPANY, CAN WE REALLY TRUST THEM TO DO WHAT THEY SAY THEY CAN DO!
    Agree. I just don't think the PlayBook matters all that much to the outside world. And I say this as a PlayBook owner. I doubt there are many deployed in corporations. I doubt many people that aren't nerds who read tech blogs know that they ever promised to give it BlackBerry 10 or how it would have benefited from it.

    Their bigger concern, I suspect, is not whether or not they kept a promise to support a giant money losing flop of a product, but rather whether the company is big enough to survive in a highly competitive market with gargantuans.
    07-17-13 11:31 AM
  22. mnhockeycoach99's Avatar
    Does it mater how many post i have? Does that mean i am not worthy to be here? Or i don't care about BB or i didn't care over the years?
    No need to extend this useless discusion. If you are a PB user you know how limited you are in Apps.. or if you don't know you are blind and easily satisfied. And future apps is now impossible to come with the confirmation that BB won't support PB with any new updates..
    I am not here to troll but i need to speak on PB forum about the injustice of BB done for PB users and let them know that we are fustrated with their decisions and promises.
    Calm down dude...I didn't call you a troll...I asked you a question so relax as I meant no disrespect from it. Also, I'm not sure what what more an app like Crackle or Zinio can do on the iPad versus the PlayBook...but the versions I have meet my needs. Which brings me to my second point.... Everyone has different wants/needs out of a product. If a device meets those needs....great. If not....sorry and good luck in your search for one that does....but you can't call me "blind and easily satisfied" because my needs aren't the same as yours.

    Ps. I am just as frustrated as you about not at least getting BBM, JB and BB10 app support (at minimum...but why waste my valuable time and energy complaining to deaf ears about it? BBRY isn't going to do anything about it.....so I either have to move on using the tablet as-is or buy a different one.

    PSS... Not to mention that I think it is an utter embarrassment that Android and Apple users will get BBM and BBRYs own product won't (unless I sideload the Android version). SMDH
    07-17-13 11:33 AM
  23. app_Developer's Avatar
    Lie is a very strong word to use. Did BlackBerry have intentions of bringing BB10 to the PlayBook yes. Were they ultimately able to? No. This does not constitute a lie, rather a failure in their engineering teams and a failure to communicate this to their customers. Should they and could they have handled it better? Yes absolutely.
    I agree with this. My Dev Alpha A model has only 1GB of RAM. So I think at least as of that point they didn't know that BB10 would need a minimum of 2GB. I don't know when the dev alpha's got 2GB?
    07-17-13 11:45 AM
  24. ppeters914's Avatar
    i will not waste time on this thread anymore. loads of work to do.
    good night! sweet dreams!
    thanks!
    -paul
    Promise?
    07-17-13 12:15 PM
  25. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    I agree with this. My Dev Alpha A model has only 1GB of RAM. So I think at least as of that point they didn't know that BB10 would need a minimum of 2GB. I don't know when the dev alpha's got 2GB?
    I wonder if this became apparent once all the pieces got put together? Building an OS is a mammoth project like building a puzzle. A lot of the pieces are constructed individually, but then assembled and heavily tested in a big software integration period.

    Further to our other conversation, I can't help but think they wanted BlackBerry 10 to run on 1 GB devices initially. It just doesn't make sense that RIM would voluntarily double their RAM costs to have devices with among the highest RAM on the market. ;-) This is the company that doesn't chase the spec leaders ever.

    This leads me to believe that they discovered a problem once all the pieces from all the teams were integrated and working together. The choices were either to a) address the performance issue but delay BlackBerry 10 again (putting the company at risk); or b) add 1 GB of memory to all devices and drop support for 1 GB devices and keep the launch date.

    I also wonder if the plan to go back and retrofit the OS to 1 GB devices was scuttled when it became clear that successor PlayBooks were not going to be viable?
    07-17-13 12:15 PM
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