08-29-13 11:19 AM
732 ... 1314151617 ...
tools
  1. costas1966's Avatar
    I feel for you guys too...I bought 4 PB's so, I feel your pain. But nevertheless, it still works, doesn't it?
    neefer likes this.
    07-18-13 10:31 PM
  2. FF22's Avatar
    This is why I have been saying "absent evidence of an intent to deceive".
    The problem with your request is that we either need an insider disclosure or a law suit and discovery where all of their internal emails and documents are subject to review. That is not likely to happen but would be one sure-fire way to obtain info one way or the other.
    07-18-13 10:38 PM
  3. FF22's Avatar
    The absolutely most accurate description. Now, maybe the haters can give it a bit of thought and realize that being let down due to technical and business decisions does not constitute "lies". Simply the fact that they tried and couldn't make it happen. Lets have the hate die already.
    There is still NO proof that there were overarching technical problems. We only have Thor saying that it did not run well. We have no idea how much effort they put into it, whether they tried a few different concepts or were easily discouraged. Sorry but you may let it go but others have as much right to continue their efforts to break through and maybe get some improvements.

    From Kevin's editorial or blog comments:

    "CEO Thorsten Heins made a commitment to no longer deliver any sub par BlackBerry products to market."

    So he left the playbook a sub par BB product that still had potential in that very state. Fix OS2 and the Browser. USB-to-go was supposedly already in the device - free it up - rooters got it working, can't bbry?
    07-18-13 10:46 PM
  4. costas1966's Avatar
    There is still NO proof that there were overarching technical problems. We only have Thor saying that it did not run well. We have no idea how much effort they put into it, whether they tried a few different concepts or were easily discouraged. Sorry but you may let it go but others have as much right to continue their efforts to break through and maybe get some improvements.

    From Kevin's editorial or blog comments:

    "CEO Thorsten Heins made a commitment to no longer deliver any sub par BlackBerry products to market."

    So he left the playbook a sub par BB product that still had potential in that very state. Fix OS2 and the Browser. USB-to-go was supposedly already in the device - free it up - rooters got it working, can't bbry?
    Quite honestly, I haven't given up complete hope on some other things coming to fruition...just not seeing BB10 on it.

    I don't believe he left a "sub-par" product on the table...the PB falls short in some features, excels in others. I bought mine for what it CAN do, not what it CAN'T.

    I agree with TH's sentiments...I wouldn't have released a product that would have damaged the BB name. (yes, yes, I know....the BB name is taking a hit already because they are "liars")...that argument makes no sense to me, since I believe they had full intentions to bring BB10 to the PB.

    I'm willing to bet they put quite a bit of effort into it, and only abandoned it after realizing it would only hurt BB, not help.

    I WOULD like to see a few updates to the existing OS, mind you....maybe we'll see them, maybe we won't.
    neefer likes this.
    07-18-13 10:53 PM
  5. lorax1284's Avatar
    Quite honestly, I haven't given up complete hope on some other things coming to fruition...just not seeing BB10 on it.

    ....

    I WOULD like to see a few updates to the existing OS, mind you....maybe we'll see them, maybe we won't.
    ...but the whole subject of this thread is not that BB10 isn't coming, that's been stated and there are significant technical obstacles to that... this thread is about the statements by key BlackBerry personnel that NO MORE DEVELOPMENT is being done... you are hopeful, still, despite such statements? I think you should start at the very beginning of this thread and read every message, and you'll see why people are upset: I for one said "oh well, didn't think so" when I heard the first RUMOURS that BB10 was beyond the capabilities of the PlayBook, so I was waiting to hear from BB that it would be some very stripped down PBOS update... but now we're told they aren't going to even TRY to do anything... and that, in a word "smarts" and yet, ironically, is very stupid from a business perspective, if you call alienating your absolutely BEST, MOST LOYAL, VANGUARD customers "stupid", which I do.
    arvind1983 likes this.
    07-18-13 11:09 PM
  6. costas1966's Avatar
    ...but the whole subject of this thread is not that BB10 isn't coming, that's been stated and there are significant technical obstacles to that... this thread is about the statements by key BlackBerry personnel that NO MORE DEVELOPMENT is being done... you are hopeful, still, despite such statements? I think you should start at the very beginning of this thread and read every message, and you'll see why people are upset: I for one said "oh well, didn't think so" when I heard the first RUMOURS that BB10 was beyond the capabilities of the PlayBook, so I was waiting to hear from BB that it would be some very stripped down PBOS update... but now we're told they aren't going to even TRY to do anything... and that, in a word "smarts" and yet, ironically, is very stupid from a business perspective, if you call alienating your absolutely BEST, MOST LOYAL, VANGUARD customers "stupid", which I do.
    I get what the thread is about, and I maintain that there never any lies spoken...intentions, based on what they knew at the time...but not lies. I run my own business, and on occasion I miss a deadline, or can't deliver on a promise, or I'm late, or whatever...it's called life, and circumstance.

    So, even though I've made a "promise" to my customer, there's 100% intent to follow through...it's just that sometimes circumstances change the outcome, and we try to reshuffle, reschedule, etc...

    This is why I believe I understand what BB has done...the intent was there, the desire was there...but the follow through didn't happen for a number of reasons.

    All I can say is if I, and other companies, had customers as unforgiving as some PB owners on this site, we would lose business daily. The flip side to that is that relationships and loyalty would go down the tubes, and it would be all based on lowest bid wins....I don't think I'd like to see that kind of world in business...relationships are too important.
    neefer likes this.
    07-18-13 11:36 PM
  7. msps's Avatar
    Can you prove the intension was there?
    Can you prove the desire was there?

    Your assumptions ' it wasn't lie' has no more merit that ' it was lie'

    You expect a proof they had intention to deceive. I'll challenge that. Provide a proof the was no such intension eg a couple of versions of the BB10 for PB made in the last months
    FF22 and arvind1983 like this.
    07-18-13 11:53 PM
  8. FF22's Avatar
    Can you prove the intension was there?
    Can you prove the desire was there?

    Your assumptions ' it wasn't lie' has no more merit that ' it was lie'

    You expect a proof they had intention to deceive. I'll challenge that. Provide a proof the was no such intension eg a couple of versions of the BB10 for PB made in the last months
    I agree. There have been visual leaks of everything else BB related while the bb10 phones were being developed and while alphas were running. Nothing in that vein in regard to the pb. Wow, they really did keep it well hidden under wraps. Not even miserable versions made any public appearance. Odd, that.
    arvind1983 and dannykavs like this.
    07-19-13 12:21 AM
  9. 312Lorden's Avatar
    Until I see a video of a beta version of BB10 running on the Playbook I'm going to call total BS that they had any team working on BB10 for the playbook.

    Is it because they didn't have the resources to execute these apps in native code for launch? If that's the case then I'm 99% willing to believe that they totally just scrapped the idea of working on bringing BB10 to playbook because they flat out lack the resources to do it.
    ______

    I am inclined to agree with this statement. Truly sad for PBs fate, but I will keep it.
    07-19-13 12:24 AM
  10. 312Lorden's Avatar
    I don't believe he left a "sub-par" product on the table...the PB falls short in some features, excels in others. I bought mine for what it CAN do, not what it CAN'T.



    I'm willing to bet they put quite a bit of effort into it, and only abandoned it after realizing it would only hurt BB, not help.

    I WOULD like to see a few updates to the existing OS, mind you....maybe we'll see them, maybe we won't.[/QUOTE]
    _

    Gotta agree with you.
    07-19-13 12:27 AM
  11. 312Lorden's Avatar
    I get what the thread is about, and I maintain that there never any lies spoken...intentions, based on what they knew at the time...but not lies. I run my own business, and on occasion I miss a deadline, or can't deliver on a promise, or I'm late, or whatever...it's called life, and circumstance.

    So, even though I've made a "promise" to my customer, there's 100% intent to follow through...it's just that sometimes circumstances change the outcome, and we try to reshuffle, reschedule, etc...

    This is why I believe I understand what BB has done...the intent was there, the desire was there...but the follow through didn't happen for a number of reasons.

    All I can say is if I, and other companies, had customers as unforgiving as some PB owners on this site, we would lose business daily. The flip side to that is that relationships and loyalty would go down the tubes, and it would be all based on lowest bid wins....I don't think I'd like to see that kind of world in business...relationships are too important.
    _____

    You are the voice of reason. Thanks for posting.
    07-19-13 12:29 AM
  12. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    I get what the thread is about, and I maintain that there never any lies spoken...intentions, based on what they knew at the time...but not lies. I run my own business, and on occasion I miss a deadline, or can't deliver on a promise, or I'm late, or whatever...it's called life, and circumstance.

    So, even though I've made a "promise" to my customer, there's 100% intent to follow through...it's just that sometimes circumstances change the outcome, and we try to reshuffle, reschedule, etc...

    This is why I believe I understand what BB has done...the intent was there, the desire was there...but the follow through didn't happen for a number of reasons.

    All I can say is if I, and other companies, had customers as unforgiving as some PB owners on this site, we would lose business daily. The flip side to that is that relationships and loyalty would go down the tubes, and it would be all based on lowest bid wins....I don't think I'd like to see that kind of world in business...relationships are too important.
    As a business man, when circumstances changed, delayed, reshuffle do you communicate with your clients? Do you apologize and explain the circumstances to your customers? BB did no such thing!!! The ceo just made an announcement to drop the update during Q1 report. No apology. The ceo only explain to a website, not the major media the reason why pb get no BB 10 update. The confirmation of no update on pb OS was an answer via a tweet question by BB representative. Again no media announcement.
    As a business person do you communicate to your client via other forms of communication except direct? This is a major corporation we are talking about, not your ma and pa store in your neighborhood. This is not the first time BB failed when it comes to basic communication. Is the company that bad in public relations or is it being arrogant?
    07-19-13 12:30 AM
  13. costas1966's Avatar
    As a business man, when circumstances changed, delayed, reshuffle do you communicate with your clients? Do you apologize and explain the circumstances to your customers? BB did no such thing!!! The ceo just made an announcement to drop the update during Q1 report. No apology. The ceo only explain to a website, not the major media the reason why pb get no BB 10 update. The confirmation of no update on pb OS was an answer via a tweet question by BB representative. Again no media announcement.
    As a business person do you communicate to your client via other forms of communication except direct? This is a major corporation we are talking about, not your ma and pa store in your neighborhood. This is not the first time BB failed when it comes to basic communication. Is the company that bad in public relations or is it being arrogant?
    Actually, yes I do communicate...apologize...make amends...whatever it takes...lol...in the bb situation, I see a company under the gun, trying to desperately follow through until the end, but unable to put forward a quality product, so the direction changes.

    This happens in business all the time...let's not forget,this company also has shareholders to report to...not just PB owners.

    Give it a bit of time, and you'll see the wisdom of the decision. I'm certain of it.
    neefer likes this.
    07-19-13 12:45 AM
  14. costas1966's Avatar
    This is why I have been saying "absent evidence of an intent to deceive". Yours are all examples of statements contrary to the actual facts at the time the statements were made. Thus lies.

    My examples were of statements made in agreement with the facts at the time the statements were made, ergo: Not lies. :-) A later change in circumstance does not retroactively turn a truthful-at-the-time statement magically into a lie.

    Since we have no evidence of an intent to deceive, claiming we were "lied to" is a stretch. We have no proof that when the statements were made, they were not indeed truthful at that moment in time. Granted we also have no proof that they WERE indeed truthful at the time the statements were made.

    I guess my ultimate point is: words have power. And y'all are using words to keep whipping yourselves into a perpetual frothing frenzy -- for no other purpose that I can see, other than the sake of being in a frothing frenzy.

    Your messaging to one another is "D00d those r@t b@$***** totally lied to us, intentionally deceived us, stole our money, were never actually even doing any of the work they said they were doing, knew a long time ago that we were not going to get what we were promised but kept promising it anyway" blah blah blah. All of this absent any proof (that I've seen) showing any single one of these claims to actually be true. That's emotional, not rational... and while perfectly reasonable for the first week or two... at this point it's kinda approaching the "conspiracy theory" level, the more it feeds upon itself.

    You're pissed, I get that. I'm entitled to be just as pissed as any of the rest of you -- seeing as I paid full retail price for a 64GB PB... and later almost full retail price for a second one. And if we get actual proof that they gave up long before they let on, and they intentionally kept telling us that all was well, in some kind of scheme to clear out inventory -- I'm totally there beside you, waving the torches and pitchforks and yelling "liar" at them.

    But absent that proof -- even though I'm out just as much money as any of the rest of you (in fact, more money than those of you who only have one PB) -- I choose to see things from the rational side of the coin, and not throw about loaded words like "liar" and "incompetent" and all the other emotionally charged words you're feeding each other with in order to keep the anger going. Some claim it's just semantics, but it's not. Words have nuance and underlying meaning. And y'all are choosing to use the most negative ones possible, rather than seeking out the most accurate ones possible in an attempt to actually achieve something other than an unending downward spiral.

    If even half of the totally pissed people redirected even half of that anger into action, then maybe you might be able to make something happen and get an update delivered to the PB. But based on how few messages are in Victor's thread attempting to do that very thing... it seems like y'all really don't want a solution -- you just want to complain.

    (And as an aside -- I still don't see what is so unrealistic about sending our PBs in for an upgrade. I worked for a company that found itself in this VERY position -- of having the latest software upgrade, for one of our enterprise-class appliances, exceed the space available on the older units. We solved the problem by offering three choices: don't upgrade; send the device in for a factory-upgrade at a reasonable fee for the service; and a do-it-yourself kit.)

    (And it's also probably why all you "liar" people tick me off so much. Unless you work in the industry, you really have no freaking clue what it's like to be a worker bee, busting your rump, working copious amounts of unpaid overtime, painstakingly exploring every conceivable possibility, hitting all sorts of technical roadblocks due to inherent limitations that just cannot be worked around no matter how hard you try, or how creative and out-of-the-box you get --- to ultimately coming to the conclusion that it just cannot be done given the limitations in front of you -- be that time, money, and/or resources. BBRY obviously came to a similar conclusion, and determined that all roads lead to nowhere good. If y'all really give a rat's patootie about the end result, then get over onto Victor's thread and try to come up with solutions and build a collective voice to show BBRY a road they hadn't considered, or considered but prematurely discarded.)

    (Long story even longer: seriously folks, p00p or get off the pot. What do you feel you're actually accomplishing by perpetual venting for the sake of venting? Actions speak louder than words. And so far it's only Victor and a small handful of others actually attempting any "action"!)
    Finally....in a nutshell. Good job Neefer. Maybe common sense DOES prevail.
    Last edited by costas1966; 07-19-13 at 03:32 AM.
    neefer likes this.
    07-19-13 12:55 AM
  15. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Sure... because I know a very good company that can replace their market of physical keyboards.... NOT

    Sent from my BB10 smartphone.
    Nokia did it for years.
    07-19-13 02:35 AM
  16. anon(4275744)'s Avatar
    If you bought it when it came out, you wouldn't have expected BB10 to be on it in the first place and now you're just complaining because you feel its justified.

    If you bought it when it was $150 or whatever the price was after it was announced that BB10 would becoming to the PlayBook, then you for the price, you got a great tablet.

    Some people just like to complain.
    Agreed. Complaining over and over and over again...
    I'd buy another playbook today, if the one I have quit working. It hasn't!
    No complaints here.


    From Zed to U via CB10
    07-19-13 03:13 AM
  17. uncle_numpty's Avatar
    Agreed. Complaining over and over and over again...
    I'd buy another playbook today, if the one I have quit working. It hasn't!
    No complaints here.


    From Zed to U via CB10
    But.....

    If you bought it at christmas or later as a brand new product ( not refurbished ) then you would expect that product to be supported at least through it's warranty period, and by support I mean updates not warranty repairs.

    Also, id like to say that all advertising for the playbook (including BBRY's own website) states a USB: Micro USB port, but it does not clarify that the USB port can't be used as a full USB port, which is debatable advertising.

    And while i'm on advertising, BBRY also offers the following on their website 'Bring your devices together with BlackBerry Bridge Edit a document or browse a webpage on your BlackBerry smartphone and view it all on a larger display. BlackBerry Bridge lets you switch screens easily by opening that app on your PlayBook. Your smartphone can also act as a keyboard and mouse for your tablet.' - Now please correct me here is this statement wholly truthfull if I have a Z10, Q10 or Q5 BBRY Smartphone ? If it isn't then that's also false advertising.
    FF22 and Chrysalis1156 like this.
    07-19-13 03:40 AM
  18. duty14's Avatar
    Lol... Fanboys remain fanboys... How much do you need to get disappointed and back stabbed until you wake up? This is not a small firm witch if it didn't deliver they disappoint and lose a few clients...
    This is A BIG COMPANY in witch if they don't deliver they disappoint and lose a BIG number of clients. And at this moment BBRY NEEDS not to lose clients and needs to bring to abord the ship as many clients as possible so they stop losing money over and over again.
    I don't care about the stupid debate of what's it called, lie or not, or incompetence or misleading, or false promises or whatever you want., and those stupid examples of if its a lie or not. Open your eyes fanboys. This is not the first time this is happening by them. C'mon. For every time you gonna say its ok cause you are a fanboy and all what they do is ok with you? That is not helping... And arguing that is not a lie with the disappointed customers and its not a big deal what BBRY did, than you are wrong. We paid money for that product. And for some of us those money count. If I spend money on a tablet i want it to use it with its full capabilities not false promises and excuses and dreams. I didn't paid with ''dream money'' or ''promised money'' or ''not lie money'' .If you see that Apple does a thing like this to its customers you laugh and glad you are not apple customer and won't buy in the future an Apple product. But IT won't happen at serious companies and cause they care about their reputation and brand and a thing like this will seriously affect that.
    I researched and buyed this Playbook tablet (and went to all this trouble of buying it abroad and shipping it and paying a 3rd company for this) because of their statements and its future... I don't want to have it around the house... I payed money to use it as much as possible with full potential and capabilites. So yes now that i find out after 2 years that i buyed a tablet unfinished and they won't do what they stated or promised, now i think its normal to feel betrayed, disappointed, frustrated and i think i have the wright to rage about this, esspecially on PB forums because i can't go into their office and complain now can I?
    This is not a good strategy by BBRY and we all know it. If they can't deliver then don't promise to 1 million buyers or whatever is the total number of PB buyers. You don't disappoint just a couple, you disappoint a lot of them and maybe lose them as clients. And at this moment they can't afford that.
    And lets face it... They are way back from the competition and still losing more and more clients as time passes because their products are limited in a world where technology advances and its ruthless with who doesn't keeps the pace. And at this moment BBRY only has simple phones, with modest gear under the hood, VERY VERY little apps compared to competitors and now even losing its credibility to its customers and to the rest of the world...
    That was not a Good Business Choice from the beginning of the promises and now that they won't even support a 2 year unfinished product to its customers its OUTRAGEOUS!!!
    This company is losing customers by the day to competitors and with this its losing a whole lot more now... and in the end will remain only you fanboys making excuses over and over again similar to what you are doing now... Who gives a f_ck what their statements are called.. Lies or not lies... who cares? They didn't deliver what they said they will and we payed money for their statements and stood by them in their difficult times and now this is how they repay us?
    SO you do that fanboys... Excuse BBRY every time.. cause its not the first time... And in the end will remain only you fanboys as customers and then you will see you can't support this company financial enough to stay afloat in this high competitive industry.
    07-19-13 04:25 AM
  19. duty14's Avatar
    And one more thing...
    I have trouble believing BBRY CEO Heins, that the problem of bringing BB10 to PlayBook is RAM of the PLAYBOOK. 1GB of RAM IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.
    A 1 GB RAM computer can run WINDOWS 7. I don't think BB10 is more complicated than windows 7 os, or more complicated than IOS of Apple that works on IPhone, IPod, Ipad with 512 RAM.
    They should stop the bs if they care about their customers and esspecially you fanboys who defends their bs and lies blindingly...
    07-19-13 04:54 AM
  20. Ragwan's Avatar
    I thought this thread is about the lack of any future updates/fixes, not a lesson in the definition of the word "lie"?

    Whether Thor lied or not doesn't really matter much to me at this point, nor does the fact there isn't a OS10 even if it's stripped down.

    What mattered was hopefully BB would have pushed out some minor updates and bugs fixes which would have fixed most of the problems with the PB for the last 2yrs, especially after not being able to streamline the OS10. Would have thought that would be the back up plan, but apparently it's cost prohibitive.

    I have to wonder, what did they meant by 'continuing support'? If it's to fix and replace PBs, wouldn't that be as cost prohibitive as well? Likewise with the upcoming release of the OS7 phone for the emerging/developing countries, wouldn't pushing out the 99XX phones be cheaper?

    In ending, since I might catch some flak, if the PB is truly discontinued in BB'S eyes, then what's the harm in making it open? If it's because some gov'ments and agencies are using the PBs, who to say they're already shopping for new tech as we speak, or even have already tweaked them. If because of BB's securities, meh, like I said before, they discontinued it, and as a plus, BB could just drop the repair and replacement of modified PBs, and save their money for making appearances @ F1 races and maybe help Alicia Keys get more laser and fireworks for her concerts.

    P.S: this isn't a whine, Thor bashing, arm chair ceoing post. What's done is done (rather poorly imho), as I said before, I'm over it. I'll continue to use my PB no matter what.
    Last edited by Ragwan; 07-19-13 at 05:58 AM. Reason: Minor clarification to avoid being stereotyped by certain individuals.
    duty14, FF22 and Chrysalis1156 like this.
    07-19-13 05:46 AM
  21. uncle_numpty's Avatar
    In ending, since I might catch some flak, if the PB is truly discontinued in BB'S eyes, then what's the harm in making it open? If it's because some gov'ments and agencies are using the PBs, who to say they're already shopping for new tech as we speak, or even have already tweaked them.
    This is a good point and many governments use open source products and some even take Linux distribuions and harden them for their own use.

    I don't think open sourcing 2.1 would be a bad move by BBRY - after all it doesn't contain proprietry code for BBM does it ?

    I'd also like to ask - has BBRY officialy discontinued the PB ? I've not seen a official announcement that it's end of life anywhere....
    07-19-13 06:18 AM
  22. duty14's Avatar
    Officialy no but all they said in general isn't official... Anyway the thread started with Alec Saunders confirmation that they will no longer support PB anymore.( updates or anything else). Everything is not official... and even the official stuff its not all true so its a relevant subject if its official or not... They are doing what they want..
    07-19-13 06:28 AM
  23. JasW's Avatar
    I'd also like to ask - has BBRY officialy discontinued the PB ? I've not seen a official announcement that it's end of life anywhere....
    I'm not sure BBRY or any other device manufacturer always goes so far as to "officially" announce that they have discontinued a particular device -- they just stop making them, and the remaining stock dwindles. I don't think anyone here seriously believes the PB is still being manufactured.

    How long BBRY will support the PB with even minor OS updates is another story. I don't think their history of continued support for handhelds would be analogous, since the PB is without a doubt the redheaded bastrd stepchild of doom in the BB universe. What you've got is all that you'll ever have. I was glad to get rid of mine and move on to a vastly more functional tab.
    FF22 and Chrysalis1156 like this.
    07-19-13 08:39 AM
  24. duty14's Avatar
    Lucky you... I believed on BB like a fool until now....
    arvind1983 likes this.
    07-19-13 08:50 AM
  25. quackquack147's Avatar
    -> lies from blackberry is best explained here. enjoy.
    thanks!
    -paul
    07-19-13 09:54 AM
732 ... 1314151617 ...

Similar Threads

  1. OCR translator for Blackberry 10
    By fbloise in forum BlackBerry 10 Apps
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-17-13, 03:38 AM
  2. How to check Blackberry Q10 application history?
    By iasim11 in forum BlackBerry Q10
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-17-13, 02:25 AM
  3. BlackBerry Travel has the potential of being Priceline of Mobile
    By Chicago777Guy in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-16-13, 05:48 PM
  4. Exposnation with BlackBerry!!
    By dalight13 in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-16-13, 01:53 PM
  5. Blackberry z10 deal $380 unlocked
    By Zaqq in forum BlackBerry Z10
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-16-13, 09:43 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD