[Hirazi Blue]

No, you're right, my post didn't come out right. What I did however wanted to stress was the "No matter how many 'facts' you throw at the discussion" part. Even if anyone had a "full deck" of facts to play with, in the end the only thing coming out of him/her would still be opinions, a specific POV.
Sorry for the slightly aggressive tone in my previous post. I hope this clears it up a little...

[duty14]

Discussions and debates are backed up by facts and proof to get your point or opinion made.. And you have facts shows you are more right than the other guy with only his opinion witch is subjective and can be or can't be wright...
But when the other guy throws facts he doesn't know if they are true or not and its normal to throw facts that show he is wrong and he should reconsider his opinion with his previous facts and maybe would open his eyes and see in that case cause what BB did was far from what a serious company does and it doesn't deserve unpacked and very bad subjecexcuses after this treatment with their customers

[Hirazi Blue]

cause what BB did was far from what a serious company does

Personally I would say "what a nice, customer-friendly company does", which obviously is something completely different. But that's probably nit-picking.

[FF22]

How many do you want?

7 Inch Mini Tv Mobile Tv Portable Tv Hdmi Input Dvb-t - Buy Portable Tv Hdmi Input,Mini Dvb-t Tv,7inch Mobile Tv Product on Alibaba.com

I'll initially take two and buy more as they die! I like the manufacturer: OEM. But they do not run on battery power.

[FF22]

No apps
No software updates

These TVs suck

Ah, but NO BROKEN PROMISES. Probably just a broken TV.

[FF22]

Wow, that's quite a rant (and I actually do enjoy a good rant once in a while). But basically what you're saying is, he is not permitted to have an opinion and you obviously are? No matter how many "facts" you throw at the discussion, it's all about opinions in the end.
Or am I missing something?

Well, yes, you are missing................ (wait for it...............)

FACTS!

Rim/BB/BBRY/QNX has provided an informal announcement that THOR did not find performance acceptable. It was never openly demonstrated. The only FACT is it is NOT coming. Now that the Z10 is being reduced in price with the Q10 behind, there's not much for them to lose - so show us the poor performance. BB10 will not suffer any more because of it. I WANT THE SUCKY DEVICE because he's left the current PB not far short of sucky!

[duty14]

If its a serious company and respects itself than obviously it is a customer-friendly because customers buy their products or services and keep the company going and maybe make a profit and pay all the employees of that company....

[DigitalMadness]

Sometimes I wonder if it is the fanboyism combined with the arrogance of RIM which got the company to where it is today. Why improve or innovate when the BlackBerry can do no wrong


Posted from my ??????

[Thunderbuck]

Well, yes, you are missing................ (wait for it...............)

FACTS!

Rim/BB/BBRY/QNX has provided an informal announcement that THOR did not find performance acceptable. It was never openly demonstrated. The only FACT is it is NOT coming. Now that the Z10 is being reduced in price with the Q10 behind, there's not much for them to lose - so show us the poor performance. BB10 will not suffer any more because of it. I WANT THE SUCKY DEVICE because he's left the current PB not far short of sucky!

I will raise the point (yet again) that there were very likely BUSINESS ISSUES that were as difficult (or more) to resolve than the technical ones.

Let me speculate on a couple of them: Zinio was kind of a big deal when it finally launched on the Playbook, but there is no BB10 version. Why? It was replaced by BlackBerry Newsstand for some reason, and based on a different provider's infrastructure. Zinio has likely decided that BB10 isn't worth their while to support. So, what does a user do if he has a big Zinio library, but wants to migrate to BB10 on his Playbook? If there's no app, that suddenly becomes a problem.

There's also the issue of Video Store purchases; PlayBook purchases don't show up in the user history on BB World on a Z10, so even though it's the same partner (Rovi), it looks like it might be two different agreements. Might users who'd purchased content on the PlayBook have been required to RE-PURCHASE it if they upgraded to BB10? I could see that getting ugly in a hurry.

There are likely hundreds of other examples. Suffice to say, it wasn't just technical issues that got in the way here.

[duty14]

Yeah why try to make competitive products and keep up with the competition when you have fanboys that buy your products indifferent how they are or how they will use them....?

[bambinoitaliano]

Sorry, I totally forgotten about plan F. Where the users, customers totally get effed over by BB. Of course, some people just enjoy being effed by a corporation more than others. Definitely not my kink.

[duty14]

I will raise the point (yet again) that there were very likely BUSINESS ISSUES that were as difficult (or more) to resolve than the technical ones.

Let me speculate on a couple of them: Zinio was kind of a big deal when it finally launched on the Playbook, but there is no BB10 version. Why? It was replaced by BlackBerry Newsstand for some reason, and based on a different provider's infrastructure. Zinio has likely decided that BB10 isn't worth their while to support. So, what does a user do if he has a big Zinio library, but wants to migrate to BB10 on his Playbook? If there's no app, that suddenly becomes a problem.

There's also the issue of Video Store purchases; PlayBook purchases don't show up in the user history on BB World on a Z10, so even though it's the same partner (Rovi), it looks like it might be two different agreements. Might users who'd purchased content on the PlayBook have been required to RE-PURCHASE it if they upgraded to BB10? I could see that getting ugly in a hurry.

There are likely hundreds of other examples. Suffice to say, it wasn't just technical issues that got in the way here.

Yea another excuse.. Everybody can find excuses.. I won't get outside the house cause maybe a car will hit me.. It might sound exaggerated this comparation but if you translate it its kind the same thing..
Fanboys exist and improvise weird excuses..They are looking for the needle in the haystack.. And there is no needle, at least with what you are trying....

IOS and Android change the system also, get updates, change their OS ( Android Froyo, Gingerbread,Honeycomb, ICS, JellyBean ; IOS 1-2-3-4-5-6) and still have the same apps indifferent of their phones or tablets and different dimensions ( 3",3,5",4,5",5",5,5" phones; 7",8",9,8" 10,1" tablets). So if an app is buyed or downloaded from one format of phone or tablet but from the same source it will be supported on all their platforms and products. The only limit is the limit of the older OS but those are very few limits and most of the apps work on all variations of products. The 3rd party devs or companies have a contract with Android or IOS and its in their interest to bring their apps to as many Apple or Android products they can so they will sell as much possible. So if Zinio wasn't beeg brought to BB10 maybe they had some contract issues with BB or pure and simple they thought it wasn't worth the effort because they were not making profit in the past at BB... Who knows.. But that's not an excuse for BB not fulfilling their promises after more than 2 years and now not even supporting with necessary updates..

So no.. Your excuse is not viable... Better search for another needle... But my guess is that you won't find one because it doesn't exist.. Even BB don't do excuses and with the RAM bs they think we are stupid and that shows how they think of their customers, loyal customers and even you blinded fanboys ...

[duty14]

Even if you have apps on PlayBook OS and these apps don't exist at BB10, your apps will become useless as the Playbook because they won't be supported in the future and updated.. If 3rd party apps have contract with BB they will not continue to support their old apps because even BB has forgotten they have sold PlayBooks tablets to people...
So everything that exist now for the Playbook will remain as it is now or will become inefficient and non useful, dead apps.

So if you payed money and waited for their promises and know you find out that you waited for nothing and payed for a future non useful product and you still find excuses for them...? They even not bothered to find a plausible excuse or make it up to their loyal fans in another way... More than that.... They won't even do the necessary updates that had to be implemented from the release in the first place... There are so many negatives here that it's unimaginable and unforgivable...

[Barracuda7772]

I hope that BBM cross platform is flop just like the promised playbook update.You want BBM on your phone buy a blackberry.

so your telling me the best instant messaging/voice/video/screen sharing client will flop.......did I mention its free ?
I understand all the features are not there upon launch but they will follow

[duty14]

so your telling me the best instant messaging/voice/video/screen sharing client will flop.......did I mention its free ?
I understand all the features are not there upon launch but they will follow

Are you sure? At the moment BB are not so good with promises..

[Chaplain_Clancy]

Yea another excuse.. Everybody can find excuses.. I won't get outside the house cause maybe a car will hit me.. It might sound exaggerated this comparation but if you translate it its kind the same thing..
Fanboys exist and improvise weird excuses..They are looking for the needle in the haystack.. And there is no needle, at least with what you are trying....

At the same time what you're saying to them is that THEY shouldn't go outside of the house because they might get hit by a car. In other words, they should only experience the day if it's going to be completely without incident. Sorry, but a really poor analogy since it does everyone out of objective sense.

[FF22]

I will raise the point (yet again) that there were very likely BUSINESS ISSUES that were as difficult (or more) to resolve than the technical ones.

Let me speculate on a couple of them: Zinio was kind of a big deal when it finally launched on the Playbook, but there is no BB10 version. Why? It was replaced by BlackBerry Newsstand for some reason, and based on a different provider's infrastructure. Zinio has likely decided that BB10 isn't worth their while to support. So, what does a user do if he has a big Zinio library, but wants to migrate to BB10 on his Playbook? If there's no app, that suddenly becomes a problem.

There's also the issue of Video Store purchases; PlayBook purchases don't show up in the user history on BB World on a Z10, so even though it's the same partner (Rovi), it looks like it might be two different agreements. Might users who'd purchased content on the PlayBook have been required to RE-PURCHASE it if they upgraded to BB10? I could see that getting ugly in a hurry.

There are likely hundreds of other examples. Suffice to say, it wasn't just technical issues that got in the way here.

I think it is unnecessary to help them come up with excuses. I'm sure that they have another 100 or so straw men on the sidelines just waiting. But if losing access to already purchased apps was a serious problem, then they would not have move off OS7. Everyone lost everything they ever purchased under your scenario.

Next excuse for the inexcusable.

[duty14]

I was trying to make a point you can find excuses for everything but forced excuses are not viable and plausible...

[EAPENJJ]

You have to get an adapter to convert the micro usb to HDMI - if you really want this feature. I used the HDMI on my BBerry probably a handful of times. There really is no need for this.

Google Nexus 7 (2013) - CNET Reviews

[Thunderbuck]

I think it is unnecessary to help them come up with excuses. I'm sure that they have another 100 or so straw men on the sidelines just waiting. But if losing access to already purchased apps was a serious problem, then they would not have move off OS7. Everyone lost everything they ever purchased under your scenario.

Next excuse for the inexcusable.

The difference is that nobody ran the risk of upgrading an OS7 device and finding apps or features that suddenly didn?t work.

I can tell you, having worked on IT projects, that the business issues are frequently harder to resolve than the technical ones.

And it doesn't matter if this is "excusable" or not. If this has irreparably spoiled your trust in BB, for heaven's sake don't use their products. Simple as that.

From the awesome PHYSICAL keyboard of my Q10

[blueberrymerry]

I wonder what business issues those were, especially as the PB had few apps to begin with. Having no Zinio cannot be a big reason when other big fish like Skype were coming to BB10.

I chalk it down to lack of resources. BBRY spent so much time and effort trying to finish BB10 that there weren't enough people left over to work on BB10 for PB. Especially when BB10 itself isn't finished!

In the end, I think they just gave up. That doesn't excuse the constant flip-flopping, years of broken promises and poor PR though. Too many things to do, not enough hands, hostile market reaction... I'd hate to be Heins right now. Then again, with a multimillion dollar bonus guaranteed even if the company burns to the ground, maybe it's not so bad to be Heins

[Hirazi Blue]

Well, yes, you are missing................ (wait for it...............)

FACTS!

I don't need any facts. I'm a fanboy...
But seriously: this whole fanboy-factboy (to coin a phrase) debate has a preciously small amount of indisputable fact to go around on both sides. Most of it is still opinion merely presented as fact or opinion vaguely based on fact IMHO...

[uncle_numpty]

so your telling me the best instant messaging/voice/video/screen sharing client will flop.......did I mention its free ?
I understand all the features are not there upon launch but they will follow

BBRY BBM Coming to a device near you you........ Sometime Out October November
( oh unless you own a BBRY Playbook that is )

There is no way BBM will be free on android or ios - if it's free, how can BBRY make any money out of it - after all with the increase in userbase that this will bring, BBRY will have to invest heavilly in new server infrastucture and that cash will have to come from somewhere.

So if they don't charge for BBM or some of it's 'premium' services then they will have to have paid advertising within BBM.

Be prepared for further cost cutting and layoffs at BBRY as the TH's gang of five further attempt to make BBRY and it's dwindling cash pot look profitable before the sale of certain parts of the BBRY operation.

[costas1966]

Yes but creating a lot of negative sentiment with some of your most loyal user base will cause to stop being advocates for the company, which in turn will likely hurt sales, and hurt the share holders. Happy customers likely means more sales which will translate into a higher stock price.

Posted via CB10

I hear you, but the negative sentiment is being created because people expected BB10 to come to the PB, no matter what. That's not how it works in business. I see the statements that TH made about it as optomistic and sincere, but I am happy that I didn't get a half-baked OS upgrade I would curse and couldn't downgrade from. So, from a business perspective, it was the right decision.

As a consumer, though...I am disappointed...but not stupid enough or ignorant enough to call the company a bunch of liars, because that wasn't the case. Anyone who thinks so, is an i.d.i.o.t.

[Hirazi Blue]

Again with the n.a.m.e.-.c.a.l.l.i.n.g...