08-29-13 11:19 AM
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  1. Gooseberry Falls's Avatar
    Everything you've ever expressed in your life has been perfectly accurate? You've never been wrong about anything? It happens. The only person who never makes a mistake is the person who never actually does anything.

    A lie is a deliberate attempt to deceive. You know something to be true, but say that it isn't. Now, you can accuse Heins of lying, on the assumption that he continued to commit to the PB update even after the decision been made to cancel it internally. And that's totally possible. Personally, I don't believe it, just because Heins has actually done a pretty good job of being honest and transparent since taking over as CEO.

    I think that sometime in April was when the decision was actually made. And I say "April" because one of the BB community managers had been reaffirming the commitment in BB's official support forum until then. After the decision was made, they just shut up about the PlayBook completely until the Q1 Earnings Call.

    If you want to get really picky, you might say that BB's claim that their tablet strategy "hadn't changed" through May and June might have been a little disingenuous, but it falls well within the realm of corporate "message management".
    As I said, you won't convince anyone here. But if you wish to be the expert on lying, please be my guest.
    07-17-13 10:21 PM
  2. lorax1284's Avatar
    I think if they kept 5 BB10 developers on PlayBook OS 2.x for, say, 3 months, they could fold in a new Webkit engine, possibly even add the Android 4.2 runtime (if that's not a core part of the problem with BB10 on the PB) and maybe some bug fixes. Bringing back Bridge would require new tech in BB10 on the handhelds, and when that BB10 update goes out to handhelds, an App update for the Bridge app on the PlayBook (not a core OS update, just an app) would have to be delivered.

    I believe this is a reasonable thing to DEMAND by PlayBook customers, and I think it's incredibly UNREASONABLE for BB to not deliver that.

    I would ask that someone explain why an update to PlayBook OS 2.1 of this nature is absolutely impossible, when the changes to PlayBook OS 2.1 would be pretty modest.

    I think it's not too late for BB to issue a mea culpa on totally cancelling ALL further development on the PlayBook: they need to just say "we goofed, we were too hasty, we shouldn't have let you down, and here's what we're going to do in a PlayBook OS 2.2 update, which will be the last..." then describe the list of things that they CAN do which must include "...and we will work on restoring the Bridge functionality in BB10, then issue an updated Bridge app for the PlayBook so that you can use your PlayBook to interact with data on the BB10 handheld, just like you could with BBOS7, only better, because now you can get to your personal cloud through your BB10 device."

    I'd be happy with that, and I think most PlayBook customers would actually be happy with that. Those still demanding "the impossible" i.e. BB10 on PlayBook, would probably have to classified as unreasonable at that point, despite their perception that Thor "lied".

    But, without the modest update I describe above, the word for what I feel for BB management right now is "contempt" and, if you check my post history on CrackBerry.com, you will see what a stalwart defender of BB I have been... but not in this case... and without overselling my dissatisfaction, I WILL be paying a LOT more attention to competitive platforms, more than I do already.
    07-17-13 10:22 PM
  3. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    They made promises for people buy the last PlayBook unitys like crazy.
    Lets see, if you had a store, and you knew that your store was going to be closed in a near future, would you try to sell all your products or let they rot in the trash?
    Obviously sell.
    BlackBerry made these promises just for that, for stock-cleaning and getting money from that, they know that consumers can't do anyting with they, and if a consumer ask for lawsuit, they will pay a bunch of money + a new phone and done, problem solved.
    BlackBerry is smart, users are dumb to keep complaining about this piece of black cow-sht-made-brick.
    Instead of holding this brick, dump it and buy another device, i recommend Apple, there they update 2 years old devices.
    Good idea. Listen up Thor! Stop actively discussing and considering compensating playbook owners. Subsidize the playbook owners for Ipad 4 or Surface Pro or Samsung Galaxy note. I mean you already pizz them off enough might as well send their way to your competitors and never be heard again. Believe me it's way cheaper and damage control at the same time.
    arvind1983 likes this.
    07-17-13 10:30 PM
  4. arvind1983's Avatar
    I just sold my 16gb playbook for $200.00 on Craigslist. After reading today that there will be no more upgrades, I feel much better of my decision. On to my next non blackberry toy.
    I have a 16GB too can I sell it on Craiglist? but I am in Singapore!
    Yann Blanes likes this.
    07-17-13 10:38 PM
  5. joshua_sx1's Avatar
    PRECISELY. They paused development of OS2 fixes and enhancements because they were going to move the pb to BB10. Now that they've dropped that idea, they've dropped what originally was also promised.
    We have been played...
    :-(

    Posted via Z10
    Yann Blanes and kraschute like this.
    07-17-13 10:55 PM
  6. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Send me a refund of >$2000 I spent with BB this year and I'm gone as soon as the cheque clears


    Ebaying means 60-70% loss after just 6 months
    Thorsten Heins 31 December 2013

    We continue to evaluate our BlackBerry10 strategy, but we are not making any shifts in that strategy in the short term. When we do have new information, we will share. On Friday.
    December 2013?
    07-17-13 11:06 PM
  7. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I think if they kept 5 BB10 developers on PlayBook OS 2.x for, say, 3 months, they could fold in a new Webkit engine, possibly even add the Android 4.2 runtime (if that's not a core part of the problem with BB10 on the PB) and maybe some bug fixes. Bringing back Bridge would require new tech in BB10 on the handhelds, and when that BB10 update goes out to handhelds, an App update for the Bridge app on the PlayBook (not a core OS update, just an app) would have to be delivered.

    I believe this is a reasonable thing to DEMAND by PlayBook customers, and I think it's incredibly UNREASONABLE for BB to not deliver that.
    "Reasonable/unreasonable" are judgements. Since you don't know for sure what challenges BB faced in completing this upgrade you're actually in no position to make those judgements. BB evidently came to the conclusion that they had less to lose by disappointing PlayBook owners than by spending the resources it would take to get the upgrade to work. That may even work out to be the wrong decision. Time will tell.

    And I've made the point elsewhere, I'm sure there were business decisions ON TOP of the technical decisions. Some developers might have been uncooperative. There may have been legal conflicts that couldn't easily be settled. Who knows?

    I would ask that someone explain why an update to PlayBook OS 2.1 of this nature is absolutely impossible, when the changes to PlayBook OS 2.1 would be pretty modest.
    That one's easy: there's absolutely ZERO business case for it. All PlayBooks have been sold or otherwise disposed of, so the company wasn't going to see any further sales revenue. Yes, there's the "keep users interested in the ecosystem" argument, but a couple of million users are barely worth maintaining an ecosystem FOR.

    It would have been done pretty much for the exclusive reason of maintaining goodwill among current PlayBook users. As such a user myself, sure, it would have been nice, but at some point that value proposition hit a point where it just didn't work anymore.

    I think it's not too late for BB to issue a mea culpa on totally cancelling ALL further development on the PlayBook: they need to just say "we goofed, we were too hasty, we shouldn't have let you down, and here's what we're going to do in a PlayBook OS 2.2 update, which will be the last..." then describe the list of things that they CAN do which must include "...and we will work on restoring the Bridge functionality in BB10, then issue an updated Bridge app for the PlayBook so that you can use your PlayBook to interact with data on the BB10 handheld, just like you could with BBOS7, only better, because now you can get to your personal cloud through your BB10 device."
    I believe Thor when he said that canceling the PB update was one of the hardest decisions he's had to make. I don't think it was made in haste, and it reflects on his own personal credibility because he personally made the commitment. If the issues were so easy to resolve I think the company would have done its best to actually resolve them.

    I'd be happy with that, and I think most PlayBook customers would actually be happy with that. Those still demanding "the impossible" i.e. BB10 on PlayBook, would probably have to classified as unreasonable at that point, despite their perception that Thor "lied".

    But, without the modest update I describe above, the word for what I feel for BB management right now is "contempt" and, if you check my post history on CrackBerry.com, you will see what a stalwart defender of BB I have been... but not in this case... and without overselling my dissatisfaction, I WILL be paying a LOT more attention to competitive platforms, more than I do already.
    While I'm more "sad" than "contemptuous" myself, I completely understand why you (or anyone else) would feel that way. This is something we were all hoping for, and BlackBerry repeatedly reaffirmed the commitment. It may not be a "lie", or even a "broken promise" (since the word "promise" was never used), but it IS a failed commitment. And, I'm keeping my eyes open for a deal on a Windows RT tablet...
    rampagingpanda likes this.
    07-17-13 11:14 PM
  8. Jiggy1971's Avatar
    I'd pay for an update to the Playbook if it helped get continued support. Hell what's $20.00. multiply that by 2.5 million and what do you have? $50 million smackers. I think a good reason to make some updates. It would more than pay for a team to work on the project. I would go $30, or $40 so I would have to get another $400.00 tablet that becomes unsupported. Raise that question to Saunders.
    07-17-13 11:22 PM
  9. kevinnugent's Avatar
    [QUOTE=Thunderbuck;8843455 And, I'm keeping my eyes open for a deal on a Windows RT tablet...[/QUOTE]

    Interestingly enough, the price of Surface tablets just dropped about 40% here in Australia. Especially the RT variant.
    07-17-13 11:24 PM
  10. kevinnugent's Avatar
    I'd pay for an update to the Playbook if it helped get continued support. Hell what's $20.00. multiply that by 2.5 million and what do you have? $50 million smackers. I think a good reason to make some updates. It would more than pay for a team to work on the project. I would go $30, or $40 so I would have to get another $400.00 tablet that becomes unsupported. Raise that question to Saunders.
    I'm not sure it's an issue with money. I think the issue is the hardware just can't support the OS.
    07-17-13 11:30 PM
  11. ssbtech's Avatar
    Yet BlackBerry is putting the R&D into another OS7 device...

    I'll likely never buy another tablet regardless of the vendor.
    07-17-13 11:31 PM
  12. quackquack147's Avatar
    They made promises for people buy the last PlayBook unitys like crazy.
    Lets see, if you had a store, and you knew that your store was going to be closed in a near future, would you try to sell all your products or let they rot in the trash?
    Obviously sell.
    BlackBerry made these promises just for that, for stock-cleaning and getting money from that, they know that consumers can't do anyting with they, and if a consumer ask for lawsuit, they will pay a bunch of money + a new phone and done, problem solved.
    BlackBerry is smart, users are dumb to keep complaining about this piece of black cow-sht-made-brick.
    Instead of holding this brick, dump it and buy another device, i recommend Apple, there they update 2 years old devices.
    *i am not a PR GUY, so i cant speak much. this answer will be crisp like how you want. this is not geek talk so my limited knowledge tells me this. this is not a tech write up, that i can type pages after pages which no one cares to read, or finds it utter BS and boring. this is reality, less you squeeze the lime less bitter it gets.*

    Blackberry is a company which needs to make money to give salary to its employees and also a cash reserve incase they go OOB with the current scenario. which is why they need to sell these unsold pieces like crazy, its nothing new in that. this is the technique with almost every company.

    there are 100's of companies making hundred of promises and 100 unfulfilled and/or broken.
    if a customer sues, the customer will most like get raped by a cunning blackberry lawyer, a new phone? yes its called lollypop up the customer. money saved and problem solved.

    blackberry is smart, of course and we are dumb, and its our duty to complain and their job to ignore. period. you are not a good businessman, or you dont know business culture.

    instead of that crap by another crap? all crap are same. and how you know apple will not crap out? OS X mountain lion is the perfect example it will not run on older Macs. pretty much same as blackberry. added piles of dung crap and then tell a macbook owner. oh you dont have i5 and you dont have 4 gigs of ram, Mountain lion wont work.

    conclusion : stop complaining, shut up and hack! as a customer and end user? this is your only escape route. care to opt it? else join the rest and keep bleeding. period.

    thanks!
    -paul
    07-18-13 12:55 AM
  13. Jiggy1971's Avatar
    Yet BlackBerry is putting the R&D into another OS7 device...

    I'll likely never buy another tablet regardless of the vendor.
    That's what Heins is saying will happen. Huh

    Posted via Jiggy's Z10
    07-18-13 01:03 AM
  14. ukmight's Avatar
    2) There are many indications that PB can actually handle BB10 just fine. For example, a number of people have sideloaded BB10 to Playbook and achieved acceptable levels of performance. There is no reason why Blackberry can't leak the last build of BB10 for Playbook and let US decide if we want it or not.
    I think it is a case of brand management and BlackBerry's interest lie in protecting the BB10 brand rather than the PlayBook brand. Many who tried loading the BB10 OS on the PlayBook commented that the OS felt smoother (with glitches of course) the the PBOS. But BlackBerry may not have been able to bring the performance at par or close to how good it is on the BB10 phones. This might have invited criticism for the BB10 platform and they just decided to play smart since there are frankly very few PlayBook users anyway and unsatisfying them was not big enough for them in comparison to spoiling the reputation for BB10.
    BlackBerry promised BB10 on PlayBook as they first assumed 1 GB RAM was good enough for the OS but I am sure they realized their mistake around the time they started shipping Dev Alpha B devices with higher RAM. They technically don't even support the Dev Alpha A devices as of now.
    BlackBerry's decision is actually smart because you have not seen any tech site criticise BlackBerry for this decision apart from the BlackBerry blogs and forums. This is because noone really cares for the PlayBook anymore as it was a failed product. With its current limitations to extract higher profits, there is little BlackBerry can do. The PlayBook is a loss making product for BlackBerry. Period. You first criticized them for not releasing the BB10 OS and have now lowered your expectations to just a regular update and very soon everything will be forgotten since there are very few people onto this to provide traction to the issue.

    I myself don't like the decision as I bought another PlayBook towards the end of last year to try out the BB10 OS on a tablet. But have got to move on.
    07-18-13 01:07 AM
  15. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Interestingly enough, the price of Surface tablets just dropped about 40% here in Australia. Especially the RT variant.
    Yes, I've noticed the Win RT tabs are coming down. I actually really like the Surface tabs. I'd been thinking about a larger one anyway (the 7" PB is just too small to read magazines on Zinio).

    And, realistically, there are more key apps available. I've been using the 8.1 preview on my home system and I'm definitely getting used to it.
    07-18-13 01:19 AM
  16. FF22's Avatar
    Everything you've ever expressed in your life has been perfectly accurate? You've never been wrong about anything? It happens. The only person who never makes a mistake is the person who never actually does anything.

    A lie is a deliberate attempt to deceive. You know something to be true, but say that it isn't. Now, you can accuse Heins of lying, on the assumption that he continued to commit to the PB update even after the decision been made to cancel it internally. And that's totally possible. Personally, I don't believe it, just because Heins has actually done a pretty good job of being honest and transparent since taking over as CEO.

    I think that sometime in April was when the decision was actually made. And I say "April" because one of the BB community managers had been reaffirming the commitment in BB's official support forum until then. After the decision was made, they just shut up about the PlayBook completely until the Q1 Earnings Call.

    If you want to get really picky, you might say that BB's claim that their tablet strategy "hadn't changed" through May and June might have been a little disingenuous, but it falls well within the realm of corporate "message management".
    In other words a LIE! Calling it "Message Management" takes chutzpah. Defending it takes additional chutzpah.
    07-18-13 01:23 AM
  17. quackquack147's Avatar
    Everything you've ever expressed in your life has been perfectly accurate? You've never been wrong about anything? It happens. The only person who never makes a mistake is the person who never actually does anything.

    A lie is a deliberate attempt to deceive. You know something to be true, but say that it isn't. Now, you can accuse Heins of lying, on the assumption that he continued to commit to the PB update even after the decision been made to cancel it internally. And that's totally possible. Personally, I don't believe it, just because Heins has actually done a pretty good job of being honest and transparent since taking over as CEO.

    I think that sometime in April was when the decision was actually made. And I say "April" because one of the BB community managers had been reaffirming the commitment in BB's official support forum until then. After the decision was made, they just shut up about the PlayBook completely until the Q1 Earnings Call.

    If you want to get really picky, you might say that BB's claim that their tablet strategy "hadn't changed" through May and June might have been a little disingenuous, but it falls well within the realm of corporate "message management".
    we had a similar scam in india by a company called sathyam. it took indian govt 3 years to catch them red handed. they had no money yet they showed high value returns in their balance sheet books. and then it was dissolved and some other company took over. i wonder when the canadian government going to wake up or had the company bought each and every minister. this is like the enron scam.
    and i am surprised you are defending his actions. wow! simply wow! awesome!
    hats off sir!
    thanks!
    -paul
    07-18-13 01:29 AM
  18. ukmight's Avatar
    we had a similar scam in india by a company called sathyam. it took indian govt 3 years to catch them red handed. they had no money yet they showed high value returns in their balance sheet books. and then it was dissolved and some other company took over. i wonder when the canadian government going to wake up or had the company bought each and every minister. this is like the enron scam.
    and i am surprised you are defending his actions. wow! simply wow! awesome!
    hats off sir!
    thanks!
    -paul
    Really dude! Satyam/Maytas? How?

    How did you make the correlation?

    Posted via CB10
    07-18-13 01:32 AM
  19. quackquack147's Avatar
    Really dude! Satyam/Maytas? How?

    How did you make the correlation?

    Posted via CB10
    Accounting scandal of 2009
    Main article: Satyam accounting scandal

    In addition to other controversies involving Satyam, on 7 January 2009, Chairman Raju resigned after publicly announcing his involvement in a massive accounting fraud.

    and here lies, to sell off devices which were stockpiled. isnt it a fraud? make fake promises and then back off when all sold out. and then cut of the basic support. so thats not fraud?

    Mahindra Satyam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    i never said its identical. i said similar. raju adjusted the balance sheets and he made a fool of the customers, you and me. is it okay?
    thanks!
    -paul

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud
    so heins and his teams = bunch of black suit corp frauds! right?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Claims_Act
    and his promised to boost sales is a false claims act! right?
    07-18-13 01:40 AM
  20. Yann Blanes's Avatar
    I have a 16GB too can I sell it on Craiglist? but I am in Singapore!
    I have a fresh new 64 also in SG , if you sold your one please tell me where i will follow you ;-)
    arvind1983 likes this.
    07-18-13 01:49 AM
  21. ukmight's Avatar
    Accounting scandal of 2009
    Main article: Satyam accounting scandal

    In addition to other controversies involving Satyam, on 7 January 2009, Chairman Raju resigned after publicly announcing his involvement in a massive accounting fraud.

    and here lies, to sell off devices which were stockpiled. isnt it a fraud? make fake promises and then back off when all sold out. and then cut of the basic support. so thats not fraud?

    Mahindra Satyam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    i never said its identical. i said similar. raju adjusted the balance sheets and he made a fool of the customers, you and me. is it okay?
    thanks!
    -paul

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud
    so heins and his teams = bunch of black suit corp frauds! right?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Claims_Act
    and his promised to boost sales is a false claims act! right?
    Not the best of comparisons. Fraud or no Fraud is a different debate altogether. A litigation could have solved the debate but everyone knows this is not enough to be defined as a fraud. Disappointing their loyalest of customers. Yes.
    Anyway. Get onto your jtagging.

    Posted via CB10
    07-18-13 01:52 AM
  22. quackquack147's Avatar
    Not the best of comparisons. Fraud or no Fraud is a different debate altogether. A litigation could have solved the debate but everyone knows this is not enough to be defined as a fraud. Disappointing their loyalest of customers. Yes.
    Anyway. Get onto your jtagging.

    Posted via CB10
    you are right. i am a techie and i am not meant for this crap. i rather help the community than make their life even more miserable.
    i know its not the best comparison. but was close and techniques were sort of similar. and you are absolutely right. i rather get bashed by xsacha or nickmaster or gran pc for making stupid mistakes when i am doing the debug. i am not meant to do what i am doing here.
    its just when a fraud id defended as a legit business call makes me loose my systolic and dyastolic and fsck ya jtag, lets settle scores here with punches and kicks (the recieving end is RIM/Blackberry) and not crackberry fellow sufferers. thanks for pointing me the right direction.
    for me when situation is like this? i preffer riot and violence than science and peace.
    walking out of this discusson. it will not help me with jtag and users will have to suffer even more.
    thanks for the right direction.
    thanks!
    -paul
    ukmight likes this.
    07-18-13 01:58 AM
  23. Speedygi's Avatar
    ...And some people just like to whine and complain like 5 year olds. GROW UP and except the fact that companies lie and deceive their customers to make more money every day.
    I got over that...it wasn't easy but I got over that

    Posted via CB10
    07-18-13 02:09 AM
  24. kraschute's Avatar
    This thread is clearly off of the rails. You guys need to keep the insults, flaming, trolling, name calling, etc out of it. MANY posts have been removed already, lets not keep that trend up shall we?


    As for the PlayBook, if you have legal recourse in your area, and justification, why not take that route? It would be a hard sell on that I am sure, but if you are truly upset, there are ways (other than making ridiculous posts) to address that. I am not saying you do not have a right to vent, but what I am saying is you need to follow forum rules and policy. Consider this a warning.
    So you want to say us we should p. o. in a moderate way and not bother this forum anymore with our venting about BBRY and the Playbook? This is crazy! What else do you expect people to write in these specific PB forums? That we're still happy with the unfixed bugs of OS 2.1?
    What drive people nuts here is that complaining about BBRY seems to be only allowed to a certain degree.
    07-18-13 02:31 AM
  25. msps's Avatar
    What's this about "July"? The announcement was made as part of the quarterly earnings call on June 28th.

    And here's what the corporate message was: "At the present time we have no changes to announce in our tablet strategy". I will agree, this is corporate double-speak, but hardly out of the ordinary. If the decision was made in April (as I suspect), I'm not sure why they left the actual announcement so long. It could be they were afraid that disgruntled users might disrupt BlackBerry World in May, right when the company wanted to project the most positive face they could to the world. This strategy obviously backfired, since many were concerned about the PlayBook's lack of mention at that conference.
    Sorry it was late at night. I edited my post.
    Of course I meant JUNE 2013.
    Few weeks before 28th earning call.
    I do not care what motives were.
    He lied for months.

    The apologist try to convince me he did not lie in January.
    I take it in good faith but... there is absolutely no way to explain later statements.

    Corporate double speak?
    I call it a single speak LIE

    Remember end of MAY BB Mexico tweets confirming BB10 for PB?


    Folks from Mexico may have said too much at the time and tt was removed
    because BB head-quoter KNEW at the time it was already canceled
    and the correct message was meant to be:

    "nothing changed in our strategy blahblahblah"
    FF22 likes this.
    07-18-13 04:00 AM
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