08-29-13 10:19 AM
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  1. flyingsolid's Avatar
    Especially since it happened like 5 days ago (even longer if you figured that would be the case after they announced no BB10) and only now that it's being spread around do people suddenly give a damn again lol.
    Oh no, I, and am sure many others, gave a damn from the first moment I turned on the Playbook till end of life was stamped. Let that be known. I think what you are seeing is just an overdue response to pent up demand for an OS update and a bit of reliability concerns.
    07-17-13 04:39 PM
  2. Gooseberry Falls's Avatar
    How can iOS7 run on 512 MB and the "super efficient" BB10 can't do it on double that? I call them on the technical limitations.

    My friend at RIM has BB10 running on his PlayBook "quite well".
    I am tending to agree that tech/hardware limitations was not the reason. They just did not want to throw any more money at it.
    Is your friend part of the PB BB10 development team? Maybe he should be?
    07-17-13 05:04 PM
  3. dannykavs's Avatar
    Until I see a video of a beta version of BB10 running on the Playbook I'm going to call total BS that they had any team working on BB10 for the playbook.

    Can anyone explain to me why the settings and phone app were written in AIR for the BB10 phones? Is it because they didn't have the resources to execute these apps in native code for launch? If that's the case then I'm 99% willing to believe that they totally just scrapped the idea of working on bringing BB10 to playbook because they flat out lack the resources to do it.
    FF22, dphjeff, EchoesFX and 1 others like this.
    07-17-13 05:09 PM
  4. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Say I am in a room with no windows. You come in and tell me the sky outside is red. It is actually blue. I email my friend and tell him the sky outside is red, fully believing it to be the truth. But it is not the truth. It is a lie. I did not intend to deceive or mislead my friend, but that does not negate the fact that I told him a lie. Where the lie originated or the intent of the person telling the lie does not change the fact that it is a lie.
    What you describe isn't a lie at all. "Truth" is an ethical construct, not a factual one.

    If you say something in good faith that is ultimately proven wrong, you are inaccurate, but not dishonest.

    It's only a "lie" if you tell people the sky is red when you already know it isn't.

    From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10
    neefer likes this.
    07-17-13 05:21 PM
  5. ubeda92's Avatar
    Pies and Playbooks for those who find benefit in mixing these concepts.

    Two twins have been managing a restaurant for many years

    They decide to implement a full-course dinner special (“dinner special”), at a price as high as any full-course dinner specials offered by their competitors.

    The dinner special is a disaster. Courses are poorly prepared or items listed on the full-course special menu are often missing. The service is poor. Etc.

    The twins leave that restaurant, receiving a generous termination package from the owners.

    One member of their management staff, Thorsten Jagoff, is chosen by the owners to be the new CEO of the restaurant.

    Thorsten Jagoff drops the price of the dinner special considerably in order create more business regarding that special.

    Around the same time, Thorsten Jagoff decides to cut costs by laying off many of the cooks and bakers at the restaurant.

    Thorsten Jagoff then repeatedly states publicly that EVERYONE who purchases a dinner special will, by the end of the following year (2013), receive one of the “World’s Greatest Cherry Pies,” to be prepared by the restaurant.

    At the beginning of 2013, Thorsten Jagoff repeats his promise that EVERYONE who purchases or has purchased a dinner special will, by the end of 2013, receive one of the World’s Greatest Cherry Pies.

    Many people buy dinner specials and many of those people who buy those dinner specials do so because they are aware of and believe Thorsten Jagoff’s promise that they will eventually receive one of the World’s Greatest Cherry Pies.

    Meanwhile, the staff Thorsten Jagoff has assigned to produce the World’s Greatest Cherry Pie fails in this mission. Primary reasons may include one or more of the following: (a) Thorsten Jagoff not assigning enough staff members to the mission; (b) Thorsten Jagoff assigning insufficiently skilled staff members to the mission (which may be a variation of (a)); and (c) Thorsten Jagoff not providing the tools, ingredients, and/or money necessary for the mission’s successful completion.

    Around mid-2013, Thorsten Jagoff and his staff announce that they aren’t capable of producing the World’s Greatest Cherry Pie or even a cherry pie that comes close to satisfying that moniker. So Thorsten Jagoff will break his repeated promise to provide an excellent cherry pie--even to those previous customers who bought dinner specials in reliance on Thorsten Jagoff’s abovementioned promises.

    Furthermore, Thorsten Jaggoff and his staff additionally state that the restaurant will make no effort to provide a substitute for the World’s Greatest Cherry Pie of comparable value.

    No excellent apple pie.

    No excellent rhubarb pie.

    No excellent lemon cake.

    No excellent chocolate cake.

    Nothing of comparable value.

    The most Thorsten Jagoff and his minions will do for you is toss you a couple of past-due-date stale crackers.

    In the above scenario, would Thorsten Jagoff have created some legal liability for himself and/or the restaurant?

    In most, if not all, U.S. jurisdictions, the answer would be affirmative.
    ljfong and playbook_swiper1 like this.
    07-17-13 05:29 PM
  6. Bolderholder's Avatar
    My PlayBook...been rendered to just another device for preloaded movies for airplane rides, watching flash content...can't think of anything else right now.

    Thank you BlackBerry. I really hope bb10's real potential emerges faster and better as a result of freeing up all those resources to focus on just the OS.
    OMGitworks likes this.
    07-17-13 05:30 PM
  7. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    What you describe isn't a lie at all. "Truth" is an ethical construct, not a factual one.

    If you say something in good faith that is ultimately proven wrong, you are inaccurate, but not dishonest.

    It's only a "lie" if you tell people the sky is red when you already know it isn't.

    From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10
    BlackBerry PlayBook Getting No More Significant Updates, Confirms Alec Saunders-george-costanza-lying-motivational-quote.jpg
    Tim1131 and dannykavs like this.
    07-17-13 05:42 PM
  8. Gooseberry Falls's Avatar
    What you describe isn't a lie at all. "Truth" is an ethical construct, not a factual one.

    If you say something in good faith that is ultimately proven wrong, you are inaccurate, but not dishonest.

    It's only a "lie" if you tell people the sky is red when you already know it isn't.

    From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10
    Yes, you have hit the nail on the head. However, "ethics" is a very grey area and not defined. Everyone is instilled with different morals and ethics and it is different for everyone. Your definition of lie involves a connotation of dishonesty. Mine is based more on inaccuracy, even if not dishonest. So you will be arguing forever with people if you try to give a textbook definition. Just sayin. If I was TH and asked to take a lie detector test, I would def not pass.
    Last edited by Gooseberry Falls; 07-17-13 at 06:10 PM.
    07-17-13 05:58 PM
  9. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    My guess is that the OS isn't quite as modular as we hoped. It's likely that various components are reliant on others, and it would require a larger development effort to decouple the keyboard, the browser, etc. and they made a financial decision that it wasn't worth the effort. They are a struggling company and the PB was a distraction, and I think any effort was only half-hearted because of the focus on new phones.

    Disappointed that they aren't going to throw us a bone of some sort (I'm not expecting they'll hook us up with anything to make good on this). I still enjoy my PB, but it just feels like it is being killed before its time.
    07-17-13 06:10 PM
  10. tjseaman's Avatar
    Personally for me I could care less. I've moved on since February when I got my Z10. Gave the PlayBook to my 10 yr old daughter.

    My Z10 is the BlackBerry favourite and even before final word the PlayBook wasn't getting BB10, I moved on. Don't need a tablet now. Got my Z10 and laptop and thinking about getting the A10.

    Posted via Z10 and CB10 on Rogers
    07-17-13 06:37 PM
  11. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    What you describe isn't a lie at all. "Truth" is an ethical construct, not a factual one.

    If you say something in good faith that is ultimately proven wrong, you are inaccurate, but not dishonest.

    It's only a "lie" if you tell people the sky is red when you already know it isn't.

    From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10
    hmmmmm splitting hair are we? Coming from a guy with no......I kid! i kid!!
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    07-17-13 06:41 PM
  12. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Yes, you have hit the nail on the head. However, "ethics" is a very grey area and not defined. Everyone is instilled with different morals and ethics and it is different for everyone. Your definition of lie involves a connotation of dishonesty. Mine is based more on inaccuracy, even if not dishonest. So you will be arguing forever with people if you try to give a textbook definition. Just sayin. If I was TH and asked to take a lie detector test, I would def not pass.
    Everything you've ever expressed in your life has been perfectly accurate? You've never been wrong about anything? It happens. The only person who never makes a mistake is the person who never actually does anything.

    A lie is a deliberate attempt to deceive. You know something to be true, but say that it isn't. Now, you can accuse Heins of lying, on the assumption that he continued to commit to the PB update even after the decision been made to cancel it internally. And that's totally possible. Personally, I don't believe it, just because Heins has actually done a pretty good job of being honest and transparent since taking over as CEO.

    I think that sometime in April was when the decision was actually made. And I say "April" because one of the BB community managers had been reaffirming the commitment in BB's official support forum until then. After the decision was made, they just shut up about the PlayBook completely until the Q1 Earnings Call.

    If you want to get really picky, you might say that BB's claim that their tablet strategy "hadn't changed" through May and June might have been a little disingenuous, but it falls well within the realm of corporate "message management".
    neefer likes this.
    07-17-13 07:09 PM
  13. FF22's Avatar
    How can iOS7 run on 512 MB and the "super efficient" BB10 can't do it on double that? I call them on the technical limitations.

    My friend at RIM has BB10 running on his PlayBook "quite well".
    The issue is we need someone to leak something that shows it was quite possible to run bb10 on the pb. I believe that they did not give it appropriate attention. If RIM could not walk and chew gum (z/q10 and pb) at the same time, they are incompetent. I don't know what his salary was but I would guess that half of it could have paid for the development to go forward if he really intended to keep his promise. Lie? Okay, if you folks don't like lie he broke his promise and I've seen no evidence other than his statement that it would not work well. And I take his word on that for what his promise was worth - NOT AT ALL.

    And it has already been shown that in Germany his promise could be relied on and could form the basis of a consumer return. He was the CEO, not one of those Tweeters who said it was coming.
    07-17-13 07:28 PM
  14. FF22's Avatar
    I do not care about fruit pie analogies and one lousy customer being screwed out of pie.

    We are talking tens of thousands who were screwed and maybe hundreds of thousands. He promised. He reneged on his promise. As I said above, other than his questionable word on how well bb10 worked or did not work on the pb, we have nothing. We got a promise and ultimately got BUPKIS.
    07-17-13 07:35 PM
  15. msps's Avatar
    Most apologist try not to remember
    that even if according to their logic Thorsten may not have lied in January
    as he 'believed BB10 would come for PB' back then it does not explain his later statements.

    The point is,
    he kept saying that nothing changedregarding the update even in JUNE 2013

    Show me the money, show me the money!
    Where is it?
    Show me the BB10 version for PB they had in works in JUNE 2013 and earlier months.
    Provide that versions of BB10 to developers to judge its quality.

    They tried their best, thay had teams working on it for months.
    Where is it?

    Or maybe, just maybe it doesn't exist as the decision to scrap PB update was made months earlier?
    February? April? May?


    Hundreds BB10.1 and 10.2 leaks for Z10 in last months
    Where are BB10 for PB versions?
    Last edited by msps; 07-18-13 at 02:48 AM.
    07-17-13 07:47 PM
  16. neefer's Avatar
    I agree with the folks above who said we need a BB10 on the PB leak. Send that puppy over to Kevin and have him make a side-by-side "review" video with the current PB, and show us all how crappy or not crappy the BB10 leak or isn't. That should pretty much settle the debate -- and then we can each decide for ourselves if we want to install the leak, or keep the current version. (And then finally move on to arguing debating discussing topics other than whose PB is going to gather more dust because it doesn't have a full-fledged BB10 on it.)

    Hell, for that matter, send Kevin to BB HQ and film it running there. If they're EOL'ing the thing, not much to be NDA'd, so why not just produce the "proof"?
    FF22, dphjeff and dannykavs like this.
    07-17-13 08:01 PM
  17. axllebeer's Avatar
    I agree with the folks above who said we need a BB10 on the PB leak. Send that puppy over to Kevin and have him make a side-by-side "review" video with the current PB, and show us all how crappy or not crappy the BB10 leak or isn't. That should pretty much settle the debate -- and then we can each decide for ourselves if we want to install the leak, or keep the current version. (And then finally move on to arguing debating discussing topics other than whose PB is going to gather more dust because it doesn't have a full-fledged BB10 on it.)

    Hell, for that matter, send Kevin to BB HQ and film it running there. If they're EOL'ing the thing, not much to be NDA'd, so why not just produce the "proof"?
    Agreed, let's do this, I like this idea. Yep we have a winning solution. Make it so!
    FF22 likes this.
    07-17-13 08:13 PM
  18. ssbtech's Avatar
    Had I known how quickly the PlayBook was going to be abandoned, I wouldn't have spent $500 on a 16GB model.

    Pretty disgusting how poorly BlackBerry has handled this. I can understand BB10 not working on it, but other updates should have been made to the tablet to make it a finished product.
    FF22, dphjeff, flyingsolid and 2 others like this.
    07-17-13 08:20 PM
  19. app_Developer's Avatar
    How can iOS7 run on 512 MB and the "super efficient" BB10 can't do it on double that? I call them on the technical limitations. .
    One big reason is that when apps go the background in iOS, they generally can give back a lot of RAM. All the backing stores, for example, can be dropped since apps can't draw while in the background. Processes can be stopped and then cleanly restored as needed to handle low memory conditions.Efficient use of RAM was a major design goal, as was battery usage, GPU throughput for the foreground app, etc.

    When your friend saw BB10 running on PB, how many apps were running at once? Were apps being killed?
    neefer likes this.
    07-17-13 08:28 PM
  20. arvind1983's Avatar
    few free apps and maybe a $50 coupon off a BB10 device. Just sayin.....
    Thanks but no thanks. How about we paying $50 more give us BB10, or upgrade the RAM. Do you know PB was killed to make way to A10? who would want to by the over priced A10 if they can buy an awesome PB with BB10?
    07-17-13 08:59 PM
  21. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Most apologist try not to remember
    that even if according to their logic Thorsten may not have lied in January
    as he 'believed BB10 would come for PB' back then it does not explain his later statements.

    The point is,
    he kept saying that nothing changedregarding the update even in JULY 2013

    Show me the money, show me the money!
    Where is it?
    Show me the BB10 version for PB they had in works in JULY 2013 and earlier months.
    Provide that versions of BB10 to developers to judge its quality.

    They tried their best, thay had teams working on it for months.
    Where is it?

    Or maybe, just maybe it doesn't exist as the decision to scrap PB update was made months earlier?
    February? April? May?


    Hundreds BB10.1 and 10.2 leaks for Z10 in last months
    Where are BB10 for PB versions?
    What's this about "July"? The announcement was made as part of the quarterly earnings call on June 28th.

    And here's what the corporate message was: "At the present time we have no changes to announce in our tablet strategy". I will agree, this is corporate double-speak, but hardly out of the ordinary. If the decision was made in April (as I suspect), I'm not sure why they left the actual announcement so long. It could be they were afraid that disgruntled users might disrupt BlackBerry World in May, right when the company wanted to project the most positive face they could to the world. This strategy obviously backfired, since many were concerned about the PlayBook's lack of mention at that conference.

    I get that people are rightfully disappointed at the cancellation of this update. And it absolutely undermines the credibility of a company when it has to go back on a commitment it's made. Possibly BlackBerry's biggest struggle in trying to turn its fortunes around is convincing investors and customers that they are executing effectively. Generally, they have been (2011 was a year when they didn't fulfill ANY commitments properly), but this doesn't help.
    07-17-13 09:03 PM
  22. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    Most apologist try not to remember
    that even if according to their logic Thorsten may not have lied in January
    as he 'believed BB10 would come for PB' back then it does not explain his later statements.

    The point is,
    he kept saying that nothing changedregarding the update even in JULY 2013

    Show me the money, show me the money!
    Where is it?
    Show me the BB10 version for PB they had in works in JULY 2013 and earlier months.
    Provide that versions of BB10 to developers to judge its quality.

    They tried their best, thay had teams working on it for months.
    Where is it?

    Or maybe, just maybe it doesn't exist as the decision to scrap PB update was made months earlier?
    February? April? May?


    Hundreds BB10.1 and 10.2 leaks for Z10 in last months
    Where are BB10 for PB versions?
    Thats how cracked smoking politician get elected. People only want to believe what they want to believe, they want to hear what they want to hear. Ohhhhh yum...he promise gravy! He promise gravy! Lap it up boys......choo choo gravy train is rounding the corner ...toot ....toot.....
    07-17-13 09:12 PM
  23. hreiner1's Avatar
    the only way to get even with BB ................
    no more BB phones and other devices 4ever

    BB will not survive as a freestanding company for more than 3 years, maybe less than that
    will be bought by a chinese / korean company

    so what ever tablet you are buying now, it will be an IPad or an Android
    plus windows 8 for business use, as it runs MS office software
    I am shopping for a MS Surface pro, it will replace my Laptop when traveling

    so the battle is over
    07-17-13 09:17 PM
  24. Nickstarmaster's Avatar
    They made promises for people buy the last PlayBook unitys like crazy.
    Lets see, if you had a store, and you knew that your store was going to be closed in a near future, would you try to sell all your products or let they rot in the trash?
    Obviously sell.
    BlackBerry made these promises just for that, for stock-cleaning and getting money from that, they know that consumers can't do anyting with they, and if a consumer ask for lawsuit, they will pay a bunch of money + a new phone and done, problem solved.
    BlackBerry is smart, users are dumb to keep complaining about this piece of black cow-sht-made-brick.
    Instead of holding this brick, dump it and buy another device, i recommend Apple, there they update 2 years old devices.
    arvind1983 likes this.
    07-17-13 09:18 PM
  25. bodden96's Avatar
    DAMN BLACKBERRY!! SHOW ME LOVE
    07-17-13 09:20 PM
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