08-29-13 10:19 AM
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  1. DigitalMadness's Avatar
    No tablet on the OS means you go elsewhere. Eventually, you migrate completely elsewhere because people buy systems. You have an iphone, you'll get an ipad. You have an android phone, you'll get an android tablet (the exceptions need not spam me; you're a minority). So without a BB tablet, it's really over for BB10. I realized that cake was baked when Heins first said there'd be no more tablets from Rim. Since then, I decided to wait for the next N7 to complement my android phone, or check out a windows tablet since I've got Win 8 on my laptop.

    The message here is, don't buy a BB10 phone at this point. Just pick your alternative and go to it, cause you're going anyway when you replace your PB. And remember, it was BB's decision, not yours.
    I agree with you that people who are in the market for a phone and a tablet combo will want the two to be on the same platform for obvious reasons. That's why I'm having buyers remorse with my z10.

    Posted from my ??????
    07-23-13 02:26 AM
  2. msps's Avatar
    I agree with you that people who are in the market for a phone and a tablet combo will want the two to be on the same platform f
    And that was precisely the reason I bought two Z10s and waited patiently for my two PBs to be updated to BB10.


    Doesn't matter how good Z10 are or how bad. I wanted a combo hence
    new tablet for me = both Z10 go and no more BlackBerry in my family.


    PS. Never had a legacy BlackBerry phone. I was sold on BB10. Too bad
    07-23-13 03:50 AM
  3. Q100's Avatar
    I think Mike and Jim had a vision, a good concept for a tablet that could be Ipad killer. What they underestimated was the lack of eco system to support that and the very limited time to execute properly. Playbook was ahead of it's time when it was conceived. It looks really good on paper. The product was release immature. Thor had to pick up where both Ceos left off and try to jump ahead with BB10. Same thing happen to Thor. On paper BB10 on the playbook would have make a greater impact on the launch of Z10 and Q10 had it been successful port over with the current eco system last year. Seems like the company run out of time and losing it's market share rapidly for them to launch a well develop devices. The rush to put either the playbook in the market and the BB10 devices certainly seal the company reputation for poor execution. It's neither here nor there. So far the leaked on the Aristo is not impressive to say the least. Another fail attempt to wow customers will be the last nail to the coffin. What else is there for the fans to look forward to? Never mind getting new customers, the company can't even keep the current subscribers to stay loyal to the brand. Compounded by the mishandled of the playbook debacle, the word on the street is not going to be kind to BB. Let's hope the launch of BBM across all platform yield some positive result. Time is not on this company side.
    I hope that BBM cross platform is flop just like the promised playbook update.You want BBM on your phone buy a blackberry.
    07-23-13 05:22 AM
  4. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    I hope that BBM cross platform is flop just like the promised playbook update.You want BBM on your phone buy a blackberry.
    That will benefit you how?
    07-23-13 08:35 AM
  5. playbook_swiper1's Avatar
    K, we get it. No significant updates. Well then how about some insignificant ones? Something? Anything? Please sah...kin I 'ave sum'or?
    FF22, blueberrymerry and hasib123 like this.
    07-23-13 11:30 AM
  6. lorax1284's Avatar
    I think Mike and Jim had a vision, a good concept for a tablet that could be Ipad killer. What they underestimated was the lack of eco system to support that and the very limited time to execute properly. Playbook was ahead of it's time when it was conceived. It looks really good on paper. The product was release immature.
    I really think the PlayBook would have "succeeded" in its own way if it was marketed as a BlackBerry Handheld companion. The sheer number of people who really LIKED Bridge, even though by definition that means that there is no data i.e. no email / calendar / contacts on your Tablet, is astounding when you think of it. The PlayBook was RIPPED TO SHREDS by reviewers for lacking this functionality because of this mispositioning... while folks with BRAINS (like me) prefer having all my data on a single device (and backed up to a second device) but not having duplicate data on multiple devices that you have to sync to one another.

    With the PlayBook I would have my handheld (My beloved 9810) in my pocket and read my mail and surf the web through the 9810's 4G internet connection, seamlessly, and read email through the Bridge client and when I read a message, it was marked read on my handheld. How is that not a superior experience to that of having the same email on 3 devices and when you read it on one it remains "unread" on the other two?

    The PlayBook was and is a great device, but now broken, ironically by loyal BlackBerry customers SPENDING MORE MONEY ON BLACKBERRY PRODUCTS. If I could all go back in time to January 29th, 2013, and spread the word "On BB10, there will be no BlackBerry Bridge functionality with your PlayBook: not even an announcement or anything!", Past-Me would have slammed the brakes on my Z10 purchase and stuck with my 9810 until I heard that Bridge was going to come... and I paid full unsubsidized price for my Z10, for this "privilege" of losing the value of my worthless 9810 (has no resale value, regardless of how much I like it), the PlayBook (other tablets are better for just web surfing: without bridge PlayBook has lost a competitive advantage) and now even my Z10 is worth less than I guess a third of what I paid for it.

    I love my Z10. I miss my PlayBook.

    I sold 2/3s of my BlackBerry stock today. BlackBerry is being run by people bound and determined to marginalize themselves. In business, you have to balance your future interests against the needs of your loyal customers: you have to support your CURRENT customers as you pursue new ones. BlackBerry has got it wrong. Seriously, terribly, incredibly wrong. The QNX OS strategy is excellent: their product managers or whoever is making the decisions about underpowered hardware etc. not supporting PlayBook, alienating loyal BBOS users "on principle" or so it seems. I'm so frustrated and honestly, disappointed.

    The BB10 technology is sound. Their business strategy is being pecked to death by sparrows and they're just fine with it. I am actually shaking my head as I type this, but... what's left to do but wait for something better to come along?
    Ragwan, FF22, kevinnugent and 5 others like this.
    07-23-13 05:22 PM
  7. duty14's Avatar
    Unfortunately it's worse than that.. A tablet is more than a handheld devices for reading messages and emails.. A tablet is a device with a whole lot of possibilities and capabilities... It's your personal minicomputer and everyday use device. For me( and maybe others share the same idea ) its my everyday device for everything, and carry it around everywhere i go. I use a tablet at home or in public places or traveling or at my job etc. It's my personal device and i do everything with it everywhere. You are not bound to stay at home to work or play or watch movies, listen to music or read etc. A tablet its a good idea in general because is a middle compromise for a large variety of use. It's not as powerful as a PC or laptop and not as small and weak and limited as a phone. And because it can do what computers can do and be light and decent small dimensions ,you can have your device for everything with you everywhere and use it in what manner you like when you like. That's the beauty of a tablet and it could be very helpful in everyday use. So to read emails is a very limited use of it and I wouldn't be bothered if a BB10 would come or not because it wouldn't change a lot in that case for that limited use. But when I bought it I was planning to use it for its full capabilities including the ones that were promised. So you can imagine the disappointment and frustration that after 2 years of waiting and understanding the company difficult times , after the release of BB10 and finding out after half year that not only they will not bring BB10 to PlayBook but they forget all their promises and even forget that PlayBook exists and some of us invested money and hopes in their product.

    So its a little hard for me to shake my head and realize that this is actually happening and that's how they treat their customers that waited 2 years for their promises. So its not ok and will eventually accept it and move on to a more serious company that can deliver quality products and value their customers and never will I look back at at Bb and hope they will lose a lot of customers by their decisions and will get their reward in time.
    07-24-13 09:21 AM
  8. Rule9's Avatar
    I think some of you guys are living in a bubble. Is there any tablet maker out there at all who continues to support 2 year old tablets besides Apple? If not, then why expect BB to somehow be different?
    lotuslanderz likes this.
    07-25-13 08:17 AM
  9. uncle_numpty's Avatar
    I think some of you guys are living in a bubble. Is there any tablet maker out there at all who continues to support 2 year old tablets besides Apple? If not, then why expect BB to somehow be different?
    This is a fair point, but most other manufacturers have superceded their tablets with newer models - and as u said apple does offer OS upgrades to some older models.

    However.... the PB is BBRY's only tablet, and despite themselves it's a pretty good tablet and the gestures set it apart from all the others ( for the moment ) but it's the lack of support from BBRY tahts caused it most harm.

    And to make this situation worse, it's still listed as part of their current hardware portfolio.

    People can defend BBRY all they want, but the PB situation is utterly indefensible whichever way you spin it.
    rthonpm, FF22, dphjeff and 2 others like this.
    07-25-13 08:36 AM
  10. rthonpm's Avatar
    There are some very good points to this thread, as well as a lot of very hyperbolic, passionate responses. The overall issue we can all agree on is that BlackBerry still needs to work on being more forthcoming in all manners of interaction. Developers, users, and potential customers all want to go into a transaction (whether time or money) with a clear idea of what they're getting into. If the PlayBook is to be an orphaned platform then just come out and say so. If it will get security updates for a set length of time, so be it.

    Even at two years old, the bulk of sales were after the firesale and reviews after PBOS 2.0 were much kinder to the device, so even if the plan is to marginalise it, just come out and stop treating every decision in the company as something so secret that the outside world can't know about it.

    For the record, I still use my PlayBook a great deal: it was my constant companion on my vacation last week and still is a great tool for work, and commuting.
    07-25-13 08:48 AM
  11. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    Have BBRY officially said that the PB is no longer being worked on? Not a quip during a shareholder conference call, not a tweet, but a proper press release saying what they intend to do.

    I think they just don't have the balls to do it. No proper communications, a muddled product lineup, buggy products... this company is being turned around all right by Heins and friends, turned to head straight into the iceberg.

    I use my PB as a laptop replacement because it's nice to meet clients with a small leather folio, plug in an HDMI cable into a TV and ramble away. It saddens me to see how BBRY are throwing away a proper work tablet to focus on phones. And they should call it a WorkBook instead of this PlayBook nonsense which only Americans can understand
    07-25-13 08:49 AM
  12. msps's Avatar
    I think some of you guys are living in a bubble. Is there any tablet maker out there at all who continues to support 2 year old tablets besides Apple? If not, then why expect BB to somehow be different?
    Because other sell finished product.

    BlackBerry sold half finished beta version tablet at premium and promised to fix it soon
    07-25-13 09:41 AM
  13. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    "Soon" as in "in a few months", "by the end of the year", then "never". What other tech manufacturer strings along users like that?
    dphjeff likes this.
    07-25-13 10:26 AM
  14. arvind1983's Avatar
    And I like how you said iOS could probably run android apps yet... you have nothing to back that statement up.

    Sent from my BB10 smartphone.
    Your explanation of HUB being heavy does not seem to be valid. PlayBook has a native email app, take away the hub and still BB10 wouldnt run on 1 GB? Something is really wrong with this OS.
    07-25-13 10:54 AM
  15. msps's Avatar
    "Soon" as in "in a few months", "by the end of the year", then "never". What other tech manufacturer strings along users like that?
    Palm
    Atari
    Sega
    Polaroid
    Commodore
    07-25-13 11:08 AM
  16. blueberrymerry's Avatar


    And which ones are still around?
    Thorsten Heins, hear hear!
    07-25-13 11:14 AM
  17. DigitalMadness's Avatar
    I think some of you guys are living in a bubble. Is there any tablet maker out there at all who continues to support 2 year old tablets besides Apple? If not, then why expect BB to somehow be different?
    Because BlackBerry had stated or implied for the pass two years that they were going to finish the playbook to a level that reflects a premium price product.

    I don't buy the two year old excuse because the hardware is as good if not better than some of the tablets that had been released in the pass year.

    I think it is an issue of BlackBerry trying desperately to release Bb10 that they threw code efficiency out the window.
    I worked in a failed multi year IT project where the management of the contractors told their developers that they don't care how it's code as long as it gets done because they were so far behind and their profit are dropping.




    Posted from my ??????
    WeAreNotAlone and Synerworks like this.
    07-25-13 11:15 AM
  18. FF22's Avatar
    I think some of you guys are living in a bubble. Is there any tablet maker out there at all who continues to support 2 year old tablets besides Apple? If not, then why expect BB to somehow be different?
    WHY? Because for more than a year they said they would. THEY or the CEO PROMISED that they would. Is more really needed? Do you expect blatant promises to be observed? RIM actually sold pb's to people who expected that promise to be executed.

    So, yes, continued support for a two year old tablet when promised is something folks EXPECTED to occur.
    07-25-13 11:57 AM
  19. WeAreNotAlone's Avatar
    WHY? Because for more than a year they said they would. THEY or the CEO PROMISED that they would. Is more really needed? Do you expect blatant promises to be observed? RIM actually sold pb's to people who expected that promise to be executed.

    So, yes, continued support for a two year old tablet when promised is something folks EXPECTED to occur.
    +1

    On the two year old aspect.

    Alot of people that "literally bought into" or fell for the promises and statements made by the CEO of RIM, aka BlackBerry Thorston Heins did not know the device was "2" yrs old at the time of purchase. (Typical fanboy response will be, oh they should have "researched it'.)

    From my conversations with multiple retailers and regional managers - The PlayBook suffered from a extremely HIGH consumer customer return rate. The reason most quoted for the return was poor APP selection.

    Because of this many HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of PLAYBOOKS sat in various warehouses around the world. The things weren't SELLING. (One of my units had been sitting for 18 months!!!- others about 12-15months!.. Not exactly what I'd calling a "hot-selling" item!... the word DEAD INVENTORY comes to mind.)

    Imagine being a retailer with tons of RIM/BlackBery product you've been sitting on for 15 to 18 months! How many retailers do you think are going to be wanting to get left holding the bag again?


    Fast forward to 3rd quarter 2012?

    Statements are made by the CEO of BLACKBERRY that the PlayBook will get a update to the new BB10 OS, which will address previously shortcomings of the device and assure the PlayBook doesn't go EOL... at that time a new LTE version is coming to various carriers and a 3G version for the UK. So here we are with the assurances, the WORD of the CEO stating all PlayBooks will get a update to BB10 OS... and there is 2 new variations of the device plus some talk about a 10 inch version as well.

    We are told to "wait", that the focus of the BlackBerry is getting those BB10 OS powered cell phones to market.... Once after they get into the marketplace the BB10 OS for the PlayBook will shortly follow. (Sounds reasonable, then again there were never any "leaked" BB10 PlayBook builds, nor any news from BlackBerry on the status of the project.

    Months go by with NO word from BlackBerry, then all of the sudden during a "Earnings Call" the CEO of BlackBerry states "he" had to kill the project off. (2013-06-28)
    No details are given beyond the user experience would be sub-par.

    No mention of a PLAN B, a fallback plan in case the BB10 update was not doable.
    No mention of a BB10 "lite" that would enable current PlayBook owners to access the new BB10 app eco-system, No mention of updating the Android runtime, etc.


    Backtrack a little:
    Many thousands upon thousands of unsold PlayBooks sitting in warehouses.
    APP selection is a JOKE for 90% of consumers.
    PlayBook is being used as a "Test-Bed" for the new BB10 OS.
    Forcus of BlackBerry is moving the new BB10 powered cell phones into the marketplace.
    BlackBerry needs the new BB10 OS and the devices to be a "SUCCESS".

    The LAST thing BlackBerry wants is for any NEGATIVE INFO to come out that would tarnish, or affect the sales of "new" BB10 OS powered devices or the BB10 OS itself.


    So what do you do as the CEO if you found out soon after you stated all PlayBooks would get the BB10 OS that more money or manpower was needed to make it happen (and they told you it was coming out of YOUR bonus check), OR if was found out the new OS is a ram hog a week later?

    Simple, you keep your mouth SHUT and WAIT as LONG as possible to announce you are killing off the PlayBook BB10 OS- This accomplishes several things:
    A: It allows you to sell off as much as the Dead PlayBook stock as possible.
    B: The more Dead stock sold, the better retailers feel about stocking your "stuff".
    C: The longer you drag it out DECREASES the numbers of "returns". (I'm sorry sir we can't take this back as you're beyond your return window.)
    D: The longer you wait, the less impact it will make on BB10 OS powered device sales.
    E: The longer you wait makes it easier to say "This is a EOL product" No futher improvements or issues that have plague this device will be fixed.
    F: The longer you wait, it allows all those "trouble tickets" to start piling up on the new OS (BB10 OS) which can be worked to your advantage as a reason for killing off the BB10 OS, a variation thereof or any kind of improvements to the current OS.
    EG:
    Owners of the new devices will be wanting their devices fixed, them saying things like "Man I'm glad they killed the PlayBook off, Man I wished they hadn't wasted time on that thing at all... My new phone is messed up. Fix my phone! forget about the PlayBook, etc

    I say all of this because I bet a large percentage of the PlayBooks that had been sitting in BlackBerry and Retailers warehouses around the world which was previously "DEAD STOCK"... ONLY started "Moving" out the door after word spread the PlayBook would be getting a update to the new wiz-bang-Hey-This OS better save us OS called BB10.

    I would bet a large percentage of customers which were told by a friend to get a PlayBook, that it would be receiving a update to the wiz-bang- OS named BB10 upon visiting "APP WORLD" are finding out the app selection for the 2.xxx is "lacking" and are unhappy with the product but are now beyond their return window.

    Here you have a device that retailed for $699, you can get one for $135 to $150 and it gets the update to BlackBerry's current OS which will make the device competitive with current offerings?

    Human nature what it is, there's alot of "Bang for you Buck" in that situation.
    (Translation SALES, or MULTIPLE SALES of a previously slow moving product.)


    On a personal level I bought $4,000 worth of BlackBerry/RIM products based upon the CEO of RIM, Aka BlackBerry stating such. On a professional level I probably helped 100 sales happen.


    My purchase decision was based upon:
    Company officials, the CEO no less stating the PlayBook would be getting a update to the new BB10 OS, PERIOD.
    This update occurring AFTER the BB10 OS phone line was released.

    It was tempered by people saying... BlackBerry stuff is passe, and or BlackBerry is a did-run, last years news, they are on the brink of bankruptcy / there is talk of closing down factories (which they are doing) /selling off the device division, etc.

    ************************************

    So what should be done?

    (Well in you live in Germany or England /UK you can demand your money back.)

    If BlackBerry is not going to follow thru on their word the BB10 OS (Or offer any variant- 2.xxx update /2.5, 3.0.- Customer deciding if the variant suits their needs.)

    BlackBerry needs to institute a BUY-BACK-PROGRAM in which customers are REIMBURSED in FULL

    Customer calls them up- a prepaid RMA is created, the items and receipts for such are shipped back to BlackBerry and a check is cut within 14-days (Go to put a time frame on these BlackBerry guys, otherwise it will be, oh we're doing the checks "next" month..)

    *Note to fanboys, those that have stock or a financial interest in Blackberry. I've noticed alot of people here saying the numbers of persons who bought a PlayBook based upon statements made by Blackberry are small, that the device is two years old, it doesn't have enough RAM to run BB10 OS, etc.. If the device is so great as-is the number of PlayBooks "bought back under the BUY-BACK-PROGRAM should be small.

    If this is not done, I for one will find it hard to purchase or recommend Blackberry products in the future.
    .
    Last edited by WeAreNotAlone; 07-26-13 at 11:06 AM.
    FF22, blueberrymerry, msps and 3 others like this.
    07-25-13 01:49 PM
  20. jpash549's Avatar
    Maybe Thor ought to offer the opportunity to those who wish to try to use the "kludgy" version of BB10 on Playbook with the warning that it stinks but you got it. No fixes but you can dump it and reinstall the non BB10 system. But that wouldn't stop the complaints and accusations would it?
    FF22 and dannykavs like this.
    07-25-13 03:55 PM
  21. ssbtech's Avatar
    After seeing the Origami Browser in action on the PlayBook, I really think BlackBerry could resurrect the PlayBook at low cost.

    Looking at the quality of some of the apps available, many of which were developed by one or two people as a hobby project, it wouldn't take much for BlackBerry to polish up the PlayBook.

    Companies like BlackBerry grow unnecessarily big far too quickly. It would take a team of maybe 10 developers to finish off the PlayBook. Browser, keyboard, photo gallery app, music player, etc... could all be finished properly and at very little cost.

    Their position of abandoning the PlayBook is a big "F U" to PlayBook owners.
    FF22 and dphjeff like this.
    07-25-13 04:51 PM
  22. ubeda92's Avatar
    I think some of you guys are living in a bubble. Is there any tablet maker out there at all who continues to support 2 year old tablets besides Apple? If not, then why expect BB to somehow be different?
    As many, if not all, of the replies to your uninformed post have demonstrated, you appear to be living under a bridge, with your head planted in the mud.

    As others have pointed out, RIM/Blackberry released the 3G version of the Playbook (in Great Britain) less than a year ago and a 4G LTE version (in North America) about a year ago..

    Why don't you explain to the purchasers of these devices why they shouldn't receive significant updates going forward, even though they've owned the device less than a year or about a year.
    dphjeff, FF22 and WeAreNotAlone like this.
    07-25-13 06:34 PM
  23. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    I've already made up my mind - we're dealing with an incompetent company with no idea what its core strengths are or who its customers really are.

    Why would they abandon 3G/4G PlayBooks so quickly after pushing them to governments and large corporate buyers? It's like they're lining up all the salespeople, developers and managers who worked on the PlayBook up against the wall and shooting them all. I think BBRY is in much deeper trouble than we think... they can't even come up with a coherent strategy for an existing product, let alone new ones.

    I'm not a fan of Bridge because I dumped my BB phone long ago, but I do appreciate the connectivity that allows both PB and BB phone to function as one integrated unit. I use my PB as a standalone tablet (and mobile computer, take that Heins!) occassionally tethered through Bluetooth to my phone. There are glimpses of brilliance in PB OS that bring me back to the good old days of Psion organizers but those bits are overshadowed by an overwhelming sense of an opportunity squandered. The PlayBook could have been a real iPad competitor combining the ease of use of iOS and the customizability of Android with QNX security.

    One more rant... why the heck did BBRY go with Cascades? I wonder if that decision delayed BB10 so much. They ended up taking the well-proven Qt stack and re-writing most of it to make Cascades, when they could have just worked on from the open source Symbian, Meego and Android ports. BBRY spent so long re-inventing the wheel and worse, made it closed source too.
    07-25-13 09:48 PM
  24. WeAreNotAlone's Avatar
    Maybe Thor ought to offer the opportunity to those who wish to try to use the "kludgy" version of BB10 on Playbook with the warning that it stinks but you got it. No fixes but you can dump it and reinstall the non BB10 system. But that wouldn't stop the complaints and accusations would it?
    Nope. It has to be functional.

    And BTW I would like a full listing of the number of people on the teams, their expertise level and the number of man-hours BlackBerry put into "trying" to make BB10 OS "happen" on the PlayBook,along with a detailed log of what work they had done.

    Additionally I'd like to have signed notarized statements stating on what DATE Blackberry "knew" the BB10 OS would be a no-go on the PlayBook...

    I think they knew months ago and withheld that info so as to not negatively impact on new device sales, the release of the "new" BB10 OS.

    Last thing you want when releasing new products with a new OS is any kind of negative press you know.

    PS: In any business you have a PLAN B.... Where's their PLAN B?
    07-26-13 01:15 AM
  25. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    B = bankruptcy

    Nokia stopped Symbian^3 development years ago but they still release updates for even the first-generation devices. BBRY can't even fix simple Facebook status updates and fix the browser after two years on one device?!
    07-26-13 03:15 AM
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